BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 12 - 12:17 PM

Just a little aside here...yeah, that's Chongo for sure in that photo. He really goes for tall women.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 12 - 11:54 AM

Well, anyway...as I've said before..YES we need health care..but this bill is what we get INSTEAD..no wonder Democrats are jumping ship. The people are starting to find out what's in it...BESIDES health care(?)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 11:26 PM

Well HOT Damn!...the rest is just what side of the 'news' presented to you that you fill your head with!!..It's all from the SAME people's script!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 07:34 PM

Danged!!!

Get Ripley on the phone 'n stop the presses...

There may be one thing on the planet, other than music, where GfinS may agree???

Say it ain't so... And if it is so, would that make me insane, as well???

Good f'n grief...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 04:11 PM

Bobert: "BTW, Paul Krugman was on CBS this morning making sense... Too bad that Obama doesn't fire Ben Bernanke and let Krugman run the show... Krugman has more sense in his finger nail clippings that Bernanke has in his entire body..."

Perhaps you are right on this one, partially..so, let's rephrase...

Bobert: ""BTW, Paul Krugman was on CBS this morning making sense... Too bad that Obama doesn't fire Ben Bernanke!"

Fair enough?....Oh, and BTW(again), Note the LAST 'joke'.....(7:35) and note the re-action. It was brilliant! .Ever heard that before?????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 04:09 PM

Chongo (with date) in tails.

CLICKY.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 10:31 AM

BTW, Paul Krugman was on CBS this morning making sense... Too bad that Obama doesn't fire Ben Bernanke and let Krugman run the show... Krugman has more sense in his finger nail clippings that Bernanke has in his entire body...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 08:28 AM

Plus, you can buy perfectly nice clip on monkey tails for less than the cost of a box of bananas for those invites where tails are expected...

Nice thing about the clip on is that it comes with a braid option so when yer out riding on yer Harley ya clip it on the back of yer German helmet and you'll really look like a tough guy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 30 Apr 12 - 04:34 AM

Yer gonna be in big trouble if I see you around Chicago, GfS. I don't go around puttin' tails on no chimps, and you won't either if ya know what's good for you.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 02:04 PM

Chongo and his 'Lady-Chimp' went to the doctors to see if 'Miss Chimpy' could get some cosmetic surgery...he added a tail!

BTW, with the limits on 'medical care' being so low under this scheme...scam..ooops,, I mean 'plan' would you know if it included elective surgeries?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 11:52 AM

Privatizin' medicare is good for only one small group of people...the medical and health insurance industry. That is...a few rich people. Rich people fund yer election campaigns. They can also afford to pay for their own health insurance...no problem.

So guess why yer politicians are doin' things their way? Because that's where the big money is fer them and their best buddies. Just like the old days back in Tammany Hall, only it's a national situation now, not just in one big city.

LH is scared to death of yer privatized Medicare system. That's why he don't live down here in the "land of the free".

Me, I live in Chicago. I just figger I'll be one of the lucky ones and not get sick. (I smoke and drink regular to keep my immune system real strong.) I expect to die suddenly on the street of lead poisonin' one day, if ya get what I mean. Fast. Not layin' sick in bed for a long time with bills I can't pay.

LH don't expect to go suddenly (although you can never tell), so that's why he is stayin' in Canada, where it won't bankrupt him if he gets sick.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 12 - 09:12 AM

This, Don, is the exact reason why every senior (or senior i the making) should be scared to death (maybe literally) of the Paul Ryan/Mitt Romney idea to privatize Medicare...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 11:16 PM

Yep, he was right about that, all right. Like I said. Pay up or DIE! That is the American plan for health care.

Don, I told ya...I'm gonna send a bill to Obama for the roof. If that don't work, I'll send a bill to Romney. If that don't work, I'll use the damage for a photo-op to get public sympathy for the APP. That is bound to work. And then I'll put in a skylight...

Hmm. Maybe not the skylight. I got enemies that might take advantage of havin' a visible avenue of attack from above on me.

Nope. Definitely not a skylight.

Anyways, don't worry guys. When I get elected, the USA will finally get a single payer plan like they already have in most civilized countries these days. I will see to that. It can easily be funded, cos Canada has such a plan and health care already costs way less taxes per capita in Canada than it does in the USA, so it obviously can be done. Somebody is skimmin' off those funds in the USA. Someone is makin' billions off sick people. I am gonna find out who. And they will be arrested and put to work bustin' rocks.

That's exactly what we need to do...ape the other countries that are way ahead of us in this. That means a single payer plan, like in Canada or France...the lands where people are considerable freer than the so-called "brave and free" here in the USA.

I will also end all them stupid wars overseas by bringin' the troops home, shuttin' down outfits like Blackwater, closin' our bases in other countries, puttin' money into civil infrastructure HERE, not more weapons THERE...and when you see how much money THAT reduces the national debt by, yer head will spin.

Also, them Islamic radicals won't have no reason to bother us no more after that. They been botherin' us so far for one simple reason: because we been interferin' in their societies ever since the end of WWII, and takin' them over for their oil. Why the hell wouldn't they hate us when we do things like that to them? Anyone else would. You kick a dog long enough, one day that dog is gonna bite back!

What we do then in the USA is call the dog a "terrorist". This is hypocrisy. It wouldn't fool no monkey and it don't fool this ape either. The dog had a damn good reason to be mad!

Then there's the Federal Reserve. I am gonna take away their power to print fiat money (money that ain't backed by ANYTHING real). I am gonna give the government back the direct control of printin' the money, and it's gonna be backed by somethin' real...such as gold, silver, platinum. No more federal reserve notes. Uh-uh. They are worthless. Remember silver certificates? I do. We useta have silver certificates. They were worth their denomination in real silver. A federal reserve note is like a piece of monopoly money. It ain't worth more than the paper it was printed on. The only reason it's been workin' so far is this: everyone pretends them notes are worth somethin'. The day most people lose confidence and stop pretendin'...you can use the damn things to stuff a mattress, cos no one will give you anything for them.

It'll be like Germany in the 1920s when that happens. And don't think it can't. Every pyramid scheme finally collapses in on itself, almost everyone who played loses when it does, and that's what we got here...a giant international pyramid scheme created with fiat money (mostly in the form of debt), money that ain't worth a damn thing, cos it ain't backed up by anything real. It's a paper game. It keeps workin' as long as the people keep playin'. When they stop playin', it collapses.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 11:03 PM

Another adventure with a health insurance company.

So in the mid-1970s, I'm working as an announcer for a classical music radio station. While a long cut on an LP record was playing and I had a few minutes, I got up to go to the bathroom. As I headed for the door of the control room, the rubber tip of one of my crutches slipped like the floor was greased and I landed with a resounding crash. I discovered later that the booby-trap was a small rectangle of cellophane from the top of a pack of cigarettes that someone had just dropped on the floor. But—I really buggered my knee!

This being on a Sunday, I went to the doctor the following day. The knee had swelled up and it hurt like hell! The doctor drained about 20 ccs of fluid off the knee, serum mixed with blood, prescribed some pain pills, and told me to stay off the knee as much as I could. In a few days it eased off, but I knew for several weeks afterward that I'd whanged it pretty good.

I got the bill from the doctor. I thought my insurance would cover it, but the doctor said they told him that they didn't cover things like that. At the same time, I got a notice from my health insurance company saying the same thing.

So I asked Bob McDonald, the program director and my direct boss, if the station had insurance that covered things like on-the-job accidents like that. Bob said (in his big, full, bass voice that sounds like the Voice of God) that yes, they did. But, he said, do this:

"Go to their office. They have a whole buiding complex in the north end of Seattle, and the reception room is quite big. And," he said, "it's usually crowded with people waiting to see someone about their policy. When you go to the desk and show them the letter you received and they verify that they don't cover accidents like yours, raise hell! Loudly! Make sure everybody in the reception room hears you. You'll get results.

"They always pull this kind of crap," said Bob. "Don't let them get away with it. But be sure you make a big scene in their reception room."

So I did. When the clerk confirmed that the company didn't cover accidents like I'd had with my knee, I put on my full volume bull-horn radio announcer's voice and said, "Well, if this company doesn't pay for this kind of accident, then what in the hell am I paying premiums for!??" Everybody in the reception room looked up from their magazines and indicated a great deal of interest.

The clerk turned three shades of pale, tried to shush me, and quickly called someone on the phone. She asked me to wait. Someone would be right there. In about thirty seconds, another woman came out and escorted me into one of the little conference cubby-holes down the hall. Once we got seated, she opened up a folder and said, "We're awfully sorry about the mix-up, Mr. Firth. The letter you and your doctor receive was a clerical error. Of course we cover accidents like that. We'll take care of it right away. And we're terribly sorry!"

So—next time I was at the station, I told Bob what had happened. He said, "Good for you! Bastards! They try that kind of stuff just to see if you'll buy it. If so, they're off the hook. But if you don't accept it and yell your head off, they fold up like a cheap lawn chair!"

What we need is good single payer health care like civilized countries and put those chiseling sons of bitches out of business!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 09:26 PM

Yup, Chongz...

Former Democratic Congressman, Alan Grayson, stood up and said the Republican health care plan was to "Die"... That pissed the Repubs off so they spent $100B to defeat him... Doesn't change the fact that Grayson was right...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 09:15 PM

Another thought, Chongo. We're just trying to ape ('scuse the expression) other, more civilized countries.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 09:12 PM

Yeah, Chongo, but who's gonna fix the hole in your roof?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 09:06 PM

I was just headin' out fer a drink this aft, had just left the office...and there was this goddam huge CRASH!!! I hit the floor! I figgered someone had thrown a bomb or somethin'. I seen dust comin' out under the door, but all was silent.

I opened the door a crack. Looked in. What a mess. There was a big hole in the roof and a pile of wreckage on the floor in front of the desk. In that pile of wreckage was a man. He was not in good shape.

"Where the hell did you come from?" I asked. He waved a hand feebly, pointing up to the hole in the roof. "P-parachute failed..." he gasped.

"Are you a Democrat?" I inquired. He nodded weakly.

"Ah..." I said. "Bailin' out on Obamacare, were ya?"

He nodded even more weakly, and passed out. I called 911. They came in after about 5 minutes and took him off in an ambulance.

I am gonna bill Obama for the damage to my roof.

Now, just think...if that poor sucker was born in Canada, Cuba or Western Europe, they would patch him up at no charge through their public health coverage. I sure hope he has a lotta coin, cos if he don't, he might as well just jump again. This is the USA, right? The land of the "free", but they sure don't mean health coverage. Pay up or DIE, sucker!!!

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 07:48 PM

I don't know what scenario you're talking about, Ake, but if it makes you feel comfortable about being downright medieval, well, so be it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 07:33 PM

I take it that's a refusal then?
Well I'm sorry Don but you must be consigned to room 101 along with the likes of John P and the late lamented Lox

Rather harsh i will admit, but you will get used to their lies, denials and excuses.
In time it will feel just like one little happy family.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 07:22 PM

Thanks, brucie...

The part about the article that I most enjoyed was Mann & Ornstein's argument that I have been making for several years now that the "both sides" crap is nothing but Republican PR trying to give them cover for some very messed up policy positions and equally messed up public behavior...

I hope the Mudville-Both-Sides-Duo of GfinS and her sidekick LH will take the time to read this article... LH might... GfinS??? No way...

Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 03:54 PM

Not bloody likely, Ake. You have gone on record in previous threads as being unalterably opposed to same-sex civil unions or marriages. Legally recognizing unions between same-sex oriented couples rather than discouraging or forbidding them would be a strong incentive for stable, monogamous relationships. This would be a long step toward reducing promiscuity, which IS the primary cause of the spread of HIV. So don't try to tell me that you are sincerely concerned for these folks, or about the spread of HIV, if you continue to hold this position!

We DO know where the disease came from. It was transmitted to humans from African apes, possibly from bites or possibly from ingestion. This came as a result of the illegal "bush meat" trade.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 01:20 PM

All true, and obvious to anyone with a pretention to sentience.

However, it won't change the opinion, world view, or belief system of any of the ignorant, largely brain-dead TeaPublican jackasses currently infesting the U.S. body politic.

The boobocracy will not be swayed by mere fact.

Truth is irrelevant.

Resistance is futile.

You will be assimilated.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 01:11 PM

From the article: "The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 01:05 PM

Sorry, Bobert. I guess Mr Post doesn't like hot-links. However, Google

"Lets just say it: The Republicans are the problem"

as is and you'll be taken to the article.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 01:02 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 12:56 PM

Great article in today's Washington Post by a couple of guys who for years have been neutral observers of Washington politics...

The writers: Thomas E. Mann & Norman J Ornstein...

The article: "Lets just say it: The Republicans are the problem"...

Maybe someone with better computer skill can do a blue clicky...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 11:16 AM

Are you 'bragging or complaining' that you are left with the smoking gun?
You dawg, you!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 08:48 AM

That was funny, GfinS, but as I said, ain't my bag so...

...the P-Vine is very much a women... And hot as a $3 pistol...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 04:15 AM

Don...What I did say about this issue is, that the massive rates of hiv/aids amongst the homosexual community, are as yet unexplained....there could be several answers.....extreme promiscuity which has been recorded.....the act of anal sex....the ingestion of toxic matter...I have never suggested that homosexuality "causes" the disease, no one knows what or who causes the disease, but one thing is plain, Homosexuals are massively worse affected by the disease
than heterosexuals and in the US/UK by far the worst affected sexual group.

I await your apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 02:21 AM

Bobert: "Hey, if they wanta get married??? Have at it...
Ain't my bag but..."

Hey, I can't resist this one:....Your 'significant other'...Makes me wonder why you call her(?) 'P-Vine'!!...grins

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Apr 12 - 02:17 AM

Ake, apparently your knowledge of biology is limited. You didn't use the term "spontaneous generation," but your endeavors in the earlier thread on this subject to create the impression that homosexual activity creates the HIV/AIDs virus is an example of that, even if you didn't know what to call it. Louis Pasteur conducted a number of experiments in the mid-1800s that established that the long-standing belief that certain "unsanitary" conditions or practices create vermin and disease by themselves simply is not true. The actual disease agent must be there to begin with.

Homosexual activity can transmit the virus the same way that heterosexual activity can. But neither activity creates the virus.

####

Michael, your reading skills are obviously remiss. I did not cut-and-paste any of that post, and I used the word "orientation" correctly. Gender orientation, not the actual physical gender of the child. You are simply not understand what I wrote. I did, however, get the information from several articles by geneticists and psychologists. Not just one article. Several.

You may not like the conclusions that authorities in the field reach, but you can't just change them or make them go away by sprinkling them with your particular brand of pixie dust.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 09:45 PM

Finally...

An issue that so far GfinS ain't disagreein' over???

Ya'll have at it as long as at the end of the day gay folks have every right as anyone else... Hey, if they wanta get married??? Have at it...

Ain't my bag but...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 09:35 PM

RESPECTFULLY!!:
Sorry Don, but you posted: "..Sorry Ake and Michael, but those are the facts..."

and these are your facts????...

Don: "..The ASSUMPTION is that it is genetic, because it has all of the characteristics of a genetic trait, but the specific gene or genes have not yet been isolated."

Where you DID go right was, (in your post)..

Don: "..There is one school of thought that maintains that geneticists have been looking in the wrong place, and that the mother carries the gene(s) and this effects the timing of the release of hormones when the individual is in utero,..."

Then you went awry with ...."and this determines the gender orientation of said individual."

Maybe the 'gender'..but you posted, 'orientation'...you either cut and pasted this and inserted 'orientation' or somebody's 'study' was very 'pre-biased'...you know, funded by someone to 'find' 'predetermined results'

Where you are pretty close, and as I've posted before, is that an expectant mother's 'disposition'(and that includes several things, which if you want, I'd be happy to go into(later) sets up RECEPTORS, in the nervous system, of the fetus. THAT determines the disposition of the child, and IS WHY some people say 'they were born that way'...they also don't have the knowledge to separate where or why those 'feelings' are coming to such said individual.
There was a pretty good film which goes into 'receptors' for the layman, that is pretty easy to understand..you may find it interesting. It's called 'What The Bleep Do We Know?'.

The receptors become 'geared' to receiving 'gratification' by certain emotional nerve impulses...much like a 'crack-baby', that is born already addicted...but the difference is, the crack baby is addicted to a artificial substance, as opposed to a sense of NEEDING gratification from an emotional need.
THIS IS NO FAULT OF THE CHILD...REPEAT: THIS IS NO FAULT OF THE CHILD!
....however, only .2% of babies who later claim being born homosexual from birth have that situation. The rest just jumped on the bandwagon. ..then the politicos expanded that claim...and that's where you and I have a difference. (besides the fact that you say you couldn't understand the words to "My Lady").
I'll continue later, I gotta go....

Regards Don,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 08:38 PM

LOL :0) Thanks Bob.....nuthin like a good laugh to clear the air!

Off to bed.....on my own! G' night all.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 08:12 PM

Shoot first, Ake, and then claim self defense...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:45 PM

Bob...Given the "atmosphere" dans chez Ake this evening, I fear your figures may be accurate.....:0(

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:39 PM

"Spontanious Generation"?....shurly shome mishtake?
I have never used the term or even know what you are referring to.

You have a very bad habit of misquoting or even lying about what other people have said.
If you can support your words by printing a post where I have promoted "spontanious generation"....whatever it is, I shall apologise.

if you cannot, i will expect you to do likewise.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:32 PM

Heterosexual spouses/significant-others in the US are 20 times more apt to be murdered or maimed by their spouse/significant-others or in-laws than gay couples, Ake...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:30 PM

Irrelevant, Ake. The question is whether sexual orientation is a predisposition or a matter of free choice. Health statistics is another issue. And it can be easily alleviated by encouraging homosexuals to form stable, monogamous relationships, which you and Michael are on record as opposing. So your talk of health hazards rings very hollow.

Don Firth

P. S. And PLEASE don't try to peddle that "spontaneous generation" twaddle again. Pasteur refuted that 160 years ago.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:29 PM

Sorry x posted Don....what the fuck has your "Scottish ancestry" got to do with homosexuality?
You're not indulging in insinuations I hope... ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:22 PM

Hmm....another cop out Richard, tho' nicely put.

Don conveniently left out the health figures in his list of "why one shouldn't practice homosexuality?."

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:17 PM

I am of Scottish ancestry. I got that from my forebears. That was not a decision on my part, reasoned or otherwise. It just IS.

And it isn't something I can change just by deciding to.

It has something to do with genes and how I got them.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 07:05 PM

We lived next door to a gay couple, Jim and Gene, so I never gave it any thought...

Hey, live and let live...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 06:57 PM

One has a choice what one does. One does not have a choice what one wants to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 05:58 PM

No one has implied that it is a REASONED choice.
Any more than the choice to be a smoker is reasoned.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 04:55 PM

You know, thinking back to my callow youth, I don't remember anyone ever asking me to fill out a questionnaire.

I remember being attracted to a girl or two in my neighborhood when I was around twelve or thirteen. Then when I got to high school, the number of freshly nubile young women I found in my proximity had me chewing the edge of my desk a lot and contemplating future delights with a great deal of impatience. I was standard horny teenaged boy.

It was in high school that I first heard someone call another boy "queer." The boy in question was a bit on the effeminate side and aspired to be an actor. I didn't know what that epithet referred to and had to have it explained to me. The whole idea—that men might want to have sexual-type relations with other men, or women with women—struck me as "simply weird" and didn't appeal to me at all. I liked girls. Still do. I've been happily married for thirty-five years. To a lovely woman of infinite resource and sagacity. We share many interests: various kinds of music, we both write (I write prose, Barbara writes both poetry and prose), we enjoy the same kind of entertainment, and of course, the usual marital delights.

About twenty-five years ago, I had a long, frank conversation with a fellow I knew who was openly gay. Not effeminate or obviously "gay," but he made no secret of it, and he and another fellow had been "roommates" for years. I asked him about the "choice" matter. He put it this way:   

"Considering the kind of prejudice, both job-wise and social, that a gay man frequently encounters, and the attitudes that many people have about homosexuality, INCLUDING the fact that it can get you repeatedly beat up—or killed!—who in the hell in his right mind would CHOOSE to be gay?"

Think about it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 03:46 PM

So easily settled:

You can prove it's a choice...

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 03:19 PM

It has been solidly established that there is a strong biological component to sexual orientation. The assumption is that it is genetic, because it has all of the characteristics of a genetic trait, but the specific gene or genes have not yet been isolated. There is one school of thought that maintains that geneticists have been looking in the wrong place, and that the mother carries the gene(s) and this effects the timing of the release of hormones when the individual is in utero, and this determines the gender orientation of said individual.

Because the specific gene or genes has not yet been found does not mean that gender orientation is not genetic.

There are actual, measurable differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight people. ONE of a NUMBER of factors that indicate a physiological basis for gender orientation (beyond the obvious, of course).

Sorry Ake and Michael, but those are the facts. And I can link to dozens of articles by recognized authorities in the fields of genetics, physiology, brain-science, and psychology that support what I have just written.

Why don't you two guys get a room together? Or—would that be too scary for you two?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Apr 12 - 01:53 PM

You're welcome, Ake! when I wrote that one('Seascape'), I lived right on the beach in So. California, as well, when we did 'My Lady'...you can hear the waves in both of them, but in 'My Lady' it's in the way the instruments are played, rather than using a synth to generate the crashing of the waves.
We did those even before the concept of 'New Age' music even came up, AND before MIDI was even standardized! 'Seascape' was do on a Roland Juno 60, and recorded on a Teac 3340, three tracks.

Bobert: "...Without getting into gens and DNA, he said that homosexuality came down to what gender people most wanted to be around..'

Ahem...Listening Don??

..and BTW, I'm not moralizing of casting 'value judgments' or 'moral value judgments' on it,...but, I.m not going for the load of crap shoveled out for rationalizations, either. You guys can, that's up to you....it must be genetic.

GfS