BS: Israel condemned by UN

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 03:52 AM

No free, informed nation believes those lurid, ludicrous lies.

"Today, the relations between Finland and Israel cover practically all walks of life, from diplomacy and trade to cultural and scientific co-operation and tourism. Finland's membership in the European Union (since 1995) has added an important dimension to the Finnish-Israeli relations. In addition to official contacts, numerous non-governmental organisations and individuals play a role in enhancing ties between Finns and Israelis. Annually, some 10,000 Finns visit Israel, with Jerusalem being the favourite destination. "

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 05:23 PM

Keith vaccilates between Seigal seeing nothing and the next minute "she was on top of the hospital building and taking long walks, viewing it all"
You lie again.
You put in quotes what I never said.
Do you deny she reported what she saw that night from the top of the hospital?
Answer please.

His most disgusting rejection of eyewitness evidence was that of traumatised Israeli soldiers who were there - he describes them as "unreliable".
Why did they not come forward, like many of their comrades, until long after the events and the enquiries?

There were no such reports - produce them if there were - otherwise you are lying again
The militia took casualties.
Siegel reports sounds of fighting.
If there were none, they were thought to be present.

Bloody nonsense - there was no street lighting Witnesses, including Ellen Seigal described it as being "as light as day"
You do not need flares or street lights to kill indiscriminately in a crowded camp.
Siegel said it was silent under the flares, except for "light artillery."
Deny that Jim?

The fighters had left long ago - none were found, there was no armed reesistance
Evidence Jim?
I have given you mine.
Anyway, they were thought to be there if they were not.

Your ludicrous, lurid accusations are believed by no-one outside your bunch of bigots in your bubble of lies.
Ireland, Australia and Denmark and every other decent nation would have no truck, never mind close and warm relations with a state guilty of such things.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 04:51 PM

The whole world knows what Israel did in their assaults on the Palestinian people. To say otherwise is to show insanity on this issue. Despite the evidence clearly shown by Jim Carroll and others on this thread, there are those hard-nosed individuals who would perpetrate the bloody Israeli propaganda and thereby contribute to no solution to the peace process between Israel and the Palestinian people.


"He who makes outrageous accusations should provide the unequivocal evidence, not demand it of someone asking why to believe it."

He who denies unequivocal evidence when shown to him has a strong bias against such credible evidence and if shown to him wouldn't make any difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 04:36 PM

By tehe way Bruce - you have been given links to the most comprehensive study of the massacre
"SABRA & CHATILA - INQUIRY INTO A MASSACRE by Amnon Kapeliouk"
He was a Jewish citizen of Jerusalem, an acedamic; his work is annotated throughout and his sources are impeccable
Keeith dismisses the little bit he has read as "unreliable" (without explanation, of course) and has refused to read all of it because it is "too long"
It is corroborated by Robert Fisk's two major articles and also my the eyewitness testimonies of nurse, Ellen Siegel and Dr Ang Swee Chai.
Keith vaccilates between Seigal seeing nothing and the next minute "she was on top of the hospital building and taking long walks, viewing it all"
His most disgusting rejection of eyewitness evidence was that of traumatised Israeli soldiers who were there - he describes them as "unreliable".
"There were reports of fighting. Exchanges of fire."
There were no such reports - produce them if there were - otherwise you are lying again
"You do not need flares to massacre civilians"
Bloody nonsense - there was no street lighting Witnesses, including Ellen Seigal described it as being "as light as day"
"The Phalange were sent in by IDF to clear the camps of fighters."
The fighters had left long ago - none were found, there was no armed reesistance - the Israeli commandants were fully aware of this and if they hadn't been it was straightforward mass murder to send in a fanatical religious sect whose leader had recently been assassinated into a camp of unarmed refugees - this even contravened the Israeli constitution which makes it an act of murder.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 04:18 PM

No-one believes tese ludicrous accusations except te bigots in teir bubble.
No decent country would have warm and close relations wit a state tat massacred civilians.
Not Irlend.
Not Austtralia.
Not Denmark.

"Relations between Denmark and Israel are good and widespread, which means that the Embassy is met with friendship, interest and openness in the Israeli society. This in turn gives us the best possible platform for carrying out our mission in a professional way.

We work to strengthen the already good relations between Denmark and Israel – be it in the sphere of business, culture or climate change and environment.

We keep the Danish Government and Danish institutions updated on the political situation in Israel and the region.


I have been told that during then foreign minister Poul Hartling´s visit to Israel in 1970 he stopped an 8 year old boy in the streets of Haifa asking him what he knew about Denmark. The boy answered: "You have [Hans Christian] Andersen and you saved the Danish Jews during the war."

This was back in the seventies. Hans Christian Andersen speaks for himself. The rescue operation of the Danish Jews in October 1943 is still commemorated in Israel, in Denmark and elsewhere. Within just a few days more than 7.000 Jews were illegally sailed to safety in Sweden.

In the new millennium Danish – Israeli relations are much more than Hans Christian Andersen and the rescue of the Danish Jews. There is no getting round innovation when it comes to increasing competitive power and growth. Denmark can learn from Israel as a start-up nation, which means that the cooperation between Denmark and Israel is flourishing.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 03:54 PM

Don.
But they didn't find Palestinian fighters, who had already left.

There were reports of fighting. Exchanges of fire.
If there were none, they were still expected.
NYT states that IDF came under fire AFTER the PLO were supposed to have withdrawn.
The Phalange were sent in by IDF to clear the camps of fighters.

Re your demands for unequivocal evidence.
He who makes outrageous accusations should provide the unequivocal evidence, not demand it of someone asking why to believe it.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 03:45 PM

eye witness reports, including the two nurses, claim they saw bodies being bulldozed into the ground;
That was a lie the first few times Jim.
Now it is a FUCKING LIE.
The nurses saw NO SUCH THING.
Last time you told that LIE you said you would be happy to provide the reference, and I challenged you on it.
STILL WAITING.

Flares.
You do not need flares to massacre civilians.
It would have happened anyway.
Siegel describes watching the flares.
She said each was followed by "light artillery" shots.
She said it was otherwise silent.No firing.
" No screams. No cries for help."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 02:13 PM

"They provided illumination: YOU are stating it was to allow killing"
No - the witnesses stated that it did provide illumination for three nights of killing - eye witnesses, the only independent enquiry and the most comprehensive book on the massacre.
If you have any evidence to counter this, please provide it. If you dispute official reports and surveys it is your job to provide evidence to the contrary
Even by Israeli law, they were guilty of a war crime - see above.
"IF they were refugees, they had no right to weapons"
No weapons whatever weapons were found and at that stage of the massacre when the Israelis were demanding them they would have been disarming massacre victims so that they could not defend themselves - this was their intention.
"They turned them back, but can you show that they knew it was to be killed?"
All reports, including the only independent enquiry, says that they were made aware of what was happening withoin hours of the start of the massacre - see above.
"hey gave the use of ONE bulldozer to the militia"
That is the claim of the Israeli inquiry into itself - eye witness reports, including the two nurses, claim they saw bodies being bulldozed into the ground; this was also included in the only independent report.
"As culpable AS THE OCCUPYING POWER."
Nope - actually part of the massacre, even naming Begin as the main culprit
"As opposed to the Palestinians who selected their war criminals as a government?"
Even if there were true it is irrelevant - war crimes are not excusable because others carry them out - start a thread on PALESTINE
"See above."
Like you, Keith has refused to supply links or provide documented evidence to his claims - see above (the entire thread)
You bottled out of becoming involved in this part of the discussion once before NOW YOU ARE BEHAVING JUST LIKE KEITH AND MAKING UNLINKED AND UNQUALIFIED CLAIMS - TWO OF A KIND, AS THEY SAY IN CARDS - WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE FOR ALL THIS?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 01:55 PM

""They provided illumination: YOU are stating it was to allow killing- Please provide some factual basis. Why could it not have been providing light to allow the refugees to move around and get away from the LEBANESE who where attacking them?""

OH PUHLEASE! Make up your mind. If they didn't know about the killing why would they need to do that?

You get more off the plot with every post.

""They turned them back, but can you show that they knew it was to be killed? What percentage of those in the camp were killed, and how does that compare with other inter -Arab fighting, such as between Hamas and the PA?""

What did you just suggest as a reason for lighting up the sky?

The percentage is irrelevant and so are comparisons. IT WAS A MASSACRE!   DUH?

"stood by and watched the massacre take place,

""How could they have seen what was going on IN the camp when they remained outside?""

Well, they lit the whole scene lke a football stadium, so whether it was for your reason, or ours, they must have known that the Lebanese were going berserk. What did they think the Phalangists were doing, playing chess?

"""bury the 'evidence' with their clearly marked bulldozers ...."

They gave the use of ONE bulldozer to the militia to help it remove the Palestinian fighters from the camp.""

But they didn't find Palestinian fighters, who had already left. But the people they DID find weren't removed by that dozer. They are still there, under the stadium hastily erected to conceal their mass grave.

You asked what proportion died! Easy answer, ask the bulldozer driver.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 01:27 PM

As I thought, no response from our resident anti Arab apologist for Israel.

No suggestion of any basis for his claims that witnesses lied!

Of course not!

He always gets very shy when challenged to apply, to himslf, the same standards on which he insist for us.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 01:13 PM

Jim,

"Can you provide evidence to show that Israel did not provide illumination to allow the killing...
"
They provided illumination: YOU are stating it was to allow killing- Please provide some factual basis. Why could it not have been providing light to allow the refugees to move around and get away from the LEBANESE who where attacking them?


"refused to intervene while at the same time demanding that any weapons possessed by the refugees should be handed over,

IF they were refugees, they had no right to weapons: If they were Palestinian resistance who had weapons, they were in combat and either disarmed or were targets.


" actually turn back into the hands of the killers refugees attempting to escape, "

They turned them back, but can you show that they knew it was to be killed? What percentage of those in the camp were killed, and how does that compare with other inter -Arab fighting, such as between Hamas and the PA?



"stood by and watched the massacre take place,

How could they have seen what was going on IN the camp when they remained outside?



"bury the 'evidence' with their clearly marked bulldozers ...."

They gave the use of ONE bulldozer to the militia to help it remove the Palestinian fighters from the camp.



"Then having been found fully culpable by an independent enquiry .."

As culpable AS THE OCCUPYING POWER. The Militia was determined to have committed the acts, and I see NO comment from you about their subsequent inclusion in the Lebanese government. If you can't be bothered to criticise them, how do you justify attacking Israe for it, unless you hold Jews to a different standard than you hold Christians? BOTH peoples are racially related to each other, and native to the region.


"they elected the man found to be in charge as prime minister - a war criminal as the head of State."

As opposed to the Palestinians who selected their war criminals as a government? Yet you have shown support for that. Must be because he was Jewish, and the Palestinian war criminals were not...

"All these facts are documented - if you have any quibble with any of them, produce evidence to the contrary - Keith refuses to do so."


See above.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:53 PM

Jim, that statement is official. It is linked to from their embassy website.

All that stuff you accuse them of at Sabra they readily admit because it was about a legitimate military operation, except " bury the 'evidence' with their clearly marked bulldozers ..."

That is just another lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:41 PM

"That is certainly your right- as is the right of others to point out you have made claims without support, and ignored the statements that "Israel bears responsibility as the occupying power, but is not directly responsible for " the massacres you keep bringing up"
As Keith rightly said, "denial is nothing without evidence (or words to that effect
Can you provide evidence to show that Israel did not provide illumination to allow the killing to go on through three nights, arm the killers, provide the transport, having been informed on the first day of the killing refused to intervene while at the same time demanding that any weapons possessed by the refugees should be handed over, actually turn back into the hands of the killers refugees attempting to escape, stood by and watched the massacre take place, bury the 'evidence' with their clearly marked bulldozers ....
Then having been found fully culpable by an independent enquiry they elected the man found to be in charge as prime minister - a war criminal as the head of State.
All these facts are documented - if you have any quibble with any of them, produce evidence to the contrary - Keith refuses to do so.
BTW Keith, you failed to link your Australian quote (as usual) and neglected to say it was from The Australian Department of Trade and Industry - as I said - pragmatism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:23 PM

"It's certainly everybody on this thread.
"

Nope.


"As Joe so eloquently told you Jim, "you are a fucking liar.""



"However, I will continue to put them up for general reading and will do so for as long as you drag this thread out.
"

That is certainly your right- as is the right of others to point out you have made claims without support, and ignored the statements that "Israel bears responsibility as the occupying power, but is not directly responsible for " the massacres you keep bringing up

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:08 PM

"A few Mudcat Lefties plus Don is not "everybody" Jim."
It's certainly everybody on this thread.
You have no idea what my political views are – my arguments on this subject are based entirely on my humanitarian beliefs – if this makes them "Leftie" than it is to the left's credit that they are humanitarians – and I would rather be described as being of the left than a rabid right..
"when it was guilty of far less than you accuse Israel of."
I see very little difference between the crimes of Syria (who you proposed to sell riot equipment to) and Israel.
"Why no sanctions? Why such friendly relations?"
For the same reason Britain hosted an arms fair to sell to some of the most human rights states (and described as such by you) when the Arab Spring protests were underway, or why they sold sniper rifle ammunition to Syria (identified as such by you) which was possibly used on the citizens of Homs….. or why they sold havy artillery ammunition to Colonel Gadaffi which was used on the protestors, or trained his son to take over if he left office and all the other horrific trading partnerships the west accommodates – pragmatism.
As that nice Mr Cable said "we sometimes trade arms with states with questionable human rights records" ( or words to that effect) That's business
Israel has only avoided being tried as war criminals because of the support given to them by US vetoes – you've acknowledged how many that have used in their support.
"NOBODY believes your lurid accusations"
Then they've stayed remarkable silent on this thread
And as for your "robust parliamentary democracy" – see below from The Inequality report – sponsored by that well known leftie organisation Christian Aid – which shows beyond doubt that Israel is an Apartheid state capable of extreme oppressive behaviour towards ethnic minorities
Jim Carroll

THE CRIMINALIZATION OF POLITICAL ACTIVITY
• The criminal justice system is regularly used as a means of delegitimizing political acts and expression by Palestinian citizens. Along with ordinary citizens and political activists, Arab political leaders have been indicted
for activities and speech critical of state policy that falls within the scope of their work as elected political representatives.234 Recent cases include the following:
• In November 2009, the Attorney General indicted Arab MK Mohammed Barakeh, the leader of the Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (al-Jabha/Hadash) in relation to four separate incidents that occurred at demonstrations over the course of the previous three years. The demonstrations in question were peaceful protests against the Israeli Separation Wall being constructed in the West Bank, the Second Lebanon War of 2006, and the lack of accountability for the October 2000 killings.
Mr. Barakeh's participation in these demonstrations fell within his role as an MK and political leader of the Arab minority in Israel. MK Barakeh, who has attended hundreds of demonstrations at which he mediated between protesters and the police, took a leading role in mediating with the police or the military on behalf of protestors and in some instances was attacked by the police and the military. Police officers later submitted false complaints against him for assault, which form the basis of the charges against him. The evidence on which the indictment is based has been completely refuted by MK Barakeh and is insufficient to convict him; the indictment simply seeks to criminalize his legitimate political activities as an MK and undermine the political participation of the Arab minority in Israel as a whole.-32
• The Knesset House Committee voted to strip the parliamentary immunity of Arab MK Sa'id Naffaa of the Tajammoa/Balad political part}' (National Democratic Assembly) on 26 January 2010. The move paved the way
for the Attorney General to indict him criminally for various political offenses surrounding a visit he made to Syria in September 2007 as part of a delegation of Druze making a pilgrimage to Druze holy sites in Syria,
considered an " enemy state" under Israeli law. MK Naffaa arranged for a group of 2S0 Druze religious clerics to make a pilgrimage to holy sites in Syria after they were repeatedly refused a permit by the Interior Minister.
MK Naffaa argues that the clerics were unfairly and arbitrarily denied their religious freedom. He is also accused of contact with a foreign agent.
According to one of his assistants, who was interrogated by the GSS, MK Naffaa discussed the feud between Fatah and Hamas with Talal Naji, a Syrian leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and
attempted to meet with Hamas leader Khaled Meshal in Damascus. MK Naffaa denies meeting either man. MK Naffaa maintains that his visit was entirely political in nature and that the Knesset's actions seek to prevent
him from fulfilling his role as anMK.23* Adalah has learned that MK Naffaa
has been indicted.23'
• The first case in which an indictment was filed against an MK for political speech was that of former MKDr. Azmi Bishara, then head of theNDA-Balad part}'. Dr. Bishara was charged under The Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance (1948) with two counts of allegedly "supporting a terrorist organization," namely Hezbollah. In two speeches, Dr. Bishara analyzed the factors that led to the end of the Israeli occupation of South Lebanon and spoke about the realities of the Israeli occupation of the OPT and the right to resist it. He was also charged under The Emergency Regulations (Foreign Travel) (1948) for organizing a series of visits for elderly Palestinian citizens of Israel who wished to travel to Syria to visit refugee relatives. The indictments followed a vote to strip MK Bishara of his parliamentary immunity, which protected him from indictment, by the Knesset in November 2001, a move
hitherto unprecedented in Israeli politics. Adalah represented MK Bishara in the criminal indictments filed against him. The Magistrates' Court in Natzerat Illit decided unanimously to dismiss the criminal charges against him for the Syria visits case in April 2003. In November 2003, however, the Nazareth Magistrates' Court decided not to dismiss the indictments for political speech. In February 2006, following a petition filed by Adalah, 233
the Supreme Court unanimously ruled the decision to remove Dr. Bishara's immunity illegal and dismissed all charges against him for his political speeches.
• In addition to these indictments, on 7 June 2010 the Knesset House Committee voted to revoke the parliamentary privileges of MK Haneen Zoabi (NDA-Balad). The decision was approved by the Knesset plenum later in July 2010. MK Zoabi participated in the Gaza Freedom Hotilla and was a passenger on the Mavi Marmara. As MK Zoabi enjoys parliamentary immunity, she was not detained, but she was subjected to an extensive interrogation. Her description of the attacks contradicts the Israeli government's official version of the events,23" and she has called for an international, independent inquiry into the attacks. As a result, MK Zoabi has lost her diplomatic passport, any privileges in overseas travel enjoyed by MKs, and the right to have the Knesset cover her legal fees should her immunity be revoked for the purposes of criminal prosecution. The vote followed several stormy sessions in the Knesset during which MK Zoabi was branded a "terrorist" and "traitor" by fellow parliamentarians
and subjected to racist and sexist remarks and physical threats.240 Various Israeli ministers and MKs have called for the revocation of her Knesset membership, for her to be criminally prosecuted, and even for her Israeli citizenship to be revoked, as proposed bv the Interior Minister, Eli Yishai.241*42

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 09:41 AM

""Israel does not claim to be innocent of any mistake or misjudgement.

It does deny the lurid crimes you accuse it of, and the above to not support you except a number of soldiers unrepresentative enough to be highly suspect.""

Not good enough!

Show your unequivocal evidence for claiming those Israelis lied, or at the very least give a credible explanation of exactly what they have to gain by blowing the whistle on the massacres.

You set the standards for us. Now let's see you live up to them.

I'm betting you can't, and will simply continue to waffle.

If I'm right your credibility is gone!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 09:35 AM

Australia for instance.
No friend of countries guilty of apartheid or massacres.


Australia and Israel share a close relationship with significant people-to-people and commercial links. Australia established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1949. The Australian Embassy in Tel Aviv, and the Israeli Embassy in Canberra, were both opened in 1949.

Political overview

The State of Israel is a robust parliamentary democracy. The Knesset (parliament) is made up of 120 members elected every four years on the basis of proportional representation. The Prime Minister is a member of the Knesset, although Ministers need not be. The President is the Head of State, a largely ceremonial role, and is elected by a secret Knesset vote for a single seven-year term.

The current Israeli Government is led by Prime Minister Netanyahu. Netanyahu's Likud party heads a coalition of parties (Yesh Atid, Jewish Home and Hatnuah) after the January 2013 elections.

Bilateral relationship

Australia has warm and close relations with Israel, which are supported strongly by Australia's active Jewish community. The relationship has a strong historical dimension, dating back to the First World War when Australian forces fought in the region, including in modern-day Israel, alongside their Allied Counterparts against the Ottomans. Australia was the first country to vote in favour of the 1947 UN partition resolution.

Australia and Israel have a healthy commercial relationship with two-way trade worth $907 million (2011-2012). Our major merchandise export to Israel is coal ($56 million) followed by live animal trading ($54 million) and pearls and gems ($15 million – all figures 2011-2012). There are opportunities for Australian companies to take greater advantage of Israel's knowledge-based technologically advanced economy – particularly in areas of biotechnology, ICT, education and training. Investment is also growing. We encourage Israeli companies to view Australia as a regional base and as a supplier of sophisticated goods and services.

Updated March 2013

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 09:33 AM

""the only free country in the Middle East and North Africa"!""

Not if you are an Israeli Bedouin, or other Arab citizen, apparently:-

Oh yes! I apologise for making you read one of Jim's posts, but if you don't, you won't know what I'm talking about, so how about reading it this time?

""The attempted evacuation of the unrecognized village of Atir-Umm al-Hieran On 30 Julv 2009, the Beer el-Sabe Magistrates' Court ordered the eviction of a number of residents from their homes in the unrecognized village of Atir - Umm al-Hieran in the Xaqab.

The order is the latest in a series of eviction proceedings aimed at uprooting the village in preparation for the establishment of a new town named "Hiran," planned exclusively for Jewish residents.

The land designated for Hiran includes the land on which Atir - Umm al-Hieran is located.

A report by the Israel Land Administration (ILA) identifies the Arab Bedouin inhabitants of the area as a "special problem" that may affect the establishment of Hiran. Atir - Umm al-Hieran was established by order issued by the Israeli military governor in 1948, after the military forces had forcefully evicted its residents from their homes and land in Wadi Zuballa.

The tribe was prevented from returning to live or work on the land.

This transfer was not the first time that the villagers were evicted from their homes: they were displaced in 1948 to Hirbat al-Hanzail and then to Kokheh and Abu Kaff.

In 1956, the villagers were displaced for the third time to Wadi Atir, where they live today, having received assurances from the military governor that they would be permitted to remain on the land permanently.

The people established the village and built permanent brick and cement homes, and worked to rebuild their familial and social lives, which had been disrupted by each expulsion. Today, 150 families made up of around 1,000 people live in the village, all members of the Abu al-Qia'an tribe.

Adalah has been defending residents of Umm al-Hieran against attempts to expel and dispossess them since 2004.

On 21 October 2009, Adalah submitted an appeal against the Beer el-Sabe Magistrates' Court to the Beer el-Sabe District Court. In the appeal, Adalah demanded the cancellation of the eviction orders and a halt to the evacuation of the entire village.""

Explain to me Keith, if you wouldn't mind, how this fourth eviction after a promise of permanent residence is fair.

Is this what you have repeatedly described as ""they can't just be allowed to settle wherever they like""

Seems to me they'll only be allowed to finally settle once they've evntually been pushed across the border.

That takes care of the real fairness of a "Fair Israel".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:54 AM

Your claim that nobody believes them is an open insult to all who have opposed you here, that is just about everbody.

A few Mudcat Lefties plus Don is not "everybody" Jim.
You really are in a bubble of illusion.
Consider the EU, including your current state of residence.
They imposed sanctions on Syria early on when it was guilty of far less than you accuse Israel of.

Why no sanctions?
Why such friendly relations?

Likewise Scandinavian states.
Likewise any liberal democracy.
NOBODY believes your lurid accusations except, as I said, a bunch of bigots in a bubble of hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:12 AM

"But I have not made claims Jim."
Your whole case is made up of unqualified claims
"I just ask for a reason why you expect anyone to believe them."
Because they are researched and documented facts – reason enough for you? Obviously not.
If you don't accept this you have been given ample opportunity to disprove them – you haven't even tried to, instead you have just denied them without offering any proof. Your refusal to link your statements underlines the fact that most of them are no more than your own inventions and your promise to respond to requests for clarification then refusing to do so when challenged underlines your open dishonesty.
Your claim that nobody believes them is an open insult to all who have opposed you here, that is just about everbody.
You may have had the support of a couple of people on some minor points, but your obnoxious support for massacres (by pretending that Israel played no part in them), or the poisoning or proposed poisoning of ethnic communities (by either claiming that they hadn't happened, or by totally ignoring them) is your alone - if this is not true, show what support you have been given on your major claims – Sabra/Shatila, Bedouins, chemical warfare.....
As for "the whole world..." if Israeli atrocities aren't accepted universally, why have the US found it necessary to bail them out with a veto each time (you've already agreed that they have).
You have been given solid, researched and documented evidence which you have either denied without evidence or totally ignored.
You seem to have adopted the meglomanic stance that your denying evidence out-of-hand constitutes some sort of proof.
That evidence stands as undisputed fact, by you or anybody – even Israel hasn't responded to the Inequality Report which confirms the Israeli State and indisputably "Apartheid" .
I fully realise that you are not reading what is being put up – you haven't responded to the vast majority of them; fine, I didn't think for a moment you would.
However, I will continue to put them up for general reading and will do so for as long as you drag this thread out.
I am grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to do so
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 05:59 PM

B'Tselem, Israeli Human Rights organisations and numerous Israeli soldiers deny Israel's protestations of fairness and innocence.

You call them liars.

Fairness Don.
States can only aspire to it.
Those who criticises Israel for insufficiency of fairness are free to do so, but as Bobad reminds us, most Israeli Arabs find Israel a good place or even the best place to be, and Freedom House identified it as "the only free country in the Middle East and North Africa"!

Innocence Don.
Israel does not claim to be innocent of any mistake or misjudgement.
It does deny the lurid crimes you accuse it of, and the above to not support you except a number of soldiers unrepresentative enough to be highly suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 02:18 PM

But I have not made claims Jim.

YOU make lurid claims that the whole world knows are not true.
I just ask for a reason why you expect anyone to believe them.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 12:56 PM

Yet you do not offer a shred of evidence to back up your own claims, "unequivocal" or otherwise.
Isn't that a bit er…. "biased" or does that mean we can reject everything you claim – if not, why not?
Jim Carroll

CASE STUDY:
The attempted evacuation of the unrecognized village of Atir-Umm al-Hieran On 30Julv 2009, the Beer el-Sabe Magistrates' Court ordered the eviction of a number of residents from their homes in the unrecognized village of Atir - Umm al-Hieran in the Xaqab. The order is the latest in a series of eviction proceedings aimed at uprooting the village in preparation for the establishment of a new town named "Hiran," planned exclusively for Jewish residents. The land designated for Hiran includes the land on which Atir - Umm al-Hieran is located. A report by the Israel Land Administration (ILA) identifies the Arab Bedouin inhabitants of the area as a "special problem" that may affect the establishment of Hiran.137 Atir - Umm al-Hieran was established by order issued by the Israeli military governor in 1948, after the military forces had forcefully evicted
its residents from their homes and land in Wadi Zuballa. The tribe was prevented from returning to live or work on the land. This transfer was not the first time that the villagers were evicted from their homes: they were displaced in 1948 to Hirbat al-Hanzail and then to Kokheh and Abu Kaff. In 1956, the villagers were displaced for the third time to Wadi Atir, where they live today, having received assurances from the military governor that they would be permitted to remain on the land permanently. The people established the village and built permanent brick and cement homes, and worked to rebuild their familial and social lives, which had been disrupted by each expu Ision. Today, 150 families made up of around 1,000 people live in the village, all members of theAbu al-Qia'an tribe. Adalah has been defending residents of Umm al-Hieran against attempts to expel and dispossess them since 2004. On 21 October 2009, Adalah submitted an appeal against the Beer el-Sabe Magistrates' Court to the Beer el-Sabe District Court.135 In the appeal, Adalah demanded the cancellation of the eviction orders and a halt to the evacuation of the entire village.139

Another tool that the State of Israel has begun to employ for the purpose of "Judaizing" the land in the Naqab and "protecting state lands" is the establishment of what are known as "individual settlements." These settlements are inhabited, in general, by single Jewish families, which are provided with hundreds and sometimes thousands of dunams of land for their exclusive use. There are around 60 individual settlements in the Naqab, stretching over 81.000 dunams of land.14-' The government's "Wine Path Plan" seeks to establish individual settlements by retroactively legalizing these existing settlements and allowing for the construction of a number of new ones, thereby distributing vast and lucrative portions of land in the Naqab exclusively to Jewish citizens.1'1 This policy prevents equal access to the land for the entire population of the Naqab. On 30 March 2006, Adalah submitted a petition to the Supreme Court demanding the cancellation of the "Wine Path Plan".1'2 The court ruled on 15 June 2010 to uphold the planning authorities' decision to establish individual settlements, finding that the decision to approve the plan fell within planning policies and that the court had no authority to intervene. The court did not address the petitioners' arguments concerning the disparate impact of the plan, and specifically the unequal distribution of land and the discrimination against the Arab Bedouin unrecognized villages entailed by the plan. Meanwhile, on 12 July 2010, the Knesset approved a new law to legalize individual settlements retroactively, including those that lie outside the Wine Path Plan.143
Following its recent review of Israel, the UN Human Rights Committee recommended that Israel "respect the Bedouin population's right to their ancestral land and their traditional livelihood based on agriculture."144
(ibid)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 12:38 PM

B'Tselem, Israeli Human Rights organisations and numerous Israeli soldiers deny Israel's protestations of fairness and innocence.

You call them liars.

Where is your unequivocal evidence that they are lying.

Sauce for the goose mate!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 09:46 AM

Equivocal evidence is "open to two or more interpretations and often intended to mislead; ambiguous."
Of course I will not accept that.

but accept Israel's protestations of innocence without any evidence at all.

AGAIN, I do not accept any such thing.
I just say, if something is denied, it must be shown to be true.
Unequivocally.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 09:22 AM

You make unreasonable demands for "unequivocal" evidence from any critics of Israel, but accept Israel's protestations of innocence without any evidence at all.

Even juries only have to judge "beyond reasonable doubt". You set yourself above legal standards accepted throughout the civilised world.

You are BIASED!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 05:48 PM

I do not remember referring to you as an outsider, unless it was when you were trying to tell us who live here what signs are common here.

All this is just another utterly pathetic attempt to demonize me because your ludicrous claims do not stand up and are believed by no-one except a bunch of bigots within a bubble of hate.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 04:35 PM

No it wasn't Keith - you referred to me as "an outsider"; a deliberate attempt to demean what I said - you've done it on many occasions.
As I said "You do this in an attempt to undermine what I have to say; it a racist attitude which implies that foreigners have no right to offer an opinion, or that their word is to be trusted less than that of a WASP."
It is a racist, dishonest and cowardly cowardly tactic that has no place in open debate.
Why should it have any relevence to any debate - don't do it again.
Stop lying
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 04:15 PM

I remembered all that about you.
You and I are ethnically identical so you can hardly accuse me of racism towards you, silly.
When I say "your country" that is just shorthand for "your adopted country."
I am amazed I had to spell that out as if it was an issue!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 04:04 PM

Keith
I was meaning to mention this earlier, but now you seem to have abandoned all pretence of argument and resorted to calling us all bigots and naive moronic racists, I'll do so here if I have your full attention.
Several times, here and elsewhere, you have snidily suggested that I might come from somewhere other than England "Jim, both our countries restrict the freedom of nomadic people"
You even referred to me as "an outsider" on one thread.
You do this in an attempt to undermine what I have to say; it a racist attitude which implies that foreigners have no right to offer an opinion, or that their word is to be trusted less than that of a WASP.
To clarify once more - for the last time I hope.
I was born in England, I carry a British Passport and am a fully fledged British citizen.
My parents were born in Britain, my father in Scotland, my mother in Liverpool; my grandparents, - all four of them, were born in Liverpool and as far as I know their parents were.
I moved to Ireland a dozen years ago to top-and-tail thirty years research work we did on Irish songs and singers and to see if there was anything more to be gathered.
Any Irish connections my family may once have had goes back to the Famine.
You appear to want to instigate a race purity test on contributors to this forum, as well as using it to promote your vomit-provoking views - don't do it again.
I trust this will be the last time I need to mention this nasty little tactic of yours.
Jim Carroll

Speaking of which:
Case Study: The Zubeidat family—"socially unsuitable" to live in Rakefet
Ms. Fatina and Mr. Ahmed Zubeidat are a married Arab couple. They graduated from the College of Architecture at the Bezalel Academy of Arts and Design in Jerusalem with distinction, and they are both pursuing careers as architects. After marrying in 2006, the couple applied to live in the community town of Rakefet, located in Misgav
in northern Israel. The Zubeidals were looking for a small town wilh a high level of services in which to raise their future children. An admissions committee operates in Misgav, which required the couple to take an acceptance test. The committee included a representative from the Jewish Agency. Following an interview with the couple, the committee rejected their application on the humiliating grounds of their "social unsuitability". After being approached by the Zubeidats, Adalah filed a petition on their behalf to the Supreme Court in September 2007
demanding the cancellation of admissions committees.Adalah argued that the actions of these committees contradict the right of citizens to choose their place of residence. Adalah further argued that the criterion
of "social suitability" is arbitrary and open to wide interpretation. In October 2007, the court issued an injunction ordering Rakefet to set aside plot of land for the Zubeidat family pending a final decision on the petition. The petition remains pending.
Ibid

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 02:10 PM

"It is all bollocks and only you bigots inside your bubble of hatred believe all that stuff.
I DON'T THINK I have ever encountered such a level of blind racist hatred and disregard for human life, and support for persecution, war crimes and atrocities as I have from you.
I am appalled that the forum supervisors have allowed you to use this site as a platform for your truly toxic views for as long as they have.
Your cowardice in avoiding all the facts that have been put up for you without even attempting to dispute them says everything that needs to be said about you and your persistent public lying shows you appear not to have a shred of self respect
You said once you were a Christian and a teacher - god help us all - especially the kids you might have influenced
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:32 AM

The informed world does - it is only the US and its hangers on

Like Ireland?
Would your country be on such warm friendly terms with a state guilty of apartheid, crimes against humanity and civilian massacres?
Of course not.
It is all bollocks and only you bigots inside your bubble of hatred believe all that stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:28 AM

Denial is not rebuttal - you have now been given a load of information on the conditions which are forced on ethnic minorities in Israel which you are totally ignoring and, as Don pointed out you have done so throughout this thread - once again you are lying
"the world would believe them."
The informed world does - it is only the US and its hangers-on which have constantly defended them - which you have already agreed is a fact
Haven't got one eighth the way through the Inequality Report yet - more to come, as I'm sure, you're pleased to hear
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:07 AM

or convincing evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:05 AM

If you had unequivocal evidence of the lurid accusations you make against Israel, not just me but the world would believe them.
If!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:00 AM

""I don't do long posts because no-one ever reads them, so if you want me to respond to a point, do not bury it in a vast heap of lurid accusations all of which I have already rebutted anyway.""

No you haven't. You don't actually know the meaning of rebuttal.

Saying ""That's not true"", ""That's a lie,"" or ""Israel denies that"", is not a rebuttal.

You have to offer convincing (not unequivocal) evidence, which we have repeatedly done and you have not.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 10:01 AM

So of course you are not going to deal with it.... didn't think for one moment that you would, so well just have to remain in the dark as to why it is "utter bollocks"

I don't do long posts because no-one ever reads them, so if you want me to respond to a point, do not bury it in a vast heap of lurid accusations all of which I have already rebutted anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:47 AM

Whoops - two signatures
Won't bother signing this to make up for that

HEALTH
• Arab citizens of Israel can expect to live shorter lives than Jewish citizens (about four years less) and face significantly higher mortality rates, particularly after the age of 60. The rate of infant mortality among
Palestinian citizens is approximately double that among Jewish citizens, and higher still among the Arab Bedouin population in the Naqab (Negev), where it reaches more than 15 per 1,000 live births.
• While Israeli law provides that equitable, high-quality health services should be provided to all residents of Israel, various barriers —including the lack of clinics and hospitals in Arab towns and villages and limitations
on mobility —mean that Palestinian citizens are frequently unable to exercise their right to the highest sustainable standard of health.
• The health situation is most critical in the unrecognized Arab Bedouin villages in the Naqab, where health services are either limited or non-existent. The inadequate provision of health services in the unrecognized villages is a deliberate policy of neglect on the part of the state, which is seeking to evacuate them and relocate their residents, in part by creating intolerable conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:22 AM

"Your whole post is utter bollocks as usual, and far to much bollocks to deal with it all yet again."
So of course you are not going to deal with it.... didn't think for one moment that you would, so well just have to remain in the dark as to why it is "utter bollocks"
In the light of Israel's record of slaughtering refugees and other civilians, the PLO were within their rights to attempt to protect the most vulnerable from Israeli terror. I'm certainly not happy with them being there and have never defended that fact, but even if you are right that makes the killing of civilians by the Israelis the slaughter of hostages, nothing else.
Bruce
Can I remind you that, just as you have failed to explain how self-defence can possibly mean killing civilians or the age of an atrocity makes it irrelevant - you have yet to tell us why pointing out oppressive behaviour by one state excuses similar behaviour by another - and I don't suppose you ever shall
"Liars" - repetitive again - can you manage something a little more turn-onable
Jim Carroll
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:20 AM

There is no unequivocal evidence.
Plenty of "eye witnesses" after the event, but we know that Israel haters lie for political gain.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:12 AM

""I just ask for the evidence before I will believe.
I remind you that it is not just me who does not believe.""

We've covered this crap a dozen times.

You ask for it, it's given to you, you reject it out of hand.

If God told you it as true, you would call him a bigot.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:08 AM

Jim.
Your whole post is utter bollocks as usual, and far to much bollocks to deal with it all yet again.

Just this.
the fact that it was a refugee camp make it an atrocity.

Yes the PLO fighters were guilty of a war crime when they used the camp as a military position.
There was no massacre of civilians even though many lied that they had seen such a thing.
Motive, to harm Israel
Liars like you still peddle those lies for the same reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:05 AM

"And your comments about the ARAB Palestinian Homeland of Jordan?"
And your point - isn't Jordan one of Britain's strongest allies in the area and what the **** has any of this got to do with Keith's claim of equal rights for all living in Israel?
Don't know anybody here who has supported Jordan - do you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 09:02 AM

Don.
It is still among the best in world at just two things. Annexing territory which belongs to those surrounding enemies

It can't be that good or it would not still be so ridiculously tiny!

leap into a frantic denial based purely on the denials of the Israel propaganda ministry.

No denials from me, frantic or otherwise.
I just ask for the evidence before I will believe.
I remind you that it is not just me who does not believe.
None of the liberal democracies would be on friendly termes with a nation they believed to be guilty of apartheid, or crimes against humanity, or civilian massacres.
It is just a few hate filled prejudiced fanatics who need no evidence and will believe anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 08:37 AM

""yet it is still among the best in the world while its surrounding enemies are among the worst.""

It is still among the best in world at just two things. Annexing territory which belongs to those surrounding enemies, and trading on its perennial "victim" status in a cynical attempt to win the sympathy vote.

There are those who see through that. You don't,....or won't.

As for having criticised Israel, you haven't!

Oh sure, your "they aren't the worst", or "they're still among the best" do nothing more than pay lip service to the fact that they are not perfect.

In no specific instance during this discussion have you failed to leap into a frantic denial based purely on the denials of the Israel propaganda ministry.

You have not accepted a single item of evidence presented to you,in spite of the vanishingly small possibility that everybody who told of Israeli crimes could be part of your imagined world wide conspiracy against Israel.

You even categorise B'Tselem, Israeli Human Rights organisations and Israeli soldiers as anti Israel liars, not to mention Bedouins living under Israeli rule, and any other Arab who dares speak out.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 08:24 AM

Jim,

And your comments about the ARAB Palestinian Homeland of Jordan?

Care to mention the FACT that Jews are prohibited from owning ANY property there, in spite of it being 77% of the Mandate Palestine designated as a Jewish Homeland by treaties ending WW I?

Or is it OK to prohibit Jews, but not limet Moslums?

Care to talk about my Palestinian friends who were driven out of Ramallah in 1948 BECAUSE THEY WERE CHRISTIANS?

O the greater number of Jewish refugees from Arab nations (820,000) than Palestinian Muslims (640,000) that have never been compensated by the Arabs?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 07:42 AM

Your point well made - you have defended Israel's proven part in the massacre by claiming they only "failed to stop it" when in fact they played an active part in it.
On the other hand, you have defended forcibly moving Bedouins onto a poisonous site - an atrocity and described so as the UN.
You have defended the eviction of whole communities to make room for Jewish settlers - a racist crime - an atrocity.
You have attempted to pass of Jenin as "That never happened, it was a lie to discredit Israel," (08 Mar 13 - 11:21 AM") - it may or may not be a massacre, but it certainly happened and the number of civilians killed and homes destroyed, and the fact that it was a refugee camp make it an atrocity.
You have claimed that the Israeli's played no part in Sabra/Shatila and described the slaughtered refugees as "their enemies" in order to justify providing illumination for the massacre - an active part in an atrocity which you defended.
You have defended the deliberate bombing of occupied apartment blocks because resistance fighters might be hiding there - an atrocity.
Your continuous silence on the use of toxic and noxious sprays in order to back up your claim that the Bedouins are treated well in Israel is a defence of atrocities.
Your silence on the destruction of hospitals, schools and homes is defending atrocities.
Want any more - plenty to choose from?
Jim Carroll

ECONOMIC ASSETS: LAND
"• In continuation of a pattern that was established with the founding of the state in 1948, Palestinian citizens of Israel continue to be deprived of access and use of the land under long-standing and more recent land laws and policies. Furthermore, new measures —including a new land reform law from 2009 and an amendment to the Land Ordinance from February 2010 —
aim at confirming state ownership of land confiscated from Palestinians in perpetuity and blocking Palestinian restitution claims.
• Admissions committees operate in around 700 agricultural and community towns and filter out Arab applicants, on the basis of their "social unsuitability", from future residency in these towns. The operation of admissions committees contributes to the institutionalization of racially-segregated towns and villages throughout the state and perpetuates unequal access to the land.
• The Jewish National Fund (JNF) —a body with quasi-state authority that operates solely for the interests of the Jewish people and controls 13% of the land in the state —continues to wield decisive influence over land policy in Israel, having been allocated six of a total of 13 members of the newly-established Land Authority Council.
• Arab towns and villages in Israel suffer from severe overcrowding, with Arab municipalities exercising jurisdiction over only 2.5% of the total area of the state. Since 1948, the State of Israel has established approximately 600 Jewish municipalities, whereas no new Arab village, town or city has ever been built.
• While the Arab Bedouin population in the Naqab stands at around 170,000 persons, or 14% of the total population in the Naqab, the combined areas of the government-planned and newly-recognized Arab Bedouin towns and villages in the Naqab account for just 0.9% of the land in the district.
• Israel is currently intensifying its efforts to forcibly evacuate the unrecognized villages in the Naqab (referred to as "illegal clusters"), including by demolishing entire villages, as recently witnessed in the repeated demolition of the village of Al-Araqib. In pursuing this policy, the state has rejected the option of affording recognition to these villages, many of which predate the establishment of Israel. Between 75,000 and 90,000 Arab Bedouin live in the unrecognized villages in the Naqab, whom the state characterizes as "trespassers on state land".
Inequality Report

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 05:33 AM

you have defended every atrocity committed by Israel that has been mentioned on any of these threads - you have neither qualified nor produced evidence other than Israeli denials

That is another of your lies Jim.
I have never defended any atrocity by anyone.
As if anyone would.

"Qualified"? Yes.
29/7 2010
"The massacres were truly deplorable. Israeli forces should have acted to prevent them. They were disgraced by it.

I do not deny attacks on civilians but Israel does and the evidence is not there. Both sides do lie."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 05:19 AM

"I do not claim any country is perfect."
Yes you do Keith - you have defended every atrocity committed by Israel that has been mentioned on any of these threads - you have neither qualified nor produced evidence other than Israeli denials You have even admitted this.
"Why do you feel the need to do that to just one state?"
Israel is the subject of this thread, nowhere else.
"The Jewish one."
There you go again linking Israeli crimes to being "Jewish" - this thread is about Israeli behaviour - nobody but you and your merry band have in any way attempted to implicate "Jews"; to do so is deeply Antisemitic.
Your arguments might be understandable if you showed the slightest concern at the treatment of Jews, but your defence of British fascism by describing it as "harmless" shows that you don't give a toss - see: 20 Feb 13 - 01:03 PM and 20 Feb 13 - 12:41 PM

"It is very far from being the worst in the world."
So what, Israel is the subject of this thread, not the US, not Turkey, not Pinochet's Chile, not former Yugoslavia, or Haiti.... or any other nation which abuses human rights?
As shown by the Inequality Report, Israel is constitutionally an unequal state that oppresses ethnic minorities, massacres civilians and attempts to move whole communities about like chess pieces to fulfil a racist agenda.
Anyway - must rush - 'The Inequality Report' beckons.   
Jim Carroll
PS BTW I'm still very much enjoying your "fucking liar", but do you think you might make it a little stronger and perhaps add a bit of variation - it's becoming a little repetitive - and it isn't even your own invention, Joe was there first.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Mar 13 - 06:46 PM

It is a lie to say I "constantly single out the Jewish State as being above criticism."

I say again, no country is.
That includes Israel.
It has faults and I have condemned them here many times.

It is very far from being the worst in the world.
It has to deal with situations no other nation faces, yet it is still among the best in the world while its surrounding enemies are among the worst.

No other nation has its faults paraded on Mudcat on thread after thread.
Why do you feel the need to do that to just one state?
The Jewish one.

It is hard not to conclude prejudice, and bigotry.