BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:57 PM

I refer to all liberal democracies.
All EU countries, all Scandinavian countries, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada,.....

Do any accuse Israel of terrorism?
Greg?
Jim?
Stringsinger?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 12:58 PM

Ireland?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 01:59 PM

"I refer to all liberal democracies."
It doesn't matter who the **** supports the Israeli regime, it's terrorist activities speak for themselves
Why mention Ireland - you've just confirmed (see the rapidly disappearing (not before time) that you believe all Irish and Irish Americans are all hate-filled bigoted zombies because of their having been brainwashed by a biased education system.
However politicians and businessmen regard Israel, their behaviour is condemned universally throughout the world; the only reason they haven't faced war crimes and human rights abuses charges is because they have been protected by over 100 U.S. vetoes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 02:03 PM

I refer to all liberal democracies.

Once again: DEFINE "liberal democracies".

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:06 PM

"Once again: DEFINE "liberal democracies"."
Why - what has this got to do with Israel's behaviour.
This is becoming tediously familiar.
You call Pakistanis 'Implanted perverts' and rustle up a group of "experts" who you claim agree with you.
Because a couple of those "expert" happen to be Asian, you accuse those who #disagree with you of being "racist".
Word War One - you spirit up a team of "historians" who you claim agree with you and suggest that those who disagree you accuse of being "anti-British"
The Irish Famine - you spirit up a team of "historians" again and accuse anybody who disagrees with you of being "brain-washed by biased historians and bigoted educationalists - this time placing all Irish and Irish-American children firmly in your sites - all hate-filled morons who despise Britain.
Now what have we got; the old usual - "you're an anti-Semite if you disagree with me" and surprise-surprise; a team of politician"experts" who believe Israel to be the bee's knees!!
Give us a break Keith - you can fool some of the people some of the time (in your case never) - but nobody on this forum is as thick as you believe them to be.
While I am happy to hang around and help you make another complete ass of yourself, I really believe you are quite capable of doing that under your own steam.
You have Israel's record on war crimes and human rights abuses - defend them - 'Casualty' calls.
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:25 PM

By the way - as you are fond of pointing out - this thread is specifically on one subject " Small hope for Israel/Palestine" - not on "liberal democracies", not about people "attacking me", not about being "Anti British", not about other "terrorist regimes", all of which you have attempted to introduce here - just about "Small hope for Israel/Palestine" - read the large print at the top of the page.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:29 PM

their behaviour is condemned universally throughout the world

Except by liberal democracies.
(Greg only a complete fuckwit would fail to know what that means.)

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:40 PM

only a complete fuckwit would fail to know what that means.

Once again, proving that you are one, as you can't define or explain the terms you use.

Ta.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:50 PM

הו הם

FYI ~~ that says "Ho hum!" in Hebrew.

I am afraid I don't know how to write it in Arabic too -- or I would.

~
‎מיכאל~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:21 PM

I can Greg, but everyone else understands.
I have provided a list of examples.
Here it is again,

All EU countries including Ireland, all Scandinavian countries, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada,.....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 02:45 AM

"that says "Ho hum!" in Hebrew."
Didn't take long for you to scramble back on your side of the fence Mike
My memory is't as good as it was nowadays either
That says, what a waste in English
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 03:09 AM

I'm not on any particular side of the fence in this instance, Jim. Merely commenting that we have been here time & time again to ∞; that all the usual suspects were just saying all the same things to ∞; so that the whole issue had become a complete matter of

הו הם

so why did you all keep on bothering?

Honestly can't see how or why you could interpret this comment as expressing any specific opinion on the matter in hand. But, as I have said before, like brother Paul in Football Crazy, this is a subject that seems to have "robbed you of the little bit of sense you had". No offence; just a quote that come to mind as germane.

Think I'll go back to bed.

Ho Hum!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:06 AM

"Think I'll go back to bed."
Because I wasn't taught to 'pass by on the other side' - you obviously don't share that view and prefer to sneer from the sidelines.
Keith's racist attacks have now broadened to take in the Irish, Anglo Irish - which includes me and mine.
Obviously something you don't feel worth bothering about
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:38 AM

Tune ♫♫ Birds In The Wilderness ♫♫

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh --
Welcome back to the Keith'n'Carroll Show
Keith'n'Carroll Show
Keith'n'Carroll Show
Keith'n'Carroll Show
Welcome back to the Keith'n'Carroll Show
This one will run and run

&run&run&run&run&run&run&run&run&run&ru·························

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:50 AM

"Welcome back to the Keith'n'Carroll Show"
Sneer away Mike
I have no doubt whatever that you would take exactly the same stance if Keith's target had been the Jewish people other than those nasty Muslims with 'appalling dress sense'!!
I have come to the decision that there is no place for me on a forum that allows itself to be used for persistent bile and hatred, or those who only intervene to sneer at efforts to stop it.
Go back to bed, as you suggested; I'm sure your conscience is very lonely up there without you.
I'll leave the field open to you and your friend
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 07:15 AM

By the way - i suggest you postpone the celebrations until Kieth gets back from church
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 07:15 AM

By the way - i suggest you postpone the celebrations until Kieth gets back from church
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:28 AM

"Israel's neighbour Syria right now is guilty of the worst abuses since WW2.
Who has been moved to post about it?"

Only you have been moved to cynically use it in an attempt once more to distract attention from the thread topic.

Manipulative, devious and dishonest, to say the least.

And totally in keeping with the pro Israel, regardless of its atrocious actions, attitude you have displayed ever since the Good Friday Agreement robbed you of your other game.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:33 AM

We were debating whether Israel is singled out.
I cited as evidence the fact that Israel is endlessly attacked on a plethora of threads, but there are rather few threads where countries like Syria, Egypt or other neighbours are ever attacked.
That is a reasonable observation to make in that context.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:37 AM

You are, of course, right Troubadour
I think the last time he involved himself in what was happening in Syria was in defence of Britain selling chemicals to them at the time of the Assad chemical attacks.
Defence of British arms sales is yet another of his "games" and any criticism of that becomes "anti-British", just as criticism of Israel is "anti Semitic"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:44 AM

Not true Jim.
I started the thread "Homs horror" as an all out attack on Assad.
It was YOU who tried to make it about Britain, instead of your old mates Russia and China who really did and do supply Assad with all his weaponry and munitions.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:56 AM

"I started the thread "Homs horror" as an all out attack on Assad."
You have since defended British sales of chemicals to Assad and reiterated your proposal to supply riot control equipment to his regime.
The veracity of your 'Homs Horror' thread was summed up by your dismissal of criticism of selling sniper bullets to Syria which were probably used to train the snipers shooting down women with babes in arms on the streets of Homs - I think your words were, "only a few sniper rifles" (a significat mistake on your part in revealing that you believe selling rifles for snipers was unimportant
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM

"I cited as evidence the fact that Israel is endlessly attacked on a plethora of threads, but there are rather few threads where countries like Syria,"

And if you really gave two shits about those other countries, you would start threads about them, not use them to absolve your preferred oppressors.

Your cynicism is legendary!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 11:10 AM

I did start a thread about Syria.
There was little interest, except from Jim who tried to make it about Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 11:14 AM

thread.cfm?threadid=143239&messages=757

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 11:22 AM

"I did start a thread about Syria."
Crocodile tears which exposed themselves as such when the British Arms Trade was mentioned
What is happening in Syrian is down to everyone who supported her - Britain sold small arms ammunition and supplied armoured cars and riot control equipment - both urged by you.
That was the depth of your sympathy for the Syrian opposition =- to suggest Assad be given the wherewithal to suppress it and lock its leaders in his torture chambers.
You have been given the total who have been disappeared from those torture chambers yet you have not commented once on them, nor have you responded to Britain having supplied the weaponry to put them there, other than to support it and call those of us who find it degrading to the British people - "anti-British" and are still doing so, in spite of the horrific number of fatalities, casualties and refugees brought about by Britain's friend and trading partner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 12:37 PM

Or, you could follow my link to the thread and see who is talking bollocks!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:19 PM

"Or, you could follow my link to the thread and see who is talking bollocks!"
OK - how about these for size

"That explains why the Libyan security forces have been putting down unrest in the country with plenty of rubber bullets, tear gas and other ammunition to a considerable degree British made.
The UK was still selling arms to Libya just four months before Colonel Gaddafi turned them on his own people, with government ministers approving a deal for sniper rifles, bullets and tear gas".

"Official figures show that since 2009, Britain approved export licences worth £2.3billion to 16 states over a 21-month period.
Military export licenses to Libya alone since the start of 2009 totalled £61.3million, according to Department for Business figures. The UK also awarded Bahrain £6million of licences covering submachine guns, sniper rifles, CS hand grenades, smoke canisters, stun grenades and riot control agents. At least 26 citizens have been killed and 1,000 injured as the Gulf state cracked down on freedom campaigners. Britain also approved arms licenses totalling £1.7billion to Saudi Arabia, £20.4million to Egypt, £276.9million to Algeria and £52.8million to the United Arab Emirates.
Body armour and night vision goggles have been approved for Yemen, SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION FOR SYRIA, and sniper rifles, aircraft components and armoured personnel carriers for Saudi Arabia. MPs on the cross-party committee admitted the Coalition government had been 'vigorously backpedalling' to revoke 156 arms export licences to the region since the 'Arab Spring' of uprisings began. But they raised concerns about sales of arms in the first place by Gordon Brown and David Cameron to authoritarian regimes, in deals which are at odds with Britain's stance on upholding human rights."

And your good self.
"You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles. The only other "weapons" supplied were armour plated buses, tear gas and water cannon."
"That would be for the sniper rifles Jim.
Britain does not make Kalashnikov rounds".
"Even liberal democracies have to deal with riots.
Non-lethal crowd control techniques are preferable to live rounds".

What point exactly are you making or have you completely flipped?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:19 PM

"Or, you could follow my link to the thread and see who is talking bollocks!"
OK - how about these for size

"That explains why the Libyan security forces have been putting down unrest in the country with plenty of rubber bullets, tear gas and other ammunition to a considerable degree British made.
The UK was still selling arms to Libya just four months before Colonel Gaddafi turned them on his own people, with government ministers approving a deal for sniper rifles, bullets and tear gas".

"Official figures show that since 2009, Britain approved export licences worth £2.3billion to 16 states over a 21-month period.
Military export licenses to Libya alone since the start of 2009 totalled £61.3million, according to Department for Business figures. The UK also awarded Bahrain £6million of licences covering submachine guns, sniper rifles, CS hand grenades, smoke canisters, stun grenades and riot control agents. At least 26 citizens have been killed and 1,000 injured as the Gulf state cracked down on freedom campaigners. Britain also approved arms licenses totalling £1.7billion to Saudi Arabia, £20.4million to Egypt, £276.9million to Algeria and £52.8million to the United Arab Emirates.
Body armour and night vision goggles have been approved for Yemen, SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION FOR SYRIA, and sniper rifles, aircraft components and armoured personnel carriers for Saudi Arabia. MPs on the cross-party committee admitted the Coalition government had been 'vigorously backpedalling' to revoke 156 arms export licences to the region since the 'Arab Spring' of uprisings began. But they raised concerns about sales of arms in the first place by Gordon Brown and David Cameron to authoritarian regimes, in deals which are at odds with Britain's stance on upholding human rights."

And your good self.
"You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles. The only other "weapons" supplied were armour plated buses, tear gas and water cannon."
"That would be for the sniper rifles Jim.
Britain does not make Kalashnikov rounds".
"Even liberal democracies have to deal with riots.
Non-lethal crowd control techniques are preferable to live rounds".

What point exactly are you making or have you completely flipped?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:32 PM

&run&run&run&run&run&run&run&run&run&ru··········

esp when Jim always prints out all his posts twice. Anyone know why he does that? We've always heard him the first time ~~ gawdelpus

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:39 PM

Jim, anyone can choose to rely on your reputation for honesty(!), or they can choose to take neither your nor my word for anything and look at the first few posts.

Then they will know which of us is spouting dishonest bollocks, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 03:06 PM

"esp when Jim always prints out all his posts twice. Anyone know why he does that? We've always heard him the first time ~~ gawdelpus"
Spineless as ever with your hit and runs Mike
You'll be picking upon typos next - plenty to choose from
At least Keith has the mindless bollocks yo stand up for what he believes in
At least it's finally brought you out of your "neutral" closet into the bright light of racist Islamophobia.
And then there were two nasty little brain-dead shits
"and look at the first few posts."
And then ignore all the rest - and your continuing suggestion that it was OK to sell Assad the wherewithal to get the opposition into his torture chambers - don't think so, do you.
11,000 people have 'disappeared'from Assad's torture chambers and you still want us to accept your view that he should be sold riot control equipment and armoured cars.
You appear to be indulging in self-harm, but at least you now have someone to hold the razor blade for you.
What a sad pair
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:32 PM

HIT ~~ So WHY do you always post twice, then, Jim?

RUN? -- Nope, Still here, waiting for an answer. No longer the least bit interested in your fatuous anti-u·no·wot on the MidEast, which we all know by yawn-inducing ❤ by this time. But have always wondered about this compulsion of yours to post your posts twice. Why DO you do it? If you don't answer, but just turn charmlessly offensive as usual, then you, not I, will be the one doing the runner, eh?

Traditional greetings, as ever

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:51 PM

& Re your tautologous oxymoron "racist islamophobia", Jim; it is not self-evidently either phobic or racist to be critical of a cultural tradition whose governments of states within whose jurisdictions forms of it are dominant and authoritative, indulge in a variety of practices of a capitally or corporally punitive nature which are not practised or approved of, in states where what most people outside them [particularly those of your generally expressed persuasions, Jim!], whose inhabitants do not regard them as appropriate to the usages of decent C21 society: particularly for many offences which are not even defined as illegal in most such parts of the world. Are you going to defend the treatment notoriously meted out to adultresses, blasphemers, apostates, in such countries as Saudi, Yemen, parts of Malaysia, Pakistan, N Nigeria, &c. If not, then why are not you 'islamophobically racist' too?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 03:22 AM

It is not racist to hate Governments - we would be lesser human beings if we let them do what they do without challenging them.
It is deeply racist to apply that hatred and criticism to the people they claim to represent - which is what you are doing now and what Keith does constantly with his "implant" and "brainwashing" shit.
Every religion carries with it a risk of bigotry, condemnation and hatred and to single out one as being worse that the other, or one as not being as bad at the other, as you do, promotes bigotry and hatred.
As somebody pointed out elsewhere, Christianity has probably been responsible for more persecution throughout history, than any other religion, but not because they are any worse or more fanatical, but because they have been given more of an opportunity to do so.
Blaming a basically peaceful and tolerant people, as I have found all the Muslims I have ever met to be, for the behaviour of fanatics, is bigotry and hate-mongering in the extreme.
No - I am not going to defend any of those things you mention - I never have; but I do recognise them all as being aspects of many religions, including Christianity, at one time or another, and would be again if the opportunity arose.
Why do I post twice - I don't - I never do so deliberately - people like Keith constantly complain of my long posts, so I would have to be extremely stupid in giving him twice as much to whinge about.
Where I am, the internet is extremely slow; for some reason I find this forum extremely slow to respond
I now find that I always have to save my postings before I send them (as I will do this one) because sometimes they don't post, and when I check, they have not been sent.
I'm not a particularly patient person, so occasionally I hit the button twice because I think it is taking to long - simple as that - I thought you might have worked that out for yourself - I misjudged you again, it would appear.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 07:53 AM

Maybe so, Jim. "At one time or another" perhaps -- tho I don't unquestioningly accept that assertion in regard to all the abuses I have detailed; but this is now, twenty-hundred-&-something, not 14-whatever, not any vague 'some time or other'. It's no good complaining of how unfair I am being to all those dear friends of yours in Tower Hamlets or Handsworth or Bradford. Where Sharia Law obtains, it has in practically very case been imposed by a government properly elected by due process. So you think it OK, do you, that much of today's mainstream Islam, howsoever charming many of its individual adherents of your acquaintance may be, widely persists in operating to what you admit to being a medieval [at best!] moral & jurisprudential code in the C21? You say you don't defend these practices; but appear to be saying that, as it's only some Islamists that persist in them, well that's all right then, and it's somehow 'racist' to feel otherwise. So who precisely, one might then be moved to ask, is the racist?

The point you are so lamentably failing to take on board, Jim, is that these abuses are not incidental to, or adventitiously related to, or coincidental with, Islam; but are directly and intrinsically brought about by the very tenets, self-acknowledged & widely-embraced, of that faith; by the very fact that the elected regimes concerned are Islamic ones ( of various 'races': Saudis, Malays, Nigerians, are not racially identical). So it is idiotic to dismiss as 'racist' any animadversions against Islam, any warnings of its being a potentially mischievous, anti-humane faith & philosophical system whose influence should be resisted, or at least closely monitored, by the rest of the world. Such observations are the very opposite of 'racist'.

But I know it's pissing-down-the-wind or trying-to-stop-a-bandersnatch to make the effort to get all this into the thick, doctrinaire, mind's-made-up-please-don't-confuse-me-with-facts ☠ of James Carroll, with its infallible built-in instamatic racism-detector…

Ho-hum!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 08:43 AM

"twenty-hundred-&-something"
It plays safe to limit discussion to 'the past' whenever you choose that to be
Over the last decade or so Israel have committed what they have and are still doing so in the name of Judaism (some of us think it just 'Israeli - you have indicated by your accusations that you believe it to be "Jewish - and "Anti-Semitic" to draw attention to it - but there you go).
Within my lifetime horrific abuses have taken place in the name of one religion or another - to pick on one and ignore the one is sectarian - to accuse an entire race for the crimes committed by religious fanatics or is racist perverts - is racist.
I don't believe abuses are committed by the tenets of any faith, just misuses and distortions of doctrines.
Any Christian could (and has) become a mass murderer if they followed the teaching of, say, Deuteronomy, - most people don't and Christians don't stone adulteresses or tear they eyes out of those who offend them.
You asked me once if I had ever met many Muslims - I replied I had met a few.
When I returned the question, you declined to answer.
Fine - I'll make my own assumptions on that one.
I found the people I met and worked for far more interesting, tolerant and ready to discuss both politics and religion, than I did most people, including my fellow countrymen.
I developed a shameful practice at work of never discussion race with the people I worked with, because I knew that it wold invariably lead to ugly, nasty name-calling
Something like a quarter of the people surveyed by the Daily Mail last year admitted to holding and expressing racist views.
I have never in my life, having travelled to over a dozen countries, including Muslim ones, experienced racial abuse because of my colour, belief or place of origin - wonder how many immigrants or even Britons from another country can say that?
I received my education in post-Empire Britain where we were still singing hymns that told us that to be foreign or of a different religion was to be "in error's chain"
Give us a break Mike - your bigotry is really not a lot different than the hate-mongers who preach the killing of infidels - or the sectarian thugs who will be marching a few hundred miles north of here, proudly telling us they are British and stamping on other people's beliefs.
I lived in London in the 70s and 80's when 'Christians' were placing bombs in shops, while at the same time on this side of the water other Christians who kicked with the other foot, were walking into crowded bars with machine guns and mowing down the drinkers.
Waddya want me to do - pick a side, tot up the bodies to decide which ones are the baddies and which the goodies (or maybe the less-baddies or goodies)      
As far as I'm concerned, you can all take your bigotry and stick it - that may seem unreasonable to you - from the particular side of the fence you choose to stand on.
Your childish abuse does nothing but underline your childishness
Am posting this now - hope this goes off ok, but there are probably a couple of typos for you to pick up instead
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 08:57 AM

"to accuse an entire race"
.,,.,.

Exactly where you are going wrong, Jim, &the whole of this series of idiotic posts of yours falls down ·····

ISLAM IS NOT, in any sense whatever, "A RACE"

Can you really not get that?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 09:02 AM

"When I returned the question, you declined to answer.
Fine - I'll make my own assumptions on that one."
.,,.
Sorry, Jim; must have missed that. Of course I've met many Muslims. At University; as teaching colleagues, particularly at Peckham Manor School, which had a very diverse staff; on various social occasions. I too have never found anything to object to in them individually, & several have become friends.

But as I say, our individual experiences in this limited particular are beside the point at issue.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 09:08 AM

... as is your point about the Xtn sects in Ireland. Wotaboutery is a pathetic form of argument, as you well know, & have occasionally admitted when you have now & then come up for air from this rage against the universe in which you appear for most of the time to be entrenched. Name-calling·&·abuse right back to you, Mr Pots'n'Kettles Carroll.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 09:29 AM

"ISLAM IS NOT, in any sense whatever, "A RACE"
All male Pakistanis with cultural implants are - you have chosen to defend that statement by describing it as "a misunderstanding on my part" and by persistently defending the sicko who said it as reasonable - wade in shit and you get covered with it
GET THAT please do not shout - it lowers the tone.
And no - it isn't where I am going wrong anyway.
Religious bigotry and racism are basically from the same stable - you are a religious bigot.
And neither are my points about Ireland a pathetic form of argument (except to those who have chosen sides) - and I have certainly never admitted any such thing.
Fighting groups who call themselves whatever, Christian, Muslim, Jew... whenever they claim to be killing "with God on our side"
You seem to have caught the 'denial' virus from your pupil - you argument has no substance other than that.
If you choose to direct your bile at "Muslims" rather than Muslim extremists - you really should consider voting for Farrage or Griffin in the next election - that's where your arguments are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 09:39 AM

None of your bloody biznis whom I choose to vote for. Don't be so impertinent, Jim!

This fatuity of denouncing anyone for being more critical of one religion than others really does expose your arguments in all their relativist idiocy. It's not 'religious bigotry' to regard the teaching of one particular religion as being more dangerous than that of others. Ask Mrs Rigby.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 09:48 AM

... and do you really think that "Pakistanis" is entirely synonymous with "Islam"? If not, then, quite apart from the 'cultural implant' asseveration which has caused you so much confusion over so long a period, what precisely is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:37 AM

" and do you really think that "Pakistanis" is entirely synonymous with "Islam"?"
Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?
No I do not - I think anybody who holds or supports such views is a racist - if the cap fits
I also believe that there is no difference in the outcome of both - bloody, violent, hate inspred violence and persecution.
"None of your bloody biznis whom I choose to vote for. Don't be so impertinent, Jim!"
I seem to remember your making an effort to find out what my politics were - or did I imagine that one?
I have never criticised "religion" other than to describe it as a superstition, which I believe it to be. I criticise the way religion is used to generate hate and violence, mainly by churches - no particular group comes away from that one with clean hands.
Setting a time limit and using a measuring stick on those abuses just excuses them, which it appears you are doing constantly.
The lady who died for want of an operation last year because "this is a Catholic country" is just as dead as the victims of a fanatic's suicide bomb - and the fact that Ireland has been a "Catholic country" for a very long time makes a body-count very difficult.
And please don't try hiding behind the wives of dead soldiers - there are plenty of victims on both sides - including those who were injured by rioters after the Woolwich incident, and the Asian man who was kicked to death and then burned because he took photographs of kids terrorising his family, in order to give them to the police,, or the many thousands of victims of Paki-bashing.... or any of the long-term victims of racial and sectarian abuse - there really isn't any high-ground in all this.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:55 AM

[MGM]: "ISLAM IS NOT, in any sense whatever, "A RACE"
[JC]: All male Pakistanis with cultural implants are -'
.,,.

"[M]: and do you really think that "Pakistanis" is entirely synonymous with "Islam"?"
[J]: Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?

.,,.
Where do you find this 'deliberate misunderstanding' of mine in this exchange?
.,,.
"no particular group comes away from that one with clean hands"
.,,.
Agreed -- but that doesn't mean that all such hands are eq

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:57 AM

...ually soiled. {Not sure what happened there}. YMMV, but Islamic ones seem to me by a good distance the most so.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 11:46 AM

"but that doesn't mean that all such hands are eq"
They are only if you choose to count them
I would suggest that Israeli fanaticism, backed by nuclear weapons is as threatening as it gets
I remember with a bit of a chill one of the last interviews on 'The Jews' series, when the settler described how far he believed the the borders of Israel should extend - god (wheover's) help us all.
You are still herding people - fanatics and Muslims together.
And you are refusing to acknowledge any form of bigotry and hatred, other than Muslim extremism.
We're really not getting anywhere until you stop fielding for one side - and lip-service condemnation doesn't hack it anymore - just had a wonderfully laughable example of that from Keith's 'Homs Horror' defence.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 12:03 PM

Sorry - that should read "they are if you choose not to count them"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 07:59 AM

Slow burn:-   If Jim really can't distinguish between Farage & Griffin, but brackets them together as above [7 apr, 0929 am], then he must be even more of a political booby than I had previously thought: which, believe me is saying something!.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 08:18 AM

small hope, indeed.


Meanwhile, reports Israel National News, the Palestinian Authority is again trying "unification" with terror group Hamas. As a sign of Fatah's goodwill, Saeb Erekat, the PA's top negotiator and a senior member of the Palestine Liberation Organization, called on Hamas to implement all previous agreements with Fatah in order to "fight together against Israel."
"I hereby declare, in the name of President Mahmoud Abbas and the directorate of Fatah, that Hamas is a Palestinian movement, and is not and never was a terror group," Erekat added.
That statement by Erekat is sure to raise the ire of Israel. Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza, has been implicated in dozens of terror attacks against Israelis. It is considered a terror group by America and numerous other countries.
Hamas's own charter declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.