BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 12:28 PM

"It's not really like that."

It might well be, but is that relevant? Not to the people of Aurora it isn't. Even if violent crime is declining, this obsession with guns and violence is insane, confusing and regressive. It's almost as if US society has settled for the occasional slaughter of the innocents (fast response units everywhere) so a few diehards can cling onto outdated and outmoded ideals formed when the world was a very different place.

I realise none of our politicians have much in the way of backbone, but surely the time has come for someone to step up and tackle this utter lack of perspective guns seem to induce in reasonable, sane people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 12:17 PM

I'm fascinated by the thought that gunshot suicides are not "Whacked out nutjobs with guns".

I'm equally fascinated by the mindset that equates sex, on the one hand and violence on he other. Repeat after me: "Sex is good, violence is bad".

One part of this is very simple. No guns results in no deaths by gunshot. It isn't rocket science.

The other part is to question why so many people (largely men) seem to see violence and guns as desirable and necessary - even perhaps part of the phallocracy. See my second paragraph above.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 12:06 PM

Sugarfoot Jack-It's not really like that. If you look at the numbers, violent crime, including homicide(both with and without firearms) in both the US and UK has actually declined substantially. Nobody wants to believe it, but it's true.

Eliza--There are a lot of films great films around that are not filled with horror and gross violence. New ones, at that. I am sorry that the selection at Asda was so bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:52 AM

In the UK, a weapons amnesty, combined with a threat of severe punishment after the deadline, took most of the unlicensed guns out of circulation and many licensed guns too. [...]
I realise that it will be more difficult in the USA, but if it isn't at least tried, the end result will be a nation of frightened citizens, afraid to leave their fortified (with the very weapons they are scared of) homes.

A national legislated solution obviously isn't going to happen in the US. Ever.

It might not be obviously legal to do anything more local either, but a more realistic approach would be for local communities sick of guns and their pervert owners to tell them to get out. If it caught on, that would progressively leave the gun fetishists confined to their own "free" enclaves until they killed each other off in paroxysms of indiscriminate fear.

The US is great at sloganizing about local democracy and then making sure it never makes any difference to anything, so that's not a whole lot easier, but surely worth trying, despite shit like that recent University of Colorado decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:40 AM

Bobert and Eliza: thanks for the responses. It's nice talking to you.

As for violent movies, etc, keep in mind that they can't get into your life unless you let them. They're just commerce.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 11:30 AM

From the UK it is like watching some insane, tragic, mad, ultra violent film where slowly everyone becomes armed, more and more innocents get killed in the crossfire and the entire country seems to degenerate into a madhouse. Damn, you got some good people there who really don't deserve this, and I don't like the idea of my friends living in a society that only sees more guns as the answer to gun ownership and the crime it allows to occur.

More guns are NOT the answer. Please see sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:33 AM

leeneia, I wondered the same thing, how did he afford all that stuff, and how did he obtain it? And how did his mental illness extend so far? I also agree with Lizzie, the films themselves are getting more and more violent and evil, they must be influencing young people's view of the world. Just today, we went to Asda as I wanted to buy my husband a DVD (he's just passed his driving test). We looked at all the films, but they were nearly all horror or grossly violent. It really struck us how horrible the selection was. We need (on both sides of the Pond) to get to grips with the dangerous downward slide of our society into violence and uncontrolled acting-on-impulse. It really, really wasn't like this twenty or so years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:31 AM

""One hard, cold fact; if they stopped making guns today, there are still over 300 million of them in circulation. Would anyone care to address that?""

It could be done, at least with the law abiding majority.

In the UK, a weapons amnesty, combined with a threat of severe punishment after the deadline, took most of the unlicensed guns out of circulation and many licensed guns too.

It also cleared a lot of other weapons from Boy Scout sheath knives to machetes, nun-chucks, Samurai swords etc. etc.

I realise that it will be more difficult in the USA, but if it isn't at least tried, the end result will be a nation of frightened citizens, afraid to leave their fortified (with the very weapons they are scared of) homes.

More and more I thank the providence by which I was born in the UK.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:09 AM

""In a unanimous decision, the State Supreme Court backed the appeals court. CU now must join Colorado State University in allowing students to carry licensed concealed weapons on campus, Manley said.

"My clients are extremely happy," said Manley. "They will now be able to exercise their constitutional rights to carry on campus."""

There it is folks! The lunatics are now in charge of the f**king funny farm by State Supreme Court decree.

Better change that line in your anthem to "Gawd help America"!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 10:07 AM

Homicide rates...

Do you read for content, Stimz, 'er what???

Go back and reread... It won't take 20 seconds...

BTW, Ol-ster and I have gone a few rounds in the past on this issue... He knows exactlt what my positions are... This is about the 2 millionth thread here in Mudville on gun control over that last 10 or so years...

BTW, Part B... Ol-ster is on record of supporting laws that would shut down the gun-show loophole and re1quire licensung of handguns... That's not as far as BillD goes but it's one heck of a lot closer to BillD's positions than the NRAers... I'm firmly in BillD's court on handguns...

That has been my position going back decades...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:54 AM

And, Bobert, with due respect, if you really care about the proliferation of guns, why haven't you said a single word to "Old Dude",   who has announced that he is in the process of arming his children and giving them commando training?

You can't do much about the NRA, or" the politicians" or any of the others that you are so fond of complaining about, but, if you cared to bother, maybe you could talk some sense into "Old Dude".

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:46 AM

"The figures on the page you linked to say that the US murder rate is now half what it was in 1980. Which may not be any sort of evidence that gun control legislation did anything, but it does say that there isn't an uncontrolled epidemic of violence requiring everybody to tool up."

That's exactly right, Jack. The figures show that today the homicide rate is even lower than it was in 1960.   Very much to the disappointment, I am afraid, of both sides in the "gun control" debate.

And Bobert, what exactly is bogus about the homicide statistics published in the New York times in 1911? And do you even understand why I posted them?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:12 AM

Yo GUEST,

Homicides per 100K in 1911 is a bogus stat... A lot more people would have died from gunshot wounds back then because of primitive medical care...

The real stat is "gun-shot victims per 100K"...

Yo leeneia,

Mental illness is a strange critter... Mentally ill doesn't mean stupid or incompetent... I can't speculate on this wacko other than to, at least for now, have him firmly in the center of wacko-world... BTW, I was a social worker for many years (adult services) and carried an average of 40 clients at any given time that came from Central State Hospital in Petersburg, Va which was a mental health facility... So excuse my politically incorrectness... I never wrote stuff like that in client files but, truth be known??? My 6 co-workers and I used them in the privacy of our office... Kinda MASH talk...

We'll just have to see how this one plays out but I don't see any motive that would get this guy outta wacko-world...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 09:05 AM

Here is the deal, all sensible and existing gun laws are negated by the personal sale loophole. IE Gunshows, internet, ads etc. You can in Colorado contact someone on craigslist, meet them, give them cash and walk away with an AR or Glock ... all legal ...

so until someone addresses that, forget it, you have no gun laws. You wonder why the crazies are so well armed. That's why. Anyone in NY or CA that has a concealed carry permit is just fine with me. It is so hard to get, the background checks are so through that I have no issues at all

But alas, that ain't the case is it .. when you can order one from the net or walk in a gun show.

Me I will arm my kids. they already have more training then most Marines.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 08:48 AM

There was an USAmerican woman who had lived in London 20 years on a radio phone-in this morning. A Republican. It is, apparently, necessary to have guns to defend against the government when it is not Republican, because Obama has removed freedoms from citizens. Despite frequent questioning, the only such law she could cite was one to limit the amount of ammunition one could buy.

She said that, when in the States, she had kept a liquor store, and had shot someone attempting to rob it. The radio guy expressed that he was glad she was not able to carry a gun over here, and she responded with the thought that she would be a danger to those she disagreed with if she did - in a colloquial way.

I was left wondering why she was here.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 08:38 AM

I have no problem with her carrying. what was hypocritical was saying that no one but police should carry a weapon ..

I accept that from many people entitled to their opinion, but give up your permit if you truly believe that. My only point

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 08:34 AM

Why not ban the movies, or at least TONE THEM RIGHT DOWN....

Insatiable, disturbing violence fills the heads of so many children these days, YOUNG children, tiny children, with innocent minds, pretty much 'empty minds' just waiting to be filled with information about this world they've arrived in...

We used to fill their minds with Childhood, but now it's filled with Violence and Sex...

Most children struggle through *somehow* and don't grow up to start re-enacting their video games or their favourite films...

Many children, thankfully, still grow up in countries where bottles of perfume are kept beside the bed, rather than guns..

But SOME children grow up where guns are as natural as breathing, where violent movies are what you watch whilst munching the popcorn, absorbing all the special effects, the blood, the gore, the ripped bodies, the deaths, the evil etc...and some of those children will take the films/video games they are watching absolutely 100% literally....and one day, they will *explode*

There are many such Ticking Time-Bombs 'out there' folks, thousands, and ever-increasing...

Add to this the stresses and strains that many people are under now, which is going to get a LOT worse, and things will be 'snapping' far more than before..

I'm lucky, I live in a country where most people wouldn't ever dream of having a gun, where it is alien to do so, but gangs, criminals etc, are on the increase and the violence in many cities is worse then it has been in the past...But on the whole, the UK is NOT a place where the average person carries a weapon...

From the day the Chinese invented gunpowder TROUBLE was brewing...Since that time millions have lost their lives because of bloody guns..in wars, in hatred, in minds that don't think along 'normal' lines...

But just tell me, even though this man obviously has such a mind, what other kinds of minds apathetically accept the growing violence infiltrating their children's minds every single day, without question, without comment, without worry?

We are in DEEP shite folks, all around the world and the time truly has come to WAKE UP.....


Dan, I'm very thankful your daughter made it through. Much love to her, to you and to all other parents/families affected by yet another tragic tragedy...

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 06:54 AM

Egg on face... wooops... it's Borowitz...

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 06:48 AM

OK, the headline you have been waiting for. After a mass-shooting at a film theatre, the NRA's solution to our violence problems, folks:

Ban the MOVIES.

When that flashed up on my screen I thought for sure it was from The Daily Mash or some other spoof site. But no. It's from The New Yorker. (The "Romney Claims Dog Ate Tax Returns For Three Years" is pretty good too.)

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2012/07/nra-proposes-sweepi

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 05:21 AM

When you look at how hard ordinary artists work without getting fair recognition for their work - Bruce Murdoch being a good case in point. Everybody who has listened knows the guys is terrific and his songs are beautiful - but no one important in the media writes about his work.

You can see there is an incentive to do a mark chapman - you get the book deal, the film about your life, the attention from society.....

I hate the idea of capital punishment - but I suppose at least Tim McVeigh didn't get to enjoy his notoriety. Mind you a lot of tese guys seem untroubled by the idea of death - many of them end the episode by turning the gun on themselves. So I suppose the capital punishment is really just surrendering to base motives within ourselves.

Like the Norwegian President said - we should not let these characters turn US into monsters.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 04:55 AM

To further clarify my original statement, which I stand by, is that the homicide rate jumped after 1960, when it was 5.1 per 100k, to 10.2 per 100k in 1980. US Crime Statistics 1960-2010

The Gun Control Act of 1968 was a reaction to an increase in gun related homicides, as embodied in the assassinations, which most of us remember. If you care to look at the numbers, you will note that it didn't seem to have done much good

The figures on the page you linked to say that the US murder rate is now half what it was in 1980. Which may not be any sort of evidence that gun control legislation did anything, but it does say that there isn't an uncontrolled epidemic of violence requiring everybody to tool up.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 03:01 AM

"Hate to break it to you Bobster but Senator Feinstein has a rarely issued concealed carry permit from San Diego, she packs a lady smith .38 cal ... that is on public record ... so kinda hypocritical I think"

Hypocritical for her to say background checks should be stricter and apply everywhere? Hypocritical for her to say people should not have assault weapons with 100 round magazines?

I have no problem with responsible people, reasonably vetted, carrying an appropriate weapon.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 02:42 AM

That 11:06pm was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 02:31 AM

Hey, bobert. I've got a question for you. I was reading today about the Colorado shooter, James Holmes. His apartment was rigged with so many booby traps that they had to send in a robot first.

He had 6,000 rounds of ammo - and no income.

He went into the theater dressed in complicated defensive clothing.

My question is, how can a person go crazy so ELABORATELY? You know what I mean? How could he be so nuts and handle so many complicated things at the same time?

I find this sort of thing very troubling. We've always had insanity, but...

Nothing was said about finding drugs or paraphernalia of any kind in the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jul 12 - 01:13 AM

Hope this is a simple question?

It looks like some people are advocating for people to carry firearms into the.atres/cinemas to defend themselves, or if an event like this happens again, the number of casualties would be reduced?

Lets imagine there are, say, 10,000 theatres/cinemas x say 360 days per year x say 20 carrying a concealed firearm.

That come to 72,000,000 firearms concealed over 1 year.

WIll that really make theatres safer?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 11:06 PM

Greg F--sorry to be so long in responding. I checked your link, and it led to a page filled with other links rather than the information that you were referring to.

I did a search of my own, and found this article, from the New York Times,Homicide Record for 1911 , which said that the homicide rate was higher than at any time in America's past, and gave it as 7.2 per 100k.

To further clarify my original statement, which I stand by, is that the homicide rate jumped after 1960, when it was 5.1 per 100k, to 10.2 per 100k in 1980. US Crime Statistics 1960-2010

The Gun Control Act of 1968 was a reaction to an increase in gun related homicides, as embodied in the assassinations, which most of us remember. If you care to look at the numbers, you will note that it didn't seem to have done much good.

Current and recent statistics on homicides, firearms related and other, can be accessed here. CDC Injury and Death Statistics and you can break them our in lots of different ways.

If you do, you will discover that though the current number of firearms related deaths is about 30k, the number of homicides is about 11k. The other 19k are suicides, which, to be fair, cannot be considered random shootings by wacked out guys with guns.

Another fact that you can find, if you want to, is that about 5,500 of those homicides involve an identifiable demographic group that comprises only about 5% of the population. I am not going to mention which one, because, frail soul that I am, I don't want to be called any more names.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:40 PM

Hey, if she needs protection and then I understand that... She is a controversial "liberal" senator in a right winged wacko nation... Smart...

If I were a senator, I'd pack heat, too... Too many wacko righties out there with guns...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:30 PM

Hate to break it to you Bobster but Senator Feinstein has a rarely issued concealed carry permit from San Diego, she packs a lady smith .38 cal ... that is on public record ... so kinda hypocritical I think

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:14 PM

Don... huh??? I thought I addressed that in my last post. Not quite at the length you just did, but I thought I was fairly clear in my intent.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 09:03 PM

Doesn't much matter, Q... This ain't a "Ah-ha, gotcha moment"... My observation of the the recent "Citizens United" decision has "oberta dictum" (or whatever spelling you like) written all over it where the court went beyond the issues of the case, much like a legislature, to expand law...

The "oberta" means, if memory serves me correct, means "over"...

No matter, it has no bearing on what we are talking about here... Yes, the court has been "liberal" (loose constructionism) in pushing politically conservative positions...

Very strange... Must be the season of the wit0ch...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 08:42 PM

See your handy-dandy legal dictionary- obiter dictum, pl. obiter dicta.

But we need more than remarks in passing from the U.S. courts.

I own one firearm, on which I just renewed my permit with the Canadian firearms registry.

We would hope that the U.S. can gain some control over its firearms, but I am afraid that is a lost cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 08:26 PM

I don't read blogs... My spelling might not be great but I learned about "oberta dicta" or "dictum" in college... My first degree is, after all, in history and poli-sci...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 08:22 PM

Obiter dicta (pl.). (There is a blog on the net that makes the error, 'oberta' dicta).

Estimates of more than 200,000,000 guns (U.S. government figures) seem to be valid.
How can the numbers be reduced? Can the semi-automatics be outlawed?

Sadly, I don't see any improvement in the forseeable future.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 08:13 PM

Okay, gnu, if push comes to shove, what I favor is this:

Before the law would allow me to take a ton-and-a-half of automobile out on the streets and roads—keeping in mind that someone who does not know how to drive an automobile can do a lot of damage and potentially kill a lot of people before he finally runs into a tree—I was required to get a drivers' license.   This was not issued to me until I had taken a written test to show that I knew the traffic laws, and then had taken a drive with a state patrol licensing official, armed with a clip board and pen, at my side as he told me to do certain things such as parallel park, and enter and exit a freeway, and a whole bunch of other things while he wrote notes on the clipboard.

After the drive, he noted that all was well, except that when I parallel parked, I had to take two runs at it because on the first one, I had scrubbed a tire against the curb. Not a fatal flaw in my driving skill, but still noted as a bit sloppy. So I was issued a license, which allowed me to herd a potentially dangerous ton and a half of metal around the city and elsewhere.

When I bought my two handguns, there was no check as to my criminal record, my sanity, or even if I knew which end of the gun the bullets came out of.

When I got my concealed weapons permit down at City Hall, I had to fill out a form. Name, address, the usual stuff. Nothing about criminal record or state of sanity. Or skill with a firearm.

One of the blanks on the form asked why I wanted to carry a concealed firearm. I really didn't have any specific reason. I wasn't responsible for transferring a briefcase full of money or jewelry from place to place or anything where I really needed the protection of packing heat. When the clerk saw me pondering over that line, he said, "Oh, most people just put in 'sport and travel.'" So that's what I wrote down. Then I shucked out $5.00 and he issued me the permit.

If I'm required to pass a written test and an "in the field" test before I am issued a license to drive—on the basis that the law wants to be sure I won't drive through crowd, kill a lot of people, and come to rest by driving through a plate glass window into a crowded grocery store, I don't see why I am not required to pass a similar test before being allowed to own and carry a device with which I can easily kill or main people with the mere twitch of my index finger.

I think we can do a bit better than that, don't you?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 07:44 PM

Yo, Gn-ze... So far the only politician that I know of that has come out today against the NRA "with balls" is Senator Feinstein... Go figure...

BTW, I somewhat agree with Lighter on the Supreme Court's interpretation... It is well within the confines of "loose constructionism"... The problem here is that in doing so it throws a bone to "conservatives"???

That's the way this court is... It will bounce between "strict" and "loose" construction interpretations of the Constitution and Bill of Rights... 100% politics and 0% honest interpretation...

And way too much oberta dicta, especially from Scalia...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 06:51 PM

Let me refer latecomers to my post of 1:06 p.m.

The Second Amendment is syntactically ambiguous. The Supreme Court has preferred the "liberal" interpretation.

If you don't believe me, read the post.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 06:45 PM

Analyst on today's "Meet the Press":

"It is absolute orthodoxy within the Democratic Party that they lost the 1994 elections because of [Pres. Clinton's'] ban on assault rifles," which has since been repealed.

Get the picture? Americans want their assault rifles!

Someone added emphatically: "There will *never* be another gun control law passed by the U.S. Congress."

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 06:07 PM

""Go on and on ranting and pointing fingers at the NRA, rednecks and the wild, wild west metality of the U.S.A.

Toronto gun violence rages as politicians debate solutions""

Here's another delicious non sequitur, devoid of logic.

An incident described as the worst in Toronto's history, which frankly wouldn't qualify as one of the top 100 in the US in the last twenty years, is used to imply that everything in the US is just hunky dory and the NRA is a responsible organisation with the welfare of law abiding citizens as its first priority.

Yeah right!

In addition, the moon is made of green cheese, Santa is alive and well and abusing elves in Lapland, and money doesn't enter into the NRA's thinking when they promote a two gun society that didn't even exist in the time of William Bonney.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:43 PM

Well said, A. Y'all need some GOOD gun laws. But, first, ya need some politicians with balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:42 PM

The NRA's argument is that we (private citizens) are the militia intended in the Second Amendment. If they really believe this, then they should have no problem being well-regulated. If they do not wish to be well-regulated, then they have no protection under the Second Amendment, since it clearly defines its rational as being for the purpose of a well-regulated militia.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:42 PM

P.S.

That motley crew may be needed to defend innocent people from the militia (National Guard) when it ain't so "well-regulated"... Kent State kinda shit eh? Or, say, defend the rights of oppressed minorities... seems to me I heard something about a group of people, mostly in the southern states, who bore arms at one time to gain better treatment and step toward equality with whites.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:34 PM

Don... "The whole point of allowing the citizenry to "keep and bear arms" is in order to be able to form a "well regulated militia" should the need arise."

That sentence means to me that you are cool with the citizenry being allowed to keep and bear arms should the need for the use of those arms arise. Well, that is exactly what they are doing.

Don't get me wrong. I am more on your "side" than you seem to understand at times but if yer gonna cite the fact that you know what sentences written by others mean in an exact sense, read your own before you post them whilst talking down to people. It does not suit you.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 05:12 PM

The point I'm making, which I hope came across, is that a motley collection of gun owners all over the country do not and never would constitute a "well regulated militia."

The National Guard is a well regulated militia. And the military in general is a well regulated militia. So--why do we need everyone to wander around armed to the teeth, when they are more likely to shoot each other or shoot themselves in the foot than they are to be able to defend the country in times of crisis?

Don Firth

P. S. Oh, sure! If Obama tries to arrest you and send you to Guantanamo, if you have your rusty, dusty, trusty hawgleg, you can fight back.

Well, lotsa luck with that!

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:49 PM

"It doesn't take an English grammar professor to understand that sentence."

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:48 PM

Somebody seems to be claiming to be able to read the minds of even a larger and more diverse group of dead men, while insisting that they were all in accord when any basic knowledge of the history indicates that they were not all in agreement and that they realized, as a group, probably with some disagreement, that they were not psychic soothsayers like yourself and allowed for judicial review.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:47 PM

The whole point of allowing the citizenry to "keep and bear arms" is in order to be able to form a "well regulated militia" should the need arise.

It doesn't take an English grammar professor to understand that sentence.

No, scratch that! Obviously, it does!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:41 PM

Somebody seems to be confuseing the Framers of the Constitution with the Founding Fathers.

The latter is a much more broad term that dates back only to early 20th Century and include a variety of people up to and including James Monroe.

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:33 PM

Yup, Ol'ster... The Mayor of New York City has made it perfectly clear that he'd be more than happy to see the Commonwealth of Virginia quit being the arms dealer for New Yorkers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:30 PM

AURORA, CO - Authorities in the Colorado movie theater massacre found an AR-15 rifle drum magazine Friday capable of carrying 100 rounds .

Can you imagine what that weapon would have done to a platoon of redcoats standing in formation to fire staggered volleys? Can you imagine even a single shooter also armed with to Glocks and shot gun with body armor and a Kevlar helmet losing that exchange.

Even as smart as the founding fathers were, can you say with a straight face that they anticipated such weapons and meant for them to be as easy to purchase, hide, resell and transport as they are now?

Subject: RE: BS: Another wacked out guy with a gun....
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Jul 12 - 04:10 PM

well my kids grew up with weapons and can shoot and know how to shoot and know their way around them. Now I want them to carry ... no one else has to follow that plan but I am comfortable with it.