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BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying
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Subject: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Raptor Date: 15 Oct 12 - 09:05 AM Have you seen the Facebook memorial ? There are people on it actually still bullying her after death saying that she deserved to die. This is out of hand. The police are going after those who post now but the family have to read this stuff on her tribute page. I've seen cyber-bullying here too with threats of going the full twelve rounds (implied violence) and relentless insults. Hopefully we're all adults here and can tell the difference between stuff written in the heat of anger in argument but you never can tell what someone's state of mind is. So to that I say... If I've offended anyone here I'm truly sorry. If I have in fact pissed anyone off send me a PM and allow me to give you a personal apology. The CBC this morning likened the Internet for kids like lord of the flies in that there is virtually no adult supervision. This is why the bullies get away with their antics. Any other opinions? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Henry Krinkle Date: 15 Oct 12 - 09:09 AM They can dish it out, but they just can't take it. (:-( ))= |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 15 Oct 12 - 09:32 AM For what it's worth, Raptor, I personally think you are an OK member of Mudcat. Given, perhaps, to rougher joshing than I would engage in, but basically OK. Does that help any? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Henry Krinkle Date: 15 Oct 12 - 09:35 AM Nobody bothers me much here, even though they've tried really hard to. (:-( P)= |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Richard Bridge Date: 15 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM Two separate issues here. I don't plan to go down the "some victims are asking for it" route or it's relative "I'm harder than you". Then comes the supervision point. Max has previously espoused the view that the anonymity of the internet is core to its benefit to society. It is however the gateway to bullying trolling and stalking. IMHO ISPs should be obliged automatically to give up the real ID (or as much information as they can get tending to ID) any user unless a sensible defence like the public interest in rational or political debate can be shown. That way any victim could identify and sue his cowardly anonymous bullies. Right now it's the other way round, but charities are starting good work in the arena. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: ranger1 Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM Funny this subject should come up this AM... I'm currently the target of a rather nasty troll on the gaming website I blog on because I wrote a blog targeting his actions and the inaction of the mods in dealing with him. I named no names and pointed out that his nasty behavior had gotten worse after someone else took the bait. After I wrote that blog, I finally found the contact info for the mods and emailed them. His account and ISP were banned, but he goes elsewhere and posts nasty comments on all my blog entries now. He's harmless and I'm not commenting back; I just forward the nastiness on to the mods, they re-ban him, and the dance starts all over again. I'm more amused than anything else at the lengths he's been taking this to and all the effort he's been putting into it. I'm just glad it's me he's venting his spleen on and not someone who might take it more seriously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Raptor Date: 15 Oct 12 - 01:14 PM Thanks Leeneia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 15 Oct 12 - 01:58 PM There's a petition out there now calling for the arrest of those who bullied this poor girl. I can't get it to link in here, sadly. It's on the 'Causes' site, under the title of 'Arrest Cyber Bullies Responsible for Amanda Todd's Death' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 15 Oct 12 - 02:08 PM Amanda's Video |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Oct 12 - 02:16 PM Looking back to how relentless the bullying at my school was when I was there in the 50s and 60s, I shudder to think how much worse it would have been if they'd had the internet back then. I don't think kids have actually changed that much...but the technology has changed dramatically, and it allows new forms of stalking and harassment that didn't exist when we were youngsters...and under cover of anonymity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 15 Oct 12 - 03:20 PM You're welcome, Raptor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Oct 12 - 03:43 PM There's also easier access now through the Internet to all kinds of really weird stuff...both positive and negative stuff. On the negative end, that's got to be causing a few problems. Remember when you only dealt with people you knew face-to-face? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:45 PM LH - In the few cases of bullying I encountered in the "good old days" it was sometimes more like "face to fist" than "face to face," but I agree with your point. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:29 AM There was some physical bullying, yes. But there was also verbal bullying of all kinds. It was mostly the latter that was a problem in the schools I went to. The objective is to humiliate people and shut them out in various ways. Both girls and boys did quite a bit of that to anyone they considered vulnerable...and it sometimes hurts people a lot worse in the long run than physical assaults do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Megan L Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:25 AM "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" whoever wrote that was a liar words cut deeper than any knife. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: MGM·Lion Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:37 AM Like most proverbs, though, it is contradicted by another ~~ "The pen is mightier than the sword". I agree with your point, Megan; it is the constant wearing insults and exclusion to outsider-status which drive some children, like this one, to desperation. Peer-approval, or at least tolerance, is essential to most, and its complete and universal withdrawal a disaster. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Henry Krinkle Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:42 AM If you give those people a taste of their own medicine you'll never hear anyone scream and cry louder. (:-( O)= |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Raptor Date: 16 Oct 12 - 08:41 AM I once heard some ask a group of people who was punched as a child by someone and most put up thier hands He asked people to keep thier hands up if they remembered who hit them all hands dropped. He then asked who had been called a name all hands up.Then who remembers the name ALL hands stayed up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 09:32 AM Ubelievable. We have a lot of sick young people out there, because of the society that we have allowed to be created. Their minds are filled with nasty stuff... Video made to abuse Amanda, after her death |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 09:36 AM If you want to break up a society or a culture, separate the children as much as possible from the adults in their lives. TVs and computers work well. Amanda Todd is the latest in a string of such stories, and unfortunately she won't be the last. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 16 Oct 12 - 10:18 AM I agree 999. A psychologist writing in my local paper said that today's children spell 'love' T-I-M-E. I've got to wonder where Amanda's family was while all this was going on. If her family was dysfunctional, didn't any teachers notice the cuts, the anxiety, the depression? There are a lot of unanswered questions here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Megan L Date: 16 Oct 12 - 11:31 AM "I've got to wonder where Amanda's family was while all this was going on. If her family was dysfunctional, didn't any teachers notice the cuts, the anxiety, the depression?" Her family could be right where mine were solidly by her side doing what they could in a situation they probably had no experience of. As for teachers well one was actually standing at the bus stop the day eggs were smashed over my head she said and did nothing. Another thing I learned working with victims is that they are often ashamed of being so "weak" (their own phrasing not mine)that they hide things that would alow others to help. It is very easy to say give them a taste of their own medicine it often makes things worse as the bully enlists their own posse and changes the odds to their favour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: MGM·Lion Date: 16 Oct 12 - 11:38 AM I was a teacher for 30 years, ending up with 12 years as Head of Upper School in a Cambridge comprehensive. Retired 25 years ago. If any of my staff had stood by while seeing a pupil being picked on and assaulted while waiting at the same bus stop, s/he would not have remained in the job for another 5 minutes. When did this dreadful incident occur, Megan? What could have happened to teaching standards at that time and place? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:47 PM She moved from school to school, but the bullying was the same, and of course, those she'd left behind knew where to find her on Facebook etc.. Today's children live in a 24/7 BullyAccess World, where Bitchiness is promoted all the time by The Corporate Bastards, in films, CDs, books, video etc... I recall back in Sidmouth going into a shop, picking up a mug with "You can call me *Miss* Bitch!" written on it, one of many 'Bitch Items' for sale...I took it to the owner and asked him what the hell he was doing selling stuff like this. I told him what my daughter had endured, all the nasty comments...and her friend, Hannah, so quiet, so deeply gifted musically, who had every bitchy comment imaginable thrown at her, as well as other girls hitting her in the face.. And yes, Bruce is absolutely 100% correct, the separation of children from their parents, their families, has been tragic to see happening...and again, it's been done deliberately for The Corporate Bastards see children as nothing more than more punters/consumers, so the bigger market they can create for 'All Things Children' the better, especially Computer Games of course... There are some foul people out there on the internet, who get their kicks from playing with the emotions of others, I know, I found out the hard way. They are extraordinarily clever at what they do, very talented at it, but underneath lies a coldness akin to rigor mortis, where not a single emotion exists of any sort whatsoever towards those they hurt, use, or abuse... They are drawn to the internet, know exactly how to use it and they can spot a vulnerable person at 1,000 paces... Hopefully, they'll find the bastards who did this to her, but even more hopefully it may spark a renaissance in Family Life, although HOW that is going to happen when The Corporate Bastards now have almost everyone out working, Mums & Dads both, just to pay the bills and keep food on the table.... We need to go back to the ways of our forefathers, where people looked after each other, where children were with their Mums most of the time, where Mums were able to stay at home, run the home, keep their children safe, keep an eye on each other's children, spot the strangers and create a safe society... Maybe Mother Earth is going to arrange it all for us pretty soon, for all it needs is for the Power to go down and hey presto, chaos ensues, but finally people start to pull together once again.... I'm shocked and deeply angry at the bitchiness that is still going on on Facebook about Amanda. I wrote to the very mixed up young woman who made that terrible video above, trying to get her to see what she has done and to take that video down, but sadly, I think she's 'too far gone' down The Road of Messed Up Children to even begin to understand. A few years back the teachers in the UK had thei conference in Torquay and they said back then that many of them were severely worried at the mental problems being shown by children, many of whom were deeply anxious and very stressed out... Our children NEED us, desperately... We have so let them down, both in the UK, America and other countries too, but I think those two are the worst at present.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Raptor Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:57 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:41 PM Thanks, Raptor. I've just sent the details of that video to the RCMP, along with the FB page of the woman who made it, so hopefully they'll get it removed, as Youtube have completely ignored my request to get it taken down, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have contacted them about it. Youtube and Facebook should be held far more accountable about revealing the identities of people who use their sites to bully and verbally abuse, spread rumours etc...At the moment, for the most part, they simply ignore complaints and unless you know how to use their system fully, or are able to sue the pants off them, there's little you can do. This is so wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Bert Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:06 PM Well said MtheGM. Make teachers accountable and bullying will stop overnight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: GUEST,mando-player-91 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:18 PM The thing about cyber-bullying is that it is not taken as seriously as face to face and cyber-bullying is probably the worst. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: meself Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:22 PM Wow - that's simple! Now, don't you think it would be nice, as well, if a teacher had some reason to suppose that when she steps in to protect a child from bullying, she does so with the full support of the principal, parents, education department, and society in general? Here's a challenge: ask teachers of your acquaintance if that is the situation at present. We will eagerly await your report. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: meself Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:23 PM (That was, of course, in response to "Bert"). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: GUEST,999 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:26 PM I ditto in BIG LOUD letters what meself said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Richard Bridge Date: 16 Oct 12 - 03:49 PM Another interesting question is why it is seen as shameful that Amanda Todd bared her breasts. Of course the "hand on the ha'penny" brigade will have a view on this. Won't they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:07 PM Yes, Richard, they will... How long have you got? You want me to talk about the 'grooming' of our children and young people? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: theleveller Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:19 PM "If any of my staff had stood by while seeing a pupil being picked on and assaulted while waiting at the same bus stop, s/he would not have remained in the job for another 5 minutes." At the boys' grammar school I went to from 1960-67 it was the masters who led the bullying, aided and abetted by prefects and senior boys. While I was there one boy hung himself at school because of the way he was treated (including persistent beatings) by a certain master. To my knowledge no action was taken and the master certainly still behaved in the same way afterwards. Today schools are expected to have a proper programme of pastoral care. Any school found by OFSTED not to have a suitable programme will be put into special measures no matter how good it might be in other aspects. At my daughter's school there is a Pastoral Department with a dedicated Pastoral Care Manager. Any problems (not just bullying) can be brought to Pastoral by pupils, teachers or parents. These are then investigated, all parties are talked to, and a solution is instigated, overseen by the Pastoral Manager. Ifthe problem continues, further steps can be taken including the exclusion of any persitent offender. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: theleveller Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:23 PM hung = hanged |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 17 Oct 12 - 03:40 AM All schools my children attended had *wonderful* anti-bullying charters, yet my children were bullied in each of those schools... My daughter, in particular, suffered more, as my son came out of school at 7, she was 15 when she couldn't take it any longer....and on talking to the headmaster we got a blank look and "Well, I can't see any of the young people in her class as being of the bullying type, they're merely your average unthinking teenagers.." These 'average unthinking teenagers' almost drove my daughter's friend to suicide, along with making her own life at school hell, with their bitchy, nasty comments and their violent behaviour. MANY children (and I include secondary school pupils under that 'children' banner) have a great many emotional problems, put upon them first and foremost by parents who aren't there for them in their lives. Often, this is driven by a society which has allowed a situation to be created where BOTH parents HAVE to work to keep a roof over their heads, that expects nearly all women to work, (when their work is being a Mum, caring for their children and the home) and/or has created people of such utter selfishness that they see their own wants and needs to be more important than those of their children. Also we have almost wiped out Motherhood as being of vital importance, and turned our women away from Femininity and Maternal Instincts... Amanda's horrific death SHOULD spark off a massive debate into why so many children are so horrible to one another, seeming to not care if others they know live, or die...even to the terrifying point of actually FILMING their peers being kicked, beaten up etc. then putting those images on the internet... This is NOT mormal! The makers of bitchy, violent, overtly sexual and deeply unpleasant Soaps, Films and Computer Games have a great deal to answer for, but they don't give a feck, not for Amanda, not for anyone, for they are intent on only pouring out their own weird thoughts into mainstream society, too thick, unfeeling, emotionally sick, or desensitised themselves to care..... We have SO much to put right. We put it ALL wrong, so we CAN undo it all, but do enough people care these days? Sadly, I don't think they give a damn....and so the Children of the World stagger on trying to stay alive unprotected by families, friends and/or strangers who seem unable to stop the brutality, unable to throw the computers and mobile phones away so that their child is at least protected from 24/7 intrusion by those with no emotions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: theleveller Date: 17 Oct 12 - 04:49 AM "All schools my children attended had *wonderful* anti-bullying charters, yet my children were bullied in each of those schools..." I think you'll find that anti-bullying tactics have improved a lot in the last few years. Charters are one thing, but now they should have practical, on the spot support from a dedicated person or persons. Of course, some schools will still not have got it right but I've certainly seen the Pastoral policies at my dughter's school working. The year before she started, the school was put into 'special measures' by OFSTED, which meant that the head teacher and the entire board of governors were dismissed. A new head was recruited from a 'beacon' school and, with a new board of governors (now including mrsleveller) they have certainly turned things around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Richard Bridge Date: 17 Oct 12 - 05:21 AM Oh dear. Cornish starts from the right premise but then goes off like one of Whinyates rockets in all the the wrong directions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Bert Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:21 AM You're right meself, I should have said school authorities. Like theleveller says, the head teacher and the entire board of governors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: saulgoldie Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:52 PM I'm wondering if these teachers who are going to rescue children from bullies are the same "leaches who suck down hard-earned taxpayer money" in the vernacular of the Republicans. When class sizes are loaded well above manageable, and then loaded still more, how can they reasonably be held responsible? And as has been mentioned also, parents, many of whom really *are* sane and caring about their children's welfare, are stretched very thin in the current employment environment. And some of them are bullies themselves. So what society does with one consistent voice through the care-takers of our youngsters is difficult at best to make happen. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: MGM·Lion Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:05 PM 'Responsible' for what, Saul? The teacher described by Megan some posts back, standing at a bus-stop where she (Megan) was being seriously assaulted [eggs broken over her head] without intervening, was responsible all right. As I said above in reply, s/he should have been held to account and dismissed, and would have been if s/he had been one of my staff in my days as Head of Upper School [1974-86]. I can't imagine, what is more, what other adults who were presumably waiting at the same stop were not doing not intervening either. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: ollaimh Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:26 PM i grew up and went to school in rural nova scotia. there was some bullying but very little. i was astoished by the virtually non stop personal slurs and bullying out there among the english when i went west to look for work. the levels of homophobia and katred of women were daunting. i really didn't know what to make of it all for years.and of course the racism in western canada was unbelievable. especially towards natives and south asians. when i went o englisn there was some of all this as well. in england it is coached in terminology that out sders don;t understand. at least it was years later when i figured out i was being put down by english men. i have discussed this on folk song discussions. people are not going to want to hear this but i turly think anglo culture has been deeply imbued with bullying for centuroies due to its almost constant militatism. i grew up in a culture where hardly anyone swore, and direct insults would cause a fist fight immediately. so almost no one did it unless they were crazy. of course i think anglo culture is crazy from its centuries of militarism. even as a adult in adult work places i had to make a big stink to get fellow worker to stopp calling the ither men "ladies" . straight from us militry speak. when i tried to join the vancouver foilk soing society i was under attack constantly for essentially imaginary infractions. i was definately working class then, straight from the oil fields, trying to get some education. they saw all working class men as threatening and racist. this from some of the most intolerant people i have ever met. folk song groups oftem descend into ethnic discrimination--out side the franco galeic areas. anglo culture is intensely intolerant and suspicious of anyone who seems different. they accept agression as right. in those situations i was almost always attacked for standing up to defend my self. here on mud cat i have identified a self confessed naxzi holocoust denier who i knew at a flk group and my posts are deleted. the holocoust denier was upper class and well conected, and although everyone knew about him, people still defend this example of the most egrigious possible racism. intolerance to dissent is in the very fabric of anglo culture. and militarism is accpted with little or no critical thinking. in my experience it's a bullying culture. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: ollaimh Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:31 PM shifting gears. cyber bullying lets cowardly but sadistic people get away with a lot. we do need more stringent laws on threats, slurs and libel on line. however you can sue, amanda todd can't now, but living people can. i was libelled in a cyber bullying campaign on line years ago. i didn't know abot it far quite a while. a friend sent me one of the posts and i sued. this was in the scoiety for creative anachronism, which had a culture totally devoted to bullying. i won easily. rememebr the thing about bullies is they are cowards. they have really no capacity to stand up in court and survive cross examoination. so i heartily suggest law suits. amanda todds family should look into suits. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Richard Bridge Date: 17 Oct 12 - 04:39 PM Mostly, today, teachers have no authority or power outside school gates. Perhaps elderly memories fade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: MGM·Lion Date: 17 Oct 12 - 05:19 PM In my teaching days, when I was appointed to a senior disciplinary post, I took the trouble to read the standard book supplied by the LEA called The Law For Teachers. This explicitly stated that the pupil was under the care and discipline of the school, in statu pupillari, from the time of leaving home until returning home. Has this situation been altered? In any case, any teacher capable of the job should be capable of inhibiting his pupils from misbehaving in a public place, however much authority he might notionally have to do so. Or so it was when Bess did reign and this old hat was new. If no longer so, O tempora. o mores! ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: MGM·Lion Date: 17 Oct 12 - 05:29 PM In my teaching days, when I was appointed to a senior disciplinary post, I took the trouble to read the standard book supplied by the LEA called The Law For Teachers. This explicitly stated that the pupil was under the care and discipline of the school, in statu pupillari, from the time of leaving home until returning home. Has this situation been altered? In any case, any teacher capable of the job should be capable of inhibiting his pupils from misbehaving in a public place, however much authority he might notionally have to do so. Or so it was when Bess did reign and this old hat was new. If no longer so, O tempora. o mores! ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Raptor Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:40 AM It seems a lot of people here are blaming teachers but nobody's talking about the parents. My brother-in-law has it right he does not allow his son to have his own Facebook page he instead has Kyle use his Facebook page when he wants so he can see the activity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: MGM·Lion Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:46 AM Raptor ~ I am not blaming teachers in general; but I was greatly distressed by the inactivity and non-intervention of a particular teacher, related by Megan in her post of 16 Oct 11.31, and just hoping she was not typical; a hope not encouraged by Richard's comment of 17 Oct 04.39. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Raptor Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:59 AM Around here in Ontario seems that people think it's up to the teachers to raise their kids. Of course the teacher who witnesses something should do what they can. But I think the parents need to be more accountable for kids behavior. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Amanda Todd and cyber-bullying From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:20 AM Many parents are shockingly disconnected from their children these days, and society has made it thus...sadly. |
