BS: Sloppy Pronunciation

Subject: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM

While we are talking 'Sloppy' , what about sloppy pronunciation ? And I DO NOT mean accent or dialect !

My first example - How many times have you heard someone with a (Supposedly) decent level of education on the radio talk about   'Joolery' when they really mean JEWELRY .

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM

I once had trouble with my prostate gland. Could hardly keep a straight face at the visiting nurse who would constantly call it my "prostrate" ~~ which was very near how it laid me.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:11 PM

Ah, the hambag!

Used by the seccatry.

Both often the subject of incorrect pronounciation.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: gnomad
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:11 PM

Ah yes, better break out the nucular weapons for this one.

Michael, my old Granny used to claim to have a problem with her prostate. Heaven knows what the problem really was but I am quite glad I was too young to be involved.

I've a feeling that ophthalmic specialists must get a high number of clients who get it wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:12 PM

Umbarella/Febuary/libary/wensday/nucular/

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:20 PM

MGM... hahahahaa.

gnomad... my buudy had a throat problem and had to have his vulva worked on. Asked him what he was talking about and he said, "You know, that little hangy thingy in the back of your throat." I said, if you have a vulva thingy hanging in the back of your throat you been ****ing on the wife too hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:22 PM

Erb and otel.

Most of the other examples in this thread are actually a bit tricky to pronounce and rather unlike most common English words. How hard is it to just pronounce an H?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM

And someone (or is that Someone) was once lynched on the Hill of Cavalry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:25 PM

Jack... you mean a hatech?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:27 PM

'Vunnerable' is one that annoys me.

Nowt wrong wi' 'otel, is there? I always thought that were proper.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM

Yes, pronounciation has certainly deteriated recently.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: gnomad
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:54 PM

"littley" when they mean to say "literally" (though of course they don't really mean literally, either)

Medical terms often seem to cause problems (see my earlier post, and gnu's mate) such as that of the husband of one of my customers: he apparently had "pancreas titus".

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 04:58 PM

Kay something or other, who does a morning programme on Radio Scotland. When asked by a caller how she is, says "I'm good" FFS, this is Scotland not fucking America
The correct answer, is, I'm well, or I'm very well, thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 05:30 PM

impullment [implement]
dipplemat [diplomat]
curayte [create]
pliticle snario [political scenario]


And then there is the way teenagers speak - I heard one young man saying he had been given an "opper'uni'y"

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 05:50 PM

Laura Norder

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:09 PM

'Erb' is standard US for 'herb', for some reason.

'Otel' is old-fashioned OK.

The letter is correctly spelt 'aitch'.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:17 PM

Erb and otel was French, innit.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Gurney
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:19 PM

Leadfingers, jewellery, actually. Depending on your opinion of Mr. Webster's spelling. Another syllable.

Here, the talking heads are starting to add a bit between W and N, making words like 'grown' into 'growun.'

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:27 PM

Using 'otel is an acknowledgement that it is a French word, as is pronouncing envelope as "onvelope", and garage as "garahzhe"; the same does not go for 'erb, which would need to be pronounced "airbe".

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:30 PM

And it would make life a lot easier if English-speaking television chefs simply stopped using chorizo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Michael
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:30 PM

One that annoys me is 'sudmarine'. Presumably it sails under the bubbles.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:34 PM

I say garridge, but then I'm uncouth. Always said onvelope though, except when I was using it as a verb.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:38 PM

There is a weather forecaster who has trouble pronouncing 'r'. sometimes he tells us what the weather will be like in the West of England, and then says "and now for the 'w'est of England" - it is very confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:38 PM

I've heard adults say hospickle.

The various perversions of obstreperous really have to take the medal though..

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:49 PM

Beware! The people who say "asterik" (I think they are mostly from Texas) have not actually lost the s. They have merely moved it over to "stastistics".

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: JennieG
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 08:38 PM

I have heard radio announcers use "albun" instead of "album".

And don't get me started on "Ostraya" instead of Australia, I wouldn't like to think how many sports people and politicians use it. If you can't pronounce the name of your country correctly, you shouldn't be representing it.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 08:53 PM

Jeet?

No.

'Squeet!~


Translation: "Have you eaten yet?"

No.

"Then let us go eat."

---------------------------------------------

I knew a family whose 2 sons constantly referred to their grandfather plowing his 'filled'.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: ranger1
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 09:15 PM

Spicket instead of spigot. That one really annoys me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 09:32 PM

Herb This from the Oxford English Dictionary-
".... the h was mute until the 19th century and is still so treated by many:...."

Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary gives the primary pronunciation as 'erb', "US also & Brit. usu. 'herb'"

Regionally in both U.S. and Britain, fil-um for film is heard.

Jewellery, jewelry; the Oxford English Dictionary give both spellings. And the ever-popular 'jools' which seems to be restricted to cant dictionaries.

Threads of this kind often exhibit examples of personal preference rather than correct vs. incorrect usage.

So don't get uptight about langwidge.
Wrong today, right tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 10:16 PM

Leadfinger: 'Joolery' when they really mean JEWELRY Leadfingers

Terry, I was/am under the impression that in the UK you spell it 'jewellery' while in the US we spell it jewelry, with the appropriate pronunciation.


John/Giok,how should Wednesday be pronounced? I know a woman who pronounces it 'wed ness day' and it sounds wildly contrived.

Another woman I know pronounces 'usually' "yoos you lly".

And a man who says "supposably".

When I was a kid, my family said 'colyum' and shudder I think we said 'fil um' too. I don't know when we stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 10:49 PM

The country in Central America is not Nick-uh-RAG-you-uh.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM

"Samwich" instead of sandwich.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 01:24 AM

Is the country Niger correctly pronounced, in the context of an English sentence, as "Nigh-jer' or 'Nijh-air'? I hate the latter as an affectation, but many insist it is correct.

The argument as to how it is pronounced within the country itself is not necessarily a knock-down one; and we are far from consistent over such matters anyhow: I remember when the French cities were pronounced by the English as 'Mar-sales' & 'Lions', but of late years approximations of the French pronunciation have become standard, tho with the final 's' often retained in their spelling; but still only the affected or facetious say 'Paree'. The same inconsistency applies to other foreign words like 'Beaujolais" [conventionally pronounced French-style] & 'Champagne' [anglicised]. And do you, yourself, say 'mayo-naze' or my-o-nezz'?

All v mysterious ~~ & possibly a drift, in which case apologies; but I think relevant to this thread ~~ one man's avoidance of 'sloppiness' is another's pernicketiness or pedantry ·· ness-pa?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: JennieG
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 02:15 AM

And slither instead of sliver....as in, "just a little slither of cake please".....I can imagine that cake slithering all over her frock.

Snakes slither. A sliver is a fine thin piece of something.

Terry, you do realise what you have started here, don't you? *grin*

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:06 AM

Only when something is in a sump, is it a sumpthing.

I thought "fil-um" was the Irish pronunciation.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:20 AM

Maryrrf ~ There used many years ago [1950s] to be a sandwich bar v popular with London folkies called "Sam Widges".

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:21 AM

No, fil-um is the Scottish pronunciation. Words with a 'r' are also pronounced with an extra syllable, eg farm.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Kit Griffiths
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:48 AM

"How hard is it just to pronounce an H?". As implied by gnu and MtheGM, it appears that it is VERY hard, judging by the increasing number of people (including BBC announcers) who pronounce the letter itself as "haitch" ("and now on BBC1 and BBC haitch dee"...). I'm thinking of having a T-shirt made, saying "There is only one H in H, and it's at the end."

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:17 AM

I have had a fair amount to do with bits of the Irish film industry over that last dozen years, and it's definitely pronounced "fillum" in that industry, so much so that some Irish professionals take the mickey out of themselves (when speaking to real anglophones) when saying it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Darowyn
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:47 AM

Probably everyone on here is too appalled by "prolly" to be able to bear seeing it in this list.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:58 AM

If "haitch" becomes accepted as an alternative to "aitch", how long will it be before we have the letters feff, lel, mem, nen, rar and ses?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 05:04 AM

Never ask an NZ-er about his wet deck.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM

Dave - I don't hear an extra syllable in the Scottish pronunciation of 'farm'. I just hear the 'r', which you never hear in Southern England, where there's no difference in sound between 'farm' and 'bath'.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:22 AM

I suppose my pedant side gets most frustrated with the use of American pronunciations, not because I don't like them but because the British pronunciation isn't difficult and hasn't reached the end of the shelf life yet.

As a bit of a disk jockey in the '70s I first introduced ZZ Top as Zed Zed Top and to be fair, I only started using Zee Zee Top when I heard John Peel use it.

But what makes me get all agitated is people, especially younger women who go up at the end of sentences. Regardless of what they are saying or how they pronounce it.

Must be turning into an old fart. Live and let live normally but those two above won't get you a job if I'm interviewing.

Irish film industry? What did you work on, Schindlers Pissed?

I take it you weren't the director or producer. I can't see you being the fluff either.....

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:27 AM

Even when things are pronounced reasonably well there is room for confusion. I wondered for a while what the "grey neck sports" were that the Rusians had banned.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:50 AM

Oh, that quaint liddle island !

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:52 AM

The one that curls my toes, and tickles my chuckle muscles at the same time is the common.

Caravan for sale 4 Birth.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:55 AM

Often, of course, there are alternatives which, tho sometimes disputed, are equally correct. My late mother-in-law insisted she lived in Gloucester-sheer; my wives [both] & I prefer[red] to think we live[d] in Cambridge-shɘ {the indefinite vowel}; though the Scots tend to lengthen the vowel ~~ Magnus Magnusson once announced me on Mastermind as being from Cambridge-shyer. I think all these are perfectly acceptable, though all have their denigrators who insist that only the one they favour is "correct" {a very dodgy concept when it comes to anything to do with English usage!}.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 07:19 AM

Fluids - mostly stuff to do with the now defunct Don Bluth ripoff of state subsidy - some stuff to do with a band with revenues bigger than some medium sized sovereign states - lawyering, you may be surprised to know, so I must not say more.

I'm a bit surprised you DJ'd in the 70s too. It paid my way through my law degree mostly but I started mobiling in probably 68 or 69. I still have about 700 7 inch singles but alas I sold many of the valuable ones with one operation "Unsound" when I formed a new one "Universal Joint".

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM

Sam Widges was still trading in The Greys Inn Road in the late seventies

And I deliberately used the common American spelling of Jewelry

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 07:59 AM

Like usage and grammar, pronunciation has always been appalling.

That's one reason how, step by step, we got from Beowulf to here.

(I mean, of course, other peoples' usage, grammar, and pronunciation. Not mine.)

It only becomes a problem when - think about it - it makes other people think you're a dope.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:33 AM

"It only becomes a problem when - think about it - it makes other people think you're a dope."

I did think about it, as you suggested, and came to the conclusion that the main problems are misunderstandings and/or a complete failure to communicate.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:46 AM

Which make people think you're a dope.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:52 AM

If I don't understand someone it sometimes makes me wonder if it is me that is the dope. If I do understand them but I know that what they sid was not in fact what they meant, then I think they are the dope.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM

. . . and in that post I was a dope for saying 'sid' . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:37 AM

I often go up at the end of a sentence. It's a convenient way to indicate a question?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:53 AM

Slightly off-topic, but what really annoys me is that "thing" that "people" do with their "fingers".. Flogging's too good for 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 11:00 AM

An anomaly of pronunciation [tho not a sloppiness] is, I am reminded by what I wrote about 'shire' above, is the name of the place where I live. A vowel, to be lengthened in English spelling, needs to be followed by only one consonant followed by a vowel; which is what changes e.g. 'cam' into 'came' [tho this not consistent: v 'camera'].

But in Cambridge, the 1st vowel is followed by, not 1, not 2; but 3 vowels. So it can't possible be pronounced long.

Except that it is.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 11:02 AM

I meant 3 CONSONANTS:
dash it. Don't pretend you didn't know what I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 02:06 PM

Yeah, started as a volunteer on a hospital radio and it went from there really. Mobile stuff in the main but got as far as a bit of freelance work for ILR stations. Incidentally, the hospital radio bit started my interest in healthcare which is why since selling up my business interests, I ended up chairing an NHS trust and interfering in regulation of healthcare now.

I too go up at the end of a sentence if I am posing a question. I don't use it however at the end of every ruddy sentence, as it signifies I don't think the other person understands what I am saying. Too many Aussie soap operas on the box, I reckon that's the problem there...

The DJ bit that M'Unlearned friend and I are rattling on about is perhaps relevant here. Thinking about what you are saying as a teenager on a voluntary radio station does help you in future life. As I was working down the pit at the time, my language might have been different to what it is now. I certainly wouldn't have the credibility down Whitehall that I need and at the risk of sounding elitist I am convinced that sloppy speech is a barrier to getting on in many areas of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:04 PM

I hate 'haitch' with a passion, but there is a (very) slight excuse in that it is the only name of a letter which does not include the sound of the letter itself (I think).

Also, isn't there some history of 'haitch' being the Irish Catholic pronunciation, 'aitch' the Protestant?

I still hate 'haitch', though.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: JennieG
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 06:05 PM

And poker dots.....when all this time I thought it was polka dots......

You can dance the polka, but I don't know about dancing the poker.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 07:46 PM

Sir Frauncis Chishhhter

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:01 PM

Didn't he circumcise the glob?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:24 PM

Yes, he was an amazing phenomena.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:39 PM

Nah, she were that Irish singer.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:48 PM

Nah, she were Scotch I reckon.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:53 PM

I raze my hat.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 08:55 PM

Anyway, Baggins i'nt scotch, it's obbit

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:16 PM

But how does one pronounce Wedneday?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:40 PM

Insert 's'.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 12:22 AM

Or breakfast?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 12:34 AM

The flippin' WERST are these pertendious flipheads who keep puttin' a extra "R" in the wrong flipping place in the word "liberry". Whatta buncha flippin' RETREADS them peeple are! And they flippin' do it with Febyuary too! Not to menshun "Artic" where they get the flippin' "C" in the wrong flippin' place! Did any of these peeple even get thruou Grade 5?

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 02:44 AM

Smokey - I can think of lots of things people do with their fingers, and a few of them could be annoying, but I really don't know what it is that annoys you so much. Could you explain?
[Maybe it's something I do without knowing that I might be annoying people.]

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 03:18 AM

I take it Smokey was referring to that mime of making quote marks [inverted commas] in the air as you speak to indicate that you are speaking in some way emphatically or metaphorically ~ right, Smokey? It is a bit irritating, I suppose, but hardly deserves flogging: unless, of course, you just like flogging people, in which case, I suppose, any excuse...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 04:15 AM

If that is what he means, I can say that I don't find it in the least annoying, but I don't think I have ever done it myself, so that's alright. (I would use words to indicate that I am quoting, such as "so-called".)

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Michael
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 05:23 AM

And whilst we are at it 'My bike's got a pumpture.' Unless it anticipates what will be required after the repair.

And another, I even heard it on Radio 4 the other day; 'Somethink'

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 07:15 AM

And those Radio 2 and Classic FM DJs who are always trying to get you to enter their compeditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 06:53 PM

Not forgetting their charridy work..

Smokey? It is a bit irritating, I suppose, but hardly deserves flogging: unless, of course, you just like flogging people, in which case, I suppose, any excuse...

Indeed, MtheGM :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 04:38 AM

"that mime of making quote marks [inverted commas] in the air as you speak"

I always wondered why people were doing these impressions of large rodents.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Smokey.
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 09:56 PM

They just do it to annoy me, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 06:14 PM

I've just seen, for maybe the third time, a commercial on TV for a fast-food restaurant chain. They mention that a certain sandwich is topped with "vinegarette" dressing.

Now, is this a conscious attempt to anglicize a French word, or just ignorance?

One never knows, do one?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 06:29 PM

Vinegarette.
Clarification of a foreign word. Vinegars cause severe upset to my stomach. I haven't heard it, so the restaurant is not in my area.

I sometimes have to argue with a server in a restaurant when I ask for only olive oil on a salad.

On a sandwich? A restaurant to be avoided !

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:59 AM

As I mentioned above re -shire, many pronunciations are optional. There is a useful Longman's Pronuciation Dictionary [if you find such things useful!] giving result of surveys into, e.g., what %ages said CONTroversy or conTROVersy: and even records variations over time, as in '20 years ago 27% said A rather than B, but that has now risen to 48%'.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:31 AM

Ah, it's good to see this thread revived after a tempery lull.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:32 AM

For me, the sloppiest pronunciation comes from the South of England, where the letter 'R' is only pronounced where it is not written, and, as an eminent philologist recently remarked, we are rapidly reaching a stage where the only vowel is 'ai', so that white and weight are pronounced identically (there's also no longer any differentiation between 'wh' and 'w').

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:17 PM

wh and th are handled differently on the continent and in UK, and as globalism proceeds, with the spread of 'globish', the distinctions are lost.

CON-tro versy is preferred in North America, while con-TROV ersy is heard on BBC and in interviews with people from the UK. A few years, and preference probably will change.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 09:56 PM

I am truly amazed that avenue and avenoo have not previously made it to this thread.

Ditto nuclar and nuclear.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 06:42 AM

I think we've had newqueuelar, ish.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 09:36 AM

===I remember when the French cities were pronounced by the English as 'Mar-sales' & 'Lions', but of late years approximations of the French pronunciation have become standard, tho with the final 's' often retained in their spelling; but still only the affected or facetious say 'Paree'. The same inconsistency applies to other foreign words like 'Beaujolais" [conventionally pronounced French-style] & 'Champagne' [anglicised]. And do you, yourself, say 'mayo-naze' or my-o-nezz'?===

I repeat this from above, having just scrolled thru the thread again, because it reminds me of another change/inconsistency re names {tho not necessarily involving pronunciation so hope this not too much of a drift} relating to foreign towns which have different names in English.

e.g., Italian Firenze has always been, & STILL IS, English Florence; whereas the Italian city we used to call Leghorn is now more usually called by its Italian name Livorno. Rome is still not Roma nor Naples Napoli nor Venice Venezia, however.

Odd IMO.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 02:39 PM

Globalization, I think, is leading to the 'approximate' pronunciations.
It has been years since I heard Marseilles pronounced as Marsales, it is always 'Mar-say'.
We pick up the usage of newscasters. Venice is still Venice, but Lyons is 'Leon'. Rome and Naples are kept, but it is Napoli in the Neopolitan songs.

My latest atlas has city names in the Anglicized form of the native spelling. Tiensin is gone, and the new form is there (would have to look, probably something unrecognizable), only sometimes followed by the English usage. Thus Venezia and Firenze arein large letters, with Venice and Florence in small letters requiring the magnifying glass (National Geographic Atlas, I don't know about those printed in UK).

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: autolycus
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM

I always thought it was Baal in Switzerland. Suddenly it's Basil.

Really don't like Brits saying 'skedyule' and 'h-rass' and 'ree-search'; it's 'shedyule', 'harr-rs' and 'r'search'.

And the weekday is pronounced 'wens-day'.

And it's 'Feb-rue-ary', not 'Febyou-ary'.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 08:11 PM

So not Febry then? Damn.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: autolycus
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:11 AM

That takes us back to base one; sloppy pronunciation.

And I say it too.

Just not Feb-you-ary.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:46 PM

Not Feb-brew-ry?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: autolycus
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM

Q, I think that would not count as sloppy. Imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Bert
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:36 PM

Pronunciation varies regionally. What is normal in one area could be considered sloppy in another.

Which is a good thing, otherwise we'd all be speaking Cockney.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 08:17 AM

Then there is the sloppy pronunciation that can change the meaning of a word.

Kilo-meter means a thousand meters
Kil-ometer would be a device that measures kils

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:38 AM

I seldom hear these words pronounced as a full 4 syllables (and I don't pronounce them that way, either):

comfortable – comfter'ble
temperature – temp'rature
interesting – int'resting

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 10:07 AM

Noo York Noo York, so bad I mispronounced it twice.

Even when I eas a child I cringed everytime someone said ' reservoy ' instead of reservoir.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Bettynh
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 12:32 PM

Unaccountably, it sometimes applies to people's pronunciation of their own names. Here in NH where half the population used to speak French, Italian words and names seem to suffer worst. I'm still befuddled by the person, named DiCicco (a rather common Italian name where I grew up and pronounced da-cheek-o) insisted that I pronounce her name de-siss-o. Are they exhausted by others' constant mispronunciation and just give in? How do they pronounce ciao?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:14 PM

Noo York-New York

The many people of non-UK origin in New York and elsewhere use 'oo' for the letter 'u', hence the common Noo York.
Raised in a largely Spanish-speaking city in the Southwest, I seldom heard the 'yew' as in 'phew'. Show 'phew' to a Spaniard and he might hesitantly come out with 'phoo'.
The vowels are 'ah ay ee oh oo' in most European languages.

Italians who have lost their native language may lose the Italian usage of 'ce' and 'ci', hence there is another variant where 'cc' changes to 'k'. There are many such variants, not just from the Italian.
Eastern European names ending in 'c' lose the 'sh' sound and often change it to 'k'.

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 05:34 PM

"that mime of making quote marks [inverted commas] in the air as you speak"

The usual terminology is "air-quotes."

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Tiger
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:55 PM

Been working on my own personal list for a while, naturally titled "Mispronounciations":

accessories        a-sessories
accreditation        accredi-dation
across         acrost
amateur         am-a-choor, am-a-cher
asterisk        asterick
Atlanta         uh-lanta
Auld Lang Syne        Old ...
au revoir        ori-vwah
Auschwitz        ouse-wich
basketball        bas-kuh-ball
Belichick        Beli-check
bureaucracy        brur-ocracy
bouquet         bo-kay
carafe         ca-raft
caramel         carm'l
cavalry         calvary
Chambord        Chamborg
congratulations        congradulations
customers        custa-mizz
dandelion        dandy-lion
dilapidated        dilapitated
drawer               draw
drawing         dror-ing
error           air
escape               ec-scape, ex-cape
et cetera        ec-setra, ex-etera
excerpt         ex-erp
February        Feb-yoo-ary
five dollars        fi-dollars
foliage         fo-lage
forebears        forebearers
ginseng         gensing
graph               graft
hundred               hun-drit, hunnert
hypnotize        hip-matize
immediately        eee-mediately
infrastructure        in-fa-structure
important        im-por-dant
inauguration        in-auger-ation
jewelry               jew-le-ry
joists               joyces
judiciary        ju-dish-er-ary
kindergarten        kindy-garden
kudos               (usage) 1 kudo, 2 kudos
lackadaisical        lax-adaisical
lantern               lan-trin
library               li-bary
loam               loom
Marlboro        mar-bro
mascarpone        marscapone
masonry               mason-ary
mayonnaise        mann-aze
memento               momento
memorabilia        memora-bee-lia
meteorologist        meter-ologist
Milwaukee        Muh-wokee
mirror               mirr-a
Mutombo               ma-tumbo
nuclear               nuc-u-lar
Olajuwan        el-eye-ji-wan
orange juice        orran-joos
Oregon               orra-gonn
orient               orientate
our               are
percent               pa-sent'
percolate        perc-u-late
picture               pitcher
poinsettia        poinsetta, point-settia
prerogative        per-ogative
prescription        piss-crip-shun
probably        prob-ly
pronounce        pronunciate
pundit               pundint
realtor               real-i-tor
recognize        rec-a-nize
reservoir        reser-vwah, reser-voy
restaurateur        res-tur-an-toor
rhododendron        rhododendrum
Rutgers               rukkers
sandwich        san-wich, sammich
Saturday        sare-di
scarlet tanager        scarlet tananger
Semitic               suh-mett-ic
sherbet               sherbert
social security        so-sha-curity
sophomore        sof-more, south-more
subsidiary        sub-sidder-ary
Sylvania        suh-vane-ya
Syracuse        sare-a-cyoos
tack               tact
temperature        temp-a-chur
tenet               tenant
verbiage        verb-ij
veterinarian        vet-i-narian
vinaigrette        vinegar-ette
vodka               vokka
W               dubba-you, dub-ya
warranty        warrantee
Washington DC        Washing DC
weigela               wy-gee-lia
wholesale        ho-sale
Wimbledon        Wimbleton

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 03:04 PM

Quite a list! No quarrel with most, but dictionaries permit alternate pronunciations of a few, since a clear 'winner' cannot be selected..

ginsing = jin sing or jin seng an alternate in Webster's Collegiate.
Weigela is a plant often labeled Weigelia in the nursery stocks, so mispronunciation is understandable. I have a plant of that genus in my garden, and the label had the '-ia'.
Sherbet, alternate spelling sherbert. The latter is almost universal in North America. Sorbet is either sorba or sorbet. Why 'sherba' was not retained, I don't know.
reservoir- reser vwah or reser voy both are accepted.
sandwich- the 'd' is optional; Merriam Webster's Collegiate also has 'sam-' since it is widespread. Dunno how the Earl pronounced it.
memorabilia- alternate -'ibelia' accepted.
Foreign words understandably are commonly mispronounced. Who would not be stumped by Oliejuwun(sp.?) ?

Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy Pronunciation
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:01 PM

But though Cambridge us pronounced with the long vowel a, the Cam is pronounced with the short vowel.

All neatly worked out to fool the visitors...