New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production

Subject: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:39 AM

Having just about got my head around the initial mamoth task of collecting lots and lots of songs and tunes, I want to start this new thread for pre-production issues and info.
This may concern checking details and credits, pulling in liner notes for each item (40 words or so ) lyrics, ......oh yes and perhaps I'll try and get round to doing a song list......eventually.

So any queries, bang them in here please, or PM me

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:57 AM

Would you like me to set up a spreadsheet for entering the following info:

Song Title
Performed by
Performer Mudcat Name
Lyrics written by
Melody composed by
Song arrangement by
Notes of interest (background info on song, performer, etc.)
Lyrics
Link to song recording

Then a mailmerge should populate everything correctly into corresponding fields on word document, which can be used to create final published document.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: stallion
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 06:06 AM

Ok which song of ours did you use in the end?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 07:00 AM

Peter: Johnny Come Down To Hilo, and Ratcliffe Highway, subject to confirmation tho! Still need lyrics for J C D T H please.

I guess the only way I can avoid answering 100 questions like this is to publish the song list!!!! (Sigh)

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 07:53 AM

Hi,

Well, you could mail merge confirmation messages to each contributor.


I've heard in the news that it just has been found
There's one species of fish that in fact does make sound
If you dangle CD-s in the water for bait
You will catch Mudcat music from all the world round

Bye
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:13 AM

Here's a PROVISIONAL song list in no particular order. Very much subject to modification without any prior warning!!!!!

Quite happy to review any issues.

  Acorn4                         Daddy dont become a morris dancer           
  Bounty Hound-                Bonny Ship the Diamond           
  Olddude                 Flowers on the moon           
  George Papavgeris         Circles in the air           
  Good Soldier Schweik         Bunclody           
  Seamus Kennedy                 My father was a miner           
  Charley Noble                Mobile Bay            
  David Coffin                Song for Barry Finn           
  Waddon Pete                Chickens in the garden           
  Hissyfit -                Northern Tide           
  Skarpi                        Mix Modir min i kvi kvi            
  Nutty                         The Dragon Lies Dead           
  Marylnio                Leaving High Plain           
  Noreen                         Bheir mi ó           
  Rattlebag                Tyburn Sisters           
  Sussex Carole                Mary Baker           
  Animaterra                Wade in the water           
  will fly                 The Warksburn Waltz           
  Jonh MacKenzie                 Halcyon Days           
  Allison & Hunt            Mr Fezzywigs Ball & Dancng Bear           
  Bobert                        Buttermilk Blues           
  Maeve                        ?           
  LonesomeEJ                Rosealie           
  Bob Knight                Tramps and Hawkers           
  Jonh MacKenzie                 Gresford Disaster           
  Severed head                Limbo           
  r.padget                Edward           
  Cool Beans                16 Monkeys           
  michaelR                Dreams and High Hopes           
  The Doctor                 Heres to the last to die           
  jeffp                        Miss You           
  Gibb Sahib                Walk Along You Sally Brown           
  linda kelly Hazel richings         Sweet Mineva           
  My guru always said         The Rain Is Falling           
  Mrs Pavane                Ar Lan y Mor           
  Pavane                        Roxburghe Castle           
  Shany Annas                Bully in the Ally           
  Mary Humphreys & Anahata        Proud Pedlar           
  Virginia tam                Past Caring           
  will fly                 Water of the Tyne
  Tootler                 Playford Tunes           
  Peace                        Just seem to keep on loving you           
  Kendal                        ?           
  Katlaughing/Morgan        ?           
  George Papavgeris         Esperanza Waits Above           
  Henryclem                 Needle and Thread           
  Stuart Hendrickson        LongCooksTown           
  Crane Driver                Harriet Lane           
  Mgmyer                         The Farm Servant           
  Guy Wolff                Dreadnaught           
  John Hills                The A320 Disaster           
  The Doctor                 The Black Cook           
  The Barden of England        Why?           
  Joe Offer                Long Long Ago           
  Janie                        I've got oil in my vessel           
  virginia tam                The Minstral           
  Mary Humphreys & Anahata        Panownygwanwyn           
  Therea Tooley                Willy Taylor           
  My guru always said          Where Ravens feed           
  Genie                        Drive you out of my mind           
  michaelR                The Thingama Jigs           
  2 Black Sheep & a Stallion        Ratcliffe Highway           
  will fly                 Mazurka d'Auvergne           
  Tootler                 Catherine Ogle-Childgrove           
  Mysha                        My Love Is like a Red Red Rose           
  Zen                        ?           
  Seamus Kennedy                 The sailors alphabet           
  Mgmyer                         Spanish Lady           
  Good Soldier Schweik         Burlington fair           
  Henryclem                 Stand and Deliver           
  Olddude                        Wayfaring stranger           
  bradfordian                From The North            
  Barry Finn                Shores of the Callow           
  Stephen L Rich                Talking to the vines           
  mudinyereye                From my window           
  Noreen                  Siúl a rúin           
  My guru always said         When fishes fly           
  Suibhne O'Piobaireachd        Innocent Hare           
  Animaterra                Maple Sweet           
  bbc                        My dearest dear           
  hissyfit linda kelly Hazel richings         3 Drunken Maidens           
  Shoregrass                Battle of Ossippee           
  will fly                 Lindy           
  Anahata & Mary humphreys        Valliant-alexander           
  Tootler                        Westmoreland           
  2 Black Sheep & a Stallion         Johnny ComeDownTo Hilo           
  singing referee                Coffee song           
  Genie                        ?           
  Amos                        Bring Down The Walls           
  Three Wide MenClontarf83        Hills of Afganistan           
  Steve Robinson                Road to Ruin           
  JHW                        The Snows They Melt The Sonest           
  Suffet                        The October Waltz           
  Alanabit                Aint Got The Blues           
  Crane Driver                Let Me Breathe           
  Mark Clark                Shady Grove           
  MAX                        Monkeys Wedding           
  ClaireBear                Telling the bees           
  Rich-joy                Agent Orange           
  Open Mike                Give Me Roses            
  Jacqui C                Wiscasset           
  Lynne & Nick Blair        John Riley           
  Dan Schatz                The Promise of the Sowing           
  JohnB                        Parting Glass           
  Leadfingers                Water and Beer           
  The Just Desserts        Chendie's Meatloaf Blues           
  Tootler                 Cleveland Hills           
  John P                         Turkish Tune           
  Yorkshire Yankee        Email He male           
  Bonnie Shaljean                ?         
  

Spherical objects! I'm sure there must be an EASY way to columise text. Doh!
Well, that's let the cat out of the bag!
No more surprises left :~(

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:36 AM

Please note that where you have

LonesomeEJ    Rosealie   

the Youtube post of the song spells the name      Rosalie

FYI

BTW, you have done one heckuva job with this, bradfordian. Many many thanks.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:40 AM

PS If you could use help proofreading the titles, I'd be happy to lend a hand. Just went through something similar on a much smaller scale, and the stuff I missed the first ten times 'round was lots. It helped to have extra eyes point out the errors my own had become accustomed to.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: maeve
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:43 AM

"Well, that's let the cat out of the bag! No more surprises left :~(
bradfordian "
******************
One surprise would be me managing to record. Still trying. Not sure anything I could offer would be worth much.

Excellent effort on the part of bradfordian and all contributors. I'm sure the end result as it stands will be wonderful.

Maeve

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:04 AM

Bradfordian, I sent you an email with attachments on the 22nd. Did you get it? I'll resend it, if not, plus I hope to get the red-headed grandson's 15 second special for all aunties and uncles recorded today and sent on.

It included an original "That's Not My Colorado" and "Morgan's Mix" which I am not sure would fit, but left up to you to decide. I thought I was going to get Under Dakota's Cross, but ran out of breath and time. It might be preferable to TNMC. I have more breath now, so could still try it, today, if you'd like. If it's a quality issue, no problem. I understand.:-)

Please let me know if I need to resend the email.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:07 AM

I've just messaged all the folks beside whose names you have question marks and directed them to this thread with a message that said, "Please see this thread soonest" and I gave the thread/post (?) ID number.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:49 AM

Hi,

Oh dear, it would appear you were actually able to get sound out of my recording then (hopefully the sound of the second take). I tend to call it "Oh, my Love's like a Red Red Rose", to distinguish it from the more classical version. Though going by the first line, I actually sing "O, my Luve's like a Red Red Rose". Dilemmas, dilemmas.


But anyway, they might be:
Skarpi - "Móðir Mín í kví kví" - Didn't know that one; I should learn it sometime.
Allison & Hunt - Mr Fezzywigs Ball & Danc!I!ng Bear
The Doctor - Here!'!s to the last to die
Stuart Hendrickson - Long! !CooksTown - at least, that's what I see most often
2 Black Sheep & a Stallion - Johnny Come! !Down! !To Hilo
JHW - The Snows They Melt The So!o!nest
MAX - Monkey?'?s?'? Wedding - don't know, and might depend on the origin

Next proof reader.

Regarding neat columns: You probably can't, as Mudcat doesn't accept html tables.

Oh, and we probably need some consistency about English capitalisation, here. Are there any rules for that?

Bye,
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM

"Buttermilk Blues", by *Sidewalk Bob* (Bobert)...

Thanks,

B~

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Stewart
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 03:19 PM

Stuart Hendrickson       LongCooksTown   

Should be:
Stewart Hendrickson    Long Cookstown

What a great job!
Thanks, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:52 PM

I just put all the info (corrections included) into HTML table. But of course I am not permitted to make table on Mudcat.

If a mod wants the document, please PM me.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: kendall
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 07:49 PM

I see a question mark after my name. I am playing guitar behind Jacqui on her song Wiscasset Schooners.
She is also accompanied by our friend, Gordon Bok on harmony and the 12 string guitar.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 08:08 PM

Oops, my apologies. I just saw you did have my name and Morgan's listed, but with question marks, so still need to know re' email.

Thanks for a great job!!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:29 PM

And the author of "Wiscasset Schooners" is Lois Lyman.

Dan

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:13 PM

WHY am I the last to know about this project?? Is it because I'm usually behind in things, at least in the last year?

Oh well, I'll just have to buy a copy.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Janie
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:20 PM

That's my boy!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:01 AM

Poster is Rapparee

---

If there's anything I can do to help, let me know.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Janie
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:04 AM

All guests are ready to help. *grin*

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:03 PM

:-)

Barrie, I just sent you a stuffed nose version of Under Dakota's Cross. By no means do I expect you to use it if it doesn't measure up! Though it's been a long time since anyone on here has heard me sing, so maybe they won't notice.:-) I do wish I'd not lost my western Colorado accent, but there ya go...on my dad's tape it's "Dee koh tah" on mine it is "Duh koh tah." The vagaries of youthful relocation.:-)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:07 PM

Just one correction to a title of mine:

"Water of the Tyne" should be "The Waters of Tyne" - apart from that, OK.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,VaTam
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM

my corrections

VirginiaTam - Past Carin' (replace g with ')
VirginiaTam - The Minstrel (replace a with e)

Thanks so much for all the work you are putting into this.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

Suibhne O'Piobaireachd       Innocent Hare

Best make that:

Rapunzel and Sedayne : The Innocent Hare

The Gower Wassail is Rapunzel and Sedayne too!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM

The points raised thus far have been incorporated.

Thank you everyone, very useful.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:00 AM

I am looking for someone to take on management of the lyrics.
You would need to ultimately save as pdf. Some word processors can save as pdf, otherwise a DTP program would be desirable. Send me a PM if you would like to get involved.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JHW
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:54 AM

Should we send in lyrics and stuff or better wait to be asked for exactly what is required?

I wonder where the curiosity of title capitalisation originated? I would tend to put no capital on conjunctions and other 'little' words but its only an instinct. I looked for some guidance and unfortunately found this.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: breezy
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 10:19 AM

Bloody hell bradfordian , you'll get a news years decoration for this project.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 10:27 AM

The song I'm submitting for the seasonal CD is Raise Your Voices In The Song.

Thanks to the expertise, generosity, and high tech toys of Amos J, my sister and I were able to get a good quality recording of the song last Sunday. (Donation to Mudcat forthcoming from me on Amos's behalf.)


Also, MAG is submitting "Die Lorelei" for the non-seasonal CD.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 10:58 AM

Just for reference, e.g., as to formatting and as to the process of compiling liner notes, here are the PermaThreads for the liner notes I put together for the earlier set of Blue Plate Special Mudcat CDs:

Mudcat CD: Strawberry liner notes



OK, that's just a link to one of those PermaThreads. If you open that one, the links to the others are given at the top of the thread.







BTW, it took forever to get all the info on all the songs on those CDs (partly because some who submitted songs hardly ever check in here), and some info is still missing.
That's why I think it's a good idea to require EVERY SONG that is submitted for the new CDs to also have the standard credits, etc., submitted with it, and preferably all in the same format - e.g., as VirginiaTam suggested above.


E.g., for the Christmas song I submitted, the title & credits would look like this:

"RAISE YOUR VOICES IN THE SONG (OF PEACE ON EARTH)"
Music & lyrics by R J Pratt © 1993, 1999, 2011
Genie: guitar and vocals
Tammy: vocals
Song arrangement by (Not applicable, since it's an original song)


The other parts of the liner notes, e.g., the full lyrics, my background, website (if any), etc. might be in a different part of the liner notes, depending on how thick a liner notes booklet we want to include inside the CD case.   It might be preferable to make the longer details available online for people to print out as they choose. It can be difficult to cram full lyric sheets & background info on performers & songs into a jewel-case-size liner booklet, especially if the CD has about 20 songs on it.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Clontarf83
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 01:52 PM

Not sure what is required, but here is my best effort based on Genie's template above

"HILLS OF AFGHANISTAN"
Music & Lyrics L McAdams/ H Henderson 2010/1943
Three Wide Men: Fiddle, Guitar, Harmonica, Vocals

Please let me know if this is what you require

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 02:05 PM

I think it's also important to include the little "©" or "(c) symbol with the song title and credits, especially if it's your own composition or someone else's that's still copyright protected.
(That's where the "arranged by" can be important, if you're doing a trad. or other PD song that you have done your own arrangement for. You would own the copyright on the arrangement.)

In the case of songs written by others, e.g., Jackson Browne's "The Rebel Jesus," which Amos is doing for the seasonal CD, the copyright may or may be in the name of another person or publishing company.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 02:50 PM

"THAT'S NOT MY COLORADO"
Music and Lyrics Kat LaFrance © April 20, 1999
Vocal: Kat LaFrance

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Clontarf83
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 08:25 PM

ok--thanks Genie---but I can't figure out how to access the copyright symbol

so:
"HILLS OF AFGHANISTAN"
Music & Lyrics (c)L McAdams/ H Henderson 2010/1943
Three Wide Men: Fiddle, Guitar, Harmonica, Vocals

This song, which is a lyrical rewrite of the original(done with permission),is registered with SOCAN, so I won`t need the ``arranged by``

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Amos
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 09:04 PM

"Bring Down the Walls"
Arrangement, Music and Lyrics © 2008 Amos H. Jessup

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 10:05 PM

... and Amos on guitar & vocals too, I'm guessing?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:10 AM

I can't figure out how to access the copyright symbol

On a Mac: try alt (or "option") and "g"

From Wikipedia's "Copyright Symbol" entry , under the subhead "Character":
"Because the © symbol has long been unavailable on typewriters and ASCII-based computer systems, it has been common to approximate this symbol with the characters (c); however, this approximation has no standing in law.[3]

"The character is mapped in Unicode as U+00A9 ©​ copyright sign (HTML: © ©).[4] On Windows it may be entered by means of Alt codes, by holding the Alt key while typing the numbers 0169 on the numeric keypad. On Macintosh systems, it may be entered with ⌥G.

"Unicode also has U+24B8 Ⓒ​ circled latin capital letter c (HTML: Ⓒ) and U+24D2 ⓒ​ circled latin small letter c (HTML: ⓒ).[5] They are sometimes used as a substitute copyright symbol where the actual copyright symbol is not available in the font or in the character set, for example, in some Korean code pages."

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 02:36 AM

The Minstrel
Music & Lyrics Graham Pratt (c)1975
Vocal VirginiaTam

Past Carin'
Music Phyl Lobl (c)1968 set to poem by Henry Lawson (c)1899
Vocal VirginiaTam

I'll not post my proper name here as VirginiaTam gets enough abuse on other social networks.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 02:58 AM

I can't believe this.

The song I sent is what ya got. I wrote it and it's copyright to me under Canadian law. It's ok for Mudcat to use it. It's ok for me to use it too. There is no arrangement. That's it, that's all.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: stallion
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 03:17 AM

On Ratcliffe Highway - note "On" there is a song called Ratcliffe Highway, this is different, the words were adapted from an anonymouse poem published by C Fox-Smith and adapted by Charlie Ipcar, I edited it and set it to the tune of "With me swag all on me shoulder" by Banjo Patterson apparently adapted from a tune called "the Wexford Boys"

Johnny come Down to Hilo we got from the singing of Johnny Collins

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Cool Beans
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 10:22 AM

To make a copyright symbol © on a PC, Press CTRL and ALT and C simultaneously. For some reason, I can't do it on a Mudcat thread; I had to cut and paste the one above from my regular Microsoft Word program.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 11:11 AM

That won't work for me, CB. I have to be sure the NUM LOCK is engaged, then hold down ALT whilst hitting 0-1-6-9 in sequence.

I snagged Morgan - the Grandson, yesterday afternoon. He did four takes of his 3 line song. Barrie, I sent them to you this morning. Your choice. His original song, performed by himself, with an accompaniment of busy birds in the last take. SO I guess it would be:

Song for Mama
Music & Lyrics Morgan - (kat's grandson) © 2011
Vocal - Morgan the Grandson

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Cool Beans
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 11:38 AM

Kat,
   If you can do that, you can play any chord they throw at you, can'tcha?
CB

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM

Hi,

I may be wrong about this, but in my recollection the only reason for the (c) symbol was that the USA require it for copyright, so the Paris version of the Copyright Convention included that a work that had that symbol on it would be considered to have fulfilled any local requirements for copyright, as that way they could get the USA on board. But now the USA no longer has national requirements for copyright and now adheres to the international viewpoint that copyright follows from the creation of the work.

So, I doubt whether adding the (c) symbol, or just typing "(c)" would make any difference. Of course, all that would mean that I now have to find how not to claim copyright on the arrangement, in my case.

Bye
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 01:40 PM

CB...maybe!**bg**

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 03:53 PM

The liner notes themselves (and maybe the CD label tracklist) would have the official copyright symbol, © (which may or may not show up properly on Mudcat for you Windows users), but for those submitting the credits for songs on the CDs, it's really not important.
If you write "(C)" or "copyright" it's a small matter for whoever's doing the final editing to substitute the actual copyright symbol.
And if you composed your own song, the only reason you would really need to post the © symbol here would be if someone else (e.g., a publishing company) owned the copyright.

I just suggested that it be included here because the more standard the format for song title & credits submission, the less work it is for the ones putting together the label and liner notes.

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 04:51 PM

© © © © ©

From the Character Palette, letterlike Symbols section, on my iMac© --

©Michael©

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: treewind
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 04:58 PM

The only guaranteed reliable way to do a copyright symbol on Mudcat is to type in this 6 character sequence:

©

"©" (just checking)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999--
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 05:01 PM

©

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 05:02 PM

Dang. Thank you.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 08:57 PM

OK.

© ©


Can all of you tell which one I did with Command+g on my Mac & which one I did by some other method?

They both look the same to me.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 09:25 PM

How about moving this over to an html practice thread?:-)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 02:09 AM

Sounds good to me, Kat. We do seem to have a bit of thread drift going on.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 07:02 AM

I would like to divide up the work load into 6 so its not too onerous a task, ie dealing with just ONE CD at a time.

I have 3 takers so far; ,another 3? (only 22 songs)

Work involves correlating and cross checking song/performer details, collecting liner notes, and creating a file of lyrics. This for only 1 CD per Mud elve.
:~))

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 08:32 PM

Would you then be overseeing the final drafts of the liner notes & labels so that they're consistent in formatting, etc.?

Maybe the 6 elves can coordinate with each other in that regard, e.g., to check for spelling, punctuation, or other errors in lyrics, attributions, etc?

I sent you a PM about being an elf.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Clontarf83
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:03 PM

Thanks for the advice re the copyright symbol!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:39 PM

Barrie, you have outdone yourself and made a seven year old budding musician very happy! Morgan loved what you did and pronounced it "kewl!" Thanks so much!!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 09:29 PM

Bradfordian asked me to post here that I will be creating the graphics package for the new CD set (as well as the Seasonal CD). This means that once he and you assorted elves helping him have all the information coordinated, you'll need to send it to me (PM me for email address).

I can use Word, Excel or pdf files. Open Office does not work for me.

Looking forward to putting it all together!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 03:52 AM

michael, I'm not sure I follow.   By "graphics package," do you mean the entire labelling and liner notes or just graphic images (as opposed to text)?   I have no problem with sending you the liner notes, etc. I'm just wondering how that ties in with graphics.

One question is whether the liner notes or CD covers will include any photos of the contributors.

Anyway, glad you're on board!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 04:51 AM

Michael is doing everything you associate with the printed material in the CD case. Same as he did with the Blue Plate Specials.
So that's the track listing, a 4 page insert including liner notes and a pretty picture on the front. :~)
Hence Michael needs to be fed all the liner notes (from the 6 appointed mudelves)

You are on the list to be a mudelve Genie, and I'm looking for 3 more mudelves to help with prearation for the last 3 CDs. PM me if you would like to get involved.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:24 PM

Sorry, there is no room for individual contributors' photos. It will be a challenge just to fit liner notes for 20+ songs per CD!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:01 PM

With Michael doing the graphics, it'll be a beautiful and effectine sight.

I knew nothing about notes to go with the songs. Do you really need them?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:13 PM

On the topic of Notes to the Songs:

We don't REALLY need them, but people like to have a bit of background, such as "This traditional song comes from Yutland, and I learned it from the singing of an itinerant water buffalo" or "I wrote this one night while recovering from a dramamine overdose".

Or you could list the musicians, e.g. "Featuring myself on toilet-seat guitar and my buddy Fluff on the nose flute".

As much or as little you care to say about your song or tune is fine, as long as it's fewer than 40 words.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:20 PM

Thanks, Michael.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 03:26 PM

Oh, I forgot: The Liner Notes would also be the place to list your website or other contact information.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 03:31 PM

Revised for Morgan's contribution thanks to Barrie's mixing magic:

Mama's Song/Morgan Phoenix
Music & Lyrics by Morgan - (kat's grandson) © 2011
Vocals - Morgan the Grandson with local bird chorus
Music Mix - Morgan using tools at PBSKids.org

My info will be forthcoming.:-)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 07:56 PM

Michael, isn't it customary to list all the backup musicians in the song credits along with the lead singer/instrumentalist? At least when there are only a few of them?

E.g.

"THE MORNING AFTER"
(A. Drunkin Saylor)

Billy Budd: vocals
Captain Ahab: nose flute
Davy Jones: concertina


Perhaps if there's a whole band as backup, the credits might just list the band name, but I usually see the backup vocalists & instrumentalists credited if there are only a few of them.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 08:47 PM

Sure, it's the nice thing to do, but please remember that we're limited to about 40 words per song (otherwise the type gets too small and we'll get complaints).

So, folks, keep that in mind when you decide what you want to say about your contribution.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 02:12 AM

Darn, I already sent in my notes & I didn't think about website or if anyone was playing on it....

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 02:47 AM

MGAS, You can edit and re-send, nothing in Stone just yet.

Although I am initial contact point, there are (So far) three mud-elves cross checking details and chasing up missing info, notes, lyrics etc.

BTW JOB VACANCIS:

MUD-ELF ---3 Postions
Job description:
For ONE of the CDs, obtain and verify song/performer details, sleeve/liner nots, and lyrics (tunes are excused this part)

Salary: Tons and tons of job satisfaction credits
(No pension scheme, no sick pay, but lots and lots of friends)

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 02:58 AM

MichaelR, Bradfordian (et al.), I'm just suggesting that if there are 2 vocalists, 1 guitarist, and one fiddler (e.g.) on a track, it would be expected that all 4 would be listed in the credits. If you've got a whole choir or a band of 10, maybe the band should just have its own name. : )

I agree that often no "liner notes" are needed, aside from lyrics (if we're going to include them). But sometimes a song doesn't 'speak for itself' as to what the heck it's all about, and in those cases a FEW words of introduction can be helpful.


BTW, now that purty much all of usn's has got ax-cess to them thar internets, if putting the full lyrics to all (the 42 verses of "Barbry Allen or any other) songs is a problem, it might be advisable for the liner notes to refer people to a website (e.g., a PermaThread in Mudcat.org) to obtain those.   That's what we did with the Blue Plate Special Mudcat CDs.   I like having full lyrics in the liner notes inside a CD, but it's not always feasible.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 04:01 AM

We are having a 4 page insert.
A 16 page insert to accommodate songs with lots of verses would increase print costs. Lyrics will come as a pdf ON the disc. Hence liner notes being handy, but brief.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Lorelei
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 04:35 AM

Guru, you can still send corrections, updates, etc. to the elf who's doing the lyric sheets, tracklists, etc., for your CD -- and/or post them here.

Speaking as one of the elves, I can assure you that corrections & additional info will be needed for some of the tracks, at least on the "Sky" CD.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 07:56 AM

Many thanks Barrie & Lorelei! But how do I know which MudElf to send them to? I've previously been talking just with Barrie....

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Fidjit
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:14 AM

Hmmm. How come I missed out on this. I thought we were doing a Christmas CD.

Chas

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:25 AM

Wonderful!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 01:31 PM

That message from Lorelei" was actually from me.    Lorelei was using my computer to set up her Mudcat membership, as her home system will not be set up for at least a couple weeks, and I forgot she was logged in when I posted that.
Sorry for the confusion.

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 03:38 PM

Fidgit, there is a Christmas one, too, separate from these. PM Bradfordian for more info.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: ClaireBear
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 03:50 PM

I've just sent re-edited versions of my liner notes, now within the 40-word limit (though no promises as to length of each word!) to Barrie. But I had already submitted liner notes in January...so if anyone is already proofreading the older ones, put 'em aside and await new content from Bradfordian, please.

A couple of teensy wording changes to lyrics, too, to match what I sang on the day.

Cheers!
Claire

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 07:17 PM

Fidjit,
You are on the SEASONAL CD.

Looks like your computer may have selectively blanked out references to the NEW MUDCAT CDs threads which is running in parallel to the Seasonal CD (This is the third related thread).

Unfortunately, I can't organise keeping these threads above the horizon ALL the time. Sorry.

Bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 04:23 AM

Barrie, you're doing a fabulous job and I'm now less confused than I was *grin*

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 07:06 AM

MGAS, That's great!!!

Pity the other 99 of us --including ME are going the other way!!!!

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Pistachio
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 07:19 AM

For correction(seen on long list above)
- Sweet Minerva (add the 'r') thanks
- and Hissyfit, instead of Linda and Hazel!

Thanks for this huge amount of effort,
H.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 01:54 PM

Pistachio, I already corrected that typo (plus several others in the spreadsheet or lyric sheets for "Sky."    But it never hurts to give us elves a heads-up when you notice one.


Speaking of which, is it "Roxburgh" or "Roxburghe" (Castle)? It's spelled both ways in two different places in the materials (audio files, lyric sheets, etc.) that I was sent.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 03:44 PM

Well, I have updated my spreadsheet as fas as I can. I have PM'd and or emailed a few contributors to ask for missing information or clarification of info provided.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:01 PM

Even though they won't be listed on the CD that way, if you don't wish it, if you are a duo or group, it would help for the "elves" to know the Mudcat names of the group members. E.g., I believe in the case of "HissyFit," on my spreadsheet in the "Mudcat Names' column it just says "various."   I'd like to add both or all the Mudcat names to that column, as well as real names (in the column for that).
Again, you will be identified on the CD and in the liner notes in whatever way you want to be identified (Mudcat name, nickname, band name, real name, etc.) I'd just like to fill out the spreadsheet accurately and completely.

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Janie
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:10 PM

Don't know which elf has ended up with "me", but want to make sure you are aware there has been a switch in which song will appear on the cd's. I know Barrie has a lot on his plate. If you have not received the proper notes for "Little Sally Walker Down in New Orleans," send a pm so that I can send them directly to you.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 10:41 PM

Battle of Ossippee - Frank and Barbara Shaw
December Waltz - ShoreGrass Band with Frank and Barbara Shaw

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 05:38 AM

I have sent my comment on Past Carin to the Mudelf working on the CD with that song.

I don't know who has the CD with The Minstrel, but here is my comment for that song.

At first hearing Eileen Pratt singing it, I knew I must teach the song to my daughter. Almost two years after her funeral, I sang The Minstrel for the first time in public. With grateful thanks to Graham and Eileen for permission to record and to my Andie for lending me the courage to sing it.

I know it is a bit longer in words than suggested, but I really want to explain why it is so important to me and to credit the people who inspired me to sing it.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 07:37 AM

Only 2 of the 5 CDs (plus seasonal CD) are being deveoped at this moment in respect of verified details/liner note/lyrics. So 3 are still waiting to be worked on. The queue of mud-elves is rather short, so it's down to plan b which will take a little longer. Patience!


Just about all the songs & tunes are with me, but need normalising, chopping off silent bits at front and back, adding metadata etc.
Still swapping around between CDs a LITTLE bit (sorry Tam).

But do keep the info coming in, it's all helpful. It's good to post it here because I know where to look! :~)

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 08:05 AM

No problem Barrie. The work that is done can easily be swapped to another spreadsheet.

I am willing to work on another CD if needed. It would be easier though if the spreadsheets were named or numbered before sent to me, so I don't mix them up. I have no idea which CD I am working on at the moment. Have they been named?

Maybe a field/column added to each spreadsheet so we can indicate which CD the song is on. This to help facilitate switching songs on CDs and liner notes work. Will be useful too, if the songs are ever put up as MP3s online for download.

I have discovered that I can put lyrics into one cell of spreadsheet by using the shift enter to make line breaks.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: SussexCarole
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 05:54 PM

I've been working on the STONE CD. Barrie has put together great collection of Mudcatters songs and music on this CD. If your track is on this CD I will have carefully checked all the details including the lyrics (as on the recording) that I have been given and contacted you personally (Mudcat PM or e mail) for more info or to confirm that all I have is ok. I've really enjoyed listening to your music.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Lorelei
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 11:08 PM

The audio of "Die Lorelei," which MAG and Genie & I recorded for one of the CDs has been sent in, but I don't know which elf is doing the liner notes for it.
The transverse flute I'm playing is a very special one, named "Rowena."

I am really getting excited about hearing these new Mudcat CDs, as I loved the Blue Plate special CDs!

Lorelei

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 03:55 PM

I'm still missing the lyrics to "Greshford Disaster," which John MacKenzie submitted for the new CD "Sky." I've checked the forum and DT, with no luck, but in any case I need the lyrics as they are sung on John's track.

John, I can't find you here at mudcat by your name, so if you see this post, please PM me.
I think that the song is "Trad" but I don't know what country or region it comes from.

I have the lyrics/credits & other liner notes almost complete for "Sky" and hope to get the loose ends tied up very shortly.

It's sounding really good!

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 04:25 PM

Oh dear,

I finally realised I do have a song with no uncertainties about the rights, more or less in my repertoire. I should have done Catalunya Spirit. I wrote the lyrics, and I came up with a tune for it that I at least did not borrow consciously. I actually even know chords for it that don't clash too much with the tune, as that's how I created it. I wonder if it's possible to record a guitar with my state-of-the-art equipment of one headset microphone.

Seems I am gaining experience again: Knowledge acquired after you need it.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JHW
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 03:47 AM

Copy of my earlier post:

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JHW - PM
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:54 AM

Should we send in lyrics and stuff or better wait to be asked for exactly what is required?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:31 AM

Genie, it's THE GRESFORD DISASTER I imagine.

Gresford Colliery was near Wrexham in north-east Wales. You can read more about the events there at Wikipedia:

Gresford_disaster

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:32 AM

100!
:)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 11:01 AM

JWH: please send lyrics and song notes to bradfordian!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:41 PM

ATTENTION CD volunteers and contributors.

I am not ignoring your emails and pms. I am collecting your questions, comments, etc. and will work on all next week when I am off work.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:58 AM

Noreen, thanks for the link. I have the mp3 of John's song, but I we would like each contributor to provide the lyrics for the songs they submit, since transcribing them is time-consuming and often results in mondegreens or misspelled names, etc.   And the contributors need to write their own background notes about the songs.
Thanks to Maeve, I got in touch with John, and he did send me both.


JJHW: [["Should we send in lyrics and stuff or better wait to be asked for exactly what is required?"

Here's what we need from each contributor (or at least what we've been collecting):
1. Song title
2. Music by _________, Lyrics by _________, copyright year ________    (If "trad," it helps to know the country or region of origin, e.g, "Traditional Welsh)
3. Arranged by ________ (e.g., in the case of a trad. song

4.   Performer(s).   
E.g.,
___________: vocals
___________: guitar & vocals
___________: banjo
___________: flute

5. background note (if the song needs one).   40 words or fewer if possible

6. lyrics - as sung in this recording -- (punctuation helps!)

7. "Source" - e.g., if the audio file you submitted is a track from an existing CD, give the album name; if it's a live performance recording, what was the venue?

8. your website (or myspace page, YouTube channel, etc.) if you'd like that info included in the liner notes

9. your email address (and whether you'd like that also included in the digital liner notes booklet)

-------
Unless you know which "elf" is doing the liner notes for the CD your song is on, just send this info to Barrie (Bradfordian).   If you post it here instead, it will also get to the relevant elf.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:38 AM

Erm -- due to space limitations, the 40-word limit applies to Genie's points #4, 5 and 7 together. This may mean in some cases that you can list performers or tell us something about the song, but not both. I reserve the right to edit ruthlessly!

Keep in mind, the space available per CD is only two pages of the booklet -- less than 5x10 inches. And we need to keep the type large enough to be legible by our aging population. ;-)

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:59 AM

1) I don`t want my lyrics on the liner notes.

2) See number 1.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:10 PM

Hi 999,

1 The 40 words of the liner notes are just for numbers 4, 5 and 7 together: List of performers, background notes, and source of the recording. Lyrics are separate from the liner notes.

2 Are you saying you don't want your lyrics to be publicised along with your recording? If so: Do you have a reason for that that I would have to be aware of if I were to record a self-penned song? After all, they'd already have my own voice giving them the word; I might as well give them in writing (I sometimes think it's just folk song singers who read lyrics anyway).

Bye,
                                                                                                                                    Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:20 PM

Hi, Mysha. No reason other than I feel it doesn`t make much sense to me to post song lyrics on liner notes. Few people can read them and if anyone can`t understand a given word he or she can ask. Other people feel differently and for what are good reasons to them. Just a personal bias.

The lyrics I sing are clear. Just guitar and voice. Thanks for asking.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:05 PM

Bruce, the lyrics won't be printed in the CD booklet because of space restrictions. Lyrics will be on the disc itself in form of a pdf file.

Of course it is your prerogative to opt out.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Mysha
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:08 PM

Hi,

OK. Yes, I know; even on not-so-good live recordings you seem fairly easy to follow. Then again, in this case, people looking for lyrics will find whole pdf booklets on the CDs, if I got that right. That would make the written lyrics very clear and easy to read. Wouldn't you stand out as "missing lyrics" if yours weren't included?

Hm, I wonder if we could get around the 40 word limit by having a more complete version of the notes included in the lyrics booklet.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM

In the 4 page CD insert ONE page will probably be devoted to liner notes, one page to the front graphics. the two remaining pages may have info about Mudcat Cafe, some notes from invited persons (& maybe me) plus the team & technical/production details. Lyrics on the CD as a pdf IS the intention.

We will eventually have a thread for each CD (as we did with the former BLUE PLATE SPECIALS) once we finalise & publish the definitive list, and on that thread can be posted fuller song descriptions for folks to copy at their leisure. Or even eventually after a while trawl the threads and make A FULL SONG DESCRIPTIONS pdf
Just a suggestion.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:08 PM

OK, now I understand. I am not against the lyrics being available; I was against them taking room on liner notes. I stand--and now sit--corrected. Thank you michael, Mysha and bradfordian.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM

Michael & Barrie,
The information I was suggesting people send to us "elves" was what would be included on the CD Cover (e.g, the track list info), in the 4-page jewel-case booklet insert, AND in the PDF liner notes digital document.
It's understood that you guys (especially Michael) will be making the final decisions about what info has to be left out of the paper booklet, how much detail can be on the track list, and what can be included in the PDF file.

For instance, you may want the CD cover & booklet to just list your Mudcat name, but in the PDF file you may want the song you wrote & performed to be credited to your real name. Also, a few of the songs probably really could use some explanatory background notes, and the PDF liner notes would seem to be a place where those could be found, without taking up the space in the CD booklet.

But it's a good idea, if you're a contributor, to submit your OWN 40-word 'pare down' of 4. (Performers), 5. (background), and 7. (source), because if Michael has to do that editing, it may not be sliced and diced the way you would like.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:49 PM

Good post, Genie.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: olddude
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:57 PM

My dear friends
Thank you for doing this for all of us ... you are treasure

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 05:34 PM

Oh, to put the record straight, these liner notes for 20+ songs will actually take up 2 pages and not one as I said earlier.

And there is still NO ROOM FOR PRINTED LYRICS.

We could have gone for a booklet insert with more pages which could have allowed us to print lyrics at a much higher cost, but remember as a homespun project, we wish to minimise production costs and maximise profits for MUDCAT CAFE so that we can continue our ethos of free subscription forum.

That is why ,in a nutshell, I elected to take on this project.

When you think about whether to buy these CDs or not, you might think about the great range of music we will have, or the performers, all of whom are Mudcatters, or you might think about how you have been remiss in not supporting Mudcat financially recently and here's a chance to rectify that, or you might be thinking what great presents they will make for Christmas. Which ever reason, I trust you guys will buy these CDs later this year, because I'm sure all those are valid reasons to get a great product nine years after the release of its predecessor the Blue Plate Specials.
(Maybe I'm a little pre-mature with the sales pitch.....but hey, start saving NOW guys!)

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:52 PM

Bradfordian:

You can never miss by pitching long and often, firmly, softly, loudly, insistently. That's how she gets going, in my opinion. You never need to apologize for promoting a good thing.


A

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:02 PM

What Amos said.

And, Barrie, I think the idea of having more detailed liner notes, including lyrics, in a digital form is an excellent one. We have those for the earlier Mudcat CDs - the Blue Plate Specials, for which Amos worked his butt off* -- but unfortunately the liner notes were completed (to the extent that they have been) after the CDs were burned (or whatever you call the mfg. process) and shipped, so most people who bought the CDs have no way of connecting the CDs with their liner notes unless they follow the Mudcat forum regularly.
If the CDs themselves have a digital connection to the liner notes, I think that will solve a lto of problems.   It also will mean that liner note corrections can be made after the fact, if needed.

Links to the digital files are great. But given the somewhat transient nature of these here "internets," I think it's also advisable for people to print out the more detailed liner notes so they have a hard copy.   Links have a way of becoming defunct or getting lost.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 11:55 PM

It's pointless, for a limited-distribution CD, to incur the costs of printing a multi-psge booklet. A faar mor satisfactory solution, while limited to folks who have computers,is to limit printing to a tray card and a four-panel insert, and put other notes and lyrics on the CD in a printable PDF format. I've been doing this successfully for over five years.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: JohnB
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:22 AM

I did a cut and paste thing, hope this gives you all you may need.
JohnB.

Here's what we need from each contributor (or at least what we've been collecting):
1. Song title

The Parting Glass

2. Music by _Triangl_, Lyrics by _Trad Irish_ copyright year __NA___ (If "trad," it helps to know the country or region of origin, e.g, "Traditional Welsh)
3. Arranged by _Triangl_ (e.g., in the case of a trad. song

4. Performer(s).
E.g.,
_John Burton_: vocals
_Tina Burton_: vocals
_Ali Leonard_: vocals


5. background note (if the song needs one). 40 words or fewer if possible

Our version of a familiar song of Parting. Recorded while practising for a gig which we eventually won a Bravo (Brampton "Ontario" Arts Council) award for.

6. lyrics - as sung in this recording -- (punctuation helps!)

7. "Source" - e.g., if the audio file you submitted is a track from an existing CD, give the album name; if it's a live performance recording, what was the venue?

_Previously unreleased Track, CD still in work.

8. your website (or myspace page, YouTube channel, etc.) if you'd like that info included in the liner notes

9. your email address (and whether you'd like that also included in the digital liner notes booklet)

JohnB PM at Mudcat

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:01 AM

MichaelR is doing as Dick suggested re printed side of CDs

As for additional info, how sbout a permathread (or 6 even) for the new CDs.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 10:44 AM

Barrie-

Excellent idea.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 12:40 AM

Barrie [["As for additional info, how sbout a permathread (or 6 even) for the new CDs."]]

Do you mean in addition to the PDF file that will be linked to via the CD itself, or in addition to that?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 04:34 AM

Yes Genie, the pdf's will be STRICTLY lyrics only.
These pdf's need to be ready when I master the CDs.
I'm hoping to do that by the end of MAY.

I am now quality checking and compiling the track lists and cramming in as many tracks as I can. There will be about 21 tracks on each CD.
My team of mud-elves are getting lyrics for the pdf's. They are also harvesting a few notes from each contributor (40 words each) to go onto the printed insert.
Any OTHER information which contributors may wish to add could be collected in the permathreads so there is no rush for this info.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:45 AM

But it's a good idea, if you're a contributor, to submit your OWN 40-word 'pare down' of 4. (Performers), 5. (background), and 7. (source), because if Michael has to do that editing, it may not be sliced and diced the way you would like.

It would be good, if each mud elf contacted the performer per song to do just this. I have a number of entries that are going to exceed the 40 word limit if performers, background and source are all included in this.

It would make the spreadsheet easier to amend as well if we just combined those headings into one column. And definitely easier for Michael doing the desktop publishing bit.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:31 AM

p.s. to mud elves sending me updates... I now have the new MS Office on my laptop so can open those spreadsheets without problems.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 03:37 AM

Very silly question from a non-techie....

Will my very, very old CD player play a CD that has a .pdf file on it, or will I only be able to listen on a newer player or my PC?

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: treewind
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 04:15 AM

Your CD player should play all the audio tracks perfectly. It will ignore the section of the CD that contains computer readable files.

Some very early CD players would try to play the CD-ROM section and make a horrible noise, but I think even with those you could simply skip the offending track and play the music on the others.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 04:58 AM

Thanks Anahata! I knew it was a silly question but also knew that I'd be answered nonetheless!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:48 PM

Got my answer on Dakota's Cross:



Peer International Corp. owns this song 100%, not PD. Good luck with your project.

Regards,, Lee

Lee Reed | Manager, Mechanical Licensing
901 W. Alameda Ave. | Burbank, CA. 91506 USA

I'll be sending you liner notes, etc. for my own song, That's Not My Colorado, instead, asap.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:08 PM

"That's Not My Colorado"
Lyrics, tune, & singing by Kat LaFrance/katlaughing
copyright April 20, 1999

Liner notes: "According to Bert, this is the "FIRST MUDCAT collaboration song" as he had the first tune for it. Written on Mudcat as we lived through that awful day of the Columbine High School shootings. Thanks, Bert, for your encouragement!"

LYRICS:

"That's not my Colorado
With the blue skies up above,
That's not my Colorado,
Where the school ran with blood.

That's not my Colorado
Where my parents grew up proud
That's not my Colorado
Senseless killing was not allowed.

Colorado was the beauty
Of the Rocky Mountains high
Colorado was the quiet
Of the river's gentle sigh.

Colorado meant a home to me
And now, I know it not
That's not my Colorado
Where the children felt the shot.

REPEAT FIRST TWO VERSES

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Genie
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:34 PM

Thanks, Kat.

I'll update the liner notes for the "Sky" CD.   
Let me know if you'd like to add a webpage or email address to the liner notes.

Genie

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:58 PM

Thanks, Genie. Yes, I would, please:

"www.katlafrance.com"

Folks can email from there and also get a chance to hear Alba sing my song Waves of Sorrow. Thanks for reminding me.

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 03 May 11 - 09:54 PM

Don't think I ever gave this info: www.shoregrass.com

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 05 May 11 - 02:20 PM

Folks, it's become apparent that my 40-words-per-song estimate was overly optimistic. With 24 songs per CD we would have to use 6pt type or smaller, which would be unreadable without magnifyers.

Therefore I'm forced to pare the info for the CD booklets way, way down to essentials. But no worries -- all liner notes will be included, along with lyrics, in the pdf files that will be on each disc.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 09 May 11 - 07:00 AM

Attention my Mudelves.

In view of Michaels comments, I'm happy to incorporate BOTH lyrics and liner into the lyrics pdf.

There are quite a few lengthy notes going with some of the songs and some of these are essential to the song.

If you would care to "take this on board" I think that would be a step forward---------------unless anyone knows better!!!!

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:33 PM

Bit late but I'd just like you to know that Maeve has now got a song on the Mudcat CDs. She has also got a song on the seasonal CD.

I've tearing my hair out trying to get windows media player to give me a song list from my newly burnt CDs. THAT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. WHY? Because, I've just found out WMP does NOT support CD Text.( (Good enough reason to flush it down the loo!)

2 ways it can get song titles.
a)you can get a plug-in called WMPCDText (which not very many people will have)The CDs will have CDText.
b) register the CD with an online database (I think its called CDDB)

Most other media players DO support CDText including RealPlayer and VLC player.
So yes, at the right point, I'll register all the CDs on-line.


And Mudelves, please remember.....We now want Lyrics AND comments/notes(where readily available) in the pdf.
Also note, I would like these pdfs returned to me by mid to late JUNE.

Also remember michaelR needs the song title/performer details AND 40 word note to be able to produce the artwork.

bradfordian

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:42 PM

Yeah, Maeve!!

Go, go, go bradfordian, Michael, and elves!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 May 11 - 07:59 PM

Glad to hear something has gone RIGHT for maeve this time !!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 22 May 11 - 10:48 PM

I don't actually need the 40-word note, as explained before -- there just isn't room. All I need is song and performer info.

The artwork for the first CD, SKY, is done, and it looks mighty nice, if I do say so myself. This is fun!

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: maeve
Date: 23 May 11 - 07:55 AM

Barrie, kat, Terry- Thank you.

Maeve

Subject: RE: New Mudcat CDs Phase 2 Pre-Production
From: michaelr
Date: 25 May 11 - 08:03 PM

I've asked Joe to close this thread. The story continues here (click).