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BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 19 May 12 - 04:03 PM SHEESH!! He's got NUTHIN!!! Quelle suprise! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 19 May 12 - 09:34 AM Ramble on, insane one... Ramble on... BTW, they have designer tin-foil hats out... Have you checked them out??? Never mind... Just sit down with a pitcher of Tea, lean back and have you a great hate ____________ (fill in your boogie man de joir) day... I'm off to a festival myself... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 19 May 12 - 09:28 AM Bobert: "Where's your plan??? Time is up... Where's the plan???" Hey, I'm not a fucking food stamp office! When I'm done, I'm done!!...But, so far, I have formed some opinions. Maybe if your Democratic 'representatives?' would have read it, it might have even taken longer!..but why read it, when you can get bribed for your vote!??? See ya' on the other thread....then I got a plane to catch...probably have it finished when I get back. Jeez!..another pushy pushy, 'gimme it NOW!!', so called 'liberal' wannabe!!!!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 19 May 12 - 08:01 AM No, connect the dots for me, insane one... Where's your plan??? Huh??? Where's your plan??? Time is up... Where's the plan??? (There ain't no plan, Boberdz... Just mindless free association tin-foil ramblings by someone who suffers from Aspergers Syndrome and not able to follow a conversation so changes the subject...) You think, anon??? (No, Boberdz... I know...) Hmmmmmmm??? Does kinda explain a lot of the bad disconnection... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 19 May 12 - 12:12 AM Here we go again!!.....Start with the character slurs, when you have NOTHING salient for a discussion('liberal' tactic #2-b)....come on guys, get real will ya'. This country is on the brink, and you're still playing stupid 'gotcha games'....and not doing very well at it. Sounds like desperation to me! Oh, and Bobert: (just gotta fuck with ya'....) "Oh, we're back to Clinton???..." Yeah, he is one of your sacred Democrat crackpots! "Strange considering this is about the Affordable Care Act but..." Well actually it's a lot more than that. Obamacare is part of a set-up, that has been part of some stuff that has been in the making for several consecutive administrations....hope that doesn't shock you! ... yeah, Clinton could have vetoed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley but several factors were in place: "1. Clinton wasn't and still ain't a liberal Democrat... He was more of a Nixon Republican..." Every administration, since November 22, 1963 have been of the same ilk....get past the party shit! "2. He was coming off the Lewinski scandal which had set him back politically meaning he had no political capital..." That's a cop out, if I ever heard one. JFK was fucking Marylin Monroe and he could still face down the Russians... your Billy Bob Clinton gets a blowjob from a fat ugly chick, and signs off the financial future of his country, while bombing an aspirin factory in Africa???!!!???.....and you voted for him, didn't ya'???? Now I'm supposed to trust YOUR judgments and wisdom????? and "3. Citicorp threw t6he BIG $$$, like $300M in lobbyist $$$ at thee bill..." Were you trying to type something? "Thems were the realities on the ground when the bill hit Clinton's desk... Google it every which way to Sunday and that's the story...'and you're stickin' to it'...(so the song goes). "So what???" Well, some people give a shit!..When you're on the dole, and a kept man, nothing is too important to you, except your opinion....that's all ya' got! "My telling you, GfinS, basic history ain't no Holy Grail, no smoking gun... Who cares???" See above. "How does this relate to this discussion... I mean, you might as well be asking me what position I played in baseball as a kid or the first girl I kissed??? Makes about as much sense as your question..." Maybe you should try connecting the dots, instead of wondering what position you were in while kissing the base of your girlfriends balls. (Couldn't resist that one!) Just put the WHOLE picture together..think PAST the two party illusion, and you might get a flash! Don might even 'get it'. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 18 May 12 - 07:06 PM Back in the 60s there were a lot of folks who tried to act cool so they could get laid and get stoned but graduated (or not), cut their hair and went right into being part of the folks that months before they said were the problem... In surfing we called them ho-dads... Phonies... I have figured out that GfinS is much like those folks... It's easier to bitch and complain than to do the heavy lifting of keeping up with what is really going down and offering ideas...All I've heard is TeaPub talking points and cute-lite insults and put-downs of folks who do do the heavy lifting... In this case, the Transcontinental Dynamic Duo (I like that, Don - has a nice ring to it)... But back to the Affordable Care Act... Hey, GfinS... I'm not looking for a "2000 page" answer... Just give us an overview of your alternative.... (That, Boberdz, will never happen... Give up...) B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 18 May 12 - 06:27 PM You really need to take a remedial reading course, GoofuS. That's not what I said at all! As I have said in previous posts, I personally know a number of politicians, local, state, and national, who are honest and competent. Not just that, but who have displayed truly admirable personal integrity when they were under a great deal of pressure to do otherwise. I have also met people in politics who I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. And I DO know the difference. Do you? Not so I've noticed! But don't worry, GoofuS. Bobert and I, the Transcontinental Dynamic Duo, will save your sorry ass for you. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 18 May 12 - 05:59 PM ..or 401... Later... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 18 May 12 - 05:58 PM Oh, we're back to Clinton??? Strange considering this is about the Affordable Care Act but... ... yeah, Clinton could have vetoed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley but several factors were in place: 1. Clinton wasn't and still ain't a liberal Democrat... He was more of a Nixon Republican... 2. He was coming off the Lewinski scandal which had set him back politically meaning he had no political capital... and 3. Citicorp threw t6he BIG $$$, like $300M in lobbyist $$$ at thee bill... Thems were the realities on the ground when the bill hit Clinton's desk... Google it every which way to Sunday and that's the story... So what??? My telling you, GfinS, basic history ain't no Holy Grail, no smoking gun... Who cares??? How does this relate to this discussion... I mean, you might as well be asking me what position I played in baseball as a kid or the first girl I kissed??? Makes about as much sense as your question... Oh, and 400... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 May 12 - 05:52 PM Nothing????..You mean, that even you, are saying that there are NO honest, competent people out there who are willing to serve their country, in a fair, honest and Constitutional way?? ..and if there are none, they are not in either one of the major parties???? You sound more like me, now...except I haven't given up all hope...yet......that's why I still write music...maybe it can reach the hearts of people, and awaken SOMETHING good. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 18 May 12 - 03:46 PM So, in short, sit on your butt and do nothing? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 May 12 - 03:26 PM Not to vote or support corrupt or stupid politicians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 18 May 12 - 02:47 PM And your viable alternative is. . . ? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 May 12 - 01:56 PM Bobert: "Hate Obama??? Check..." Hate the fed??? check...(Hate?????....more like audit and tax the Fed!) "Hate what TeaPubs refer to as Obamacare??? Check..."(more than Tea Partiers refer to "Affordable Health Care" as 'Obamacare'..also the Democratic party uses the name 'Affordable'..which it is clearly NOT!) Parrot the "both sides" PR lie??? Check..." ( I believe our WHOLE of the body politic, including the Republicans are a HUGE problem, due to corruption, from your banking buddie's corrupt influence peddling). Want our country back??? Check..."(When did I use that term???...but while we're at it, I WOULD like it pulled back from the corruption ridden parties, that are doing the bankster's bidding!! Freedom??? Check..."(What??..You don't want freedom????..I guess a lot of our boys died in vain, huh?....Oh, I forgot, so-called liberals would trade their freedom for a 'free handout', that we cannot continue to afford). Check, check and more checks... Like I've p[ointed out, "If it it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck"...(...ask any turkey!...BTW Look at this last statement...'p[ointed out'???........get a grip on yourself! Now, Oh wise one....you never answered my question, about the FAILURE of Bill Clinton's option to veto a bill, that was CLEARLY to fuck over us, and give the bankers HUGE profits...at the expense of the world economy...Like to give it a whirl???....or are you going to choke on that one, too?? ...and furthermore, give me some CONVINCING rap, on WHY I should back ANY political party, that DOES NOT represent the will of the people, nor my moral standards!!..but pushes through fraudulent agendas, using corrupt and deceptive tricks....Iran-Contra, the 'war on Iraq, up to, and including 'Fast and furious'..I'm sure you must have a rationale for that! ..but first, let's do the Clinton endorsement of the repeal of Glass-Steagall.....and explain to me why should I back, or believe in a party, either that fucking corrupt, or stupid! Your ball. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 18 May 12 - 12:51 PM Get off your TeaPub talking points and you won't get called on 'um, GfinS... You would be amazed on just how much tea you have and continue to pour on Mudcat... Enough to sink an aircraft carrier... If you don't realize it then maybe you just ain't paying attention... Hate Obama??? Check... Hate the fed??? check... Hate what TeaPubs refer to as Obamacare??? Check... Parrot the "both sides" PR lie??? Check... Want our country back??? Check... Freedom??? Check... Check, check and more checks... Like I've p[ointed out, "If it it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck"... You can deny as much as you like but the proof is in the pudding... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 May 12 - 12:26 PM Bobert: "This apparently is not in your DNA make-up to understand..." "...This "take no prisoners" attitude by you and yer Tea-buds isn't at all American in nature.." " That seems to be a common trait that is running thru the entire Republican Party as ... " .....We have each been on the front lines participating in the democratic process and we have done what we could when we could but... "Ted Kennedy said, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good", GfinS..." You are the one who can't seem to get it through your thick skull!!!!What COMPLETE Brainlock!! I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN NOR a TEA PARTIER!!!!!! How many fucking times do you have to told that?????....unless..."'This apparently is not in your DNA make-up to understand...'" So get off your taliking points aimed at the 'right'... you are aiming in the wrong direction....(not that you care).......... That's what happens when you're a one trick pony! GfS BG~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 18 May 12 - 08:14 AM Ted Kennedy said, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good", GfinS... This apparently is not in your DNA make-up to understand... That seems to be a common trait that is running thru the entire Republican Party as it purges anyone who might find "compromise" acceptable as a means of moving forward... This "take no prisoners" attitude by you and yer Tea-buds isn't at all American in nature... It is authoritarian... America is what it is because of compromise... Yes, it can get messy but like they say, "it might be messy but its working better than anything else"... Integrity, if defined narrowly, isn't helpful... Integrity is having the courage to accept other folks different opinions and try to find "common ground" and not "killing fields"... That's the part of American history that has worked for the nation... When we don't go that route then we don't do very well... Think 1861... Think 2011 when for strictly authoritarian principles your party pushed a rather mundane house-keeping act of raising the debt ceiling into the country's first credit downgrade in history... No, GfinS... You are not one to lecture Don or me about integrity... We have each been on the front lines participating in the democratic process and we have done what we could when we could but... ...we are not the dictatorial authoritarians that we hear from your side of divide... Obama offered $3 in cuts for $1 in revenue... That's what compromise looks like... Your side's answer: "No thanks... We want to win everything"... Sounds like 1860 thinking to me... Sounds like the brown-shirts in the 30s... Yes, you can argue "That's what integrity looks like"... Well, in the words of Dr. Phil, "How'd that brand of integrity work out for ya'll???' BG~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 May 12 - 11:40 PM This Hogwash is what one gets when the blusterers CAN'T answer a question straight..it's an OLD tactic...and quite childish...and now part of the act is to pretend to act so indignant. You just can't see, or admit that Obama and Clinton were just shills and puppets, for the VERY people you claim to be against...and counting on that, you got sold a bad bill of goods. Oh, how dare GfS for asking a logical question that to answer, we'd have to THINK outside our programmed box of trigger responses!! You're pathetically boring!...and CAN'T admit when you've run out of talking point tricks. Perhaps you can thry thinking it through. Sorry to piss you off....but the lame are also blind! ...................................................................... ...................................................................... Program note:(from another thread currently running. i just cut and pasted it... I heard it on the 'Breaking news' today...I was going to post, when I heard it. Donna was a friend, who we met through her sound engineers. She even gave us her cat, a tortoise shell Persian, named 'Charlemagne'. Steve and Jurgen worked with her at Rusk Sound Studios in Hollywood, on Sunset. I've got some cool stories, one, I may have posted on here, not too long ago. Truly a good person, screwed around by her label, and a true talent. she also played several instruments. We may be offline for a few days, in attendance...just waiting to hear. Her real name was Ladonna Day. (In regards to the passing of 'Donna Summers'). GfS P.S. IF, in the course of trying to answer those earlier questions, instead of choking on them, THINK it through...Oh, and Don and Bobert, Compromise?????? You were relating to policy, not integrity, weren't you???? ....because there was a LOT of bribing with waivers to get their vote!! Funny, how those who voted FOR it, admit they never read it...and those who actually read it, were opposed to it....including Dennis Kucinich!!!!!! I guess the bevy of parrots know better!...after all, THAT'S what they were TOLD! Gullible saps! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 17 May 12 - 06:54 PM I spent a good 8 hours working in the gardens, Magz... I come in take a break every 2 hours fir 10 minutes... I don't let GfinS bother me at all... If I did, I'd quit posting... When boorish people attack others there comes a point where it becomes a big yawn... The bigger issue here is that the entire Republican Party has become the party of intolerant brown shirts... They don't accept facts... The hate science... Sound familiar??? It should... This is what the Taliban is about... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 17 May 12 - 06:47 PM Stilly's right! Like all trolls, GoofuS thrives on attention. There's nothing to be learned from him, he's full of misinformation, and his whole purpose is to screw up any attempts at rational discourse, so if his posts go unread and unresponded to, he'll just go away and make an ass of himself somewhere else. IGNORE!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 May 12 - 06:26 PM You guys are STILL here fighting about this? Knowing what you know about Gust and his proclivity for squabbling and posturing with pure nonsense? Is there nothing else to do on these nice days? Go outside and work in your gardens, ferchristsake! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 17 May 12 - 05:32 PM It's all crap... I'm waiting for the 100 mpg carburetor that the government refuses to see light of day... Oh yeah, the 5 Jewish families that rule the entire Earth... But no matter... GfinS is hopelessly misinformed about health care & the Affordable Care Act and that is precisely why all we get is the same old regurgitated crap... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: John P Date: 17 May 12 - 05:12 PM Interesting idea, Don. Here's GfS's post of 16 May 12 at 05:08 PM with all insults and obvious misrepresentations removed: Hogwash, Don! Now let me finish this whole damn thing Guest, 999....Your insights....dead on! This may well be the last ditch effort for the global banksters to seize control of everything here... I'm NOT a Tea Partier . . . If you take out the crap there's not much left. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 17 May 12 - 02:52 PM Do you have a point, GfinS??? I mean, yeah... Liberals made it be known that we wanted single payer... We didn't have the votes for it... So liberals, ahhhhhh... ...compromised!!! Where's the smokin' gun here??? Well, there really isn't one and whatever point 6you are trying to make has nothing to do with the discussion... BTW, Bill Clinton has never been and never will be a "liberal"... He is a Nixon Republican... Now, do yoy want to ********************discuss********************** policy or just continue with your rope-a-dope sandbagging??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 17 May 12 - 02:38 PM GfinS: "What??..Are you going to run and hide from an answer, as usual???" Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!!! Look who's talking!!! GfinS doesn't even tap-dance around a straight question. He just ignores it entirely and blunders ahead like a blind elephant (appropriate, considering that it's the GOP symbol), and demands that others answer his questions! He's got NUTHIN'!! Why waste time and bandwidth on this foulmouthed intellectual vacuum? Don Firth P. S. If you delete all the personal insults and such, GfinS's posts read like Livingston's "Liberty Alerts," which ooze with hatred for Obama and anything to the left of Atilla the Hun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 May 12 - 12:01 PM Bobert: "Bobert: "There is not one liberal alive who didn't want a single payer system....." ....except the ones who voted for it....why was that???... OK.......... "Clinton was such a great Democrat, working on the behalf of the beliefs of a lot of VERY LIBERAL(?) folks like a lot of you, could have vetoed it......ever wonder why he didn't???" What??..Are you going to run and hide from an answer, as usual??? If you want somebody to support your 'cause', at least answer some questions, when they ask....Jeez.....or are we just supposed to 'fall in line', because the propaganda machine tells us to?????????? That's just the way politics works..the guys at the top want their way, and the rest of us are supposed to stay stupid, and take their 'word' for it. Sorry.....I don't belong to ANY party of lyin' bullshitters...but I could get behind some stuff...if only I had GOOD REASON.....give me one, that outweighs the bad reasons. That's all I'm askin' you. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Amos Date: 17 May 12 - 10:19 AM "The poll found that: Fifty-six percent of Americans think Barack Obama will win the 2012 presidential election, compared with 36 percent who think Mitt Romney will win. Democrats are more likely to believe that Obama will win than Republicans are to believe Romney will. Independents are nearly twice as likely to think that Obama, rather than Romney, will prevail." NYT referring to a USA Today poll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 17 May 12 - 09:20 AM Apparently you have no real understanding about politics, GfinS... Politics has been described as the "art of compromise"... We on the left have had to do all the compromising... It's all we could get and, unlike hostage takers like you and yer Tea-buds, we'll take it over getting nothing... This thread is about the Affordable Care Act... Not Sawz OCD or his fixations on me... Not about the Middle East... Not about Tome Delay or Bill Clinton or Monika Blewinski... It's about the Affordable Care Act... While your free association ramblings are entertaining they are just a ploy - defense mechanism - you are using to divert attention away from your obvious weakness which simply put is that you are clueless about the subject at hand... You remind me of a musician who only has an hour's worth of material and is asked to perform for 2 hours so the 2nd hours is just one long, "Both Sides Shuffle" with a few key changes but the same old song... Here's an idea for ya'... Why not Google up "Affordable Care Act" and pass over the first couple of pages where the right wing bloggers have found a way to clog up the search engines and get into the meat and taters of the act without the hate and agendas... Yeah, spend a little time acquainting yourself with the details of the legislation so that when you come back here you'll have a more interesting 2nd set that is based on, ahhhhhhh, facts rather than emotion... In other words... Time is up on for the "Both Sides Shuffle"... We've grown tired of it... You need new material... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 May 12 - 12:46 AM Along with my premise of our 'representatives' NOT representing their constituents, but rather the big 'special interest' money guys, and much like my Clinton question, explain this.... Bobert: "There is not one liberal alive who didn't want a single payer system....." ....except the ones who voted for it....why was that???....and just WHY? You are supporting them, but they are NOT supporting you! What gives here? Frankly, I, who you think is such a 'right winger, Cracked Teapot' would have been supporting that, as well...even Kucinich, who i thought was more 'on'......but they didn't...ever ask yourselves, "What was in the provisions of the bill, that made that such an imperative???"...and THAT'S where the devil lurks in the details!!!...NOT in the government providing health care...all the other stuff that hinges on those 'benefits' to someone(?), for NOT having a single payer....which, same provisions puts it up in the Supreme Court!!!...AND have a LOT of VERY Sane people, bailing OUT, on supporting the bill. Can't you understand that??? So, now you have TWO (related) questions to answer...and YOU brought it up! Could this be as stupid, or deceptive as Clinton NOT vetoing the repeal, of Glass-Steagall?????? What are the Democrats spinning about this?..Surely, any 'concerned liberal Democrat' would have to want SOME explanation...even if it was just 'spin'.... Your turn. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 May 12 - 11:32 PM Besides being 'entertaining', as Bobert posts...there was a question in the post, that is NOT being addressed, but thoughtfully avoided. My contention is that BOTH parties a working in behalf, and at the behest of their corrupt corporate banking buddies...some of you think 'not'...so explain this, from my post....I'm all ears... "Tom Delay(presently in jail), was the 'hammer' to get this to Clinton, on behalf of his banking buddies. Clinton was such a great Democrat, working on the behalf of the beliefs of a lot of VERY LIBERAL(?) folks like a lot of you, could have vetoed it......ever wonder why he didn't??? (HINT: He was working for the banking buddies, too!)..Fooled ya'...didn't he??!!?? He was either VERY stupid, or very clever at deceiving the intentions of those who voted for the scumbag!...Bobert should re-think his incense burning to the Democratic party, just based on that one, alone! Stupid dick-wad(Clinton), set the groundwork to completely fuck up the economy, just for his banking pals....well, didn't he?" Key question: " Clinton was such a great Democrat, working on the behalf of the beliefs of a lot of VERY LIBERAL(?) folks like a lot of you, could have vetoed it......ever wonder why he didn't???" Your 'thoughts'(?). Hi Sawzaw....y' been away for a while. your posts were, once again, to the point....I don't know if the 'left' knows what to do with answering....they'll probably just smear you...that's all they know...that being said, I'm not a right winger, despite some whiner's assertions.....I think they do the repetitious, broken record, nagging thing, because their used to their ol' laddie's constant reminding them to 'lift the seat', and 'eat over the sink!'...and they're of the mindset of NOT listening!...just 'nag-driven'! OK.......... "Clinton was such a great Democrat, working on the behalf of the beliefs of a lot of VERY LIBERAL(?) folks like a lot of you, could have vetoed it......ever wonder why he didn't???" Well?? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Sawzaw Date: 16 May 12 - 10:54 PM ObamaCare cost the president "a lot of credibility as a leader," said Virginia Sen. Jim Webb. "The climate out there was really ugly because of it," said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash. Former Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala., says ObamaCare "is the single least popular piece of major domestic legislation in the last 70 years." It will be "an albatross" for Democrats in 2012, Davis predicts. Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., had labored in 2009 to develop a health reform plan that could win bipartisan support. Having Republicans on board would have deflected the sharp partisan divide, but the White House short-circuited the effort because the president and his advisers grew impatient with the delay. As it is, the health care overhaul law is in serious trouble and may either be struck down by the Supreme Court â€" in part or in full â€" or become a major issue in the 2012 elections, with a strong effort on behalf of conservatives to push for full repeal next year. Two-thirds of the American people in a recent Washington Post/ABC News poll said they want all or part of the law to be struck down by the courts. If the Congress remains divided and President Obama is re-elected, major changes will have to be made to the law. The cost is soaring even before most of its provisions take effect in 2014. The Congressional Budget Office now calculates the 10-year cost will be $1.76 trillion, nearly twice the $940 billion estimated when the law was enacted two years ago. In an era of ballooning federal deficits, these costs are simply unacceptable. Further, major companies are seriously considering dropping health insurance coverage altogether to avoid the huge costs of complying with the employer mandate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Sawzaw Date: 16 May 12 - 10:46 PM A CBS News/New York Times poll shows 47 percent of Americans disapprove of the president's Affordable Care Act, including 30 percent who strongly disapprove. In the poll, conducted March 21-25, only 36 percent of those questioned said they support the law either somewhat or strongly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Sawzaw Date: 16 May 12 - 10:28 PM Bobert "fact": "Sorry, Sawz, but this thread is about the Affordable care Act... If you wnat to talk about other stuff then please start another thread" Read the topic Bobert the bully. It says Etc. And your "facts" are still fairy tales. You are the OCD candidate for Betty Ford. Ol' Bobert don't ***do facts*** He gets all buzzed up, does what if's and fairy tales and tells people what they can post. Folks that claim that the West Bank is no bigger than Washington DC definitely need a Betty Ford detox from the shine and weed. By the way, have your health care costs become more affordable yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 16 May 12 - 08:06 PM "all who support this economic system are reactionary and mainly they come from the 'liberal' fixers....." WHAT!?? You mean you flunked out of Remedial Political Science also, Ake? (Maybe some people here are speaking a whole, strange, alien lanuguage. That would explain a lot.....) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 16 May 12 - 07:58 PM Sorry, Ake, but you ain't in GfinS class/un-class... Your positions come from your heart and don't seem to match up too well with any political party... GfinS, on the other hand, has his tent pitched squarely in the middle of the Tea Party Tent Villiage... 100% of GfinS's positions are Tea, Tea and if ya' didn't like that TEA, more Tea.. B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: akenaton Date: 16 May 12 - 07:47 PM Excuse me, but what would be the point of guestsaying repeatedly that he wasn't a "right winger" if in fact he was. I just don't understand what possible benefit he could gain by doing so. I am definitely not "right wing" but I believe some of their ideals are beneficial to society. Does that make me "right wing" in your eyes? Am I just pretending to be "left", are all my years of fighting this system a mirage? To my mind, all who support this economic system are reactionary and mainly they come from the "liberal" fixers the great rump who attest that they can work to make things better, when it has become evident to the most politically naive that "things" are going to get steadily worse for at least a couple of generations.... that will take in your own grandchildren and in some cases great grandchildren. All that matters to Party politicians is the continuation of "The System", for in effect, they are part of it ....bought and paid for! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 16 May 12 - 07:23 PM We don't need an injunction, Don... GfinS isn't winning anything here... Just showing just how ignorant the rude the right wing is... Oh, that's right??? GfinS says he ain't right wing... LOL... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 16 May 12 - 07:12 PM Okay, so I break my own injunction. "...a guy in your position...." Spell it out, Michael. What do you mean? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 16 May 12 - 06:51 PM Well, GfinS, if you don't want a right-winged police state then time for you to get your head out of their ass... As for your assertion that we on the left are "ideologues"... You are wrong as wrong can be... There is not one liberal alive who didn't want a single payer system yet here we are having COMPROMISED and reluctantly accepting a step forward but not what we wanted... That *********************is not******************** ideologue... Try Websters now and then... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 16 May 12 - 06:36 PM (Remember: IGNORE!!) DF |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 May 12 - 05:08 PM Hogwash, Don! Do you EVER have ANYTHING constructive to say, outside of music????...and for what it's worth, a guy in your position, would not be helped much, if at all, under Obamacare...sorry to say ol' chap, but it's true....Now let me finish this whole damn thing, so I for one, can give you an educated opinion..instead of your emotional bantering..OK?.. and knock off the childish(or second child-hoodish'), emotionally based recitation of the Democratic talking points. Guest, 999....Your insights....dead on! I wish the phony 'liberal-ites' would wake up, and see what hand they are forcing. What they still CANNOT see or come to grips with, is they are DOING the things that they accuse the 'right' of doing!...which is EXACTLY the work of the banksters who control BOTH of them. This may well be the last ditch effort for the global banksters to seize control of everything here...with of course, the wrangling of the 'right' and 'left' factions. I'm NOT a Tea Partier, which I've said a ba-zillion times, but those who are 'slow of hearing' or understanding, can't wrap their brains, or what ever they are using, around it!...So the whine like little babies with packed diapers! Hey, 'liberals', would you prefer a 'left-wing' police state over a 'right-wing' police state??? I prefer neither.... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 16 May 12 - 05:06 PM Bill Bradley, in spite of being a professional basketball player, was a Rhodes Scholar if memory serves me correctly... And I read some congressman say that Bradley was always the best prepared in hearings and caucuses... A real policy wonk... As for GfinS??? All one has to do is read the first sentence of the 2:54 post to see that GfinS had no interest in a policy discussion and I'd bet a dollar to dough nuts that there won't be any plan in any of our life times... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Don Firth Date: 16 May 12 - 04:02 PM There is little point in trying to have a serious discussion of the issues with someone like GfinS constantly interrupting with his shallow thinking and foul mouth. Along with misquoting and misrepresenting what others say, about the best he can come up with in an effort to refute what I said in an entire post, he zeroes in on a TYPO—he, whose spelling, grammar, and punctuation verge on the illiterate. And he doesn't seem to know WHAT his political position is. He spouts Right Wing propaganda, then denies that he is a Right Winger. I don't think he even KNOWS what his political position is. And make no mistake, everyone HAS a political position whether or not they are knowledgeable enough to analyse it, root out its inconsistencies, and be able to enunciate it clearly. In the realm of politics—and in the realm of simple human relations—and just as a civilized human being, Michael is a couple of Chicken McNuggets short of a Happy Meal! IGNORE HIM!! #### I heard an excellent interview this morning on my local NPR affiliate. Local host and interviewer Steve Scher talked with former New Jersey Senator Bill Bradley, who had a LOT of good things to say. He has a new book out entitled, We Can All Do Better. Among other things, it is an appeal to citizens to educate themselves, then get off their butts and get involved in politics. Bradley points out that the really important changes in American society and politics have almost always come as a result of people getting passionately involved. The anti-slavery movement in the 1800s that led to the Civil War and Emancipation, the Women's Suffrage Movement, the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s, and the Peace Movement ending the Vietnam War—these actions forced the politicians to accede to the wishes of the citizens. FDR used to tell citizens who were demanding changes during the Depression, "I agree with you. Now—MAKE me do it!!" By which he meant, "Give me the citizen support that I need to do this!" This is what we need to do. Make noise. Give Obama and other politicians the popular support that they need to accomplish what we want them to accomplish—rather than doing nothing but bitching and complaining about what a lousy president Obama is and how we can do nothing because all politicians have been bought. As GfinS is doing. And Little Hawk. Bradley points at the Tea Party and says that they managed to get some forty of the Republican candidates they favored elected to Congress in the last election. He lauds the Occupy Movement and says they have a good slogan ("We are the 99 percent!"), but contrary to what some have said, they need an agenda and they need to give strong support to political candidates who reflect their positions. Those who sit around and claim that the "moneyed interests" are too powerful and there is no point in opposing them are greatly appreciated by—the moneyed interests. That's exactly what they want you to do: NOTHING! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 16 May 12 - 03:14 PM Yo, GfinS... Seems yer having the same problem as yer TeaPub buddies... They're working on a plan, too, but having trouble putting it together... Actually they want you to vote for them on a promise that they will present their plan after the election... BTW, yer buddy Sawz's Betty Ford counselor is looking for him... He is off his OCD meds... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: akenaton Date: 16 May 12 - 02:12 PM "And make no bones about it... Given the "stand your ground laws", all the union busting and the disenfranchisement of voters these radical libertarians will do just that" Sorry Bob i dont mean to stalk you, but isn't it clear that when capitalism is in decline(like NOW in the West), Unions are shown to be absolutely powerless and our "democratic votes" not worth the paper they're marked on. If we cant see the contradictions,smoke, mirrors and downright lies at this juncture, there is indeed no hope for us and our stupidity will be roundly punished. This system cannot be fixed....Perhaps the US will be sheltered from the worst effects, but Europe and the UK will not weather the storm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 May 12 - 01:32 PM Bobert, I hear you but respectfully disagree. Over half the House and Senate are filled with millionaires. Sorry, buddy, but I don't think millionaires really have much understanding about poverty, and that's where the rubber hits the road. I recall when Martha Mitchell (the wife of AG John Mitchell under Nixon) decided to prove that people on social assistance didn't have it so tough. So, she lived for a whole month on an average welfare payment.Yeah. She could comparison shop in her chauffeur driven car and not account for the gas, or household electricity and she ended the month with a few bucks left over. What an airhead. She didn't take into account dental or medical expenses because she was well provided for under her husband's health plans, covered by tax payers, and the Mouth of the South blandly reported that social assistance payments were more than adequate. Fawk, spare me. I don't know that Democrats are deserting the ObamaCare plan in droves though. That sounds alarmist to this ol' boy. But neither do I think that Democrats are the answer. For sure the Republicans aren't. Democrats used to be the party of working people, but with the new capitalism--read 'the old capitalism run by psychopaths'--I have no idea what the real answer is. IMO, shoot the fuckers and start over, but we know that won't fly. I fully expect the charade to end and that the USA will become a de facto police state before too long. I guess whoever has the most toys will win, and your country will be able to dispense with the play-acting and murder a hundred million or so of its citizens, either under the guise of responding to a natural disaster or one they manufacture. I hope not, but I think so. Keep yer powder dry and take a few with you, because I don't think the re-education camps will emulate a spring picnic. We see similar thinking and have from every administration since. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 May 12 - 01:16 PM Bobert: "Where's the beef??? Ahhhhh, the "PLAN" that you promised???" You must not have understood that lengthy, but entertaining post...a addressed that question....and BTW, YOU demanded, along with Don, that I produce an alternate..and I said when I could, I may...the problem I'm having, in putting this stuff together, is, first, you don't even know what's in the original, to even compare it to..and the second is there is a LOT of stuff in this one, that, though I see the logic in it, a lot doesn't have to do with 'health care'....so let me sort it out, and stop being so pushy. I COULD give you some early observations..but I was going to wait till I read the WHOLE thing, and some supplemental stuff....and ease up...your wonderful Democratic 'representatives' didn't even do as much....and look how LONG it took them!!.....Maybe they were waiting for the highest bidder...I'm not. I just get to do it to listen to chronic whiners, argue about everything they don't know jack-shit about! John P: "I agree, Bobert. GfS and the rest of the right-wing..." I'm not a right winger...but you try to appear as if you are so 'left' wing that you are out of the ballpark, trying to play to the crowd. ..and BTW, in your post, that appears to have been deleted, you called me an 'absolute asshole'.....Excuse me, that's 'MISTER Absolute Asshole' to you, sir! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Bobert Date: 16 May 12 - 10:47 AM Sorry, Sawz, but this thread is about the Affordable care Act... If you wnat to talk about other stuff then please start another thread... BTW, you have just proved John's point... And, yes, John... It would be nice if the the No Party would step to the plate and tell US what their positions really are on health care... But they really don't have any position other then "no, no" and more "no"... Prior to the crafting of this legislation Obama went to the Republican and asked for their input... Guess what he got??? Nothing... Governance is all about policy and one party is will to do the heavy lifting and the the other are just crybaby freeloaders... Don't take Helen Keller to tell which party is witch... This ain't 12 or 16 or 20 years ago... There is definately a major difference now between the parties... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: akenaton Date: 16 May 12 - 10:41 AM I can think of many scenarios where discrimination is not only "right" but imperative. Colour prejudice is not one of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Democrats Bailing out on Obamacare Etc From: Sawzaw Date: 16 May 12 - 10:10 AM "Facts" by Bobert: "The West Bank has the highest density of any place in the Middle East" "When you think of it's size... Ahhhhh, no bigger than the Washington D.C. metropolitan area, it is one very packed and "concentrated" population center..." Distric of Columbia area = 68.2 square miles Population 2006 = 581,530 Density = ? West Bank area = 2263 sq mi population 1,714,845 June 2010 Density = ? Do some math Bobert. You are a highly educaited college graduate aren't you?. |