BS: Politicians, sex and affairs

Subject: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 01:39 PM

Every few months or so we see another story about a politician caught in a sexual scandal who then drops out of a race or resigns in disgrace. And I'm beginning to wonder why. Why do we care where a politician is sticking his tally-whacker? As long as it's behind closed doors, on their own time and it's happening between two { or more } consenting adults of a proper age I can't see whether it's any of our business.

Don't misunderstand me. Affairs are wrong. But isn't it the business of the official and their spouse? Does it make someone unsuitable for public office? As long as it doesn't affect their job performance - who cares? People aren't asked to resign in most areas of the business world so why should we ask politicians to behave differently?

I think it was Robert Heinlein who said "Everyone lies about sex". I'm fine with that. So in my mind when a public official gets caught with their pants down I wonder why they don't just say "It's none of your business" when the reporters show up? I'm sure some folks will disagree with some of my views but there you have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 01:55 PM

In the past, in the UK, we had that attitude. Lloyd George was famous for his infidelity, for example. France has/had an even more liberal viewpoint. And then there was Bellesconi ...

Why the US attitude has been different, and the UK seems less tolerant these days, are interesting questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 02:28 PM

Not at all... it's no holds barred politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 03:03 PM

If a politician is unmarried/separated, I think that what he or she does is his or her own business, as long as it is legal, doesn't harm others, and is reasonably discreet. On the other hand, if a married pol has an affair (or a one-night-stand, for that matter), that is an indication of a basic lack of trustworthiness and I have the old fashioned idea that one should trust one's representatives. On the third hand, that is my opinion, and there are always those who think that everyone's business is theirs.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 03:22 PM

A politician's business is my business.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 03:50 PM

It didn't really become such a public problem until the GOP decided to spend all of Clinton's years as president trying to fry him for Monica. IMO, he should have told them it was none of their business, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Every time I hear of a GOP or other anti-liberal type getting caught I chalk one up for karmic payback.

I'd like to say I agree with Art Brooks, but I am sure history of full of successful pols who diddled on the side, with or without their spouse's knowledge or consent. I'm not holding it up as a shining example, though. We just watched a good movie, Ridicule, which certainly showed how much the court of France and, thus, laws of France, were centered around who was sleeping with whom, etc. at the time. But, then, of course, came the revolution...hmmm, where might that lead us today?

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 03:57 PM

I'm inclined to believe that the same personality traits that drive men toward higher office are the same ones that make them more prone to having affairs. The desire for power in the political arena is difficult to contain and it spills over to other "endeavors".

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 04:42 PM

What is really at issue in most cases is hypocrisy. If he (or she) messes around, it is between them and their spouses (and some spouses know full well).... but if they do it while preaching fidelity and monogamy and have a history of condemning their opponents over the issue...(as several Republicans have done recently).. then it becomes a matter of 'interest' to voters who are interested in their basic character.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 04:56 PM

What Bill D said goes in the UK too. Then of course there are the politicians who gang up in single parents yelling about keeping their minds out of their knickers and threatening them with loss of benefits - while rogering everything they can get.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 05:00 PM

The pols of each party get horribly upset about the sexual antics of those of the other party, and shrug off their own and those of their fellow party followers. I don't condemn members of either party for sexual activity. In fact, I say "f*** 'em all."

P.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 06:08 PM

I'd rather not, Midchuck!**bg**

What BillD. said. As always, he gets right/left:-) to the point of what I am thinking/feeling.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 06:30 PM

What Weiner did, showed a profound lack of judgement. Clinton to as he was obviously set up.

What made Cain's behavior intolerable was the lies about it.

Then there are the gay bashing Republicans who turned out to be gay.

Edwards and Gingrich cheated on and lied to dying wives.

There are almost always other factors besides the infidelity.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 06:45 PM

The lust for power that drives most politicians, and the exaggerated sexual drive many exhibit, are aspects of the same personality disorder: egomania. It's all about conquest in the service of ego gratification. Dominic Strauss-Kahn is but one recent example.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 06:54 PM

Actually, most of the harassment of Bill Clinton had nothing to do with Monica Lewinsky and Ken Starr drilled one dry holes after another after another and the Monica Lewinsky affair just feel into his lap in the 11th hour...

The impeachment that followed was the beginning of the end of civility in America...

Very sad...

But this was coming even if politics had nothing to do with it... I remember back in the good ol' days we Americans made jokes about the Brits having "tabloid mentalities" and when the "National Enquirer" was the only publication that peddled it... Now we have caught up with our friends across the pond and may have passed them...

Also very sad...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM

"I'm inclined to believe that the same personality traits that drive men toward higher office are the same ones that make them more prone to having affairs."

And I could quote other posts that are germaine to this post.

A $3M blowjob? Come here Billybob. I'll suck yer dick fer $3M bucks.

$3M bucks? I'd even swallow... if he promised me a good tip.

Come on eh? A blowjob is a blowjob. It's not a reason to distust and impeach a president.

Let ye among you who have ever had a blowjob you didn't like cast the first stones.

I don't see any hands raised.

PS... yeah, I'd have to get pretty drunk first but $3M??? I'd go down on Monica for a lot less.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:21 PM

What Bill D. said, and the stuff about hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 12:52 AM

Of course politicians LOVE sex affairs!!!..Jeez, they've been fucking the whole country for years...and then they con you into thanking them!!!!!!!....and then ask them to do it some more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:32 AM

I thought the question was less about whether politicians have affairs than about why we care? Hypocrisy I grant you, but I don't think that's the reason it causes such a media storm. Much more is that the opposition see it as a vunerability and play it for all its worth. A conflict with policy is generally less significant than the conflict with image. So ultimately I reckon it is because these days politicians don't talk about policy much during the campaigns but manage the image obsessively. Example: Obama had a great slogan in "Yes we can" but you would be hard pressed to translate that to policy. And its the same for Republicans, or here in the UK for our parties

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:21 AM

Hear Hear!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:13 AM

Clinton-Lewinsky 1995.

Profumo-Keeler 1963.

We are always ahead ...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:18 AM

There is just as much hypocrisy in a general public who would persecute a politician over his sexual indiscretions, in my opinion, as there is in the politician for pretending he is against that sort of behaviour while secretly doing it, and then denying having done it.

It's massive hypocrisy on all sides, as far as I can see. Most human beings are quite capable of committing sexual "indiscretions" at times...because they like sex! And yet, most of them will gossip mercilessly about other people doing it and will persecute those people for it, specially if those people are supporting a different political party.

That's hypocrisy. It's political opportunism. It's the desire to damage a political foe by any means possible.

A politician's private sexual acts with other consenting adults have little or nothing to do with his ability to do his job competently, and they are nobody's business except his (or hers), the other persons directly involved, and family members such as spouses, children, etc.

People will always justify their political opportunism by some stated rationale as they leap with delight on any new revelation about the sexual affaires of ANY politician whom they dislike, because they are very pleased to see him in trouble. They'll pretend they're upset over some high and lofty principle of morality. That's where the real hypocrisy comes in. They're not upset in the least. They are obviously VERY pleased by the whole situation, and their supposed outrage masks their true intentions. Their true intentions are to destroy the career of someone they see as a political enemy, and to gloat over his destruction.

They're out for blood.

And both sides do it. Republicans and Democrats alike. But they do it to "the other guys", while trying hard to minimize the damage to "their own". And what's that? More opportunism and hypocrisy.

Now, sex crimes on the other hand...such as rape...those are clear indications that a man is not fit for office, and that he should be arrested and charged. But having consensual sex with another willing adult is not a sex crime. It's something most of us are quite willing to do at times if we like the other adult enough or we find them attractive enough (on shorter acquaintance) and we know perfectly well that it's not a crime. It's a choice.

If we wouldn't damn ourselves for doing it, we have no business to damn a politician for doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 04:16 AM

Keeler was rather a different kettle of fish (no pun intended) as she was (profitably) "friends" with quite a number of people some of whom were on the other side in the cold war, so there was a security angle to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 05:44 AM

Absolutely, Richard ~~ my point: that was where the "public interest" came manifestly to the fore; perhaps for first time since Parnell? & there was all that supporting cast ~~ Rice-Davis, Ward, TheManInTheMask [could it really have been HRH DofE!] ~ to add that especial frisson of, who-can-you-ever-trust? & all the turnups, like Ward's suicide on the day his verdict due. Blimey, you couldn't make it all up. Eat yer ❤ out, Mr le Carré!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 05:49 AM

M Lewinsky with her diddy-ickle gobble·jobs which 'didn't count as "having sex"!'? Away you...

Why, Mandy R-D added a quotation to the language which you'll find in yer actual Ox Dict of Qtns!

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 12:40 PM

.......but then, there is the perspective that if you can't contain your chaos, within your own home and family, maybe taking on other people's lives, is beyond your 'stated' worth.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:22 PM

Indeed, Mandy Rice-Davies's quote should be deployed in more trials than it is! It is becoming quite relevant to political life today too.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:26 PM

The word 'integrity' is the important one in these situations. An MP without moral integrity wouldn't get my vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:11 PM

It depends on the political circumstances.

If several equally qualified candidates are seeking the endorsement of my party (or if it is a primary election), I might well consider sexual morality as one of the factors in deciding which candidate to support.

If the candidate for my party has already been chosen, and the only alternative is to vote for the other party, I would probably stick to my party.

In other words, a Democrat would have to be pure scum to sink below the level of a typical Republican in my estimation. It's hard to think of one who has. Rod Blagojevich maybe?

And I live in a state where politics is pretty clean, so that's not likely to be an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 05:41 PM

I don't regard numerous sexual encounters as "chaos", GfS, I regard them as evidence of a strong libido.

In ancient China, where they were not burdened with the Judeo-Christian-Muslim guilt complex about sex, they regarded sexuality as strictly a health issue, not a moral issue, and all their advice about sexuality was geared as to which uses of it would benefit your health and which uses of it could damage your health. They did not see it as "sinful" they saw it as natural behaviour which, like any other natural behaviour (such as eating or laughing or running or talking or basking in the sun) was healthful when practiced sensibly (with moderation)...and damaging to the health when practiced excessively (as can occur with any addiction or obsession).

I think they were absolutely right about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:15 PM

Little Hawk: "I don't regard numerous sexual encounters as "chaos", GfS, I regard them as evidence of a strong libido."

Is that why your dick is in your ear???????

Just kiddin' with ya'...but I just couldn't resist the line.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 07:18 AM

Well, not just libido, but also access to others prepared to accommodate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 07:32 AM

Well, one thing is for sure and that is you don't hear all that much about "family values" these days...

Went out of vogue with "personal responsibility"...

Both gone, gone, gone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: saulgoldie
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 08:56 AM

I agree with Bill D. It's the hypocrisy, stupid. Homphobic Repubs who hurt gays with their incendiary rhetoric and policy initiatives who later come out. "Family values" Repubs who are unfaithful. And their colleagues who also decry such behavior who know about it by stay silent. If they are going to talk the talk, then they should walk the walk. In that regard, I don't "get" the "log cabin" Repubs. They want to belong to a party that full out hates them.

But other'n that, I'm happy with someone who isn't screwing their constituents in a public policy sort of way. I would rather have honesty about their sexual proclivities.

And if there was not the concern for reputation due to intrusive public opinion for whom it should be "ain't nobody's business but my own" and threat of exposure, it wouldn't be any security issue, either. However, of course, any sexual involvement with minors is wrong. Very wrong, no matter who is doing it.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 10:03 AM

GfS - Ah-HA! HA! HA!

Geez! You made me fall right out of the chair that time. ;-D

****

Anyone who talks the talk ought to walk the walk...but in politics? Hell, they are hypocritical about practically everything, not just sex! ;-) Campaigning isn't a truth-telling excercise, it's salesmanship.

It's just silly to bring people's private sexual behaviour into the political arena and use it for political purposes. It doesn't belong there. As Pierre Trudeau once said: "The state doesn't belong in the bedrooms of the nation." (and he was referring to a sort of different angle of the matter when he said that, but it's still quite apt.)

Look, if Chongo Chimp's sexual life were EVER made a matter of public record, do you think there's any way he could ever get elected president of the USA?????   Hell, no! Not a chance. And what a loss that would be for the nation!

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 12:02 PM

"And what a loss that would be for the nation!"

Nonsense! We have already had one of Chongo's relatives, and look how THAT worked out!

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 04:32 PM

Chongo takes deep offence at that suggestion, Bill! He calls it "being Bushwhacked".

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 06:56 PM

I can get with the idea that an affair or even a one night stand involving intercourse shows judgement which would not be acceptable to me in a person in office.

But, a blowjob? Hell no. Hey, being Pres is stressful and I'd like to think the Pres is mellow when making big decisions. Finger on the button, eh? Better to have a finger... nevermind.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Joe_F
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 08:35 PM

Men, especially, if they have any kind of power, will use it to get laid. Not always, of course, but you have to expect it.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 08:54 PM

"Men, especially.."

So, women are still somewhat equal?

You say penis, I say clitoris... why don't we call the whole thing off?

Oh my gosh. I said "thing"... is that okay?

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:20 AM

I think the emphasis on sexual conduct of politicians, has to do with our polarized political philosophy. The political parties seek to destroy their opponents at any cost, and working out a compromise with opponents is political suicide. If your goal is to destroy your opponent, then his sexual conduct is a good weak spot to target. Who cares if it has nothing to do with the political questions?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:32 AM

Exactly. Why expect responsible behaviour from people in a system that lost all responsibility a long time ago?

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:43 AM

Joe, I see the "targeting" as coming for the most part from two places. Mostly the sensationalist media, partly from the far right, against members for both parties but with more relish when it is a Democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 09:32 AM

Seems over the last decade there have been a heck of a lot more "family values" politicians thinking that foolin' around is a family value...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Janie
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 10:47 AM

Adding another what Bill D said.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 12:11 PM

Hitler used to go on and on about "family values" too. It's a standard practice of politicians to do that, and most of them probably believe in it while they're saying it....although their private behaviour may not live up to their rhetoric.

Most people DO think family values are a good thing. They also think people shouldn't run red lights and should come to a full stop at stop signs and should tell the truth on their tax return....but they tend to make little exceptions in their own case, because they figure that their particular circumstances provide for an exception to the rule! ;-)

Politicians are like that too. The main difference with them is, they're in a position to take greater advantage of temptation than is the average person. (Same goes for the very rich, famous, and powerful.) And that's why they say that "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 12:27 PM

""Chongo takes deep offence at that suggestion, Bill! He calls it "being Bushwhacked".""

Chongo should consider that "bushwhacking" a cause for pride.

If that is him in the photos, he is definitely the more intelligent of the two.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:04 PM

No argument there.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 09:35 PM

Why not just honor your oath??..to your wife/husband...to your office???....to the people who put their faith in you???

GfS


P.S. I'm surprised that a 'political activist' of sorts, didn't jump my shit, for my response to Little Hawk, saying it was 'bigoted'...or want to demand 'equal rights' for folks in a similar predicament!

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 10:04 PM

Why not indeed? Of course people should honor their oaths. And some of them probably fully intend to on the day they first make the oath. Then life comes along and puts them under various pressures and inducements...specially in politics...things change, and they waver. What worries me in politics is that some of them are so cynical that they make the oath, fully aware that they will one day break it. If so, they're just keeping up outer appearances and going through the motions.

Subject: RE: BS: Politicians, sex and affairs
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 11:26 PM

...and that's, by common wisdom, would people rather trust, and believe in a person, who can keep his word...first of all, to one's spouse. Jeez, would you want to enter into a contract with someone who is constantly cheating on their spouse??....and then wait for the day she finds out, and cleans him out?..including any business deal YOU had in mind??
Great way to get something done, efficiently!

...not to mention, if a person cannot hold their given word, as sacred....especially to the one or ones, who rely on their integrity, while raising a family...then FUCK THEM!!..I'm sure, for the right 'temptation' they'd sell you out in a New York second!....(not that anyone gives a shit these days!)

GfS