BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:15 PM

I'm beginning to think that the real base of the Democratic Party are the people with functioning long term memories.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 12:19 PM

What the USA needs is a socialized health care plan such as exists in Canada and in most of western Europe. The USA can't get that, however, because it has a public who have been so brainwashed all their lives by fear of socialism...that they are largely incapable of understanding the subject and have absolutely no idea how such a health care plan would work, why it would work, or really anything about it at all.

Obama's so-called health care plan was anything BUT socialism. It was a huge giveaway to the private health care industry in the USA, enabling them to greatly increase their profits.

Public health care shouldn't even have anything to do with profit! It should have to do with giving people needed medical care which should be a CIVIL RIGHT, not something someone profits from.

Other civil rights are things like equal protection under the law...the right of free speech...the right to the religion of your choice (or none at all)...etc.

How would you like it if you could only get police protection by paying the cops $5000 or more in cash any time you might happen to need them? Or how would you like it if your house caught on fire and the fire department said, "Oh, we'll send over our guys and put that fire out...IF you pay us $1,000 in cash when we get there, and write us out a check for another $10,000. The check better not bounce, either, cos if it does, we'll sue you and take your house and every cent you've got. Are we straight on that? Okay. Fine. The fire trucks are on the way."

The reason the police and fire department will help you at present without acting as I have laid it out above is simply this: they are SOCIALIST institutions! They do what they do NOT to make a profit, but to meet a vital and immediate public need that has nothing to do with making a profit for anyone. They are funded through taxes. They treat everyone on an equal basis. No one has to pay them exorbitant fees up front to get their help in an emergency.

That is how medical care should work. A medical problem is an emergency...NOT a chance for someone to make money! It should be funded on an equal basis by every adult citizen through their taxes, and NO one should have to pay one additional red cent to get medical help, because illness is an emergency, just like if your house is on fire or someone is robbing your house and you need the police to stop him.

If everyone funds something on an equal basis, then everyone can easily afford what that costs...because most people AREN'T in need of medical care most of the time. So the cost to each person under a socialized system is affordable. Same as car insurance. Same as house insurance. Same as any kind of insurance. We all pay these things and spread out the cost that way so we can afford it....but only a few of us need to make an insurance claim in any given year...thus we can all afford the cost of such insurance, because it's spread around evenly through basically the whole population.

The American public has been brainwashed for so long by the voices of private industry that they don't get this. That's incredible. But it's true. This amounts to a public which is simply beyond help, as far as I can see, because they are the prisoners of their own insane social mythology...and they don't even know what socialism is!

The plan Obama brought in didn't even vaguely resemble socialism. It resembles a big give-away to profit-based private health care industries. And that's insane. You who are on the Right should be celebrating his wretched Obamacare. It's right up your alley, because it helps the rich in your society get richer.

And if you don't get what I mean about that...well, here's an old article from back then which explains it quite clearly:

The pure greed of Obama's phony health care reform

Read it and weep!

Look, get this: the rest of the world watches what happens in your so-called democracy and shudders with horror. And we can't do a thing about it, because the USA is the most heavily armed nation in the world, the most aggressive military power in the world, and no one can fucking well do a thing about it if the USA decides to invade some country, bomb it into ruins, and take it over. And no one can do a thing about it if a majority of Americans willingly consent to be enslaved by a corrupt oligarchy of wealthy corporates and bankers, and deluded by 2 utterly phony political parties, because they are too brainwashed to even know what's happening to them. This is what the world watches, rather like the world once watched in numb horror at what was happening in Germany in the late 30's. No one can protect you from yourselves. Hell, we can't even protect ourselves from what your government may do. But we hope to survive it.

Note: My comments above are not necessarily directed at most individuals on Mudcat, and you should know that. You're mostly a group of leftist-folkie-intellectual types here. You do not at all represent the mainstream of social thought in the USA. My comments are directed at the USA society in a much more general sense...the common average attitude in the USA...and the common average of your society is living in a dream world where "socialism" is equated with dictatorial Communism of the worst sort. That's just a dream world. It has no connection with reality.

So don't take what I said as being directed at YOU YOURSELF personally. It is not directed at you. It's directed at the common mainstream mentality of your nation, because that common mainstream is what goes along passively with supporting the status quo in the USA, and the status quo is about nothing but ensuring profits for the wealthiest few, keeping the rest of you enslaved, and achieving imperial conquest in the world outside your borders.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest freom Sanity
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 11:26 AM

Bobert: "As per usual, GfinS, you once again have forgotten to take your memory pills..."

You must have forgotten yours. Nelson was bribed, as was Kucinich. Single payer would have been 'better'. Obamacare has NOTHING to do with 'health'......you just can't bring yourself around to understand that, yet..and that's, too bad.
The provision you speak of, was the enticement to portray benefits for the medical industry....but now as more pages are ADDED after it was passed, that fell through the floor, as well.
This system is so wrought with deception and fraud, that certain parts need to be re-done, from the ground up.
The fact is, WE cannot afford a giant, intrusive government, whose operating costs(including bribes), can be sustained by a shrinking economy, due to the reckless disregard, to the private sector...WHICH PAYS THE BILL!
On the other hand, we also cannot afford reckless, and treasonous behavior of the private global mega-corporations, who use us as where they rent our military might, to accomplish their goals of greed.

As far as the Democrats 'bailing out of Obamacare' I wish they would have displayed more balls when the shitty thing was being passed around!
Yes! We need health care...but THIS bill should have NEVER seen the light of day!
It SUCKS!
..and if this and other administrations had been doing their job, and not accepting payoffs, we would have 'affordable health care'...right from our own pockets!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 11:11 AM

As per usual, GfinS, you once again have forgotten to take your memory pills...

Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman, both Dems threatened early to not vote for anything that resembled single payer... Nelson was just a blue dog with more red than blue and Lieberman the recipient of big donations from the health insurance lobby...

Go back and study your history because you are wrong as wrong can be on this one...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 11:03 AM

Bobert: "Unfortunately, the Affordable Care Act is all the Dems could get this time around... By 2024 we will have single payer but...."

NONSENSE!!!..Absolute NONSENSE!! They could have gone for anything they wanted...majority in the House and Senate, President who would sign it, plenty of bribes and waivers...jeez Bobert, you're whole premise is off!
I mean, I guess it means NOTHING to you that the American public doesn't want it...BECAUSE of all the non-related medical shit that is in it..you know, those nasty 'little' pesky intrusions by the government and corporations.
You DON'T seem to 'get it'..People DO NOT want government involved, and controlling EVERY aspect of their personal lives.
This 'Affordable' (misleading cue word), has more to do with CONTROL rather than 'assisting' with health benefits. The 'affordable health' nonsense was just the bribe enticement..hoping to bribe your support. IT DIDN'T WORK! Get it?.....

(nooo)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 09:42 AM

Unfortunately, the Affordable Care Act is all the Dems could get this time around... By 2024 we will have single payer but, as per usual, the reactionaries will do everything in the book to slow down progress because that is what they do... Same folks wanted to hang onto slavery, wouldn't ride in automobiles, think that immunizations are bad for you, don't believe that man ever flew to the moon...

But the country has no choice but to fix health care and going back to what hasn't worked isn't a fix...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Arkie
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 09:39 AM

The cost of medical care in the United States rose over 100 per cent over a ten year and continued to rise in the next decade. The country's standing in quality of medical care dropped to where there were 30 or more countries ranking higher. And medical care had reached a point where it was no longer affordable for working families. In my small town, I know of one young man who was working two jobs who had to file for bankruptcy because he could not pay the bill for his wife's illness. And his case was not the only one. Something needed to be done before more young people and elders had to make serious choices between medical care and other necessities. Good things were accomplished with the health care plan established by the Obama administration in spite of all the efforts by Republicans to sabotage and misrepresent the effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 09:05 AM

Of course the Kucinich single-payer scheme would have been better, but no-one in their right mind could want to continue the traditional US free-for-all under which "living was a thing that money could buy" ( a quote from "All my trials").

Subject: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 08:39 AM

Democrats Are Jumping Ship

Investors Business Daily 04/20/2012

Perhaps Democrats know something the rest of us don't about Barack Obama's political fortunes. What else explains the increasing numbers who are openly defying the president on two key election issues?

The notoriously thin-skinned Obama could not have been happy with the news last week that, as the Hill newspaper put it, "an increasing number of Democrats are taking potshots at President Obama's health care law."

North Carolina's Brad Miller, who voted for the law, now laments that "we would all have been better off" if Congress had dealt with more pressing issues "and then came back to health care."

Barney Frank complained that the Democrats "paid a terrible price for health care." And Virginia's outgoing Sen. Jim Webb said the law would be Obama's "biggest downside" in the election and had cost him "a lot of credibility as a leader."

Meanwhile, stalwart Massachusetts liberal Elizabeth Warren is now calling to repeal a piece of ObamaCare — the 2.3% tax on medical devices — because, she says, it "disproportionately impacts the small companies with the narrowest financial margins."

Warren, by the way, is running for the Senate seat occupied by Republican Scott Brown, whose victory in 2010 was a result of the public's intense opposition to ObamaCare.

Former Alabama Rep. Artur Davis went furthest. "I think the Affordable Care Act is the single least popular piece of major domestic legislation in the last 70 years," he said. "It was not popular when it passed; it's less popular now." Ouch.

These Democrats are no doubt familiar with polls that show surprisingly little support for ObamaCare within their ranks. Fewer than half of Democrats think the government should be able to force individuals to buy insurance — the core element of ObamaCare — according to the latest IBD/TIPP poll. Only a little more than a third say the Supreme Court should "uphold the entire law."
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The fact that they're willing to trash-talk Obama's single biggest legislative achievement suggests they're worried about something more than how the Supreme Court will rule.

This fear is even more evident when you look at the growing opposition among Democrats to Obama's position on the Keystone XL pipeline.

Obama may have thought he'd cleverly handled the issue by putting it off until next year, and that no one would think to defy his veto threats.

But when Republicans called his bluff with a bill to force a start on construction, 69 Democrats rushed to join them, giving the House bill a veto-proof majority. The Senate bill is just a vote or two away from overcoming a Democratic filibuster.

The importance of this fight is huge. If Democrats defy him, it will severely undermine Obama's claim that he's pursuing an all-of-the-above energy strategy.

Obama came to the White House claiming that he alone was qualified to unite the country behind common objectives. The fact that he's losing support from his own party on two of the most important issues of the day is significant.