Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:44 PM

Arthur Stong, the prat who put the 'o' on Count.
Can't abide him at any price.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:44 PM

I was talking to Mark last Thursday, and he never mentioned Folk on Two (not in the same way that he didn't mention Jimmy Saville). I'd say that if you think that Mark doesn't know what he's talking about, then you just don't get his sense of humour.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:00 AM

Mark is brilliant, he isn't Mike - Mike is brilliant in many ways that I think most folkies recognise and like.

Les

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Western Suze
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:01 AM

S Cringe : nothing her se, but it has rather been the Northern'n'Celtic show for the past decade or however long Harding has been at t'helm. It would be nice if south-of-Birmingham got more of a look in. Mainly though I think it would be nice if somebody in say their 30s or 40s got it rather than another person who will constantly hark back to the old days. It can't always stay aimed at the upper end of Radio 2s demographic. Harding thinks everything he plays is always "cracking" but that might be from osteoporosis.

Subject: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:01 AM

Just heard that Mike Harding's show has joined the list of radio casualties - it's now only a few people like Genevieve Tudor of Radio Shropshire left flying any kind of flag for folk music - otherwise it's now just down to the independent stations.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:02 AM

Sorry,, just seen the duplicate thread which appeared a nanosecond before I posted!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:04 AM

Has he been caught fiddling with jelly tots??????

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:26 AM

I have to agree with whoever said that Radcliffe's presentation of the Cambridge Folk Festival shows isn't an indicator of good things. Mind you, the whole tone of those shows isn't something I enjoy. There's an air of desperation about them, as if someone has decided that folk music needs re-branding by using 'celebrities' like Zoe Ball and Stephen Mangan. In any case radio is a very different medium from television and stuttering and waving your arms around doesn't work very well as a means of communication on the radio. We shall see, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:28 AM

Perhaps he's planning to enjoy a well-earned retirement - he's of the age!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:44 AM

I will miss him playing his guitar along as he reads out the charts. A top bloke & all round good egg - and his photography ain't bad either.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:28 AM

i wonder what they axed him??

How many mintballs has Uncle Joe got? The meaning of life? Should Prince Harry keep making videos of his willy, or should he just leave it out? (I've wondered that myself)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 06:22 AM

"I will miss him playing his guitar along as he reads out the charts."

Last time I listened (which was, I admit, several years ago) it was Martin Simpson playing.

"south-of-Birmingham"

Don't you fall off the edge of the world. Here be dragons!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 06:58 AM

Here be irony, too!

It was Nic Jones, of course...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:10 AM

Dave Eyre who presents the Sheffield Live folk programme would be my choice,although his political views are questionable

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:10 AM

Last time I heard the programme (admittedly several years ago) he used to read the charts over Planxty Davis which was some kind of sop to get a few pennies of royalties to the Jones family. Would that the BBC had ever lifted a finger to help resolve the big issue.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:12 AM

Mark Radcliffe is credited with saying that Mike Harding is a friend (see Guardian and Daily Telegraph reports). If that is so and the first M.H. knew of this decision was the first and only phone call from Bob Shennan, then so much for friendship. M.R. must have been approached and agreed to the posting long before the announcement. He could at least advised M.H. this was on the cards.

      Also , I read the BBC is wishing to have "a presenter with less traditional tastes", "to bring folk music into the mainstream" and "bring folk to a wider audience". I don`t believe it`s the BBC`s remit to do these things. Rather it should give a fair sample of everything and let the public choose for itself. Where will the listener of "traditional tastes" get his or her pleasure?. Does it mean that we are to be fed a diet of very competent, multi tracked, multi-instrumental, studio constructed productions of songs and tunes, sold to the "wider public audience" under the guise of folk music? I sincerely hope not.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:16 AM

"It was Nic Jones, of course..."

Of course, it was! Memory's going the same way as the hearing!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Chris Cole.
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:24 AM

Absolutely, Steve. Mark does know his stuff. I think he's a great choice. If R2 wants to bring folk music to a wider audience, he's the man to do it. He's also an excellent presenter-I've followed his career since hosted "Hit The North " on radio five live.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,chris cole
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:26 AM

well said, Bernard!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:51 AM

How many of the contributors here have listened recently? The Planxty Davis played over charts stopped years ago.
As a regular listener, I think it's definitely time for a change. Mike does a fair job but his aphorisms grate after hearing them week after week - grubby little mitts, one of the best ever, etc. Mark Radcliffe is an interesting choice, and I look forward to giving him a chance.
Regardless of who hosts it, a Radio 2 folk programme is guaranteed to plough the middle of the road. T'internet is the place to hear more radical stuff.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:06 AM

It will turn into a pop music show before 12 months are out.

Mike Harding ' too traditional ? ' he vastly increased the listening figures by playing more pop/rock/country music, not by playing traditional music.

He's the man who asked The Corrs if they planned to do any more traditional CDs who replied ' we don't do traditional ' why they were on his show in the first place is a mystery.

Having said all that, I saw him many times in folk clubs and he was brilliant, a great instrumentalist, singer, comedian and a really good songwriter, and I think the BBC have treated him very shabbily, sacking him over the phone seems at best cowardly to me.

Mike, Martin Carthy, Ralph McTell, none of them half as good as Jim Lloyd.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:36 AM

Oh dear, such weedy laughter ensued, re the south o' Brum post. This morning on Footstompin' someone was complaining the show is Anglocentric, and hoping Mark Radcliffe will put that to rights.
As I pointed out, Smoothie Chops will still be the programme makers, and beholden to the Beeb for their patronage. So my guess is, not that much will change.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:42 AM

Last time I heard the programme (admittedly several years ago) he used to read the charts over Planxty Davis

Well, bang goes that illusion! I always had this vision of MH sitting in the studio with his guitar, casually noodling along as he rapped the charts by the dim glow of a VU meter. Shows how much I know, eh? Not a lot when it comes to folkie guitar heroes I admit - though I once saw Nic Jones at the Davy Lamp in Washington and it was a top night out. And I just adore his quintessentially English folk-fiddling on Merlin's Isle.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:58 AM

"Oh dear, such weedy laughter ensued, re the south o' Brum post."

That puts me pretty much on a par with Mike Harding, then :)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:21 AM

I'd be interested to know how Smooth Operations worked with the Beeb in instances like this.

I mean, would it have been that the BBC powers-that-be would have approached the Smooth-Operations powers that be and said "we're a bit bored with this Mike Harding chap, got any suggestions who you could replace him with?". to which SmoothOps would have said "hmmm, how about our Mark Radcliffe?".

I mean, is it that "THE RADIO 2 FOLK SHOW" simply MUST be run by Smooth Operations - and therefore that any presenter of it must be sourced from the Smooth Ops "stable"?

Put it another way, if the Beeb were dissatisfied with some aspect of Mike Harding's folk show, could they have asked Smooth Operations to try to source someone completely new as presenter, like, say, Jim Moray or whoever?

It's a genuine question: I'm very curious to know how the system of tender for all these radio slots works. What, in theory, is stopping me, say, from starting a production company and volunteering my radio-show production services to the BBC?

And is it just me or is this whole thing of one radio DJ having 2 or 3 different shows on one station a bit of a new thing - well, a phenomenon that seems to have crept in over the last 10 years?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:33 AM

Hi

I like Mike Harding very much. I knew him when he first started up and followed his career with interest.

He was a great entertainer and certainly filled the clubs when he performed. I used to book Mike about once a year "to pay the rent". He also helped me by recommending up-and-coming musicians worth having a look at.

I guess after 15 years though regardless of how good or bad he was, it was time for a change.

I don't know much about Mark Radcliffe but I think we should wait at least until he has been doing the program for a few weeks to try to judge him. He won't be Mike Harding- that is why he has been chosen.Who knows?? He may even please The Traddies.

Give the man a chance.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:45 AM

The Beeb wants to make its specialist music shows more attractive to the general listener so they don't lose their audience. Bringing in an established radio broadcaster (albeit one with an interest in folk), rather than one from within the folk world, is another step along the road.

The general flavour of the show is dictated by Smooth Ops who are in turn dictated to by the BBC. Mark Radcliffe will bring his own personality to the show and may have a little influence on the choice of music, but I suspect the music that is played on the show won't change a lot.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:46 AM

If I was in charge...I'd have got Lester Simpson & Mick Peat - Folkwaves seemed to me get it all pretty much bang on, give or take a Midlands bias. Banter, old, new, foreign material, intelligent & informed opinions etc. Failing that, we could do a lot worse than MR.

Back to lurking

Martin

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:58 AM

Mark Radcliffe is a good DJ and is a fan of folk music. It all depends on what his brief is, though. What worries me is that Radio Two wants something even more mainstream and that the folk show will become yet another radio show dominated by the Mumfords and Marlings of this world, which you can hear enough of on other programmes for them not to need exposure on very short specialist shows. Though I do agree with Mike above - let's give the man a chance. Persoanlly I'd opt for a three hour show co-presented by Radcliffe, Harding and Bob Meyer...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:59 AM

What, in theory, is stopping me, say, from starting a production company and volunteering my radio-show production services to the BBC?

Absolutely nothing, Matt. The change to the BBC's charter and monopoly of programme making means that it must contract out a percentage of its programme output to independent makers.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:17 AM

"What worries me is that Radio Two wants something even more mainstream and that the folk show will become yet another radio show dominated by the Mumfords and Marlings of this world, which you can hear enough of on other programmes for them not to need exposure on very short specialist shows. Though I do agree with Mike above - let's give the man a chance. Persoanlly I'd opt for a three hour show co-presented by Radcliffe, Harding and Bob Meyer..."

I'm pretty sure I've heard Mike Harding play a Laura Marling song on his show, for what it's worth. He certainly plays plenty of folk material that in its essence is just as vapid as Mumfords et al. And Bob Meyer plays plenty of quite middle-of-the-road singer-songwriter stuff too - he plays very little traditional song. (Notwithstanding the fact that he gets the excellent Kilkawley Family in session, and that his own albums are proper gritty dirt blues loveliness, I should add!) I noticed Genevieve Tudor had post-Mumford singer-songthumpers Ahab in session the other day.

I don't see how Radcliffe can push the R2 folk show too much further towards the mainstream, it's already pretty close

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:18 AM

From 'Guest Ed'
>>>"Mike Harding has NOT been sacked. His contract is ending and he hasn't been offered a new one for this slot. Big difference.

Don't believe everything Lizzie Cornish says..."<<


You are such a fecking twit...
Best BELIEVE that, mate, for I was correct about Mike being sacked....


And yes, I DO accept apologies...but doubt I'll get one from 'the usual crowd' of Cowardly Moaning Minnies....

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,jonesnudger
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:19 AM

Yet more b******s from the bloated BBC. Best idea, the one already made: let Mike and Mark share the show and make it twice as long. Mike and I share a bit of backgound, both Crumpsall originally and same musical friends late 50's early 60's. I don't share his wild enthusiasm for every single song and tune he plays. Surely some of the numbers are "not the best thing I have heard this year"? Still, we should be grateful as humble licence payers that the Beeb deigns to bother with folk at all.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:21 AM

I'm also correct about this, were Mike to take the idea up, for it would be FAR BIGGER than Mark Radcliffe's Show..and I bet that Alan from UK Folk Music would help him out, just as he has with FOLKWAVES.

Live From The Cowshed

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:24 AM

Deposed! is it, by thunder!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:54 AM

Sorry Lizzie my friend, but failure to renew an existing contract, does not constitute a sacking. He is contracted till the end of this year, and he will continue to do it till the end of this year. Ergo he is still employed. His contract was not terminated, it was scheduled to end then. I think you may find that Mike is actually self employed too.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:04 AM

Can't say MH hasn't had a fair innings;
and if he's too energetic to contemplate full time retirement
nothing's to stop him setting up his own internet blog radio station.

He's got the experience and resources to make a go of going 'indie'
unshackled from the constraints of mainstream broadcast production corporations.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19988875

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,CJ
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:28 AM

Here's my opinion.

MH's show was far from perfect, but it'd be unfair to blame MH or it as a show for the lack of time traditional music has on the BBC. If the show had been twice the length, for example, I'm sure MH would have covered more bases.

I cannot stand Mark Radcliffe. His show on BBC6 has become a parody of itself. He presents it in such a selfconciously "wacky" way it makes for unpleasant listening. I used to love his shows on Radio 1, even when he went to the middle of the afternoon, he still sounded Real. Now, he sounds forced, anxious and eager. If he transfers this presenting style to the folk show, it doesn't matter WHAT he plays, his jittery style will make the show an unpleasant listen for me.

Finally, I can't help but see this as a move to the mainstream. I hope I'm wrong, but I strongly suspect that there'll be a whole heap of nickdrakes being played. I think some nickdrakes are very good, but there are plenty of places on the BBC where they receive airplay. I'd rather this "folk" show concentrated on more traditional based music not oft (or ever) played on the BBC.

Prove me wrong Mark, relax your style a bit and play music not on the BBC6 playlist.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,soothsayer
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:33 AM

How much do input you honestly think Mike Harding had into his playlist? How much will Radcliffe have? The playlists are dictated by Smooth Operations and I guess by the BBC as well. The personality behind the microphone might help to get certain audiences on board through their own fanbase and their profile but like any BBC radio show they are nothing like autonomous when it comes to choosing the music that gets played. I have it on good authority that Mike Harding often had to play music he didn't really like.

There's been a lot of slagging off of the BBC. Ask yourself, who's decision was it not to renew the contract, the BBC's, or the production company that makes the show?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:39 AM

"I don't see how Radcliffe can push the R2 folk show too much further towards the mainstream, it's already pretty close."

That's true. I just think it could get even closer...

And I'd second your comments about Bob Meyer's album.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:42 AM

I rarely listen to folk or blues or jazz on the BBC these days - it all seems so gutless. Even the name "Smooth Operations" seems smarmy and gloopy.

I think back to the days of people like Mike Raven, Alexis Korner, Charlie Gillett, Humph, John Peel, Mark Lamarr - people you felt had some personal input to their shows - with fondness. We shan't see their like again.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:42 AM

Ask yourself, who's decision was it to impose on the BBC
the employment ethics and practices of the ruthless corporate boardroom market place !!!???

Time for MH to step down ? maybe ???

But the slimey nature of his discarding is reprehensible.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:54 AM

If Mike was told what to play, then I think that is a disgrace!
From what we know, John Peel was never told what to play, and so why would anyone presume to tell Mike Harding -with all his experience on the folk scene - what to play!
All this "dumbing down" by the BBC is very disappointing.
Mind you, the BBC have a long track record of drafting in people, who lack the correct credentials, to run shows
I do hope that Mike does now "reveal all" about the show.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

"Radio 2's folk show is produced for the BBC by independent production company Smooth Operations, which also produces Mark Radcliffe's other BBC radio ventures."


Says it all really!.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:29 PM

How much do input you honestly think Mike Harding had into his playlist?

When I asked if MH would play our album on his show he asked me to send him a copy, which I did. That he didn't play it I took in good grace & as a matter of personal taste - plenty of other stations did, from Bob's Folk Show to the Late Junction on Radio 3, so I'm in no way complaining here. Every respect for MH, it seems to me that he played pretty much what he liked to play which is exactly as it ought to be. And I doubt Sproaty Smith & Elle Osbourne are on any official play list, though I'd love to be told I was mistaken!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:56 PM

I've got a great idea. Have an hour a week programme on Radio 2 that plays records of folk music. just a thought? But unlikely to be implemented.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,soothsayer
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:58 PM

not saying he had no input at all, but I have definintely heard that a lot of the playlist was dictated by the producers and there were things he didn't want to play, that he had to.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 01:03 PM

He who pays the piper, calls the tune

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 01:58 PM

The pressure and competition from other broadcasters on the BBC - from many areas - is such that listener/viewer figures are more paramount in their thinking than ever before. With that in view, it seems more likely to me that contracts to independent programme makers (like Smooth Ops) will be awarded with an eye to the ratings that those programmes can bring in. This isn't rocket science, just the market dictating or influencing the action - and a totally different environment from the one in which the BBC operated, say, 20 years ago.

Smooth Ops are bound to have the question of ratings and listener figures in mind when creating their programmes - and 'tune' the programmes accordingly. How they tune them is, of course, open to speculation.