BS: Israel condemned by UN

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 May 13 - 07:54 AM

I can find not one thing in her posts that justify "Ignorant", "Uninformed" "Bigots" "(Like Susan) Suck

And therin lies the problem, Keith. Question is whether you DIDN'T read her posts, CANNOT read her posts, IGNORED her posts, or do not comprehend the English language.

Oh, and bite me.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:16 AM

Maybe I'll start a new thread entitled Ignorant, Uninformed Bigots (Like Susan) Suck.

Yes you should.
I can find not one thing in her posts that justify "Ignorant", "Uninformed" "Bigots" "(Like Susan) Suck."

It appears to be a baseless and nasty personal attack.
Mudcat would be a much better place without you Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 May 13 - 02:51 AM

What does it say about me? That I desire justice for oppressed people?
No, we all desire that.
That I should accept your statements as somehow "gospel truth"? I never knowingly post an untruth, but no.

It says that your hatred of Israel goes beyond reason.
There are many and varied things for which you could legitimately criticise Israel and the behaviour of its government, but that is not enough for you.
You have to invent wholly spurious ones.
You do not need to take my word for it.
Google up World democracies, and there Israel will be.
Google up theocracies, and there it is not.
Likewise free and independent media, judiciary, etc.

On the other thread you accuse it of genocide!
Beyond all reason and rationality.
You just hate.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:45 PM

Great. Now we have Susan, another Arabaphobe ( more universal than an Islamaphobe I guess ) bigot for Jesus. Or perhaps for Yaweh.

I wonder if she knows that there are Arabs of a number of religious persuasions besides Islam - or cares?

Who's not much different than Amish - Jews or Arabs?

Maybe I'll start a new thread entitled Ignorant, Uninformed Bigots (Like Susan) Suck.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 19 May 13 - 04:48 PM

Greg F, That's right. The code is enforced on adherents and non-adherents alike. And if enforcement precludes civility, so be it. If you belong to a Jewish sect and you violate the code, you are ostracized, not stoned. No one expects you to convert either. They're not much different than the Amish.

I don't think I'll be tempted to come back to this thread. It's too damned long! It's nearly impossible to scroll down this far to read and post. Hey, why you start another thread and just call it "Jews Suck"?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:47 PM

"It says a lot about you though."

What does it say about me? That I desire justice for oppressed people? That I should accept your statements as somehow "gospel truth"? What more does it say about me?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 May 13 - 12:30 PM

The only democracy worthy of the name in the whole region.
The only free media in the whole region.
The only free and independent judiciary in the whole region.
"the only free country in the Middle East and North Africa" Freedom House.

These are unchallengeable statements of fact String.
You saying they are not does not really signify anything.
It says a lot about you though.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 May 13 - 12:29 PM

1. So Susan - did you actually mean to say that the "moral code"[sic] of Arabs precludes civility?

2. If so, and you wish to see someone who is an arrogant, ignorant know-it-all, look in the mirror.

(PS: You hadn't supplied your "first name" nor had we any way of ascertaining that Lepak WAS your "last name". See also 2, above)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 19 May 13 - 11:16 AM

Excuse the typos. It's difficult to type on a phone. I'm done with this conversation anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 19 May 13 - 11:09 AM

don't like being addressed by my last name like that. You're being rude because you think I disagree with you. I didn't anything about whether I condone the actions of the Israeli government. Of course, I have much more criticism for the US government because I live here. All I said is that I'd rather live in Israel than elsewhere in the Middle East. There's no need to get mean or hostile. You are obviously coming up with your opinions from the vantage point of an outsider. You are arguing in the abstract. You have no direct experience on the matter in question.

When I attended Syracuse University, I used to have a little dog that I took everywhere with me. People always engaged me in conversation about how cute my dog was. One day I was walking with Tulip on Marshall St. and an Arab man asked me about my dog. While I was chit-chatting with him, a big Arab women rushed in, accused me of sleeping with this man and then proceeded to assault me and then she ripped my shirt off right there in the street! I became the victim of open, misdirected hostility from people with a different "moral" code, one that precludes civility apparently. My poor dog was terrified- torn between her instinct to bolt and stay loyal to me at the same time.

Don't attack me just because you're arrogant, ignorant know-it-alls who don't know half as much as you think you do.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 May 13 - 10:42 AM

"The only democracy worthy of the name in the whole region.
The only free media in the whole region.
The only free and independent judiciary in the whole region.
"the only free country in the Middle East and North Africa" Freedom House.
Why can you not be honest about it String?"

Because these statements are false. It is no longer a democracy but a theocracy.
No free media, but propaganda. AIPAC makes that self-evident.
No free judiciary that imprisons Palestinians for years on flimsy and made-up charges or attempts to enforce their expansion by violent means.
A free country? For whom?

Why can you not be honest about it Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:43 AM

You would find it difficult to go to Palestine Lepak.

What passes for Palestine is a tiny strip of open prison camp on the coast and the West Bank where 500,000 Israeli settlers occupy 61% of the land, and 2.1 million Palestinians are squeezed into the rest.

68% of the UN's member countries recognise the State of Palestine as a sovereign entity, but in practical terms it doesn't and most likely never will exist.

It is, and seems likely to remain an occupied territory.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 May 13 - 08:25 PM

It so happens that I'm not going anywhere they don't know how to treat women

Better look out for the Orthodox Jews, the Chasids & the Lubavitchers (among others)then, Lepak.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 May 13 - 08:22 PM

"Interesting" article? Hardly. Just more folks who think thay are oh so witty and clever and righteous and yet are unable to recognize & comprehend the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.

Ring out ye bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 18 May 13 - 05:15 PM

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 18 May 13 - 03:00 PM

Acclaimed author, Howard Jacobson (The Finkler Question), pens an amazing essay on the end of anti-semitism:

"It's official: thanks to Stephen Hawking's Israel boycott, anti-Semitism is no more"

The Independent

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 May 13 - 02:33 PM

You wouldn't want to go to Palestine
Definitely not, but not because of Israelis!

I wish that Israel believed in free speech.
The only democracy worthy of the name in the whole region.
The only free media in the whole region.
The only free and independent judiciary in the whole region.
"the only free country in the Middle East and North Africa" Freedom House.
Why can you not be honest about it String?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 18 May 13 - 10:52 AM

It so happens that 77% of Israeli Arabs agree with you - they know how good they have it there.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 18 May 13 - 10:46 AM

Oh no, that's where you're wrong. It so happens that I'm not going anywhere they don't know how to treat women :-) I'm not a cultural relativist in that sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 May 13 - 10:27 AM

"And people who say "the Jews," don't know the Jews."

Some of the leading activists who support the boycott, disinvestment and sanction movement in criticism of Israel are Jewish in their background.

Fortunately, Israel is undergoing criticism for its warlike and aggressive behavior by increasingly more Israeli citizens.

"We're going to drop you in the Middle East, where would you like to go?"

You wouldn't want to go to Palestine since you would probably be persecuted by the Irgun,
Mossad and the Israeli military.

I wish that Israel believed in free speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 18 May 13 - 09:41 AM

Ariel

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 18 May 13 - 09:27 AM

Ok, fine. You all can say anything about Israel that you like. If someone were to show up and snatch me and say, "We're going to drop you in the Middle East, where would you like to go?" In less than 30 seconds I would say "Israel."

I believe in free speech. I don't necessarily take it personally. God bless you all. But I'm going to Israel.

And people who say "the Jews," don't know the Jews. If you have even two in one room, don't bet on a consensus- on just about anything :-) You basically have to kill Jews to shut them up. And then it's too quiet.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 13 - 09:53 AM

More recent Arab on Arab massacres outside Syria(70 000 and rising fast).
BBC today.
At least 30 people have been killed and dozens injured in two explosions outside a mosque in the Iraqi city of Baquba, north of Baghdad.

Police and medical workers say the bombs went off as people were leaving the Sunni mosque after Friday prayers.

Later, police said at least seven people were killed by a bomb at a Sunni funeral south of Baghdad.

Iraq has seen a sharp increase in Sunni-Shia sectarian violence in recent weeks.

On Thursday, at least eight people were killed when a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Shia mosque in the northern city of Kirkuk.

The mosque was being attended by relatives mourning victims of violence in the city the day before.

Hours before that, at least 12 people were killed in car bomb attacks on mainly Shia districts of the capital Baghdad.


Still doubt those Stats. String?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 13 - 05:52 AM

So Stringsinger, are you going to make up a UN condemnation and start a thread about it again?
You could hardly make a bigger fool of yourself.

Are you going to comment on who is slaughtering Arabs and Muslims, and who is not?

Don, how is the search for a single lie going?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 03 May 13 - 10:02 PM

By Jim Miklaszewski and Andrea Mitchell, NBC News

Israeli warplanes launched airstrikes against targets inside Syria on Friday, U.S. officials told NBC News.

It's believed the primary target was a shipment of weapons headed for Hezbollah in Lebanon, they said. A senior U.S. official said the airstrikes were believed to be related to delivery systems for chemical weapons.

An Israeli spokesman in Washington said that Israel would not comment specifically on the reports but said that "Israel is determined to prevent the transfer of chemical weapons or other game-changing weaponry by the Syrian regime to terrorists, especially to Hezbollah in Lebanon."

White House officials referred all questions to the Israelis.

This would be the second time this year Israel conducted airstrikes inside Syria. In January, Israeli fighter jets attacked a convoy of sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles believed on their way to Hezbollah.

Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon publicly acknowledged the January airstrike inside Syria in a joint press conference with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel in Tel Aviv on April 22. Ya'alon said any Syrian delivery of sophisticated weapons to rogue elements like Hezbollah would be a "red line" for Israel and "when they crossed this red line, we operated. We acted."

NBC News Senior Investigative Producer Robert Windrem and White House Correspondent Kristen Welker contributed to this report.

Related video: Syrian government used chemical weapons 4 times, rebels say

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 06:01 PM

If I am a liar, produce one lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 May 13 - 05:46 PM

YOU, KEITH A***HOLE, HAVE BRANDED EVERY SOURCE OF EVIDENCE WE HAVE QUOTED AS LIARS OR ANTISEMITES, and your friend BoBad has backed you all the way.

The evidence is there for all to see, that YOU are far and away more inclined to attack the source and ignore the evidence than String or anyone else on this forum.

In fact, such action is your stock in trade to the extent that you have categorised as liars and antisemites, not only Arab and Palestinian sources, but Canadian hospital staff in Gaza and Israeli soldiers and human rights organisations.

NOTHING YOU SAY CAN BE TRUSTED, AND I SHALL IGNORE ALL FUTURE POSTS FROM YOU!

YOU ARE AN INCORRIGIBLE LIAR AND BIGOT!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 02:49 AM

So nothing Don, as I thought.

Stringsinger, how can you doubt the stats. provided by Bobad when the story they tell is as true today as ever?
Look at my posts of yesterday, all quoting impeccable sources.
An Arab is a thousand times more likely to die at the hands of a brother Arab than by any Israeli.
Deny that?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:10 PM

Hard to believe this shit is still going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 13 - 08:12 AM

What do you challenge Don?
Please be specific.
(I say you can challenge nothing I have posted.)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:18 AM

""Ah John, don't sweat the Stringsinger, this is the game he plays. Any data that refutes his prejudice is propaganda yet he shamelessly quotes his own propagandists, LOL.""

Ah John, don't sweat the Bobad and Keith A, this is the game they play. Any data that refute their prejudice is propaganda yet they shamelessly quote Israeli propagandists, LOL.

And the evidence for that is scattered through every thread they post to, none more so than this one.

If you are going to castigate String for dismissing the source rather than the evidence, you might like to even handedly castigate the two acknowledged masters of the art as well.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 13 - 04:18 AM

Same Arab News piece.
BAGHDAD: Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki pointed a finger on Saturday at the civil war in neighboring Syria for the return of sectarian strife to Iraq, as a five-day wave of violence has killed 215 people.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:58 AM

Arab News April 27
A civil war pitting mainly Sunni Muslim rebels against the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad, a member of the Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam, has killed more than 70,000 people.
In Iraq, Sunni-Shiite sectarian violence, which peaked in 2006 and 2006, killed tens of thousands.
This week, 215 people have died in a wave of violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:51 AM

Non Arab, Muslim-Muslim violence.
NYT April 27
Quetta, the city in western Pakistan that has become a killing ground for Sunni sectarian death squads that hunt Shiites. So far this year they have killed almost 200 people,

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:19 AM

Arab-Arab violence Iraq, mostly Sunnis killing Shia.
Reuters May1
Violence is still well below its height in 2006-07, but provisional figures from rights group Iraq Body Count put violent deaths in April at more than 400 - the highest monthly toll since 2009. About 1,500 people have been killed this year.

Over 200 killed in last week.

BBC May1
Nearly 700 children and young people were killed in the last five months.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:40 PM

Ah John, don't sweat the Stringsinger, this is the game he plays. Any data that refutes his prejudice is propaganda yet he shamelessly quotes his own propagandists, LOL.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:21 PM

Frank, stop playing games. Try to stay on point. Nowhere do I or did I say that the the figures you dispute are accurate. I'll restate my position by recapping the posting history:
A. Bobad, posted some data and the source for that data on 4/12.
B. Stringsinger dismissed these data out-of-hand because he doesn't trust the source. He added that anyone can make up such data. But he did not actually refute them.
C. John pointed out that if data is true, the source for them does not matter. John did not take a position on the actual veracity of the data.
D. Frank (4/13) wrote that he didn't need to defend his position. But he did exactly that by attacking Bobad's source once again. His rejection of the figures did not come from empirical knowledge, but from dislike and distrust based on the politics of the source. He then hid behind a famous Disraeli quotation to bolster his rejection.
E. John suggested a better argument by Frank might be to provide data refuting Bobad's source.
F. Today Frank asked John to provide him with accurate statistics This is a red herring argument and he knows it.
G. John did not and does not know if Bobad's source is accurate, and never claimed to so know. John's only point during these three days is that Frank had not disproved the data by simply attacking the source.
H. Period...Finish!

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:40 PM

OK I'll bite. Prove to me that these statistics are correct and not a lie.
Where do they come from? Sources please.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST,John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:07 PM

Sorry, post #1300 is from me.
JotSC

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 12:04 PM

Don T.

Your question and the statements which follow are irrelevant to my post. My wrote only to point out the manner in which data is dismissed...not for its accuracy or inaccuracy, but "solely" for its source.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 11:07 AM

This source provided for proof are suspect at best. This is a source with an agenda which is not above ad hominem reporting stating that Norman Finkelstein is aiding terrorists.
A blatant lie. They are not a helpful response to anything because they can't be trusted.
As Al Franken has said about other stats, "They are pulling them out of their butts".

I don't have to defend by offering new impossible figures (it can't be done reasonably since no one knows how many casualties have occurred in any war) but to trust a source with an obvious agenda is futile. This source is hardly objective.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:41 AM

Those figures are not posted as an excuse for anything - it is you who is trying to make them that. They are posted as a helpful response to Jim who was asking to be reminded about who has been massacring civilians for 60 odd years.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 08:19 AM

Would you not agree John, that any such comparison, when used to excuse the killings by Israel, is irrelevant and invalid?

The fact that there are, or were, worse examples of killing cannot be justification of the current actions of anybody.

Also, the idea that everybody who has died at the hands of the Israeli government, the IDF, and their attack dogs the Phalangists, was klled in self defence is a gross and insupportable LIE!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 04:13 PM

So, Frank, I sense that your reaction to the figures given is an visceral, emotional reaction rather than a reasoned one. I suspect that is true for most of the posts on your side of the issue.

I reiterate, either the numbers presented are true or they are not true. If true, the affiliation of the presenter is not an issue. You may hide behind platitudes if you wish, but a source for numbers in refutation is more meaningful.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 02:57 PM

i don't need to defend my position here. The magazine that these numbers come from
are populated by writers who have a decided bias in favor of Israel's misdeeds. It is not ad-hominem to declare that they have this bias. I have not attacked any one of them personally.
I reject their ideas, however, and because of their political agenda, reject their figures.

I don't think anyone is capable of coming up with figures that determine realistically how many people have died in any given war. It's Disraeli again. "There are lies, damned lies and there are statistics."

Every dictator in the world has claimed "self-defense" as an excuse for atrocities.
That's what the word "terrorist" means in the mouths of leaders of Syria, Israel, or wherever there are people enslaved or oppressed by dictators.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 07:37 AM

"So, what you are saying is that Israel can kill another 10,965,000 before they will be guilty of any crime?"

Self defense is not a crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Apr 13 - 04:02 AM

"""some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims."""

So, what you are saying is that Israel can kill another 10,965,000 before they will be guilty of any crime?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 08:28 PM

Frank, either Gunnar Heinsohn and Daniel Pipes present accurate figures or they don't. If the figures are accurate, it doesn't matter their affiliation(s). If you want to refute them, present a source for numbers which you can accept. Ad hominum attacks don't resolve anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 03:52 PM

Keith, you never answered my question either yes or no. Are you a fundamentalist Christian who has a biblical injunction through scripture to protect Israel? If not, then at least we can get that out of the way and proceed with the discussion. The reason I ask is that you don't seem Jewish to me.

Bobad, Front Page Magazine has the usual Right-wing suspects as authors and in a blistering condemnation of Norman Finkelstein aiding terrorists, that kind of editorializing makes me suspect the figures that they show. Anyone can make up statistics and I think that's what is being done here. It sounds like more "anti-Semitism" baiting redolent of Alan Dershowitz.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 12 Apr 13 - 01:48 PM

"Remind us - which states .............have been carrying out massacres of civilians for 60 odd years?"

"some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims."

By Gunnar Heinsohn and Daniel Pipes, FrontPageMagazine, October 8, 2007