BS: The Government Shitdown

Subject: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:25 PM

Our troops are open around the world but they will get half pay if the shut down goes 2 weeks or more.

Also the TSA is open along with air traffic controllers.

CLOSED The Center for Disease Control, The National Institutes of Health, certain hospitals will not accept new patients, The Treasury and Printing office, Every agency that was put in place to be watchdogs over greedy corporations etc.


http://www.cnn.com/US/9511/debt_limit/11-13/impact/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: The Government SHUT DOWN
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:34 PM

oops sorry, it was an honest typo

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 01:36 PM

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/04/06/good-question-what-happens-in-a-government-shutdown/

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 02:13 PM

Is this a strike by Government workers in the US, Donuel?

Hey, I think the spelling typo makes for a genuinely great title, by the way..kinda sums it all up..

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 03:49 PM

Lizzie, we're six months into the federal fiscal year (which runs Oct. 1 to Sept. 30), but a final budget has yet to be approved. Theoretically, this is the time of year when the next year's budget is being planned, but...

Things have have been running on temporary budget extensions, the latest of which expires tomorrow. If there's no budget (or extension) before then, the government officially shuts down (with the exception of certain "essential services" and various operations that run their finances in a way that provides a different timing on cash flow).

It's a mess. (To grossly understate the matter.)

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:12 PM

Not a strike, but a ploy by the Republicans reminiscent of 12-13 year old schoolyard tactics.

The Repubs are past masters at these sorts of stupid, juvenile, and ultimately costly to the taxpayer bullshit.

All the while mewling on about cutting the cost of government.

Pretty disgusting, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:15 PM

Arrest both sides of the aisle for nonfeasance, see how they like a little time in the Graybar Hotel.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 04:50 PM

Arrest 'em? Who's going to do that, if the gummint is shut down and those with arrest powers are 'non-essential' anyway? Maybe TSA inspectors could do it.

The Republicans seem to thing that, since we don't want the government to stop in its tracks, they can get several 'social' policies changed through the 'budget' process. Their targets are NPR, Planned Parenthood, and the EPA, among others, so when they whinge on about 'balancing the budget,' but won't budge on these non-budgetary actions, you KNOW it ain't so.

And it's bloody costly to shut down the government, even for a day. And it isn't a given that any 'non-essential' folks will get paid after the furlough is over. I suspect the The Republican't Party (that's "Republican + T" Party) will hold out for not reimbusring those folks for their lost pay.

The Republican'ts want to cut government into little pieces, and simultaneously grant a 30% cut in tax rates for the wealthiest individuals and corporations. Their new 'plan' calls for cutting taxes for the rich (top rate drops from 35% to 25%), end medicare (by turning it into vouchers to pay the huge medical insurance industry), cut medicaid (the program for the poor -- Medicare is for the elderly), and similar stick-it-to-the-poor kinds of moves. They won't touch the bloated Defense Dept. budget, of course, nor raise any tax rates for the upper classes, but they're ready to go all Ron Popiel on the rest (Ron Popiel is the inventor of several kitchen gadgets that slice, dice, puree, and otherwise shred food products).

If they didn't have Fox News as the wielder of the corporate megaphone, they'd never try this, but they think they can get away with it because of that entity. The rest of this Congressional year, and the next-year's election season will be missing only one thing to match the description of the life of the peasant: it will be nasty and brutish, but it will not be short, alas.

Bob

Disclaimer: I will be furloughed if this goes through, and it will be a tough row to hoe for me, for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:33 PM

Military should be paid as usual, as will Social Security recipients, veterans and retired Federal employees - these payments are all automated. Any changes to existing benefits would be delayed, however. New claims will likely be delayed until the respective offices reopen.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: pdq
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:36 PM

Read what Desert Dancer said again.

This is about last year's budget.

It was supposed to be passed between 1 JAN and 30 SEP last year, when the Senate, the House, the presidency and the entrenched bureaucracy were all in the hands of Democrats.

Said Democrats chose to shirk their Constitutional responsibilities and not pass any budget.

Now Reid, Obama and Pelosi talk as if they are bystanders, observing this mess, but they caused it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 05:37 PM

MIlitary will not be paid as usual (see first post) however they will get full pay later unlike the rest of government workers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:06 PM

There was a shutdown some years ago.

The Santa Fe New Mexican had an online article bemoaning the fact that a shutdown would shut national parks, especially Carlsbad Caverns, which is a great tourist attraction and a moneymaker for the state's merchants.
(But very little about all the government employees who won't get checks (cheques) and can't pay their bills).

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:09 PM

Australia approached this 'shutdown' situation in the past, but the 'talk' was that the CIA was behind it to 'pull our pollies into line'...

You do realize that 17 March 2011 is one of the 'sacred' dates for EOW conspiracies.... Oh wait - George & Cloudstreet are having a Concert on the 17th - what a way to go!

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 06:10 PM

Reid, Obama and Pelosi talk as if they are bystanders, observing this mess, but they caused it.

Talk about an alternate reality- keep drinkin' that TeaBagger Kool-aid, PeeDee

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Songster Bob
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 07:02 PM

"Said Democrats chose to shirk their Constitutional responsibilities and not pass any budget."

Several Republican senators went back on their word and voted against an omnibus funding bill (this in the lame-duck session), and the "Hell, No!" crowd prevented the passage. So "the Democrats had all three branches" is a little short of accurate. You do remember the year of the filibuster, don't you?

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 08:01 PM

Jeez, Bob, don't be confusing 'em with them pesky facts! They also go apoplectic when reminded that it was their boy Dumbya that got the country into this $hithole in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 09:19 PM

Charge 'em all with nonfeasance. Maybe a criminal charge will get them back into line and force them to remember to do their duty.

Screw the blame game -- let's get on with it. Blaming others just wastes time and does nothing to solve the problem.

Arrests can be made by the FBI, as it would be a Federal crime.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:22 PM

I planned to post what what Songstar Bob said.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: GUEST,mark-s(on the road)
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:35 PM

The House today passed a continuing resolution (with 15 Democrat votes no less) and passed it to the Senate. That would give another week for negotiation and compromise. Do not know what the Senate has done with it as of this writing, but if it passes there it goes to the President for signing or veto.

Not a real good fix, but it keeps things alive for another week at least.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:39 PM

History repeats itself...

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 10:59 PM

Really?

It wasn't like that 30 minutes ago?

Jeez, for being on the road you scooped us all?

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Apr 11 - 11:06 PM

At 11PM there is no agreement. There is no CR. There is only an impass due to 2 dozen "riders" that the extreme right wing has placed on top of the budget.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 05:13 AM

I have a question.

We had a thread about Bradley Manning--Wikileaks--a while back. I have some information to post to it but can't find the thread. Doesn't seem to come up on a forum search. Can anyone help?


I received an e-mail that starts off

"Dear friends,

Wikileaks whistleblower Bradley Manning is being subjected to brutal torture in a US military prison, part of a broader effort to silence and intimidate those behind any further leaks. The government is split on Manning's abuse. President Obama cares about the US global reputation -- a massive global outcry can push him to stop the torture:

Right now, Wikileaks whistleblower Bradley Manning is being tortured in a US military prison. Manning is subjected to utter isolation that can drive many people insane, with short periods each day where he is stripped naked and abused by jeering inmates.

Manning is awaiting trial for releasing secret military documents to Wikileaks – including a video of US soldiers massacring Iraqi civilians. And his brutal treatment appears to be part of an intimidation campaign to silence whistleblowers and crack down on Wikileaks. The US government is split on this issue, with diplomats publicly criticizing the military for Manning's treatment, but President Obama has stood aside so far. "

There is more, and I'd like to post it to the thread about Wikileaks but where is it?

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM

Try "BS: Wikileaks - how embarrasing.

I think Obama should Just Say No and let the government shut down, BUT make everyone aware that it's because the Republicans didn't want to be reasonable. It's not a war we're having, despite the fact that some TeaP'ers and Repubs talk it up like it is. If they've been elected, they're supposed to be running the country, not trying to "kill the enemy." If there is no one distinct Republican face to blame for all this perhaps all of them will suffer.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:30 AM

The Repubs say Planned parenthood is getting money to give abortions but
THAT IS A BALD FACED LIE. There are 3 Federal Laws that prohibit that.
Planned Parenthood does get Federal money for pap smears and cancer screening.


There will be no garbage collection in Washington DC for the duration of a shutdown BEWARE TOURISTS>

DC government has to shut down if the Feds shut down, its the law.
Only the police and park police are on duty at an adjusted pay.




The number of jobs lost for the duration of a shut down are 800000 Federal Workers and for each Fed worker there are about 3 outside contractors that will begin to lay off starting monday.


JOBS JOBS JOBS the new Rep COngress shouted. They just didn;t say that they were going to take them away.


________________________________________________________

The first session of the REP Congress passed a new rule that said all of their members were now officially essential workers!!!

Why would they do that unless they planned a shut down from day 1 ?????????????

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:33 AM

Thanks, Jeri.

I did put Wikileaks in the box and searched the forum. Got nothing. How did you find it?

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 11:37 AM

I put 'wiki' in the box and set the 'Age' to 180 days. In the filter search, sometimes less is better. The 'Filter' searches for words in titles (I know), the blue box searches text within messages (I believe).

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 12:48 PM

"Repubs" and "bald face lie" in the same sentence???

How could that be???

B~)

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 12:57 PM

Attention thieves and terrorists. This is an ideal time to rob Federal offices that are in private and publid buildings and not Federal bld. They will be virtually unguarded or "guarded" by min wage guys who accept 'gifts'.
A bio attack is perfect now since the CDC will be closed. There will be an emergency response team and one administrator to pay for plane tickets etc, but thats it.

The vulnerabilites that open up are legendary so expect 'shrinkage' and missplace items. Workers will get 4 hours on Moday to lock and hide things.

I wonder what the punishment for working is.

THe deficiency law forbidding work goes back to the civil war. the only thing excempt is the feeding of troops in the field.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 03:39 PM

Let me see, now. . . .   I just flew in from Alpha Centauri Two and haven't quite figured out your system yet, so pardon me for asking what may be a naïve question. But—

If your legislative branches don't pass the budget and the government has to shut down, do your Senators and Representatives still receive their salaries?

And if so, who is it that's paying them?

Respectfully (but puzzled),
Gilboof Bongtoddle

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 03:45 PM

It is highly unlikely that any Federal building security staff will not be considered within one of the excepted categories considered essential for safety, national security or protection of life and property. They, like all military personnel, will not be subject to furlough and will continue on the job. Offices that are in leased space will have the same level of protection as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 03:53 PM

Dear Gilboof Bongtoddle

Apparently the Democrats (the evil bloodsucking left wing pinko commies socialists/liberals) passed a bill in the Upper house (from what sense I can make out) saying that fed pollies will not be paid in the case of a shutdown, but the Republican (the evil blood sucking right wing fascists liberals) dominated lower house refused to accept and pass it. So Fed pollies get paid. Several have said they will donate their salary for such a period to various charities, but have been criticized by other fed pollies who will be keeping their salary for being 'only the grandstanding rich'. You piratically HAVE to be a millionaire - or be able to wangle such levels of funding - to get into US politics anyhow, so they must ALL be 'rich', by definition!

Definitely a broken society, caused by self greed overall - a few good men still exist, abut as an OT character found, there may not be enough to stop the total destruction of the society ... :-).

Go back home mate, and keep your phaserfusionconversionlaser weapons primed. If they recover (they played this game of bluff in about 1995, I think - everybody lost then too!), they will come after you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 03:55 PM

"You piratically HAVE to be a millionaire"

that was a typo that SHOULD read "You practically HAVE to be a millionaire", but on thinking further, I can't disagree with the sentiment...

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 04:16 PM

Dear Gilboof Bongtoddle

Took a while to find ...

Don't pay us if government shuts down

Oh and I forgot to explain about The Teabaggers who seem to be standing firm the most, determined to cut spending for things they have an idealogical passion for (against, actually!), by attaching clauses about those things, even if the spending isn't actually happening.

Oh Teabaggers - ok nothing to do with the drink, it's a slang term for some of those human activities you have been so excited by - just ask the nice lady at that little bookstore you keep sneaking into in your wide brimmed hat and big coat with upturned collar. She keeps asking, by the way is that suit you wear one of the characters from STNG, or Babylon 5? Your secret is safe with me. Just keep the special packages coming.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 04:39 PM

Unfortunately, whether they want to or not, the US Congress cannot adjust its own pay, up or down, or eliminate it entirely. The 27th Amendment to the US Constitution says ""No law varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened." Basically, that means that any change is effective after the next national election.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 11 - 08:38 PM

Yep Congree still gets paid it was the 1st thing they voted on when Repubs took the house.


Most Federal offices are spread out into private buildings. They share with all sorts of different business. Those ae the ones I speak of being vulnerable, not fed blds like GAO< FBO< TRES

workers were told to go tot he OPM website at midnight to see the official announcment and as per instructions cease and desist from using federal websites or any "work"

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 12:35 AM

Well, the deal is made. It is unfortunate that the Dems apparently had to throw abortion funding in The District to the sharks to get it, but I suppose that is a small price to pay.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:52 AM

So, how DO you know when a Republican "agreement" is worth the paper it is written on? This time they only stuck out for a sweetener of $6.5 billion to keep their word. What will it be next time?



What really gets me is that since by definition Republicans are neither honest nor decent, how come they are almost always better at swindling?



What Obama REALLY needs to do is to apply his undoubted intelligence to the most important war to hand.   Cutting the fundie fascist arseholes and their corruption out of US politics. And while he is at it avoid future (colonialist) "squirmishes".

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: pdq
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 01:58 PM

Every dollar that the United States federal government spends is supported by only 57¢ in revenue. The other 43¢ is borrowed, going to increase the huge National Debt.

We have a spending problem that is so serious, the US Dollar is in danger of being dropped as the world standard.

When the Democrats scream that those evil Republicans want to end school lunch programs, pollute the environment and defund family planning, they are deflecting the discussion away from the real topic: fiscal responsiblilty.

If all the 2011 Budget limitations proposed were enacted, they would amount to about 1.6% of total federal expedatures. Federal spending has increased by 24% since Obama was elected, so the 1.6% step the other way, toward responsibility, seems absurdley small.

If you listen to the news, you are being told that it is "draconion" and "mean-spirited" and similar phrases. We need a few statesmen who will say "screw the media" and will do the right thing anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 02:14 PM

Ya want fiscal responsibility?
Then how about you discuss the tax cuts.
Any honest attempt to reduce the national debt cannot include tax cuts for the very very wealthy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 06:28 PM

We have a spending problem that is so serious, the US Dollar is in danger of being dropped as the world standard

No PeeDee, we have a 30 years of Voodoo Economics and under-taxing problem, especially of the rich and the corporations. Thank Ronnie Reagan & his heirs.

RE: your "analysis" of the dollar devaluation, I recommend you do some serious studying of economics forst, then we can discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:01 PM

Any honest attempt to reduce the national debt cannot include tax cuts for the very very wealthy.

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 07:33 PM

The solution is obvious - raise taxes!

The citizens of the US pay a much smaller share of their income as taxes than most of the OECD countries; corporate tax rates are higher but we have all seen those reports recently about how much taxes corporations really pay. The actual amount individuals pay (as a percent of income) has decreased over the past couple of decades - although this may be untrue for those living in high-tax states. However, government (Federal) spending has continued to increase as income has decreased. And don't blame 'the gummint' for this...every bit of increased spending can be traced to legislation - that is, to our elected representatives.

It is absolutely impossible to either have a balanced budget or to begin to decrease the level of debt by simply decreasing spending, even if that were practical. Rep. Ryan's proposal allegedly reduces debt to zero in 30 years or so, but only with draconian effect upon entitlements, some peculiar economic assumptions and (IMHO) the return of Voodoo economics.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 09:43 AM

Ryan is an ignorant lunatic, following precepts that have conclusively been shown to be absolutely bogus.

No wonder the TeaBaggers love him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM

$ 38 billion (or $60 billion). Compared with the debt of $1 trillion or so, they were arguing about a handful of peanuts.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: pdq
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 03:54 PM

Actually, the current projection is $1.65 trillion this year, 1 OCT 2010 to 30 SEP 2011.

That is for one year.

The much ballyhoo'd deficit that was built up during Reagan's time was $1.6 trillion, but that was in eight years.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 01:22 PM

The main event will not affect the Robber Barons.

Subject: RE: BS: The Government Shitdown
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:53 PM

"The much ballyhoo'd deficit that was built up during Reagan's time was $1.6 trillion, but that was in eight years."

Right. But that was in "good times", by Reagan's own figuring. (I've never understood why a person - ora country - doesn't find it possible to fix some broken things when times are good.) And after promising a balanced budget- which never happened. In eight years.

Subject: Lyr Add: FURLOUGH (Bob Clayton)
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 11:49 AM

Furlough averted this time, but while it was pending, this happened:

[Tune: Banana Boat Song]

Furlough... furlough
Furlough come and nobody show up. [2X]


Work all night till morning comes.
Furlough...
Rewardin' the rich, make the rest of us bums.
Furlough...

Furlough... furlough
Furlough come and nobody show up.

Don't need a Taliban, we got us a Tea Party
Furlough come and nobody show up.
Just got elected and actin' so haughty.
Furlough come and nobody show up.

Furlough... furlough
Furlough come and nobody show up. [2X]

Six billion, seven billion, eight's a bunch,
Furlough...
Cuttin' spending right through lunch!
Furlough...

Fur... I say, fur, I say, fur, I say, furlough...
Furlough come and nobody show up.

Don't need a Taliban, we got us a Tea Party
Furlough...
Think spendin' money makes the country too naughty.
Furlough...

Fur... I say, fur, I say, fur, I say, furlough...
Furlough come and nobody show up. [2X]


(c) 2011 Bob Clayton

(Adapted freely from a song about a school furlough (can't afford to larn 'em five days, so no school on Fridays) that someone sent me a YouTube link to, but I can't find it now.)