Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 02:58 PM Well, they've cheered my day up. Good luck to 'em. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:28 PM Say and do nothing. Neither the young people nor their parents would be thrilled you mentioned it. They'd turn on you probably. (As in 'Shoot the Messenger') |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Bobert Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:33 PM 15 or 16??? This ain't the 50s, Olster... Kid are having sex at 12 and 13 these days... Leave 'um be... B~ |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Richard Bridge Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:37 PM Quite so Bobster |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Crowhugger Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:38 PM If I'd witnessed such behaviour, before choosing to do nothing I would ask myself: Which worst-case outcome can I accept with least regret... Possible bad outcomes of inaction: ...The girl has a baby to put up for adoption in a few months' time? ...The girl gets an STD or post-abortion infection that renders her infertile? ...Their bare butt antics end up on youtube? Possible bad outcomes of action: ...The parent(s) or the kid(s) screams at me or worse, and calls me a liar and tells all the other neighbours I'm a pervert? In any case one need not rat. Why not speak to those who were careless? If you decide to talk to the girl alone, take a female witness, ideally someone closer to her age than yours. If you saw your neighbour's 5 year old & friend run out from between parked cars would you do nothing? Consider that teenagers are adult bodies often accompanied by a child's underdeveloped impulse control. Rightly or wrongly I would choose--not gladly but I'd still choose--to risk making an enemy over the risk of life-long damage to a teenaged girl any day of the week. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: GUEST,livelylass Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:38 PM Surprises me the amount of people who if they knew the kids, wouldn't even mention seeing them screwing in the grass next to their house! If it was my house and they were kids I knew, I'd say something to them same as I'd say something to anyone. Why so nervous folkies? If they're out there screwing in a public place they have to be aware there will be neighbours around, though they might not give a crap of course - wouldn't be the first time kids thought they owned the world. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Lox Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:40 PM Maybe a small bucket of ice cold water wouldn't be entirely immoral .... |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Megan L Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:43 PM Unless she was being raped it takes two to do the horizontal tango as far as this auld wife remembers. A bit of advice my mother gave me "Check yer ain gairden afore ye luk fur weeds in yer neebors" |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Rapparee Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM Turn the lawn sprinklers on. Take a picture with a flash -- you can leave the lens cap on. Use a pea shooter on an exposed part of his anatomy. Use a water gun -- a super-soaker is good. Ask if you can have a turn. Stand behind a fence and laugh. Me though, I'd mind my own business. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Crowhugger Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM Am I right that it's mostly men who want to ignore it and mostly women who want to use it as a teaching opportunity? I'm not sure of every poster's gender but that's approximately how it looks. Gee, almost like a marriage... |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:01 PM Of course, it might not necessarily have been all that it seemed. We'll probably know more when we've heard from Dave the building manager. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Crowhugger Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:04 PM I dunno Smokey, the dudester's OP was pretty clear about what he saw. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:06 PM She might just have been mugging the poor lad for his mobile phone or something.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Crowhugger Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:25 PM Mm-hmm. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: gnu Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM I believe the wise words of Megan L come from a (wise) woman, CH. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:34 PM ...or merely compromise him in some way, for the future purpose of blackmail. Maybe Dave the building manager isn't as innocent as he would have us believe.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Donuel Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:39 PM livelylass always seems to give common sense answers that are helpfull while the rest of use poke fun make puns and point out the injustice inherent in the system. * OUch see the injustice inherent in the system? As a man, it is more prudent for you to stay out of it. Nothing ventured nothing gained. On the other hand Old dude, show business seems to be in your family blood, so why not talk to the kids and offer them You tube movie deals and make some after school specials; like Spendor in the Grass, Sexatar, 9 months later, Harry Spotter and the Slick Canal. Just keep them G rated. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:09 PM I'd talk to at least one of the kids, not because they're having sex, which is normal, but because they're doing it in public view which is more dangerous than they think. If they should be caught by the cops or reported by someone less open-minded than Dan, they would be charged with a sex crime. And, in its efforts to help prevent the threat of serious sexual crime, the criminal justice system has lumped perpetrators of all sex crimes, from forcible rape to public urination, together on sexual offender databases. One of those databases is the last place anybody wants their name to be. Do those kids understand that, if they were to be convicted, they could never live within a certain distance of a school, or that the law would require that all their neighbors be informed of their offender status? And do they understand that those neighbors aren't going to ask why they're on the sex offender registry and give them a chance to explain about how they'd had a couple of beers and were porkin' in the side yard back when they were teenagers. Those neighbors are automatically going to think they're rapists or child molesters. Those kids need to understand that public indecency may be a minor offense, but the consequences can hang around for life. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Justa Picker Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:14 PM Keep it to yourself and "Mind Your Own Bidness" (as Taj Mahal sang.) |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Bobert Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM I mean, let's get real here fir one minute... How many folks here haven't had sex outside??? Hmmmmmm??? Not too many hands went up??? Okay, maybe they thought that no one would see them... Big deal... They were seen... Telling the parents ain't gonna stop them from having sex, is it??? So it boils down to appropriate (?) places to have sex... But, no, if Oldster knocks on the door and tells the neighbor than nothing positive is going to come out of... Only bad stuff... Teaching moment, my butt... Bunch of screaming and nothing will change except a wedges will be inserted (no pun intended) between these kids and their parents and maybe Old-ster and the neighbors, who has a history of problem neighbors already... Maybe a little light comment to the girl from Oldster might be in order like, "Next time, go back in the woods..." B~ |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: gnu Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM Bobert, you might be right given your comments and BWL's comments just now but I still ain't sure it's Dan's business. Why does Dan have any business with something that is not his business? Advice to a young person out of concern for that young person (and her boy)??? Maybe... maybe... but it's a tough call. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Janie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:58 PM I started to type a response, then decided to ask my 17 year old son to read this thread, paying attention to the variety of opinions, think about it, and then let me know what he thinks would be the responsible choice for Dan to make. He has read it, and is pondering. I'll get back to you. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: gnu Date: 25 Jul 11 - 07:05 PM Interesting, Janie. I am very interested as to what he will render as his adice. However, remember that this is a totally free speech forum. No matter what he says, he will be citicized and some peeps out there in cyberspace are not kind. If he (and you are) is cool with that, I am, again, interested in his views. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: olddude Date: 25 Jul 11 - 07:50 PM Janie that is the best idea yet. Hey Smokey ahhhh I know what they were doing, like she is on top of him ... ahhh no I know exactly what they were doing ... i turned away really fast but they had it going pretty good ... Janie's idea is the best one I have heard yet, please do let me know. right now my action is to do nothing at all and if they get caught again by someone else they get caught again ... I just have so much on my own plate that I can't handle a shoot the messenger situation. |
Subject: Side question... From: Crowhugger Date: 25 Jul 11 - 07:52 PM Just out of curiosity: Would anyone's advice be different if these kids were 13- or 14-year-olds? |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: olddude Date: 25 Jul 11 - 07:52 PM I don't care if she wants to ride him on the grass but that location is pretty unsafe to do so ... funny thing is there are woods all around within walking distance, couln't they wait for five more minutes to hit the woods. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: gnu Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:00 PM CH... "Just out of curiosity: Would anyone's advice be different if these kids were 13- or 14-year-olds?" Not mine. Mine is predicated on that fact that someone else's business is their business... notwithstanding my recent posts and concerns I raised and offered for discussion. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: olddude Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM It is an interesting thread not because of me starting it .. it is about exactly that, what would you do ... I mean we tell the kids how to behave, we know they are going to do stuff and I don't care what background they are raised in. A 15 year old thinks she is in love and so does the guy .. or the guy just wants to get laid (most don't know the difference) But if it were your kid or mine, what would you want the neighbor to do? It really is a tough call right? Again I am being selfish because I have a lot of my own issues on my plate with the cancer and mom and everything else .. but what is the right thing and the thing we really should do? I don't know the answer to this question. I don't know what I would want if it were my kid at that age if I really wanted a neighbor to tell me ... crazy isn't it |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM Sorry, Olddude, just my warped sense of humour. Poor kid - I don't suppose he had any choice in the matter. It's what they do - use you then cast you aside like a used teabag. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Max Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM Teenage pregnancy is a tough way to grow up for all involved. My eldest is 21 now, born when her mom and I were 17. All three wounded, one devastated by the journey. The kind, brave, intelligent and thoughtful human being that Alexis has turned out to be is 1 of my 3 proofs of a Universe that loves us. If I were witness... I wouldn't hesitate to say something to everyone. Telling a teenager anything though, especially not to have sex, is like telling my beagle not to chase rabbits, so... I wouldn't say a word but I'd give 'em both condoms every single time I saw them. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: kendall Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:31 PM At Old Songs this year I saw a young couple in the grass and they were really getting acquainted. Broad daylight in a field of mowed grass. Later, they walked by me and she looked retarded. What do you think of that? |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:37 PM I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Crowhugger Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:48 PM Kendall it's hard to say what to do when you don't know the people & circumstance, is one of the kids definitely unable to make an informed choice or is there CP creating an appearance that misled you? That said, if they were strangers I would mind my own business exactly because I don't know what's going on; if I knew them my respose would depend on the precise details of the 'kids' involved. But I can't say for sure if those choices are right or wrong. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: GUEST,Joe at the Women's Center Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:54 PM My son was 18. and had a girlfriend who was 15 years old. He was immature at the time, and had several girlfriends who were younger than he was. I wish I could remember exactly what happened, but somehow my son used me to be the intermediary for sending a message to his girlfriend - he did it in some way that made it almost impossible for me to avoid reading what he was saying to her, and part of it was that he was having sex with her - which is statutory rape in California, a legal adult having sex with a legal minor. It seemed to me that he wanted me to see that message. So, I told him gently that I had seen the message, and that I wanted him to know that having sex with a minor three years younger than he was, could get him in a lot of trouble. I also made sure he knew about using condoms. That's about all I said, and he seemed to appreciate that. Dan, I wonder if this young couple did what they did in plain sight, because they wanted somebody to see them and talk to them. In matters like this, talking can be just what the kids want, especially if it's done without an air of condemnation - but I'd talk to the kids themselves, not their parents. The parents might freak out. I think 15 or 16 is pretty young for sex. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Richard Bridge Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:09 PM My advice would be the same whatever the ages. But hang on people, think back. Girls of 15 ALWAYS want to be going out with boys of 18, not boys of 15. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: artbrooks Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:09 PM What BWL said. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: olddude Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM I would never condem them my friends. I get along with all the HS kids, they really like me and listen to my music in the park. I know both kids but not that well ... I know her parents and they would freak and deny that it ever happened so that is a no for sure. It maybe they wanted someone to catch them .. who knows .. I am sure I could talk to the boyfriend without any issues back on me .. in a gentle loving manner to let him understand the responsibility that goes with such acts. I don't know, I suspect if I did not have so much chaos with cancer right now in my own family that I wouldn't hesitate to say something. It is a difficult problem. One of the teenagers last week while I was playing my guitar asked me if I ever smoked weed. I said yes, and he said he did ... I had a talk with him about drugs and what I have seen throughout my life. Choices, right choices are always the hardest. I said I really hope you don't anymore at your age. He seemed to appreciate the talk. Now will he listen, probably not but he did appreciate the talk. This however is far more difficult due to the embarrassment of the girl and the guy and the family and on an on. I will let it sit for awhile for sure. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Janie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:29 PM Interesting response(s) from Sum Yung Sun. His opinion depends on the question. If the question is framed in terms of what "should" Dan (or another adult) do under the circumstances, his answer is "Nothing" because 1. it is no one else's business and 2. Older people don't realize that people don't learn from other people's mistakes. Then I asked, If you and a girl were having sex in a not private enough place and some one - an adult neighbor, strangers, maybe even a schoolmate, came upon you, and then or later let you know they had seen you, would you be more likely to choose your location more carefully next time when thinking about privacy? Not that he would be likely to say "Thanks, Dan!," The point however, is not to illicit appreciation. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: olddude Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:42 PM Janie very interesting my dear friend Love Dan Thank you |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Janie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:58 PM Oops. Left out the most important part. His answer to the 2nd question. It was, "Yes!" |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:10 PM Nicely done.
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Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Ebbie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:33 PM A couple of ideas popped up: #1: Is either or both of the kids the offspring of someone who works in this secured building? #2: Keeping in mind that having sex is not a crime and granting that only the age of the participants and the public place are problematic, what would you do if you saw the child of an acquaintance shoplift an item - let's say, an expensive item - at a store? Would you tell? |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: gnu Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:40 PM Gosh, Ebbie. #2... cool question, but is it a fair question? Does it "equate"? Or is meant to stand alone? |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Ebbie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:57 PM I'm just trying to establish what degree of offense would bring a clear answer to one's mind. On the record, FWIW, I would probably talk to someone in the Splendor in the Grass case but it is highly unlikely that I would volunteer that it was an actual consummation. In the shoplifting case I doubt that I would say anything. But I would agonize over it, especially if it was the child of someone I loved and was close to. Not sure in either case actually. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Janie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:10 PM I like the responses of Chanteylass, BWL and Max. Very sensible and responsible. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: olddude Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:27 PM We did some kidding around but many of the answers are well thought out ones. Ebbie you raise some excellent food for thought |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Janie Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:52 PM Ebbie, I would definitely say something and or hand out condoms in the situation Dan described. Would never say a word to the parents. That is not about an "offense" but about safety. Regarding shoplifting, I would not hesitate to tell the parents. Also would not hesitate to tell parents about knowledge of drug problems or problems with violence, or other observations concerning behaviors that are clearly antisocial or have a high likihood of leading to antisocial behaviors. My son has what he considers the mixed blessing of being raised in a very small town where everyone knows everyone. Because my son has told on himself on occasion, I am aware that good friends like Dani have occasionally called him out or held him accountable for unsafe or stupid but non-malicious behaviors they have observed him engaging in, when they have never said a word to me about those behaviors. I don't ever ask Dani if she has challenged my son regarding behaviors, and don't hesitate to ask when my son has revealed that Dani has challenged him about something. Also once had a parent contact me when he joined "the pack" in on-line bullying of a younger kid on a special interest website. Once or twice have had parents contact me about issues that I consider non-issues, and have thanked them kindly for their interest and offered no other comment. It really does take a village. It takes the capacity of discernment on the part of parents and other responsible adults to know when to speak up, and to whom. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Smokey. Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:54 PM Good job there was no wasp's nest. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: Crowhugger Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:49 AM To me it's important to consider that the laws of most lands say that activity carried on outdoors in plain view IS public business, at least to the extent that privacy is NOT expected, decorum IS expected. Where laws and standards of decorum allow for public sexual acts, ignoring the whole thing makes sense to me. Olddude was clear about why he prefers to ignore the whole episode--his energy is spent plain and simple, none to spare, too much crap to deal with as it is. Makes sense, I understand that. So now I'm wondering more about others, especially those who'd ignore it if they witnessed such a display. I get it about not going to the parents--they aren't the ones who had sex in public, or they'd likely react badly, either way no point going there. I'm more curious about the feeling it's not your business to address the kids. Why is it not your business? Is it because they're not your kids? Did someone rat you out for public sex, causing awful consequences? (Okay, you don't have to answer that one ;-).) But seriously, what would make it your business, maybe someone's kids doing this in your yard, or your kid in someone else's yard, or no? I'd love to understand more about the choice so many of you would make. And since turn about is fair play: My own answer flowed from what I hope a neighbour would do if it was one of my nieces/nephew, and from the experience of having the support of non-parent adults when I was going through my teen years. It took a village to raise me and my brother and our friends. |
Subject: RE: BS: Should I Tell ? From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:49 AM In the US, depending on local attitudes to some degree, it is quite possible for a juvenile to be "tried as an adult." Up to about age 13 or 14 that would be unlikely except for exceedingly criminal activity, but given attitudes about juvenile sex it could happen. It is NOT really uncommon for males at 16 and a day and older to be "tried as adult" for actions where the judge believes he "acted as an adult" (did an adult thing) and should have known better. That raises the odds tremendously. The female in a situation such as this, appearing before some judges, would be deemed a juvenile until she's about age 30. At 16 or older, a boy could easily be tagged as a "sex offender" for the rest of his life. I've never heard of a juvenile female being similarly charged, much less convicted, but would suppose it could happen. As to what you should do, it's unlikely that anything you say overtly to either teen is going to have any effect, other than possibly to encourage them to "do their thing" under even less favorable conditions or in more hazardous places. Telling anyone else greatly increases the likelihood of overblown and drastic (likely legal) actions that could be quite damaging to one or both of the kids. Several decades ago (times and attitudes were a little different) an uncle who had "covert knowledge" of something similar just handed a condom to the boy, said "Here" and walked away. Nothing more needed to be said - and there really isn't anything more you can say, that is likely to have any constructive effect. (It helps to not smile with this delivery, though - I guess.) It's an entirely different matter if it's one of your own kids. In this case they're not. John |