BS: P.E. stops you being gay?

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans respectability
Date: 12 May 13 - 03:58 AM

Just get a room?

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 May 13 - 04:29 PM

Finally!.....Again.....and Again!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 May 13 - 03:56 PM

You know, you can make more out of a typo than anyone I know of.

But then, that's all you've got.

Goodbye, Goofball. You're boring me.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 May 13 - 03:47 PM

Don: "But I don't want to steal your rountine."

Now are making up words, TOO?????
Jeez!...And I only thought you did it to facts!

GfS

P.S. "Good night, Gracie"

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 May 13 - 02:42 PM

But I don't want to steal your rountine.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 May 13 - 11:18 AM

...and thank you Mr. firth, for your in depth analysis.


Now go consult with your political hacks, as how to twist and manipulate the truth, and demonize anyone who calls you on it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 May 13 - 02:13 AM

You're funny, GoofuS.

Skitter back under the sink now, like a good little cockroach.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 10:48 PM

Here, Don, Chanty Lass has some words, that may concern you!

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 10:39 PM

Don's off on another tangent again.

gfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 09:31 PM

A parable for the totally clueless:

Mrs. Slocum walked the whole nineteen miles down from the mountain cabin that she shared with her husband and eighteen children to the settlement infirmary. She was heavily pregnant and about to deliver.

She had made this journey every year since she and her husband had married.

After she had the baby, the doctor wrapped the newborn child in a blanket and handed him to his mother.

"Well, Mrs. Slocum, that's number nineteen, right?" said the smiling doctor.

"Yup," responded the taciturn Mrs. Slocum.

"Then I guess we'll be seeing you again next year," remarked the doctor, as she prepared to leave for the nineteen mile trek back up the mountain.

"Nope!" said Mrs. Slocum.

"Oh?" said the doctor, "You're not going to have any more children?

"Nope!" said Mrs. Slocum. "We found out what was doin' it!"

=======

People do not fall in love and get married for the sole purpose of having children. They fall in love because they find each other sexually attractive (they're wired that way), because they like each other (which is a component of, but not quite the same as love), and because they take pleasure in each other's company and have sufficient interests and beliefs in common to want to spend their lives together. Sexual activity and the pleasure it gives is natural part of such a relationship. And children are a by-product of sexual activity.

That's nature's way of perpetuating the species. But perpetuating the species is not the responsibility of every, or any particular, married couple.

However—if having a brood of babies were the only reason for getting married, then why all the research into, and the large market for, reliable birth-control products? Why do married women sometimes get abortions? Why do married people sometimes go to great lengths to be able to indulging in sex without having children?

Although children can be a wonder and a delight, and are usually wanted by married couples, sharing a life together means far more than the desire to have children.

And some people, for one reason or another, cannot have children. Does this mean they should not be allowed to get married and share their lives?

Childless couples are not always bereft of children.   Often there are nieces and nephews, neighbor's children, children of friends. And it's not at all unheard of that a childless couple can be better friends to a child than his or her own parents!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 08:06 PM

Eliza has the right of it.

And once again, GfS, your hysteria betrays you;. You've totally lost any objectivity you ever had and think you can make your arguments true by attacking and insulting me. The last refuge of person who knows he's dead wrong.

Crawl back under the sink where you belong.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 07:43 PM

Eliza: "a gay person has every right to conduct their sexual lives as they wish...."
Being as the issue is what people do with their REPRODUCTIVE organs, does that mean Including procreation with each other????

Don, you haven't 'pegged' anything..if anything you are coming apart at the seams!
I guess you think if you 'pronounce it' it becomes fact....look up 'delusional'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 May 13 - 05:50 AM

Partnered - my arthritic fingers won't behave on the keyboard this morning!

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 May 13 - 05:47 AM

Don, I agree with every word of your 06.17pm post. I would add that even NOT being 'happily partenered', but instead embarking on a course of rampant promiscuity, a gay person has every right to conduct their sexual lives as they wish. I often feel that strident and vicious verbal homophobic attacks by posters here (and elsewhere in the real world) may stem from an innate tendency towards homosexuality, of which the poster is deeply ashamed and in denial. The 'cause' of homosexuality (or any kind of sexuality!) is totally irrelevant. Whether it is a conscious 'choice' or an inherited or congenital 'condition' is absolutely of no importance or concern. It certainly does NOT need to be 'prevented', 'cured' or 'corrected', what a cheek! I have always loved cats, even as a toddler. I'm drawn to them and have always had several as pets. My mother was the same. Whether I was 'born' with this love or 'copied' my mother or 'took it upon myself' to be a cat-lover is neither here nor there. It does no harm, it gives me joy and I defend the right to be so. What pray is the difference, when you look at it objectively?

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 02:32 AM

Yup! Really got him pegged.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 02:06 AM

What????...There you go again!!!

Hey, remember you said you weren't going to engage this kind of shit with me again???..more proof that you just lie your ass off, and try to turn it around. So do yourself and Mudcat a favor, and stop your crappy exchanges with me, just because you've lost your mind, argument, point and sense of reality..OK?
You can't post with me without your ever growing nose interfering, and hitting extra letters on the keyboard!
I know it will be rough on ya', but you keep diverting the thread with your putrid, pedantic, political punditry...The politicizing of distorted takes, on the agenda driven 'findings', is a completely stupid waste of time, not to mention, you've been shot down virtually every time.....THEN you maintain that I haven't been a counselor, which if that was the case, you must be really a lot stupider than you take into account, being eaten alive by a 'charlatan'!
Fact is, this is NOT a contest. It SHOULD be an exchange of information to get to the truth....which if I'm correct, back in the 60's, your age group just 'didn't get it'...and still don't!
Idiots like you is what the 'peace movement' rebelled against, and you guys just adopted...or tried to adopt, the language....but still, just never 'got it'!

GfS

P.S....and still haven't!!!

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 12:59 AM

Your hysterical and frantic response is proof that my post was right on the mark.

'Nuff said.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 12:30 AM

Don, you post is so fucked up and loaded with putting words in people's mouths, I'd have to go line by line though it to point out your deluded deceptions.
The first part above the lines is not relevant. Nobody has said those things..except you, in saying they said it.

Below the line: Don: "Guest from Sanity, the fact that if "gay" is in the title of a thread, you go for it like a moth to a flame says a great deal more about you than it does about the subject. I don't know what your problem is, but it's obvious that you are obsessed with the subject and you will do all manner of backflips and twists to avoid any idea that same-sex orientation is inborn, whether genetic or congenital, and insist that it is a free choice. Apparently, according to you, someone wakes up in the morning and says, "Gee! I think I'll be gay!"

To bad you took it that way...it just shows how dumb you are.


Don: "And your hysterical response to anyone who insists that the scientific findings indicate that it either is genetic or at least has a genetic component, indicates your fear."

Actually this all started when, (if you remember), YOU were the one who was insisting that it was a 'Civil Rights' issue, the same as the civil rights movement based on the race issue of the 60's.....and I pointed out to you, that LEGALLY it couldn't be argued on the same basis, because the one during the 60's had to do with RACE, CREED or COLOR, as the law states....you went ape-shit trying to say it was 'genetic'...when in fact it is not genetic...and ever since you've been try to be stuffing words in my mouth, and arguing points that YOU bring up, in 'rebuttal' to things I never said..and then get into your bag of 'political trick tactics', to discredit, distract, and just be a dickhead. You care more about a political agenda..if it's right or wrong, you don't give a shit, based on facts, you don't give a shit, nor do you give a shit about the truth. If you remember, I posted "Go for the truth, and let the chips fall where they fall...but base you arguments on the truth, not a cooked up agenda, that got cooked up because of corruption. Now, is that too fucking hard?????

Don: "Then you say:
"I think ......"

There you go again....working without tools!

..oh, and I'm NOT a closet homosexual. (Stupid accusation)..besides, if I was wouldn't I be applauding you for making it 'cool' to come out of the closet???..but as it is, calling me a homosexual, as an insult to discredit, actually shows what YOU really think of them!!!! but maybe you haven't faced that reality, too...but then, if you blew off your two bed buddies, you might not have ANY friends...so I guess can see why you're so desperate!

Don: "And as far as your other claims are concerned, if you are indeed a family counselor, you have established that you haven't the vaguest knowledge of the principles of psychology and are, therefore, a charlatan."

Another stupid attempt at discrediting....You DON'T know me, and you really are making an ass of yourself....so shut the fuck up, about things you know NOTHING about. Stick to lying...THAT you know about!

Don: "GfS, you are seriously in need of help."

Should I take your advice...as from a learned, credentialed counselor??....or are you just having diarrhea of the fingers?

Don: "You attack me with childish insults and you go so far as to attack my family when you don't know anything about my family, and then on the basis of the fictions you concoct, you attack my moral character."

What moral character?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:17 PM

If a person is a happy, productive and contributing member of society, but they happen to be attracted to a member of their own sex, and if they happen to be happily partnered with another person who is similarly oriented—and if they in no way impinge on the lives of others in a negative way, then why should anyone else have anything to say about the matter?

The nature of their relationship is their business and no one else's.

And if someone else constantly yammers on about how "unnatural" or "immoral" or "disgusting" they are, that's their problem, not the problem of the same-sex couple.

=======

Guest from Sanity, the fact that if "gay" is in the title of a thread, you go for it like a moth to a flame says a great deal more about you than it does about the subject. I don't know what your problem is, but it's obvious that you are obsessed with the subject and you will do all manner of backflips and twists to avoid any idea that same-sex orientation is inborn, whether genetic or congenital, and insist that it is a free choice. Apparently, according to you, someone wakes up in the morning and says, "Gee! I think I'll be gay!"

I think the problem is that you are a closet gay and are terrified of coming out of the closet even to yourself, and are in severe denial.

And your hysterical response to anyone who insists that the scientific findings indicate that it either is genetic or at least has a genetic component, indicates your fear. You don't present any reasonable arguments against the scientific data other than to claim that it's "politics" and then you attack the person, such as me, posting the argument.

You attack me with childish insults and you go so far as to attack my family when you don't know anything about my family, and then on the basis of the fictions you concoct, you attack my moral character.

And as far as your other claims are concerned, if you are indeed a family counselor, you have established that you haven't the vaguest knowledge of the principles of psychology and are, therefore, a charlatan.

Screen writer and writer of film scores? I note that you don't mention the name or names of the films you have written or composed music for. And you may as well not try to bull anybody because one can easily look up that kind of information on the Internet Movie Data Base. Or is your script and music something you wrote on speculation and never got produced?

GfS, you are seriously in need of help.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:46 PM

Eliza: "Perhaps the homophobics here are travelling down the road of 'identifying' gay foetuses in the womb and aborting (ie murdering) them to prevent the birth of (gasp!) yet another gay abomination. I DO hope NOT!"

Gawd, I hope not!...but you never know...if it becomes politically correct, who knows what they'll come up with!

As to the twins, not all twins are identical down to the last follicle. What I am say, (well not just me), is that the pregnancy has a lot to do with setting up certain systems of the fetus. Keeping in mind, that the moods and emotions, experienced by the mother, is directly connected to the developing fetus.
Now in the case of 'receptors', they have a MAJOR influence of perception...if the mother(or anyone), is perceiving an issue, that causes a mood swing, it does not mean that she is perceiving it accurately, BUT to her, her mood is accurate and real, and true. Regardless, the hormones released, are released as if the perception is real. These hormones have a direct effect on the fetus, in several areas, and can, and does shape elements of the predisposition of the child.
I don't think this is too hard to understand. For instance, expectant mothers are advised not to drink alcohol, or smoke during pregnancy, or take drugs etc etc. It is also wise for the father, to 'cover' the expectant mother. What I mean by 'cover' is being actively involved in loving both of them, and making sure that the mother is not overly stressed out, or burdened during this time. Some of the numbskulls may disagree with this, but a woman's body and psyche, are geared and hardwired, for bearing children. That SHOULD be honored and respected, nurtured and appreciated. Instead, we have sunk to the level of 'judging' a woman's worth, by merely her looks, or how she dresses or has 'sex appeal', rather than how she performs as a loving mother....which in reality, is the crown that she wears!!

More on 'receptors', shortly but I would like to address a certain moron, who worked his delusions up from political agendas, then turns them into his realities, then bad mouths everyone who doesn't subscribe to his delusions.....

Don Firth: "Goofball, that was a cartoon character expressing everybody's opinion of your competence as a family counselor, which you have claimed to be."

Yes, I'm fully aware that you are into cartoon characters. They inspire you!

Don: "Or are you a screen writer as you have also claimed to be?"

Yes, I have written both the screen version and playwright version....

Don: "Or write film scores as you have also claimed to do?"

.....and composed the music score as well!

Don: "And on the seventh day, do you rest?"

Some people esteem one day more than another....frankly, it's all one big day!

Now go waste some more of your time thinking of snot, and snotty things!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 May 13 - 12:57 PM

One reason that geneticists have been reluctant to come on too strong about tying same-sex orientation with genetics or genetic components or a congenital condition is the fear that with so many people these days getting prenatal testing for the expected child (usually on the lookout for things such as Down's syndrome or other birth defects—or wanting to know ahead of time the sex of the child) is that if the parents know ahead of time that the child will be gay, they may opt for terminating the pregnancy. Abortion.

Now that same-sex orientation is perfectly acceptable to a large percentage of civilized people, the gay and lesbian people I'm acquainted with are perfectly happy with themselves and are leading normal, productive, fulfilling lives.

So what's the beef?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 13 - 10:49 AM

It seems that the homophobe is now arguing that being gay is congenital as opposed to genetic. Okay, let's say it is...
How is anything congenital a "lifestyle choice"?

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 May 13 - 05:41 AM

Guest-from Sanity, are you saying that the mother's moods, experiences, hormone swings, traumas or pleasures have a direct influence on the developing brain of the foetus, and therefore will produce character traits and even determine sexuality? If so, have any studies been done on identical twins, (who presumably are subject to identical influences in utero) and do they have identical personality traits after birth and in later life? Furthermore, are there examples of identical twin gay siblings? (This is all starting to sound horribly like a Mengele theory of eugenics. He apparently was most interested in twins, for equally sinister reasons.) In my experience of twins among my pupils, each pair of identical twins showed an amazing difference in their personalities. One was more timid, more withdrawn and more compliant etc while the other was invariably bolder, more confident and sometimes more naughty. I have to repeat that even if a child is 'born gay', it doesn't matter, and they can BE gay and marry etc as they wish. Whyever not? Perhaps the homophobics here are travelling down the road of 'identifying' gay foetuses in the womb and aborting (ie murdering) them to prevent the birth of (gasp!) yet another gay abomination. I DO hope NOT!

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:20 AM

Goofball, that was a cartoon character expressing everybody's opinion of your competence as a family counselor, which you have claimed to be.

Or are you a screen writer as you have also claimed to be?

Or write film scores as you have also claimed to do?

And on the seventh day, do you rest?

Don Firth

P. S. I don't know what all else you have claimed to be because, frankly, I generally don't bother to read all of your posts after I get the gist of what you are groping around and attempting to say.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 11:39 PM

Well, at least your intelligence is rising!

gfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 13 - 09:07 PM

Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack. . . .

Donald Duck

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 08:57 PM

frogprince, Your comments are understandable, and I can see your point. I'll comment on them as soon as I have more time...

As to Don Firth: ..(I just posted this in my last post): "Ignore, at this point, any half-witted blusterer trying to dispute this as a political point of view...it is strictly medical, and accurate.
I'll be back....."

Dianetics have NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about...it's just another one of your 'tactical distractions'.

I'll get back shortly.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 13 - 05:36 PM

Goofball's little dissertation on "receptors" and the mother's moods and attitudes and such being transmitted to the fetus is something I have heard before.

In 1950, science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard branched out into his own brand of psychology when he published "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health."

Hubbard maintained that things that affected the moods and attitudes of an expectant mother were perceived by the fetus and stored in the subconscious "reactive mind" as what Hubbard called "engrams." Engrams, of course, cause all kinds of psychological problems—the whole catalog—and trained "auditors" could "clear" a person (patient) of their engrams and restore them to perfect mental health.

A whole batch of people jumped on the bandwagon, took the very short course in "auditing," and set themselves up in business.

During the Fifties, I was stomping around the University of Washington campus using a pair of forearm crutches. I had several people approach me and say that if I'd sign up for several "auditing sessions," I could throw the crutches away and walk normally.

Odd! I always thought poliomyelitis was caused by a virus. I didn't know that I got it because my mother was feeling cranky when she was pregnant with me!

It wasn't long before the appropriate Medical and Psychiatric organizations declared Dianetics a "pseudoscience."

And shortly after that, Hubbard, fearing bad publicity for he and his followers, and such things as charges of malpractice, declared Dianetics to be a "religion," and called it "The Church of Scientology," thus claiming the protections of Freedom of Religion.

The rest is history.

What Goofball is saying about the mother's mood affecting the fetus through "receptors" sounds exactly like what L. Ron Hubbard was peddling in "Dianetics."

He claims he's a "family counselor." Dianetics auditor, perhaps? Or a priest in the Church of Scientology?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 08 May 13 - 03:35 PM

Gfs, just a thought or two:
In seventy years of life, I have encountered a very few people who might equal you in your tendency to spew out totally unwarrented vile things about others. Fewer still tended to besmirch the family members, of whom they they knew nothing, of those they slandered.
I have known and spent extensive time with so many hundreds of conservative-to-very-strictly-fundamentalist Christians that I don't know where to start on on actual estimate. I may disagree with a lot of their beliefs now, but very, very few of them have been habitually foul-mouthed at all. I'm aware of Fred Phelps, and Ann Coulter, but I've been largely fortunate enough to know their ilk only from the media.
In all these years, I cannot think of any single person I've encountered before who with one breath expressed a commitment to Christianity or Christian morality, and with the next breath pumped out anything like the slime that you've tried to inflict on people on a regular basis.
You may now proceed to say why you consider these observations to be idiotic.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:59 PM

Sorry, hit the wrong button.

Because 'receptors' have a function of setting up the neurological system in the fetus. Being as the fetus, is attached directly to the mother's biological system for nourishment, and the formation of all the various functions, that a child is born with....circulatory, digestion, neurological, reproductive etc etc....OK?...now when the mother is stressed, or bitter, or resentful...or even happy and calm, those emotions she is going through, and the neurological signals, are being directly sent to the fetus. The receptors, being formed, in essence, are being programmed, in the womb, to be predisposed, as to the signals they are going to respond to, once born. for instance, if something strikes you as 'funny', you laugh. Something strikes you as 'sad', you may have a 'less than happy' response....If a child is born, with a predisposition to 'resent', or resent the 'father figure', then he will be readily 'triggered', to have those 'receptors' respond and be activated, as they were in the womb..much like a child can be born with a chemical addiction, 'receptors' are predisposed to respond, but not to a physical/chemical addiction, but to an emotional 'addiction'(if you will). Upon satisfying their need, to transmit neurological signals, they then are 'gratified' by the brain releasing dopamine. This is pretty well explained in the video.

I will pick this up a little later, but A have an appointment to get ready for. Just think about what I laid out for you. It is a non biased anatomical FACT. How it ties in, I'll get into when I get back.
Ignore, at this point, any half-witted blusterer trying to dispute this as a political point of view...it is strictly medical, and accurate.

I'll be back.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:27 PM

""I do commend you, however, for at least watching the video. I think you may agree, that the segment on receptors was very illuminating....may even shed some light on the subject at hand...and that is 'receptors'.""

At last an admission of thread drift, not germane to the issue and a subject for a separate thread.

So why, given that admission, have you been regularly banging on about receptors in every gay thread?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:11 PM

Don T, You must be short on comprehension. I said that the video link is NOT about homosexuality, one way or the other, but there was a segment on 'receptors' and what they do, and how they function. The fact that the video, was dealing with different subjects, related to the different speakers, on their various subjects, really has NO bearing on what they were talking about that was not related.
I do commend you, however, for at least watching the video. I think you may agree, that the segment on receptors was very illuminating....may even shed some light on the subject at hand...and that is 'receptors'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 May 13 - 05:42 AM

So why then are all your links sourced from Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Physicists, Chemists and even an expert in "Transcendental Meditation".

What's the matter?.....Couldn't find an ALCHEMIST?

One thing these people all share, none of them knows diddly squat about genetics.

In fact, Geneticists are the one group of experts whose input you have carefully and oh so persistently excluded, not too surprisingly since they are the only ones qualified to destroy your pet idee fixe.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 12:52 AM

Nonetheless, its in the receptors, and influence of them both physiologically, and in the neurological system that is the major influence. Studies show that this influence of receptors, in a stressed mother, is the reason the hypothalamus enlarges....plus, as I've said before in different threads, and different circumstances, "The energy you put into a system, tends to change that system!"
Certain genes with certain markers tend to be more affected than others..thus the highly biased 'studies' are heralded for 'finding the magic gene'.....nope!..they found the ones more affected by stressed hormones, cause by the receptors!
Even Don's links say as much, but he didn't know what they glossed over.....besides, he WANTED to believe in was genetic, so he blinded himself to taking in ALL the information, objectively.
...and that may go for some of you 'casual observers'. What is needed, is the 'impartial observer'......then it ain't so bad...the chips fall where they fall, and don't have to answer or promote a predetermined outcome.
Sounds like science.....
Doesn't sound like political agendas!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 13 - 11:04 PM

"There is no truth in numbers"

Says it all.....

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 07 May 13 - 07:19 PM

".....t-r-u-t-h....."

Guess what; a website making a tremendous effort to appear intellectual and literate, beginning with absolutely fundamentalist presuppostions, including the certainty that all the "logic" presented will prove the initial presuppositions. The real underlying "proof" of it all? The certainty that every word of the Bible was determined by the finger of God jamming into the brain of each writer who contributed to the Bible, pouring in content which then poured out through the writer's pen unto the page.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 May 13 - 01:50 PM

Sounds like you two get a little nervous when people who you think you are influencing get closer to the truth!.....Oh, wait a minute...umm...let me see.....t-r-u-t-h.....you what??...never heard of it????
Let me help.................

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 May 13 - 11:48 PM

Sanity person has not been able to post a link that shows that they did not entirely fabricate the discourse to which they were referring (and BTW they will not be able to - but you knew that).

This individual is truly incapable of discriminating fact from fantasy.

Thus Don (and others), I really discourage any further engagement.

In some ways, it feels cruel to participate.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 13 - 06:53 PM

Anybody who is still with this thread, Google "Rockefeller's agenda for America homosexual" and look at the sort of web sites it takes you to.

That's the kind of place where Goofballupagus gets his information.

'Nuff said.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 13 - 05:13 PM

GfS, I was the one who posted that item on a previous thread a couple of years ago.

I case you missed the point, it indicates pretty clearly that one does not simply choose to change one's sexual orientation, even when it might be advantageous to do so.

Are you all right? What you've been posting recently is very erratic and self-contradictory.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 05:02 PM

Firth: "Note:   In Indonesia a few years back, the government tried to encourage homosexuality in an effort to slow Indonesia's burgeoning population problem."

Yes, and when I said the same thing, as proposed by Rockefeller's agenda for America, to model it after China's model, you objected to that position!....so make up your fucking mind!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 13 - 04:02 PM

The above article is very good. The thing that puzzles me is why GfS chose to post it. Perhaps it's because of the final paragraph, in which the author seems to be trying to negate what the previous part of the article is saying—and which, up until that point, which makes a great deal of sense from an evolutionary standpoint.

Note:   In Indonesia a few years back, the government tried to encourage homosexuality in an effort to slow Indonesia's burgeoning population problem.   Despite persuasion and offering certain encouragements to those who would "opt" to become homosexual, the attempt was a complete failure.

Despite the government offered incentives, no one "chose" to change their sexual orientation.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 01:33 PM

...and how long ago did they discover that the earth revolved around the sun??....would a later opinion change that fact?

Here's something from 2010"

"Recent Article from ScienceDaily

February 2010: Potential Evolutionary Role for Same-Sex Attraction

Male homosexuality doesn't make complete sense from an evolutionary point of view. It appears that the trait is heritable, but because homosexual men are much less likely to produce offspring than heterosexual men, shouldn't the genes for this trait have been extinguished long ago? What value could this sexual orientation have, that it has persisted for eons even without any discernible reproductive advantage?

One possible explanation is what evolutionary psychologists call the "kin selection hypothesis." What that means is that homosexuality may convey an indirect benefit by enhancing the survival prospects of close relatives. Specifically, the theory holds that homosexual men might enhance their own genetic prospects by being "helpers in the nest." By acting altruistically toward nieces and nephews, homosexual men would perpetuate the family genes, including some of their own.

Two evolutionary psychologists, Paul Vasey and Doug VanderLaan of the University of Lethbridge, Canada tested this idea for the past several years on the Pacific island of Samoa. They chose Samoa because males who prefer men as sexual partners are widely recognized and accepted there as a distinct gender category -- called fa'afafine -- neither man nor woman. The fa'afafine tend to be effeminate, and exclusively attracted to adult men as sexual partners. This clear demarcation makes it easier to identify a sample for study.

Past research has shown that the fa'afafine are much more altruistically inclined toward their nieces and nephews than either Samoan women or heterosexual men. They are willing to babysit a lot, tutor their nieces and nephews in art and music, and help out financially -- paying for medical care and education and so forth. In a new study, the scientists set out to unravel the psychology of the fa'afafine, to see if their altruism is targeted specifically at kin rather than kids in general.

They recruited a large sample of fa'afafine, and comparable samples of women and heterosexual men. They gave them all a series of questionnaires, measuring their willingness to help their nieces and nephews in various ways -- caretaking, gifts, teaching -- and also their willingness to do these things for other, unrelated kids. The findings, reported on-line this week in the journal Psychological Science, lend strong support to the kin selection idea. Compared to Samoan women and heterosexual men, the fa'afafine showed a much weaker link between their avuncular -- or uncle like -- behavior and their altruism toward kids generally. This cognitive dissociation, the scientists argue, allows the fa'afafine to allocate their resources more efficiently and precisely to their kin -- and thus enhance their own evolutionary prospects.

To compensate for being childless, each fa'afafine would have to somehow support the survival of two additional nieces or nephews who would otherwise not have existed. "If kin selection is the sole mechanism by which genes for male same-sex sexual attraction are maintained over time," the fa'afafine must be "super uncles" to earn their evolutionary keep, explains Vasey. Consequently, Vasey suggests "that the fa'afafine's avuncularity probably contributes to the evolutionary survival of genes for male same-sex sexual attraction, but is unlikely to entirely offset the costs of not reproducing."

Do these findings have any meaning outside of Samoa? Yes and no. Samoan culture is very different from most Western cultures. Samoan culture is very localized, and centered on tight-knit extended families, whereas Western societies tend to be highly individualistic and homophobic. Families are also much more geographically dispersed in Western cultures, diminishing the role that bachelor uncles can play in the extended family, even if they choose to. But in this sense, the researchers say, Samoa's communitarian culture may be more -- not less -- representative of the environment in which male same-sex sexuality evolved eons ago. In that sense, it's not the bachelor uncle who is poorly adapted to the world, but rather the modern Western world that has evolved into an unwelcoming place."

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 13 - 01:19 PM

Every one of the "References" is between 20 and 53 years old.
Not very up-to-date science.
But it sure does support a 1950's viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 12:48 PM

...and here's a list of featured speakers from different fields on the video link:

Jeffrey Satinover. Psychiatrist for over 20 years. Completed a Master's Degree as a member of the Theoretical Condensed Matter Physics group. Until recently, a teaching fellow and doctoral student in the Dept. of Physics at Yale University, where he studied supersymmetric many-body "theory" as applied to quantum computation. Author of several books that speculate on Quantum Mechanics as he applies it to conscious thought.

    David Albert. Physicist, Philosopher of Physics and Professor, Columbia University. Initially interviewed for this movie under the guise of giving a discussion on Quantum Mechanics.

    Stuart Hameroff. Professor in the Department of Anesthesiology and Psychology. Director of the Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona. 150 "peer reviewed" papers including three co-authored with Roger Penrose. Believes all his academic achievements give him the authority to violate the philosophy of science (the Scientific Method is not in a position to comment on the supernatural).

    Lynne McTaggart. Author of the book "The Field" and "What Doctors Don't Tell You". Founder and Editor of the publishing house of newsletters and books of "Alternative" health and spirituality, including the newsletter titled "What Doctors Don't Tell You". Speaks on consciousness, what she calls "new physics", and alternative medicine.

    Candace Pert. Doctorate and Post-Doctorate of Pharmacology. Educated at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. Published over 250 scientific articles on peptides and their receptors and their role in the immune system.

    Joseph Dispenza. Studied Biochemistry at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, N.J. Has a "Doctor of Chiropractic degree" from Life University. Member of the International Chiropractic Honor Society and follower of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (popularly seen as a cult). Has released a DD series, Your Immortal Brain, which "looks at the ways in which the human brain can be used to create reality through the mastery of thought." He does not hold any qualifications relevant to the field of Quantum Mechanics.

    Andrew B. Newberg. Assistant professor of Radiology at University of Pennsylvania Hospital. Physician in Nuclear Medicine. Co-author of the book "Why God won't go away: Brain Science and Biology of Belief". Has argued that the integration of science and religion is critical for a better understanding of how human beings think and behave in a global context. Trained in medical sciences as opposed to physical sciences, Dr. Newberg is not in a position to make predictions and speculation on how Quantum Mechanics works in the Macroscopic world.

    Dean Radin. Senior Scientist at the "Institute of Noetic Sciences". Serves as adjunct faculty at Sonoma State University and on the Distinguished Consulting Faculty at Saybrook Graduate School in San Fransisco. BSEE (hons) in electrical engineering from the University of Massachusetts, MS electric engineering and PhD Psychology from University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. Has an extensive list of "qualifications" in Parapsychology and "Psi" research. He is not formally qualified in Quantum Mechanics, despite his impressive resume in Electric and Electronic engineering fields.

    John Hagelin. Lecturer and "Professor of Physics" at Maharishi University of Management (which was founded by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and has been described as the practice of Transcendental Meditation as a cult as opposed to culture, and as a grandiose narcissistic dream, a form of intellectual bondage, that they call Enlightenment). "Minister of Science and Technology" of the "Global Country of World Peace". Is cited in the movie's website as holding an A.B., and M.A., and a PhD although strangely the site does not list what those degrees are in. Is specified as a "World reknowned Quantum Physicist" on the site. In actuality, his scientific credits and work continued in 1984 at the Maharishi University of Management. Began "research" in 1987, published two papers in '87 and '89, published in the "Journal of Modern Science and Vedic Science" on the "relationship between physics and consciousness".

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 12:27 PM

Here is a link that goes into these areas: (if you are REALLY interested).
Genetic Studies
Hormonal Studies
Neuroanatomic Studies
References

Have fun!...it covers the results of all the main thoughts on the subject

An excerpt:..The increasing claims of being "born that way" parallels the rising political activism of homosexual organisations, who politicise the issue of homosexual origins . In the 1970s, approximately ten percent of homosexuals claimed to be "born homosexual" according to a large scale survey.[3]
However, in a survey in the 1980s, with the homosexual rights movement increasingly becoming active, thirty-five percent claimed to be born that way.[4]"

Another except:.. "There are some homosexuals who would like to and probably could change their sexual orientation. Because some homosexual groups maintain contrary to the bulk of scientific evidence that preferential or exclusive homosexuality can never be changed, these people may be discouraged from seeking adequate psychiatric consultation. What is more deplorable is that this myth may also be accepted by some physicians...The physician who is not alert to the orientation of the homosexual patient may not challenge the belief in sexual irreversibility and arrange for appropriate referral[12]." It is possible that the Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association may review its policies due to lobbying by pro-homosexual organisations."

Another excerpt: "(c) Another factor which makes genetic theories implausible are cultural considerations relating to attitudes towards homosexual behaviour. The prevalence of such behaviour increases in cultures indifferent to such behaviour, and a casual attitude towards sex in general...


Dr. Baron, from the Department of Psychiatry, Columbia University, New York, commented in the British Medical Journal recently that " it would be difficult to envisage a change in the prevalence of a genetic trait merely in response to changing cultural norms[8] ."

....................................................................
The link that I have for the explaining how receptors work, and they do a great job, can be found at: (this link only explains how they work, it does NOT address the homosexual question....just how receptors work.
Here's the whole movie.....the part on receptors comes out post mid point Be patient, there is a lot of great stuff in here!...and NOTE the references!!!

Check it out if you wish to NOT remain unlearned in the subject other than the 'political' view, which is rather limited and skewed!!

GfS

P.S. I posted about their results more than three years ago, not from these sources..but watching it unfold as political agendas were affecting known scientific facts, and causing psychologists to adopt their views...even before their bogus, incomplete studies. That is also covered in the other link I gave you.

We'll see how many are really interested in the FACTS rather than the notion!

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 May 13 - 11:00 AM

And your post makes better sense than Ex Sane's ravings FP.

I think..........!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 May 13 - 10:58 PM

fucking brilliant fp!
hahahahahahahaha

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 05 May 13 - 10:14 PM

(whistling ducks in the wilds of existentialism, totally refusing, the flags of the lack of the normal instinct to reproduce, denying the overwhelming success of conversion therapy, symptomatic of total obliviousness to the divine inspiration of heterosexual music...idiots, idiots, idiots)

Hello, Salvidor Dali

Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 13 - 09:46 PM

(.....as everyone is exchanging e-mails, and messages discouraging each other NOT to learn anything new....besides, you know those 'know-it-alls'...they know EVERYTHING, so there is nothing they want to learn....because the know it all....but overlooked that 'ALL' is where they draw the line...that way they can stay deluded, and not have their bubble burst.....it's called 'unteachable'.....shhhh....which happens to be a symptom of a psychotic.)

Oh...just let me know.....shit, I might just post it anyway!
Hi Ake!

GfS