BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 10:57 AM

Sorry, Gnu, but I ain't a-gonna wade thru a thousand pages of legalese, however germaine or useful. Yep, I own firearms of all types, have been trained to use 'em & practice regularly.

As stated repeatedly by others, the first rational steps would be:

1. To close the Gun Show loophole

2. To strengthen and regularize State laws/regulations across the country (or enact a Fedural Statute to accomplish the same thing) so that some slug can't purchase a handgun in a state like Florida (there are others), where the only requirement is that the purchaser be breathing (and that can be waived upon application) bring it to New York, which has some of the most rational regulations in the country, and shoot someone there.

These changes have been proposed, lobbied & fought for over a period of decades by a number of EXISTING organizations in the U.S.- Here's One - no need for "Mudcatters Against Criminal Stupidity" - to no avail. It ain't the NRA - its the mindless fu*ks that the NRA is able to terrorize - same folks as the Birthers, Flat-Earthers, and the host of other mental deficients that infest the nation.

Some folks - and their numbers are increasing exponentially- are impervious to facts, Gnu, and I wish I knew (or Gnu?) how to address THAT problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:54 AM

Yeah, Amos.... Amazing that all it took to bring back the right-winged "Patriot Movement" was the election of a black president...

This is what this is all about... Hey, these people never ever complained about governemnt spending while Bush was going on a spending spree unparalelled in history... But let a black man become president and it's time for the "revolution"... Might of fact, Obama has cut taxes for 95% of workers yet these same people are pissed off and most would tell you that Obama has raised their taxes... And Obama wants to take yer guns.... And Obama isn't a citizen... And, and, and...

...fucking bigots as far as I can see and now they want to kill people???

Yup, this country is way dumbed-down... Too many ignorant bigots can't get enough of the Big Lie... Reminds me of Germany in the late 30s... Lotta same stuff going down...

To all my progressive friends: like Rap has said, buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:16 AM

Can you paste the whole post, Sawz?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 07:08 AM

Bobert advises people to "buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them...
they are out there preachin' violence"

Is he a spokesperson for the NRA?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 07:52 PM

Bobert:

I am truly sad to hear one of the people I respect the most in this here Café say "Fuck it. No way good people can win."

Glad to hear that I don't have to be bothered trying to help get something done down south TOO. I thought it wasn't that big a challenge but if it's impossible, well, yeah, fuck it. Not a big deal to ME on accounta I live in a country with good (for the most part) gun laws.

********************************************************************

There it is, folks. Done deal. Yankees roll over and let the NRA fuck them up the ass. You antis better pray Dan or I am on the ball when you need us. Of course, Dan is your go-to-guy on accounta he can carry heat 24/7. I can't "carry" because I live in a country with decent gun laws.

Oh... did anyone notice that took TWO posts? Two. 2. Count em... 2 posts and the NRA wins.

Pussies.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:58 PM

Our realiteis are not that clear cut, gn-ze...

You see, our system of government is broken... That means that there is no way to get laws passed that are reasonable and make sense... 9 out of 10 Americans would like for whackos to not beable to get their hands on guns but...

...even so there is no way to get the will of the people into laws...

We are in a pickle with Citizens United, no real campaign finance laws, safe districts and one of the most propagandized populations in the industrial world...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:50 PM

"However, Bruce, you've likely noticed that facts and sense don't signify with a substantial segment of the U.S. population of late."

So, I guess, Greg, you will be on board with my proposed initiative to change that? I assume you are busily studying the Canuck gun laws I linked to above at this very moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 05:10 PM

if one didn't and simply argued with facts and sense

'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd.

However, Bruce, you've likely noticed that facts and sense don't signify with a substantial segment of the U.S. population of late.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 04:17 PM

So... I guess it takes a responsible gun owner who is also an advocate of gun ownership to start the process. I don't really wanna do this but after ten years of these threads that go nowhere, I'd rather TRY to do it than defend and chastise.

Bobert said... "Let's talk."

Okay, let's talk. But, frist, I have a couple of things to say.

Fuck the NRA and (sorry, but... hey?) fuck anyone who says they are idiots who cannot be forced to accept reasonable laws. The next post that says the NRA CANNOT be forced to accept reasonable gun control... I am gone in 60 seconds.

Fuck the antis who say all guns have to go. They are to be ignored and the reasons are obvious to anyone who has read the threads and also has an IQ in double digits.

I see NO reason why the Mudcatters herein cannot begin a dialogue which will lead to getting the job done... unless you are the bunch of pussies I accused you of being. Stand up and DO something about the problem or... yeah, I am gonna say it AGAIN... shut the fuck up.

Now, let's talk. But first, I have a request.

I would like everyone who has posted to this thread and who posts to this thread to read
EVERY FUCKING WORD OF EVERY PAGE FOUND ON THIS LINK.

You can cry foul all day long but if ya can't tell the NRA what yer gonna shove up their ass yer just cluckin and yer gonna get plucked.

So... any readers willin ta read about an excellent (I have some BIG problems with some of the legislation and I know it's gotta be tweaked to get by in the good ol USA but that will come in future discussions) piece of legislation? If so, we can continue talking and marshall the collective resources of Mudcatters to start a movement for responsible gun ownership in the USA. Seriously, Mudcat has everything needed to get the job done except, it SEEMS to me, someone to LEAD the process.

So, if any of you are serious about your concerns, read about legislation in other countries and provide POSITIVE suggestions about how to get the job done instead of weening like a bunch of pussies.

First things first (after you read the links above). The organization's name? "Responsible Gun Ownership USA"? "Mudcatters For Peace In The Streets"... yes, I know it sucks... whaddya got???

As for a website down the road for discussion and getting the word out, ANYone here know ANYthing about websites? Anyone here got any expertise in law, politics, guns, anything related? Anyone know anything about gun laws in their own state that can be added to the new site's data base with regard to how the laws on the books are viewed by the state residents?

Right... I'll stop throwing out comments, ideas, suggestions. Surely after we all have read up and reflected, a proper brainstorming session can be organized.

Second order of business should be selecting a chairman. I suggest someone with... nah, fuck that... I nominate JiK. I would nominate others, including myself, but I think JiK would be a shoe-in simply because he seems intelligent and reasonable. Knows fuckin near everything too but that goes without sayin.

In the end... is ANY antigun nut here in Mudcat willing to put their money where their mouth is and work toward responsible gun ownership in the USA? Or are youse a bunch of weening pussies who don't understand the NRA and their objections to ANY legislation EVEN if they agree with it? Are youse willing to DO something?

IF you are right, FIGHT. If you don't wanna fight, shut the fuck up.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 03:05 PM

Everyone knows the NRA's positions... They shout it from the mountain top... But the NRA can only guess what the other side is saying because they are too busy shouting to hear anything at all so they make up stuff that they think the other side would say even though they really are clueless...

So they argue with themselves so loud that nothing gets in...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 02:52 PM

"Getting the NRA to stand down for a friggin' minute and quit shouting at everyone is that step..."

I fail to see the difficulty. Oh, I see that there would be difficulties if one listened to or read the NRA's pronouncements, but if one didn't and simply argued with facts and sense, then the NRA would cease to be a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 08:43 AM

Like I said, Ol'ster... We first need to change the conversation away from "Shut the heck up, liberals" to "Let's talk"... The longests journey begins with a single step... Getting the NRA to stand down for a friggin' minute and quit shouting at everyone is that step...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 01:15 AM

Just about everybody I talk to says it is a shame nobody in there had a gun to shoot the bastard with.

There will always be a gun for a determined asshole to shoot somebody with even if they have to make it themselves.

Look at the bombers. You can't buy a bomb anywhere I know of. Bombs are illegal as far as I know. The bombers make them. Ask Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers. They are experienced.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 11:00 PM

All of the wounded in New York were shot by police, according to the ballistics reports.
Wacked out police with guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:11 PM

Ahhh but that is the rub as they say right ... how do you stop the wacko's if no one is gonna change any laws to make sense of it all. I wrote letters and emails and so have police and sheriff's depts to try and get the gun show loophole closed .. no elected official has the balls to even discuss it

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:41 PM

Here's the real deal... Yeah, some folks are skilled... Even skilled folks screw up in crowded places... More than likely some of the shooting victims in New York were more than likely shot by the good guys...

I would be perfectly willing to not have the number of skilled guys out there if that is the price we have to pay to get guns out of the hnads of the wackos... I mean, if one olddude without a gun on the street = 100 wackos without guns than it's a no brainer...

We have to start somewhere or we will end up killing off everyone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:30 PM

You point Bill is well taken. I personally do not recommend anyone carrying a weapon unless they are committed to serious training and understand the use laws inside and out. While carrying you are acting as a cop without a badge and unless you have equal or even more training you shouldn't. You will endanger yourself and others. I carry not because I am afraid, I fear nothing never have. I fear Jell-o maybe LOL. I carry because no one is going to hurt some unarmed people or kids on my watch .. I won't allow it. It is like when I am on an airplane. I am not armed but the thousand years of martial arts training, the people around me are just safer and don't know it .

It is a very serious thing to carry a firearm in public, you really do need the training. If a person commits to that and can pass all the background checks .. sure thing you got my support, go ahead and carry

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:56 PM

Let's see, five American Presidents have been shot by nuts with guns, four of them fatally, and two of them within living memory. And there've been a few other attempts.

But [IRONY FOLLOWS] God forbid that we do any more to keep guns away from nuts. It would be *wrong* and a *threat to the freedom granted us by the Creator*! [END OF IRONY].

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:52 PM

Count yourself lucky, Bill... Here in Charlotte the morning news is filled with murder... Every day!!! It's usually 2 or three but every day someone gets murdered... Every day... No shit... Every single day...

Chicago??? Worse than here... 16 the other day... Man, this is insane...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:34 PM

Dan's point 'seems' to be.. "I can't help all the crazy people out there abusing the system, but I can help control the space immediately around myself."

If that is it, he has a certain kind of logic.... but obviously, all the places where we can't deploy Dan clones still make headlines.

MY point is that because we can't clone enough good guys...(and couldn't feed 'em if we cold clone 'em).. we really need some way to reduce guns AND/OR access to guns, 'cause we sure ain't gonna reduce crazy people.

Gnu still notes that "...you antis and you haven't got shit done for YEARS!".... and I agree... but us 'antis' have kept trying. When we depend on useful laws, and politicians who write laws are in hock to the NRA, it's kinda like asking colleges to ban football because kids get hurt- there's just too much money involved from alumni.

Maybe if some buys an AK-47 legally and shoots up the NRA offices?
naawwww... they'd just call that a good example of why they need guns.

Maybe if ........... *sigh* I dunno...

(4-5 shooting incidents around my area (DC metro) every week)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:22 PM

I'm with gn-ze here... More guns out there ain't the answer... Less guns is... It would be so easy to pull off a gun registration without impinging on any law abiding citizen to own guns... It seems that the NRA is perfectly happy with criminals and wackos owning as many guns as they like... The NRA is 100% about selling more and more guns...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:11 PM

Ya ain't helpin things, Dan but I can understand yer frustration. Yer startin ta sound like me... >;)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 06:36 PM

"maybe guns don't kill people, but they make it a damn sight easier"

sure does, never leave home without one anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: redhorse
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 05:27 PM

The hammer story may be hypothetical, but here in UK in 1966 we had two "wacked-out" attacks on schoolchildren:

Dunblane (March)man armed with guns, teacher trying to protect children killed, 16 children killed
Wolverhampton (July)man armed with machete, teacher trying to protect children severely injured, three children injured, man fought off, no fatalities.

maybe guns don't kill people, but they make it a damn sight easier

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 04:25 PM

As I heard it, Bill, it was only a hypothetical incident. The point is that a hammer isn't as dangerous as a gun. (Duh!)

Also, bullets don't kill people either, unless you load them in a gun held by a guy who's trying to kill people.

Bullets would be harmless if guys like that didn't have guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 03:20 PM

Majority rules. The majority are not whacked out. The majority are not scared of the whacked out. The majority are scared of people who think the majority are whacked out and want to impose laws on them that limit their ability to defend themselves.

Another zillion posts to all these threads will not change the fact that logical and reasonable laws regulating gun ownership should have been in place YEARS ago but it CANNOT get done because the anti-gun nuts are neither logical or reasonable in their demands or in their approach.

Yeah... broken record... that's me. BUT, so are you antis and you haven't got shit done for YEARS!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 02:18 PM

Thanks Bill
but if ya clone me, can I have a better back?
:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 12:13 PM

I heard a commentator note that there was an incident where a guy armed with a hammer started hitting bystanders. 5-6 jumped on him and held him down and it was all over.

I think there's a vague point there........

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 10:22 AM

Absolutely right! Guns DON'T kill people. BULLETS kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:55 AM

This bloke in NYC would have caused the same deaths and injuries if he had been armed with a turnip. Because guns don't kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 08:23 AM

Right, redhorse...There is a good chance that some of the folks shot in New York were victims of "trained" friendly fire...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: redhorse
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 05:02 AM

"responsible gun owner" is like "good driver". Everyone believes he's one.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 11:04 PM

No comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 07:17 PM

Well, gee Dan! We'll just clone YOU ... about 25 million times, and put copies of you on patrol in all the cities. That'll fix it!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:30 PM

Well here is the deal, I trust my own shooting cause the city cops sure as hell can't shoot. 11 people injured in the exchange .. cops are suppose to shoot straight and know what is behind the target instead of spray and pray.    Me I trust my own shooting and hopefully never have to.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:08 PM

"A 53-year-old man fired a year ago gunned down a former co-worker outside the Empire State Building in New York Friday morning before he was shot and killed by police, authorities say.

Another nine people were shot or grazed in the gunfire, some of them apparently by police officers, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at a news conference in the middle of Fifth Ave. shortly before noon Friday.

All of the injured are expected to recover, he said."


Seems even training didn't help all that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:06 PM

You bet, Bobert - the hits just keep coming on WNRA !

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 05:19 PM

And the beat goes on in New York and Chicago...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 02:27 PM

"Try defending against that with a concealed pistol."

I'm sorry, Jack, but that doesn't compute. That makes as much sense as opposing fly swatters because they're ineffective against nuclear bombs.

I'm very much for reasonable and intelligent gun laws and stringent requirements that those who wish to own guns must—as a precondition to purchase—be trained in their use and abuse, and then pass periodic examinations.

With the millions of firearms already out and about, the genie is out of the bottle. So especially those who feel it necessary to carry a weapon should be required by law to demonstrate knowledge of proper use and abuse, and competence.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 11:02 AM

I was amazed by one comment in this:

Science Daily on robots for defusing pipe bombs

Thousands of pipe bombs are made each year, and thousands of pipe bomb threats are called into local police and FBI authorities across the country.

I was near one in Pittsburgh in 1976 - it was in the storage tank of a gas station, with two other gas stations on the same intersection. The fourth corner was a multistorey block of sheltered housing for old Jewish people, and I was 50 yards away. If it it had gone off, I and the old Jews would have gone up in the biggest fireball America had seen since Pearl Harbor. It was found and defused; it was part of an extortion campaign and a few other gas stations around the city were targeted.

I thought at the time that that was a wildly aberrant event. But it seems it's absolutely routine, something virtually every urban police force would expect to deal with annually.

Try defending against that with a concealed pistol.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 10:50 AM

by the way, in every state, every police officer is required to qualify on the range with their weapon once a year to prove they are proficient with it and that safety is ensured. A private citizen who carries is more or less a defacto police officer. One should have to maintain their proficiency to continue to carry in public I think

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: olddude
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 10:43 AM

John
Handgun laws are a mish mosh in the US all governed by state law. Without a federal carry standard it will be all over the place. I grew up with guns, I could shoot before I could ride a bike. One thing you never did in our house was go near the "LOCKED" gun case. Like my dad I pull the bolts out of the weapons (rifles) and for handguns I pull the slides and lock them all in a safe. No kid will ever get a firearm in my house. Some states require a handgun to be locked up when not carried. Other states OH well. The definition of responsible is more of common sense ... the first rule of all guns is "treat all guns like they are always loaded" Second is never point at anything you do not wish to destroy. So many injuries have been caused by "unloaded gun"

To hunt in pretty much any state requires a safety course. If one is going to do concealed carry, the standard of safety must be much higher than that of hunting. Sadly that is not the case in many states so a federal standard should be made

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: John P
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 09:44 AM

olddude,
gnu seems unable to do anything other than fulminate. Would you be willing to comment on what it means to be a responsible gun owner and whether or not we should have laws that require responsibility? I've heard what you've had to say about yourself on the subject, and if all gun owners were like you I'd sleep better at night. What I'm interested in exploring is what, if anything, to do about the gun owners who are not like you.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:34 AM

"So, I'll put in the "no training needed" column."

The first words out of your mouth are, simply, inane and the last words are worse. Dunno why I bothered to open this thread again except that I now know fer sure I needn't bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: John P
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 11:16 PM

So, I'll put in the "no training needed" column. How does that keep idiots from doing ignorant things with guns? Why shouldn't we take steps to help protect ourselves from people who are carrying deadly implements without knowing how to use them?

Why in the world should I start an organization? Should I also start one to stop war, stop capitalism, stop poverty, stop prohibition, stop money in politics, stop discrimination? What's wrong with talking about a problem and exploring the issues?

Speaking of which, does it fit within your definition of a responsible gun owner to allow children to have unsupervised access to a gun?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 06:26 PM

"gnu, olddude, do you think that having thorough training is part of the definition of being a responsible gun owner? Should we require it? Taken from the other side, is it irresponsible to not require gun owners to be trained in the safe use of guns?"

Sorry, bud but I gotta take an "Oh, fuck me, here we go again." on this one. And, the subsequent posts.. gee whilikers eh??? It's been done a thousand times and you antis just keep yappin and you just keep doin nothin... squat... shit about it. I challenge any of you to start an org to get something done. I'll be an advisor... Dan will probably volunteer likewise... there are many RESPONSIBLE gun owners here who don't need a fucking definition of who they are to help out getting the problem solved. Just seems nobody wants to do anything more than ween about it and shit on responsible gun owners... and you had better think about that before any of you say you are just shitting on irresponsible gun owners because, if you do, you haven't understood any of my posts... or even READ them.

I gotta try to just leave this thread before my head explodes... BUT before I do TRY... no guns allowed to be stored or carried within a mile of a school or in public parks or on public transportation??? That is way beyond a "Fuck me, are you serious?" Do you think for one minute the NRA can't shut you down / shit all over you for that? And not just because of what Lighter so aptly stated.

Sorry for being so upset and venting but I have been trying to educate people on both sides of this issue here in Mudcat for ten years or so and at least ten years before that in my area. It's a serious problem that will get worse but proposing illogical and counter-productive gun laws will NEVER EVER fly. If any of you ever read back through my and others' posting history on this subject you will come to understand that there are good gun laws and bad gun laws. A buddy of mine lost his head over a bad gun law. Lost his head. A guy cut off his head with a sword. I shant explain... look it up... it's "in the threads".

The NRA is not more powerful than logic so don't spew illogical crap. It hasn't worked yet. Try something reasonable.

One last time... stop weening and do something about the problem. This continuous bullshit is enough to make my head explode.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 04:38 PM

> No guns within a mile of a school.

Impossible. That way a registered gun owner could be arrested and convicted even if he had no idea he was within a mile of a school.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 01:53 PM

John, you said you'd like to know the definition of a "responsible gun owner"?

Well, it seems obvious to me. A responsible gun owner, like a responsible automobile owner, is someone who has the sense not to use his gun or car (or anything else he owns) in an irresponsible and/or unlawful or harmful manner. Period. And most gun owner and car owners, by that definition, are responsible people most of the time.

My Uncle Bill, for example, was a responsible gun owner. He always had quite an interest in guns, in target practice, and in duck hunting. He always owned a few guns. He enjoyed them as precision and historical instruments (appreciating the craft that went into making them, the level of quality of different ones, the history of that craft, etc). He enjoyed being a good marksman. He enjoyed hunting.

He lived in the country, and like many other rural people back then (and still now), he was used to being around guns a certain amount. They would not have struck him as an unusual thing to have, because when he was growing up they weren't an unusual thing to have when you lived on farms or in the country. These were long guns, not handguns.

He was a completely gentle and harmless person, patient and tolerant, kind, responsible, law-abiding, not a person who ever committed a violent act against another person in his entire adult life. He was a really nice man.

He kept his guns responsibly and safely, made sure that they were not loaded or in any way accessible to his children (2 daughters), and he handled them with the utmost care at all times to avoid endangering himself and others.

A good number of ducks met their end because of my Uncle's interest in guns, and I'm sorry for the ducks, but I can't fault him for being a duck hunter. It's not a crime.

My Uncle eventually passed away having never once misused a gun or broken the law with a gun.

There are a great many other people like my Uncle living quietly all over the place. You don't hear about them on the "News" (the entertainment, fear, and propaganda network)....because they didn't shoot anyone.

Those are responsible gun owners. They probably outnumber irresponsible gun owners by about 5,000 to 1...but the only people you will ever hear about on the "News" are the few unstable and disturbed individuals and the people in drug gangs who go out and commit a violent crime.

Are there some legal improvements that could be made to increase public safety? Sure. And people here have suggested quite a number of them...but demonizing gun owners in general and stereotyping them in a perceived group together as "gun nuts" does not lead to any kind of useful public discussion...and it reinforces conservative organizations like the NRA by making them think that "the liberals" are all just a bunch of crazy people, extreme control freaks suffering from an obsessive complex of some kind. When you stereotype them...they stereotype you! This doesn't help anyone.

I say this AS someone who is definitely a liberal, and I always have been. But I'm not a control freak over other people's lives and over their lifestyle choices and their hobbies. If they don't break the laws and if they don't harm anyone, I have no quarrel with them...nor do I expect them to "be like me or see like me". (line from Bob Dylan in the song "All I Really Want To Do")

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:50 PM

After "deep breaths, calm down, think of nice things like oranges" I thought you were going to break into the song entitled 'Suzanne'. I was going to ask you for one of the sharp and pointy implements and directions for which way is east.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Stu
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:40 PM

I'm starting a campaign for people to be allowed to carry big fuckoff knives (like a machete or a Gurkha's), halberds, pikestaffs, knives like wot Rambo has, saxon battle-axes, flicknives, maces and any type of sword. They are to be allowed in cinemas, restaurants and boozers or anywhere else people congregate for reasons social, commercial, political or religious. To be allowed to carry one of these deadly weapons you need two things:

1) Tell the bloke behind the desk you're not mad, a loony or a reet nutter and he'll give you a piece of paper confirming this.

2) Have access to an internet connection and credit (to purchase said deadly weapon with).

Now this might seem a tad irresponsible, but hear me out. Firstly, remember that claymore swords don't kill people, people with claymore swords do. It's all fine and dandy blaming the person, but if the bloke behind the desk thinks they're all right, not schizophrenic, delusional (politicians and religious types exempt), insane, have hairy palms or are bipolar, clinically depressed or even a bit glum (cos those people are mad, right?) then that means everything is tickety-boo. Only us happy, sane people will be allowed to carry a Ninja sword (we know who were don't we?).

In 1511, Henry VIII (a king of England) banned games (such as football) which interfered with archery practice, which commoners (that's us) were obliged by law to attend every Sunday. This law has never been repealed (true). It was put on the statute books so should those pesky French get too leery and attempt another invasion this time we would be ready for the buggers.

Obviously we can't all carry longbows to defend ourselves against the ever-looming threat of French invasion (I do own one though, a Bickerstaffe) as it isn't practical, so I think it's safe to assume this law will let us carry sharp or pointy things about instead for our defence; in all honesty, the law obviously allows that and to deny ordinary citizens that right is unEnglish, undemocratic and downright dangerous in this day and age. I mean, there are people out there who ALREADY HAVE SHARP, POINTY THINGS. Scary or WHAT!!!!!

We need protection and the peelers don't have the time (or inclination) to protect us all so let's honour Henry VIII (an Anglo-Welsh King born in Sarf London) and if you don't you obviously don't care about our country you effin' commie traitor . . . (deep breaths, calm down, think of nice things like oranges). Apologies. Got a bit heated there.

So it's only fair we should be allowed to carry lethal, sharp weapons where we want, and if out broadsword take out the eye of the lady behind us in the flicks when we sit down (having not secured it properly - we're only human you know), then tough titties, at least she's free! Chop off a kiddie's ear with a trailing sabre? Unlucky - it was an accident and it would have happened had we not been carrying our rapier. Fools!

We'll show the soft sods. We need protection from the sword-wielding madmen besieging our towns, running rampant down our city streets or even peeing in our bogs. The king that outlawed our main religion, destroyed a wodge of our written heritage and demolished thousand-year-old monasteries says we should be armed as a people, so there. It is written.

Now that's 21st Century freedom we're talking about!