BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 06:49 PM

One of the biggest problems for the Israelis, as to signing on, is that it came down through Kerry, representing the U.S....and the credibility of the U.S., at this time, is in the toilet....(true story).

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 05:01 PM

""Every day there are aerial bombings of cities. Each city is bombed three or four times by fighter planes," Firas, who defected from Assad's army to join the rebels fighting to topple him, said.

"Bashar [Assad] didn't take care of us. Here, in Israel, we are being taken care of. Bashar doesn't care about us, whereas Israel does. Bashar fires shells at us, he doesn't care about us at all."

Another patient, Latif, said, "They taught us about the Zionist enemy, the Zionist oppressor. But when we saw the Zionists, [we realized] they were nothing like what we'd been told. They're human beings just like us, human, and even more than that."

Read more: IDF allows first peek into secret Golan Heights field hospital | The Times of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 06:05 PM

A demoralized view.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 12:12 PM

No one wants to acknowledge it but as it was rampant in early South Africa, Israel is engaging in a policy of apartheid.

A hard-nosed, xenophobic, tribalistic, ultra-reactionary Netanyahu
has put the gullible US government into the untenable position of supporting another world war.

Expansionism was decried when the Nazi party did it but when the various dictators who are supported by a reactionary US government does it, it is justified as somehow the moral thing to do. A dictator is a dictator whether it's Assad, Pinochet, Noriega, Cici (in Egypt),
Putin, or Netanyahu with his henchman Sharon.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 03:26 AM

Of the other counties in the region, Israel is the most democratic and least dictatorial of them all, so why single them out?

Apartheid is about the treatment of minorities.
Of all the countries in the region, minorities get the best deal in Israel.
Christians for instance are being persecuted to extinction all over the region, except in Israel.
In Egypt, Bedouin are exiled to remote deserts, denied basic rights including employment rights and even citizenship, but not in Israel where they are flourishing and thriving.
Palestinians have full citizenship rights in Israel, but in neighbouring countries are still incarcerated in refugee camps after seventy years.
And then there is the Sunni/Shia sectarian violence in almost every country except Israel.
I ask again, of all the countries in the region, why have you singled them out for vilification?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 05:05 AM

Well, Keith: I have always suspected the blanket equating of anti-Israel views with antisemitism to be a disingenuous oversimplification; but there is nevertheless no doubt that antisemitism can sometimes become superficially respectable by disguising itself under an "Israel-is-not-above-criticism" cover. The answer to your question in the present instance can ∴ IMO only be 'antisemitism', pure & simple. No other explanation seems to me to cover the facts of the matter so cogently adduced in your post. Stringie, Jim, GF & the rest would do well to question the motivations for their attitudes & expressions.

But will they? Experentia docet, I greatly fear; so it seems unlikely, dunnit?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 09:33 AM

I was about to say the same Mike, not as eloquently as you of course, but I didn't want to feed the anti-semite trolls and start another flame war. Sometimes you just have to speak out against blatantly hateful accusations because doing otherwise is tantamount to condoning them. The Harvard Kennedy School poll found 77% of Israeli Arabs saying that they would rather live in the state of Israel than anywhere else in the world. Arab villages in Israel which are being proposed for exchange in a land swap deal for Jewish owned land currently in the West Bank are refusing to become part of a Palestinian state, saying that want to remain in Israel. Some apartheid eh! Oh, and as for the Nazi allusion - that speaks for itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 09:51 AM

Hey, BooBad & Co:

Being anti- the country of Israel and/or being anti- the government of Israel (both of which you mantain strenuously are not theocgratic)is hardly the being anti-Semitic. Or are you maintaining that the large number of Israeli citizens who oppose the shenanigans of the present government of Israel are anti-Semites as well?

Your usual bullshit, I see.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 11:16 AM

Why BDS wins

Apartheid is the same whether in South Africa or Israel. You don't need any polls to realize this. I don't trust anything with the name Kennedy or Harvard attached to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 12:15 PM

I take it you must be a Republican Yaleie then, String?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 02:29 PM

"If we are to look at Israeli society, it is within the academic community that we've had the most progressive pro-peace views and views that have come out in favor of seeing us as equals…. If you want to punish any sector, this is the last one to approach."

— Al-Quds University President Sari Nusseibeh

The "BDS" or "Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions" movement advocates the demonization of Israel and her actions.

Supporters of BDS are waging a political, economic, cultural, and ideological campaign to delegitimize the State of Israel.

BDS proponents make a false analogy between democratic Israel and Apartheid South Africa so as to isolate and stigmatize Israel.

Advocates of BDS deny Israel the basic human right of self-defense and blame Israel alone for conflict in the region.

BDS supporters demand self-determination for the Palestinians but do not acknowledge the right of the Jewish people to self-determination in their homeland, Israel.

BDS is just a new face for something that's been around for a very long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 05:19 PM

BDS is just a new face for something that's been around for a very long time.

Two things, acttually, that have been atound for a long time, BooBad:

1. Common Sense

2. The need to fight oppression, WHATEVER the source.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 06:26 AM

... or three, actually, Greg: add

just to spell it out for the benefit of the myopic

3. antisemitism...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 06:50 AM

About time
Jim Carroll

JOHN KERRY LABELLED 'ANTI SEMITE' FOR WARNING OF POSSIBLE BOYCOTT OF ISRAEL

John Kerry, the US secretary of state, triggered an angry backlash from Israeli leaders on Sunday after warning Israel faces an economic boycott if it failed to reach a peace accord with the Palestinians.
The uproar came as Mr Kerry held cordial talks with his Iranian counterpart, Mohammad Javad Zarif in Munich at which the pair vowed to intensify nuclear diplomacy.
Ministers in Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet accused Mr Kerry of effectively endorsing "anti-Semitic" efforts to impose sanctions on Israel by issuing the warning.
"The risks are very high for Israel," Mr Kerry told the conference. "People are talking about boycott. That will intensify in the case of failure.
"Do they want a failure that then begs whatever may come in the form of a response from disappointed Palestinians and the Arab community?"
Related Articles
While the US secretary of state's remarks were made against a backdrop of new EU regulations barring deals with Israeli businesses based in West Bank settlements, they provoked accusations that he was threatening Israel in on-going peace talks with the Palestinians.
Yuval Steinitz, the intelligence and strategic affairs minister and a close ally of Mr Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, said America's top diplomat was "holding a gun to [Israel's] head".
"The things Kerry said are hurtful, they are unfair and they are intolerable," Mr Steinitz told reporters.
"Israel cannot be expected to negotiate with a gun to its head when we are discussing the matters which are most critical to our national interests."
Naftali Bennett, the industry minister and leader of the far-Right Jewish Home party, said: "We expect of our friends in the world to stand by our side against the attempts to impose an anti-Semitic boycott on Israel, and not to be their mouthpiece."
His comments were echoed by Adi Mintz, a senior official in the Settler's Council, who accused Mr Kerry of "an anti-Semitic initiative".
"The anti-Semites have always resorted to a very simple method - hit the Jews in their pockets," he told Israel's Channel 10 TV station.
Mr Netanyahu was more restrained, telling Sunday's cabinet meeting that efforts to impose a boycott were "immoral and unjust" and doomed to fail.
The apparently choreographed chorus of criticism drew a sharp response from the US state department, which denied that Mr Kerry - who is currently trying to draw up a framework agreement between Israel and the Palestinians - was backing an international embargo.
"His only reference to a boycott was a description of actions undertaken by others that he has always opposed ," said Jen Psaki, a state department spokeswoman.
"[Mr Kerry] expected opposition and difficult moments in the process, but he also expects all parties to accurately portray his record and statements."
The row overshadowed a meeting on Sunday between Mr Kerry and Mr Zarif, Iran's foreign minister, to discuss forthcoming talks on Tehran's nuclear programme, scheduled to resume in Vienna this month.
Mr Kerry told Mr Zarif that existing international embargoes would remain in place, despite an interim deal concluded in Geneva last November that gave Iran limited sanctions relief in exchange for suspending some of its nuclear activities. The upcoming talks are aimed at achieving a definitive long-term agreement.
Mr Zarif told the Munich conference that Iran had the political will to reached a "balanced" long-term agreement with the six world powers of America, Britain, France, Russia, China and Germany.
"I think the opportunity is there, and I think we need to seize it," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 09:38 AM

Hey, M - see below re: all them antisemetic Israeli citizens, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 10:30 AM

Hey, G, right back to you: The opposition of large numbers of Israeli citizens to their own government's, in many ways culpable, behaviour with regard to the settlement of the West Bank, is in no way incompatible with its exploitation by others [who may wear the cap if it fits] for anti-Israeli comment which may well fall within the definitions of antisemitism as postulated in 2005 by EUMC (The European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia). You are being somewhat disingenuous, it seems to me.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 11:37 AM

Calling John Kerry an "anti-semite" is shameful and part of the intimidation tactics of the Netanyahu dictatorship. It's the same tactics used to refer to those who disagreed with the "dictators" as "communists" and "terrorists". The Christian reactionaries should be ashamed of themselves for their role in advocating for the razing of the Aqsa Mosque and replacing it with the one they decide is biblical.



The BDS movement is actually pro-Israel attempting to save it from a ruthless regime that would make Israel a security threat to the rest of the world. It is being supported by many Jews or those with Jewish heritage who realize the insanity of the present Netanyahu/Sharon position. Haaretz has many articles about this and is often critical of the present regime, far more than the lock-step, robot-like pronouncements of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, formerly known as the American Israeli Political Action Committee.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 02:03 PM

You are being somewhat disingenuous, it seems to me.

And you, M, by equating the opposition of a sizeable number of folks both inside and outside Israel to the present government of Israel and its policies & tactics with "antisemitism" are being more than somewhat idiotic.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 02:23 PM

Ascribing crimes like Sabra and Shatila, chemical weapons and ethnic cleansing of nomads to Jews rather the the Israeli regime is as anti-Semitic a it gets.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 02:59 PM

Neither Jews nor Israelis are guilty of any of those Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 03:23 PM

Neither Jews nor Israelis are guilty of any of those Jim.

More fantasy and denial from the king of bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 03:56 PM

Now that the "antisemitism" genie is out of the bottle, I refer you to 'non-Jewish' sources and definitions of that term. Many of the anti-Israel posters, here, have written many things that fit the definition, most especially when calling for the delegitimization of Israel. This has been a frequent suggestion at Mudcat over the past years and topics.

The three sites below are representative in defining antisemitism. The Otttawa Protocol has been adopted by many nations, I believe.

http://www.antisem.org/archive/ottawa-protocol-on-combating-antisemitism/

http://2001-2009.state.gov/g/drl/rls/56589.htm

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/fs/2010/122352.htm

I believe that most, if not all, of you are not antisemites. But if you continue to argue using antisemitic terms, then what can the rest of us think of you?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 04:21 PM

"I believe that most, if not all, of you are not antisemites."

There are some who, by most definitions except their own, definitely are.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 04:52 PM

But if you continue to argue using antisemitic terms,

How, precisely, is opposition to the atrocious policies of the present Israeli government "antisemetic"? And, once again, are those Jewish Israeli citizens who oppose these government policies also "antisemitic"?

Give me a fuckin' break, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 03:19 AM

To attribute the crimes of Israel in pursuit of its Apartheid-based policy of expansionism, criticised by Israelis and non Israelis, The United Nations, and peoples worldwide, to Jews, and not the various Israeli regimes, is the deepest form of Anti-Semitism imaginable   
If to criticise Sabra/Shatila, Bedouin ethnic cleansing, the persecution and humiliation of an impoverished people, the use of chemical weapons in hospitals and schools... and the many other crimes carried out by the Israeli's and protected by U.S. vetoes, is Anti-Semitic, the we live in a world populated by Anti-Semites, including by Anti-Semitic Jews.
The documented history of the Israeli state, over 100 vetoes protecting Israeli behaviour and a recent documentary film based on interviews with half a dozen ex heads of Mossad (one of whom pointedly stopped himself from comparing the present Israli leadership to the Nazis), are all unquestionable evidence of Israel's terrorist and human rights record.
"Neither Jews nor Israelis are guilty of any of those Jim."
For me, this would be evidence enough on its own.
Thank you for summing up the case for the prosecution so perfectly Keith - guilty as charged.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 03:37 AM

"Ascribing crimes like Sabra and Shatila, chemical weapons and ethnic cleansing of nomads to Jews rather the the Israeli regime is as anti-Semitic a it gets."

Neither Jews nor Israelis are guilty of any of those Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 03:51 AM

There have been a number of massacres of the refugees held in those camps for seventy years by their Arab jailers.
They were all committed by various Arab militia.

Bedouin are not "ethnic cleansed" in Israel.
Unlike the Egyptian Bedouin, they have full citizenship rights and protection under the law, and they are a thriving community.
They are the fastest growing population group in the whole world.

Israel has never used chemical weapons on anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:01 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/01/israel-negev-bedouins-day-of-rage
http://bedouinjewishjustice.blogspot.ie/
http://forward.com/articles/189828/desert-towns-struggle-shows-pitfalls-of-israels-po/?p=all

A United Nations committee has called for the withdrawal of the draft law that would move 30,000 Bedouin living in the Negev to permanent, existing Bedouin communities. Furthermore, the United Nations human rights chief urged Israel to reconsider a proposed law that would result in the demolition of up to 35 Bedouin villages, displacing as many as 40,000 members of these communities from their ancestral homes. "If this bill becomes law, it will accelerate the demolition of entire Bedouin communities, forcing them to give up their homes, denying them their rights to land ownership, and decimating their traditional cultural and social life in the name of development," Ms. Pillay said. According to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, the Law for the Regulation of the Bedouin Settlement in the Negev is discriminatory and would legalize racist practices. Further critics of Prawer Plan include an independent human rights organization and legal center, Adalah Adalah which works to promote and defend the rights of Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel, 1.2 million people, or 20% of the population, as well as Palestinians living in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). The center describes the Bill - which was approvedby the Israeli Knesset on 25 June 2013 with 43 votes for and 40 votes against, as discriminatory. It adds that the Bill calls for the mass expulsion of the Arab Bedouin community in the Naqab (Negev) desert in the south of Israel. If fully implemented, the Prawer-Begin Plan will result in the destruction of 35 "unrecognized"Arab Bedouin villages, the forced displacement of up to 70,000 Arab Bedouin citizens of Israel, and the dispossession of their historical lands in the Naqab. Despite the Arab Bedouin community's complete rejection of the plan and strong disapproval from the international community and human rights groups, the Prawer Plan is happening now. Adalah further elaborates that Prawer-Begin Bill is an unacceptable proposition that entrenches the state's historic injustice against its Bedouin citizens.
The European Parliament heavily criticized the plan.[9] In January 2012 hundreds of people protested the Prawer Plan, calling for the relocation of about 30,000 Beduins to recognized villages, in front of the Beersheba courthouse.[10] In September 2013 both Human Rights Watch and the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) issued statements condemning Israel's ongoing destruction of Palestinian homes and other structures, particularly in the occupied West Bank and the Negev desert in southern Israel.[citation needed]

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 06:40 AM

Bedouin are not "ethnic cleansed" in Israel.
Unlike the Egyptian Bedouin, they have full citizenship rights and protection under the law.
The community is flourishing and thriving, and they are the fastest growing population group in the whole world.
Bedouin elsewhere would gladly change places.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 10:53 AM

"Bedouin are not "ethnic cleansed" in Israel."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 01:00 PM

Repetition of a lie - proven as being such by the recent disturbances currently being reported, doesn't alter a ******* thing, but it does underline your own dishonesty.
Repetition of a lie immediately after been given unequivocal proof is indicative og galloping imbecility.
Moving nomads into ghettos where they are no longer able to follow their tradition occupations and life-styles is ethnic cleansing in anybody's book but yours apparently.
Doing so against their will is State Fascism.
Doing so in order to make room for Israeli settlers and creating ghettos of single ethnic groups is Apartheid - a fact that has been protested against by Israelis and non-Israelis.
You appear to be running true-to-form on at least three threads concurrently at the present time Keith - keep it up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 02:05 PM

All developed countries have to restrict nomadic lifestyles.
The Bedouin Israelis are flourishing and thriving, and much better off than their brethren elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 03:04 PM

Of course you do not really care about persecution.
You are completely unmoved by the far worse persecution driving ancient communities to annihilation and extinction that I am trying to get discussed on another thread.
The difference is you can't blame Jews for that persecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 03:09 PM

"All developed countries have to restrict nomadic lifestyles."
why do they?
Britain is slowly coming terms with the fact with the fact that nomadic groups exist and have to be catered for.
They started to provide acceptable halting sites with adequate facilities situated in places where Travellers could integrate into communities and still carry on their traditional life-style - they even passed laws to make persecution illegal - it was working fine until the Major Government scrapped the 1968 Caravan and Camping Act
The Bedouins don't even pose a problem in the way British Travellers once did - they have created their own communities to enable them to live in the same way they have for centuries
The Israelis are tearing those communities down, using chemicals and water cannons (there goes your riot-control equipment, which I have no doubt you are about to defend again) in some cases to do so, and evicting the rightful inhabitants into ghettos in order to create Islali Apartheid-style communities - a bunch of fascists - just like those are who support them.
You now appear to be moving away from your claim that Israel does not persecute nomads, to saying it is ok because everybody does it.
Another example of open support for racial and ethnic persecution -
You really are a little goose-stepper.
Keep it up - more for the CV
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:03 PM

Neither Britain nor Ireland nor Israel could allow nomadic shepherds to camp where they choose.
That is not persecution, and you can not deny that Bedouin Israelis are a flourishing and thriving community envied by their brethren in neighbouring lands.
It is just a convenient stick to beat Jews with.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:15 PM

"Palestinians have full citizenship rights in Israel, but in neighbouring countries are still incarcerated in refugee camps after seventy years."

Tell that to the people of Gaza or the West Bank!

I'm sure they could do with a good laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:34 PM

"The European Parliament heavily criticized the plan.[9] In January 2012 hundreds of people protested the Prawer Plan, calling for the relocation of about 30,000 Beduins to recognized villages, in front of the Beersheba courthouse.[10] In September 2013 both Human Rights Watch and the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) issued statements condemning Israel's ongoing destruction of Palestinian homes and other structures, particularly in the occupied West Bank and the Negev desert in southern Israel.[citation needed]"

It seems that the government of Israel has been drawing on the experience of their biggest ally, the one which ethnically cleansed the Native Americans to make way for their own settlers, putting the few survivors in reservations where they would be totally dependent upon their "benefactors" for food, water and all the other things they previously got from the land they OWNED.

The down side of learning the lessons of history.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:43 PM

"The difference is you can't blame Jews for that persecution."

There is the libel again. I don't see anybody blaming Jews for any of this.

The blame is directed at the Israeli government, which, unlike Iran's is not run by Rabbis, nor by Jews, but by Israeli politicians. Their religious affiliations are of zero interest to us. Their political activities directing the policies of the "STATE OF ISRAEL" are the topic under discussion.

If we could only get that point into the thick heads of those who cry "Antisemite" at every post, we might be able to discuss that topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 05:51 PM

"Neither Britain nor Ireland nor Israel could allow nomadic shepherds to camp where they choose."

We could if we had areas where they had traditionally lived and thrived for 600 years.

The Bedouin are being moved to make room for Israeli expansion, no other reason.

The state of Israel exists purely due to a claim of ancient traditional ownership, something they now deny to the Arabs,

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 01:09 AM

No developed country could allow nomadic herdsmen to wander and camp where they will.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 04:14 AM

"No developed country could allow nomadic herdsmen to wander and camp where they will."
You have been told and you know ***** do not "wander and camp where they will".
They live in settled communities and are being moved to make room for "real" Israelis - to create an apartheid state.
Most of them have occupied these areas for generations - centuries even - far longer that the State of Israel has been in existence - the Israelis are the newcomers.
The Israeli regime is behaving just as the incomers did in Australia and the U.S. in moving the natives into ghettos (reservations) .
What you are arguing is pure fascism - the right of the state over the people - to move people wherever it suits them to do.
It's what sent 600,000 of them to the Auschwitz ovens.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219
You have been hovering around fascism with your arguments for a long time - now you appear to have leapt right out of your closet.
I ask again - who do you work for BNP, UKIP, Le Pen's mob - or are you just an enthusiastic freelancer - I'm sure if you announce yourself there are plenty who would put work in your way - you appear to have the credentials.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 04:21 AM

You described them as nomads.
All developed countries have planned development.
Bedouin Israelis are not persecuted, they flourish and thrive.

Why do you care so much for these happy people, and so little for the Christians facing annihilation?
Your concern is not for people, just attacking Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 10:59 AM

Israel is attacking itself by taking a hard-nosed position on the rights of indigenous Palestinian people. They have less to fear from their paranoid view of Islam then they do themselves. Fortunately, according to many articles published by Haaretz, there are quite a few Israeli people who are critical of the Netanyahu regime and the propagandistic lies they tell. The accusations of "anti-semitism" are a smoke screen to denigrate critics of the militaristic fundamentalist right-wing Netanyahu followers that resemble Assad and Mubarak referring to their critics as "terrorists". The same tactic was used in the Fifties in America where everyone who disagreed with Joseph McCarthy was a "communist".
The smear tactics are becoming more evident as the relationship between fundamentalist Christians attempting to fulfill their delusional bible prophecies and militaristic Israelis are disclosed. BDS offers a hope for Israel, that the people there will come to their senses and realize that military blockades, high insular walls, a preponderance of weaponry and spy equipment, or land grabbing and expansion will not solve their problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 11:45 AM

"You described them as nomads."
They are nomad - all travellers tend to stick to traditional territories and have permanent centre there, usually in the areas their families came from - Kentish Gypsies, Kerry Travellers, Aberdeenshire Tinkers
"All developed countries have planned development."
What you are proposing id Fascist - the forcible movement of one ethnic group to make room for another
Even the reactionary British Tories have been forced to recognise that rights of travellers (some of them any way) - the Israelis treat them like chess-pieces to be moved at will.
"Bedouin Israelis are not persecuted, they flourish and thrive."
Yeah, I can see that from the photographs in the link I provided!!!
They weren't too happy when the Israeli dirtbags proposed moving them onto a toxic site - neither was the U.N. who raised the matter and condemned the terrorist for trying to do so.
Nor where they happy when the Israelis used toxic sprays and water-cannons on their homes and crops to move them to make room for Israeli families.
Have you ever seen the propaganda films of 'happy Jewish children' in the camps - made at the same time six million of them were being exterminated.   
You are a fascist little bollix and I'm delighted that you confirm that fact with everything you write - keep it up.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 12:22 PM

The holocaust Jews were not thriving or flourishing.
They were being driven to extinction.
Bedouin Israelis are the fastest growing population group in the world.
What kind of persecution does that?

If you cared about the Bedouin, you would be posting about their pitiful plight in Egypt.
You have no compassion, just a political imperative to attack Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 01:50 PM

Let's hear from an Israeli Bedouin, even though he probably doesn't know as much of his own situation as do our resident haters.

An Israeli-Bedouin-Arab-Muslim,Ishmael Khaldi, spoke about his childhood, describing his life herding sheep and his home until he was eight—a traditional Bedouin tent.

"We are not perfect. Nobody can ignore there is discrimination there. But the vast majority of people, and the younger generation in particular, enjoy their rights, living in the only democracy in the Middle East. I believe we're going in the right direction," Khaldi says. "People also should remember, Israel itself is a minority in the Middle East. When it comes to judging Israel, the state, which people do all the time, you have to look at all of those things."

Khaldi says he feels it is his responsibility to speak honestly about Israel, both its positives and negatives, and to dispel myths and non-truths about his homeland. When asked by an audience member how to tell good Muslims from a bad, Khaldi responded by stating his own beliefs, shared by—among many—his father, that nowhere in the Koran is violence and hatred a priority over love and peace, and to interpret the Muslim holy book that way is wrong.

Cue the haters calling him an Uncle Tom.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 02:42 PM

"Bedouin Israelis are the fastest growing population group in the world."
"Arbeit Macht Frei" appears to be what you re trying to say.
By the away BoBoo - look up the term 'kapo' if you are not already familiar with it.
I' well aware of the Bedouin Uncle Tom who has been bought off.
I will be interested to see if your fairy godmother ever has the temerity to show his face in your support ever again - fascist bastard!
Jim Carroll

Some happy Bedouins
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-begin-prawer-plan-global-protests-against-bedouin-ethnic-cleansing/5360068

Around 40,000 Bedouins are targeted. They're Israeli citizens. They're considered nonpersons. They're treated that way. They're denied all rights.

The so-called Begin-Prawer Plan (Law for Arranging Bedouin Settlement in the Negev) is ruthlessly racist. It legitimizes ethnic cleansing. It wants Bedouin land for exclusive Jewish development.

It authorizes destroying Bedouin homes. It calls for dozens of villages to be leveled. It sanctions mass ethnic cleansing on a scale not seen since 1948. Israeli authorities are trampling on the rights of their own citizens.

According to Association for Civil Rights in Israel attorney Rawia Aburabia:
Israel's plan "will cause the displacement and forced eviction of dozens of villages and tens of thousands of Bedouin residents, dispossessing them of their property and historical rights to their lands, destroying the social fabric of their communities, and sealing the fate of thousands of families into poverty and unemployment."
"All of this while the government simultaneously promotes the establishment of new Jewish communities, some of which are even slated to be built on the fresh ruins of Bedouin villages."
"Rather than displacing these communities, the government should seek a true and just solution that facilitates the inclusion of Bedouin citizens into the civil and social fabric of the Negev by recognizing the unrecognized villages and acknowledging their legal ownership rights to their lands."
"For years, the Bedouin citizens have lived in (unrecognized) villages without basic conditions while around them more and more Jewish communities are built."
"The government must decide whether to seek a true and just solution that facilitates the inclusion of Bedouin in the Negev as equal citizens or a belligerent plan, that only increases the alienation, hostility and poverty in these communities."
Bimkom is an Israeli human right group. Nili Baruch is one of its urban planners. "The key to a solution to the issue of the unrecognized villages in the Negev is planning," she said.
"A plan to formally recognize the unrecognized villages (such as the one initiated by the village residents themselves) will afford them their rights to education, health, adequate infrastructure, and sources of employment."
"Such a process would not only be the most likely to succeed, but also the most just, coming after years of neglect of the unrecognized villages, most of which have been in existence since before the state of Israel was established."
In September 2011, Netanyahu's cabinet approved Begin-Prawer. It's part of a longterm ethnic cleansing agenda. It aims to Judaize areas for exclusive Jewish development.

In June 2013, it passed its first Knesset reading. Two more are required. Final passage could come any time.
Yaron Ben Ezra heads the World Zionist Organization's settlement division. He represents its racist policy.
He calls building new Negev Jewish communities important "to prevent the continued invasion of state lands by the Bedouin and to prevent the creation of Bedouin or Arab (territorial) contiguity."
Israel considers Bedouins foreign invaders, squatters. They lived on their land for centuries before Jews arrived. It doesn't matter.
Israeli revisionists rewrite history their way. They violate international laws, standards, and fundamental democratic principles doing so.
Bedouins are considered nonpersons. They live in so-called "unrecognized villages." The term is Orwellian in its worst sense. How can real people in real communities not exist?
They're considered internal refugees. They're victims of Israel's "War of Independence." It was premeditated aggression.
Nuremberg Tribunal Chief Justice Robert Jackson called these type wars the supreme international crime against peace. Israel is flagrantly guilty multiple times. So is America.
Israel's 1965 Planning and Construction Law delegitimized Bedouin villages. It established a regulatory framework and national plan for future development.
It zoned land for residential, agricultural and industrial use. It prohibited unlicensed construction. It banned it on agricultural land.
It stipulated where Arabs and Jews could live. South African apartheid worked the same way. Israel's version is much worse. It reflects slow-motion genocide.
Palestinian communities got no room to expand. Residential land was rezoned for agricultural use.
Entire communities became unrecognized. Homes and other structures were declared illegal. At least 95% of them existed before the 1965 law passed. It didn't matter. It doesn't now.
Residential and other property on these lands are subject to demolition. Their inhabitants face displacement.
New communities are prohibited. Unrecognized ones are denied essential services.
They include clean drinking water, electricity, roads, transport, sanitation, education, healthcare, postal and telephone service, refuse removal, and more.
Under Israel's Planning and Construction Law, they're illegal. Denying fundamental rights spurns international laws and standards.
Israel's Basic Law: Human Dignity and Freedom is violated. It authorizes overturning laws contrary to dignity, life, freedom, privacy, property, and right to leave and enter Israel. It states:
"There shall be no violation of the life, body or dignity of any person. All persons are entitled to protection" to preserve them.
"There shall be no deprivation or restriction of the liberty of a person by imprisonment, arrest, extradition or otherwise."
Israeli Basic Law ignores equality. Rights apply solely to Jews. Bedouins targeted for displacement face imprisonment and fines for failing to leave.
Israel considers itself a Jewish state. Arabs are unwelcome, unwanted, unprotected, and unequal under state law.
Bedouins are nonpersons on their own land. They're considered intruders. They're denied all rights. They face constant harassment.
They face imminent loss of their homes, land, communities and freedom. Their lives are at risk when Israel targets them violently.
Negev Bedouins number up to around 100,000. They're all targeted for displacement. About 40,000 face an imminent risk.
International human rights groups condemned Begin-Prawer as blatantly racist. Philip Luther heads Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Program. Last August he said:
"The Prawer-Begin plan is a blatant example of Israel's discriminatory policies towards its Palestinian minority. It must be dropped immediately."
World leaders able to act responsibly do nothing. Israel's Bedouin displacement policy is longstanding. It followed its War of Independence.
During the early 1950s, most Negev Bedouins were relocated. A "permitted" "Siyagh" region was set aside for them. It was in Jordanian-controlled West Bank territory.
Bedouins incrementally returned to their ancestral lands. They struggled to remain there. They continue doing so.
In the late 1990s, Israel escalated efforts to remove them. Increasing numbers of demolition orders were issued.
In 2002, herbicide spraying contaminated their land. Crops were spoiled. Livestock died. Health problems surfaced.
Massive ethnic cleansing plans were drafted. They culminated in Begin-Prawer. It's a landmark racist law.
Palestinians, human rights groups, and supportive activists struggle to prevent its enactment. Tens of thousands of Bedouin futures are at stake.
On November 29, the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign urged human rights supporters to sign it anti-Begin/Prawer letter. It said in part:
"If implemented, this plan will result in the destruction of more than 35 Palestinian towns and villages in Al-Naqab (Negev) in the south of Israel and the expulsion and confinement of up to 70,000 Palestinian Bedouins."
"It means forced displacement of Palestinians from their homes and land, and systematic discrimination and separation."
"The Israeli government is pushing ahead with this plan despite the Palestinian Bedouin community's complete rejection of the plan, and condemnation from human rights groups."
Activists declared November 30 an international "day of rage." Protests were held in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza, Cairo, other regional cities, Berlin, London, Rome, Paris, the Hague, other European cities, Montreal, Toronto, Washington and elsewhere.
A Bedouin statement said:
"We are human beings and citizens, but the Prawer Plan treats us like animals who can be moved around from place to place with no consultation or regard for our wishes."
"This Saturday, we will stand with our supporters from near and afar, and call for the recognition of the villages denied recognition and for a halt to this cruel plan."
International law prohibits forced displacements. Fourth Geneva's Article 49 states:
"Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive."
Begin-Prawer is a crime against humanity. The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) says so.
Article 7 prohibits "deportation or forcible transfer of (a) population." It forbids "the crime of apartheid."
It bans "other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health."
It calls these practices "crimes against humanity." Israel turns truth on its head. It claims it wants to "modernize" and "alleviate" Bedouin conditions.
Police states operate this way. They try justifying the unjustifiable. They ignore international laws and norms.
They do it unaccountably. They enforce policy through the barrel of a gun. They do it ruthlessly.
Several Palestinian youth groups issued a statement saying:
"No one will live quietly and comfortably as long as a single family in Negev faces the threat of displacement."
"No one in this country will enjoy freedom and dignity if we Palestinians, especially in Negev, do not live in dignity on our land."
Israel prohibits the right to demonstrate. Military Order No 101 bans gatherings of more than 10 Palestinians without IDF permission.
Violators face stiff fines and imprisonment up to 10 years. It applies to Jews supporting Arabs.
On Saturday, Israeli security forces attacked peaceful protesters. They did so violently. They fired rubber bullets and stun grenades. They used batons, tear gas and skunk water. Dozens were arrested.
Arab Knesset members Ahmed al-Tibi and Jamal Zahalka joined demonstrators. Al-Tibi said:
The protest was meant to emphasize that Prawer will not pass on the ground, even if it does in the Knesset, because it's essential goal is to displace the indigenous Arabs from their towns."
"This resolution will not be respected because it is racist."
According to Zahalka:
"The plan will lead to a confrontation between Israeli and indigenous people in the Negev, and Israel will have to deal with the repercussions."
Palestinians endured Israeli repression since 1948. State-sponsored terror is official policy. Israel's democracy is fake.
Peace is a non-starter. Brutal occupation is a daily reality. World leaders able to help turn a blind eye. Palestinian suffering persists.
Tens of thousands of bedouins struggle for their futures. Land they've lived on for centuries is up for grabs. Israel wants it exclusively for Jews.
Palestinian rights don't matter. Israeli Arab citizens have few. Bedouins have none. It bears repeating. Police states operate this way. Israel is ruthlessly racist.
Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago. He can be reached at [e-mail].
His new book is titled "Banker Occupation: Waging Financial War on Humanity."
http://www.claritypress.com/LendmanII.html
Visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com.
Listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network.
It airs Fridays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.
http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour
http://www.dailycensored.com/global-protests-bedouin-ethnic-cleansing/

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 02:48 PM

"Arbeit Macht Frei" appears to be what you re trying to say.
No Jim.

Re your site.
"A 2005 article in The Jewish Tribune criticized GlobalResearch.ca as "rife with anti-Jewish conspiracy theory and Holocaust denial." B'nai Brith Canada had complained that there were comments on a forum that questioned how many Jews died in the Holocaust. Website editor Michel Chossudovsky responded that there was a disclaimer that the website was not to be held responsible for the views expressed in the forum, and he had the comment removed. He also said that he was of Jewish heritage and would be one of the last people to condone antisemitic views.[3] The same article also reported that B'nai Brith Canada wrote a letter to the University of Ottawa (Chossudovsky's former employer) asking for the university "to conduct its own investigation of this propagandist site.""

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 05:39 PM

"I will be interested to see if your fairy godmother ever has the temerity to show his face in your support ever again - fascist bastard!
Jim Carroll"
.,,.
Suppose you mean me Jim. You usually do.

Christ, but how can you bear to be such a boring old fart!

As Jane Austen put it, & I never tire of quoting: you do not "deserve the compliment of rational opposition."

So just go back to sleep, eh?, there's a dear little fellow.

Ho-hum···

☤☤☤☤☤☤

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 05:41 PM

...and

Into the Valley of Death
Rode the...