 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Pope Francis
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,Lavengro Date: 13 Mar 13 - 06:56 PM Can't believe it's four hours after he appeared on the balcony and there appear to be no Mudcat comments! Is everyone okay? :) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,Lavengro Date: 13 Mar 13 - 06:58 PM Okay, now the page has updated and I was wrong! Sorry Midchuck. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Don Firth Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:01 PM Apparently mudcat's been off-line for a few hours. I haven't been able to get on until just now. Pope Francis, at least in part, seems to be quite promising from what they've said about him on the news today (CNN). Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,mg Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:07 PM He made a good first impression..seemed nice. Not sure Francis is for Francis of Assisi..could be Francis Xavier as some have pointed out. Seems conservative on most issues but has a simple lifestyle. I do hope he continues that. I am eternally grateful the one from New York did not get it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:17 PM I'm not a Catholic, and I'm not familiar with the machinations in the choosing of a Pope. However, it seems to me that by choosing a 76-year old Cardinal, who has incessantly battled the abortion, gay rights etc. laws of Argentina, the Catholic Church is not in the mood for liberalization any time soon. I note that on some news broadcasts the new Pontiff is being referred to as Francis I. I thought that such numeration was not normally assigned until there is a namesake successor. PS--can someone delete my post titled Pope Francis which was being composed as these others came up. Thank you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: gnu Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:22 PM Indeed, the announcement "we has pictum" (forgive my poor Latin spelling) was a shocker after only 5 votes. But... while you say he is conservative in such things, the fact that he has broken tradition and chosen this particular name signals hope for change. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Ed T Date: 13 Mar 13 - 07:23 PM From the initial info., he seems like a good choice. Taking one from out of Europe and North America may better enable him to deal with and distance the church from the Child abuse topic, His focus on the poor will go over well in all areas, especially growth areas (Latin America, Africa etc), Having someone outside Europe may help the organization come to grips with inhouse management issues in Rome, Jusuits played a good part in history in Latin America, He may help bring some disinterested Latin Americans back to the church (a big growth sector), He may not tend to "shoot from the hip" on issues like the past pope, I am especially interested in his record with the past Argentian governments - and the influence it had. His experience may be closer to "the Polish pope"? Maybe his first state visit wil be to the Islas Malvinas:) On the downside, he does not seem progressive on gay, womens and contraception issues - but I suspect few candidates would be much different on these issues. But, he is no "Mother Teresa" - but that may not be a bad thing, according to some information supplied by some Mudcat posters. Associated press |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: michaelr Date: 13 Mar 13 - 08:03 PM Re: Mother Teresa - I seem to recall a post calling her wicked. Ed T, can you point me to that "information supplied by some Mudcat posters"? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Bobert Date: 13 Mar 13 - 08:05 PM No wonder those calls from the Vatican quit poppin' up on my caller ID... B;~) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: gnu Date: 13 Mar 13 - 08:09 PM I think it's a wait and see. Fact is, there is hope he chose his name for a reason... we'll see. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:06 PM I am the "some mudcat posters" in question. I said what I said about the wicked Mother Teresa on 11 March at 8.15pm on the Catholic religion response to 'today' thread. The imaginative cardinals have picked an old man yet again. He is extremely suspicious of homosexuality, he opposes gay marriage, he opposes contraception and he opposes abortion. It is very touching to read that his choice of name may signal a new beginning. Talk about clutching at straws. Another grim deal for Catholics the world over. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: bobad Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:08 PM It seems old Frankie boy has some skeletons in his closet: " The extent of the church's complicity in the dark deeds was excellently set out by Horacio Verbitsky, one of Argentina's most notable journalists, in his book El Silencio (Silence). He recounts how the Argentinian navy with the connivance of Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, now the Jesuit archbishop of Buenos Aires, hid from a visiting delegation of the Inter-American Human Rights Commission the dictatorship's political prisoners. Bergoglio was hiding them in nothing less than his holiday home in an island called El Silencio in the River Plate. The most shaming thing for the church is that in such circumstances Bergoglio's name was allowed to go forward in the ballot to chose the successor of John Paul II. What scandal would not have ensued if the first pope ever to be elected from the continent of America had been revealed as an accessory to murder and false imprisonment" The Guardian |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:42 PM Jeez, so those feckless old men chose a bloke for pope who was implicated in supporting a vicious right-wing dictatorship, notorious for years for making dissidents "disappear" and for hiding political prisoners from human rights watchers. How reminiscent of Pius XI and Pius XII who, respectively, did dirty deals with Mussolini, who needed to keep the Church quiet about fascism, and who facilitated the escape of Nazi war criminals to South America (irony? You tell me!). Not to speak of literally watching out of Vatican windows as a thousand Jews were abducted and taken to death camps. And last time they selected a guy who was doomed to be smeared all though his papacy by dint of his membership of Hitler Youth. Clever buggers, these cardinals, eh? Do you think they thought we wouldn't notice? Anyone for one person, one vote? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Rapparee Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:53 PM Could also be Francis Solanus. Or any of these: Francis Blanco Francis Borgia Francis Caracciolo Francis Chieu Van Do Francis Coll Francis Dormore Francis Fasani Francis Ferdinand de Capillas Francis Galvez Francis Gil de Frederich Francis Isidore Gagelin Francis Jaccard Francis Jerome Francis Johnson Francis Man Francis Mary Paul Libermann Francis Page Francis Palau y Quer Francis Patrizzi Francis Pontillo Francis Possenti Francis Regis Clet Francis Rogaczewski Francis Seelos Francis Trung Von Tran Francis Webb Francis Xavier Francis Xavier Bianchi Francis Xavier Can Nguyen Francis Xavier Mau Francis Xavier Seelos Francis de Capillas Francis de Geronimo Francis de Hieronymo Francis de Montmorency Laval Francis de Sales Francis di Girolamo Francis of Assisi Francis of Girolamo Francis of Nagasaki Francis of Paola Francis of Saint Michael |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Bill D Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:21 PM The new pope's history is not so simple. If he had totally opposed the Argentine govt. in the 70s, I suspect he wouldn't be here today.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:31 PM Bill D--- The link doesn't work. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:35 PM If he didn't oppose a stinking military regime that made people "disappear", then he's hardly a man of principle, is he. One might have thought that that was a basic qualification for the job. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: MarkS Date: 13 Mar 13 - 10:36 PM Frances Albert Sinatra |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Mar 13 - 02:15 AM I watched the 15-minute video of the pope's introduction and first address. It was entirely in Italian, except that he gave the papal blessing in Latin. It was appropriate that he speak in Latin, since he is first the bishop of Rome and secondly the leader of the Catholic Church. My Italian isn't very good, but it did seem that his accent was quite good for an Argentinian. He made the people laugh three times during his presentation, and there was a real sweetness to the tone of the event - not a tone of authority. It would be nice to have a pope whose reign would be characterized by sweetness. That's how it should be, I think. No, you're not going to get a pope who's gung-ho in his support of contraception, homosexuals, and abortion. The best I can hope for is somebody who's tolerant and compassionate, even though he may have ideological differences from what I'd like to see. No doubt, this pope will be very strict in handling the child molestation problem. There is no longer any room for tolerance of any sort of sexual misconduct by priests. There should never have been any tolerance of such conduct. -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:22 AM 'My Italian isn't very good, but it did seem that his accent was quite good for an Argentinian.' Given his father was Italian, it shouldn't maybe not be be a complete surprise. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: fat B****rd Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:01 AM Bacon? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:21 AM Twenty two miles East of Dover? Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:27 AM Sorry about that! Couldn't resist! He seems more amiable than most, but I don't think he'll change much of what needs changing. Maybe it's just my experience, but I never found Jesuits partiularly amenable to reasoned argument, nor did they have the slightest tolerance for awkward questions. Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Musket Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:37 AM I take it Mudcat was down in order to ensure our debate didn't unduly influence the Cardinals. I wonder if this one is as infallible as the last one? zzzzzzz Ok, that was yesterday's news. Today, the newspapers are more concerned with a panda at a zoo that can't get a hard on. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Ed T Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:41 AM I suspect there are different ways to oppose a dangerous dictatorship (and continuing to remain alive and active, that is) - including activities behind the scene. That would differ from supporting and enabling such an administration. I will wait and examine what evidence comes forward as to his related actions at the time, before rushing to judgement. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Mr Happy Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:07 AM Basic qualifications for the job? Current CRB Checkable work history References None of these needed for job of pope, rc priest or nun |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Ed T Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:18 AM There is a panda at a zoo that can't get a hard on? Would that be, unassisted ? Given the age profile, there may also be a few in mudcat. But, that is old news:) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:47 AM Francis Rossi? Rockin' all round the Vatican! RtS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Rapparee Date: 14 Mar 13 - 09:49 AM Francis Heaulme? Kendall Francois? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Nigel Parsons Date: 14 Mar 13 - 09:53 AM From: Rapparee - PM Date: 13 Mar 13 - 09:53 PM Could also be Francis Solanus. Or any of these: Francis Blanco Francis Borgia Francis Caracciolo Francis Chieu Van Do Francis Coll Francis Dormore Francis Fasani Francis Ferdinand de Capillas "Francis Solanus"? Does that mean he only has one bum? Or that people thing the sun shines out of it? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Pete Jennings Date: 14 Mar 13 - 10:13 AM 22 miles East of Dover, Don? I make that somewhere in the English Channel!! 22 miles SOUTH EAST of Dover is a different story...LOL! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: The Sandman Date: 14 Mar 13 - 11:04 AM wasnt there a Francis who was nice to birds , hitler was nice to children |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: The Sandman Date: 14 Mar 13 - 11:05 AM AS LONG AS THEY WERE NOT JEWISH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Bill D Date: 14 Mar 13 - 11:13 AM Some interesting stories at the English version of The Buenos Aires Herald including this from Cardinal Dolan: "The new pope told the 114 cardinals who elected him that he had chosen the name Francis in honour of St. Francis of Assisi, who is known in Catholicism as "the little poor one" because he renounced earthly goods. There had been some speculation that since Bergoglio is a member of the Jesuit religious order, he may have chosen the name in honour of St. Francis Xavier, one of the first Jesuits. "He quickly clarified that," Dolan said." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge Date: 14 Mar 13 - 12:11 PM I `ad our local Jesuit priest in my cab last night. `e was looking very pleased with `imself, just as if `e`d done a conversion job on those atheists `oo run the betting shop. I said, "Evening Pat, you`re looking chipper. You got yourself a new rosary then?" `e said, " Nutting like that Jim. To be sure we`ve got a new Pope" I said, " I know, I just saw it on the telly. `e must be a tough old bird." `e said, "What makes you say that then, Jim?" I said, "I would`ave thought thirty minutes at Gas Mark 5 would`ave been enough but `e was cooking for over an `our!!!" Whaddam I Like?? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Mar 13 - 12:30 PM could be Francis from the Mr Ed films....? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Ed T Date: 14 Mar 13 - 12:42 PM ""could be Francis from the Mr Ed films....?"" I had nothing to do with it:) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: eddie1 Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:03 PM We've already had two "John Paul"s as Pope. The new one, although he is using "Francis" as his official name is actually called "Jorge" or "George" in English. This being so, what odds could I get. betting on the next one being "Pope Ringo"? Eddie |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:08 PM Is it really Francis? Someone pointed out that he said Francisco in some sort of announcement..should we not call him that? I don't know what he really said but shouldn't he be able to use one of his own languages, which I presume are Italian and Spanish? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:19 PM At least this new pope has a track record for advocating for the poor and social justice ( within conservative limits) and at 76 years of age is probably going to "retire" before he hits 90. That will leave the path open for more progressive Cardinals to make the next series of changes that the church needs to make to be relevent. Or else face another scism... how does the "Reformed Catholic Church" sound??? We already have the Orthodox churches left over from the breakup of the Roman Empire. So much for the actual adherance to "catholic"... as in univeral & all embracing. sigh... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Mrrzy Date: 14 Mar 13 - 01:42 PM The funny thing to me is that, as many of you know, my younger son has been called Jesus all the way through high school for looking exactly like pix of the long-blond-hair-and-beard Jesus of Renaissance art... and his middle name is Francis! So now I think he should be called Pope instead... Also, pedantic me, this pontiff isn't Pope Francis the First, he is the first Pope Francis. He won't be Francis "+ Roman Numeral One" till there is a second Francis, to be Francis II. Just like you aren't Senior till you have a Junior. "Do whatever steps you want if You have cleared them with the pontiff Everybody say his own Kyrie eleison Doin' the Vatican Rag!" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Mar 13 - 02:01 PM "I never found Jesuits partiularly amenable to reasoned argument" Is it conceivable that they might have felt that you weren't particularly amenable to reasoned argument? I've never met a Jesuit who was reluctant to carry on a reasoned argument. It almost defines them. I hoped we'd have a pope choosing Francis for a name. I hope he stays true to it. I see that Chavez's successor in Venezuela suggests that Chavez up in heaven had a lot to do with the selection... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Big Al Whittle Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:08 PM Francis was the donkey, Larry Hagman the soldier, the horse was Mr Ed.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,Bill D Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:37 PM *pedant alert* Francis was actually a mule.. *end pedant alert* |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Lighter Date: 14 Mar 13 - 05:57 PM I love this guy! According to NPR, right after he blessed the crowd, he brushed off the papal limousine and took the bus back to his hotel. On the way to the Pope Residence or whatever he carried his own bags. That's what I call taking the job seriously. I mean, who wouldn't take the limo, if you were Pope? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: bobad Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:07 PM It would have been cooler if he rode on an ass. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: catspaw49 Date: 14 Mar 13 - 06:14 PM Francis Ford Popola |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: GUEST,Lanfranc yclept Francis Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:50 PM Good name, otherwise same old same old, with the emphasis on the 'old'! Will he distribute the obscene wealth of the Catholic church to the poor of the world? Will he be instrumental in reversing his church's teaching on contraception, thereby helping to save the world from overpopulation? Will he purge the priesthood of perverts and paedophiles? Will he admit that the myths on which Christianity and Marianism are based are just that? Not a chance!! Alan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: Bill D Date: 14 Mar 13 - 07:59 PM 'Spaw! That was a bit...*giggle*...naughty... *chortle* You ought to be |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Pope Francis From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Mar 13 - 08:22 PM I'm not sure how you set about realising the wealth tied up in a bunch of cathedrals and church vestments, for example, no matter how splendid they might look. |
