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BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read.
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Subject: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: gnu Date: 18 Jun 13 - 03:58 PM The GMO Monsanto thread has dived into a pit of shit. This is far too important to every human to have it lost in the stench. The following link leads to a 1:25h documentary on GMOs and any human that doesn't watch it and decide to do something about it condems themselves and their children and future generations to suffering and early death. Yes, I am serious. I am also serious when I ask the moderators to delete any posts that do not discuss or address the intentions of this thread... awareness and discussion of the TOPIC. This is serious shit and deserves the attention and respect due it. PLEASE - for just one time, could we silence the attention seekers and trolls that deter Mudcatters and guests from dissemination of and debate about matters that are important?... pretty please?... with sugar on it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taLw2LhPoTU&feature=youtu.be |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:34 PM I believe PBS is also running show called, "Seeds of Destruction", and is currently in rotation. You might want to check it out. gnu, on the piece you posted from YouTube, one of their tenets, is that this is a 'project' being used by the NWO, to depopulate the earth, yet Obama slipped the 'Monsanto Rider' into his Democratic budget, which exempts Monsanto from any liabilities from this product. Care to comment about that? Why would a President, who is being portrayed as a 'liberal' promote something like that? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:46 PM Whew, gn-ze... An hour and a half video??? Isn't here a condense version that highlights the main talking points... I mean, yeah... Americans ain't too healthy but is it all GMO's??? I don't think so... It's too much bad food in general... Too much fat... Too much sodium... Too much sugar... Too much "processed foods"... Too many empty calories... Bad diets = sick... My beef with GMOs is more about how it is being used to bust mom 'n pop farmers... Who benefits??? Agri-business farmers who sit in high rise buildings behind desks making millions while controlling our food... That needs to busted along with the way they farm... They are not environmentally sensitive... They pollute our water... And their food sucks... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 18 Jun 13 - 06:16 PM I have the most serious doubts about GM, to the point that I wrote a song about it 14 years ago, called Monsanto's Promise. I believe that it is impossible to put the genie back in this particular bottle. You cannot test GM safely on crops or animals, and you cannot predict the effects of letting it into the food chain. Attempts were made in the UK to isolate fields of genetically modified crops, such that cross contamination couldn't occur. Patent bullshit, given the range of movement of birds, foxes, badgers, bees, rabbits etc. etc. There's plenty of reason to ban it, but a conspiracy theory about the so-called "New World Order" using it to cull the human population? Come on lads for Christ's sake! All that does is turn your genuine doubts about the safety of GM into the ravings of an imbecile conspiracy theorist, which can, and will be ignored. Let's stick within the boundaries of reality, eh? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Jun 13 - 06:23 PM Don T: "There's plenty of reason to ban it, but a conspiracy theory about the so-called "New World Order" using it to cull the human population?" It's well known, and the video re-iterates it....SO, ...".......yet Obama slipped the 'Monsanto Rider' into his Democratic budget, which exempts Monsanto from any liabilities from this product. Why would a President, who is being portrayed as a 'liberal' promote something like that? Care to comment about that? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 18 Jun 13 - 06:42 PM Supporters of biotechnology claim that the rider doesn't give the USDA any powers that it doesn't already have, to which Michael Hansen, senior scientist at Consumers Union, emphatically responds, "No it does not!" Currently, he says, if a court finds that the USDA hasn't conducted a proper environmental impact assessment, or has somehow approved a new GMO without following proper procedures, their decision to halt planting stands. "But this rider allows farmer to continue planting the crops while the USDA's decisions are being challenged," says Hansen. Which seems to be akin to an extension of the "Innocent till proven guilty" idea. Not one I agree with, but hardly a conspiracy. As for it being an Obama inspired rider, that would be surprising if Obama's 52 Democrats managed to swing the required majority in both houses, even if the independents came on board. Don T. 52 Democrat......46 Republican......2 Independent in the senate |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:31 PM You need an intervention, GfinS... You are mentally ill with blaming everything wrong on the planet on Obama... You are psychotically obsessed... You can't post one fucking thing without making it about Obama... Must really suck to be you... Find the Obama hate thread and pitch your tent there... This thread ain't an Obama hate thread so don't trash it with your mental problems... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:31 PM Oh shit, there goes the neighbourhood. Fuck off, FFS and leave the discussion to grown-ups. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:41 PM Two questions if I may Gnu! 1. What is your take on GMO in general? 2. What is your take on the video and the way it is presented? I ask out of genuine interest, and for no ulterior reason. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 13 - 08:41 PM The portion I watched was about health effects on GMOs... Yeah, I'm sure that there are health effects but I am less concerned about the GMO than the amount of sugar, salt and false calories being pushed on Americans than the raw material... Maybe I am wrong... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM BTW, I apologize to my good friend, gn-ze, for blasting GfinS... It wasn't meant to be a thread-creep... It was meant to keep the discussion on topic and away from other topics... I am sorry, gn-ze... This is an important subject... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: gnu Date: 18 Jun 13 - 09:28 PM I read ONE post after mine... ONE POST! WTF is wrong with you people??? Would you PLEASE fuck off and allow people who actually care about this earth and their family's future to read the god damned thread and discuss the ISSUE instead of clouding it with your grandstanding LOOK AT ME MOMMY BULLSHIT? ONE post? one?... sigh................ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 13 - 09:38 PM GMOs bug me... Like I have pointed out it is a way of busting the family farm much the way we have seen both our government and then corporations destroy the American labor movement... It is theft of land... That's the way I see it... More than the DNA... Follow the $$$... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 18 Jun 13 - 09:39 PM OK Gnu! Bye bye! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: gnu Date: 18 Jun 13 - 09:49 PM Ya know what? Fuck it. I don't care. Do what yas want. I wrote the OP and that's all that matters to me. The fact that I read the next post and realized the inmates were gonna take over the asylum yet again enraged me but my rage is futile. It is better vented on the real problem. To wit.... gnightgnu*. * Apologies to anyone who actually wanted to have a real discussion. I sincerely would have welcomed hearing from you. If you do, there are far better forums to do it within. If you decide to continue discussing the topic herein, good luck with that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Jun 13 - 10:46 PM Other than gnu's video, and the one I posted('Seeds of Destruction'), is anyone aware of any other study, or report from the FDA, or an environmental impact study, that may have more light, or possibly another conclusion? It would seem to have to, for the president to include it in his budget. Anyone? GfS P.S. My posts were straight forward...with NO commentary. ..just a fair question. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Jun 13 - 10:48 PM GMOs are insidious. As an organic gardener, I'm aware that the corn that was made into products (from which the corn gluten meal I use is a by-product) was probably GMO corn. So I can use corn instead of Roundup to kill weeds, or corn instead of Scott's turf builder as fertilizer (depends on when and how much you put down), but I also know that the corn itself isn't organic. It has some problems. I'll watch the movie when I have time and get back to you on it. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Jun 13 - 10:59 PM SRS, From what I've heard, part of the GMO technology was to make the seeds, and plants impervious to 'Round Up' and other pesticides. In the course of that, it seems to have affected the food quality. You'd think there's be a study, other than one sponsored by Monsanto, (who actually wrote the rider). Just wondering if there was something else out there... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:26 AM A study should be conducted by the Department of Agriculture but of course then agri-business would buy off Congressmen who would then, in return, demand that the Department of Ag be shut down... Normal... And, of course, the usual suspect here would trash any findings in such a study as being tainted by Obama meddling... The bottom line here is that the things that agri-business is getting away with are hurting US all... If we go back to the idea that the planet is two inches of top soil away from starvation then we need to be looking at Earth-friendlier ways to produce food... That will mean returning to some basics... Soil conservation should be at the top of that list... Keeping livestock out of streams and rivers should be right up there, too... Community gardens are cropping (pun intended) everywhere and that is a very good start because people learn about growing the old fashioned way which enriches soil rather than deplete it... The fact is that we need to quit looking at current resources as something that our generation owns and therefore can use up at an alarming rate because... a. we can and... ...b. because it is more profitable... We are killing our planet... GMO's is adding to that... It's allowing for more junk to be sprayed on our field which ends up running off them into our streams, bays, oceans and we are slowly killing our planet... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bettynh Date: 19 Jun 13 - 11:40 AM I think part of the issue here should be separating the idea of GMO from the business practices of Monsanto. Stewart Brand (of Whole Earth Catalog fame) has been discussing this for awhile now (he thinks atomic energy is the way to go, too). Here's one discussion link. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 19 Jun 13 - 11:54 AM genetically modified organisms - GMO - could be a great tool in the hands of sane, rational people whose goal is to "improve" the world... or least do minimal harm. but instead it is in the hands of the bean counting a-holes whose obsession with profit leads them to kill the goose that lays the golden egg, destroy a century old salt mine despite warnings from the miners, cause oil rigs to explode & create a multi-million dollar cleanup bill... "penny wise and pound foolish" doesn't even come close to characterizing the current products of a business school education. as long as we elect politicians who pass laws protecting large corporations, we shouldn't be surprised about the ultimate outcome... copyright and patent laws that were originally written to protect the rights of individuals have been subverted to promote the goals of essentially immortal, mutli-national megacorporations. Nice going. I can only hope that more research into the various genomes will reveal the common shared metabolic pathways that are at risk by indescriminant manipulation. But to do that we need acknowledge common genetic ancestry... and that my friends means teaching evolution, not creationism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Musket Date: 19 Jun 13 - 02:35 PM Ok, where are we? Gnu throws his toys out of the pram if anybody question's his somewhat polarised stance. Don is the voice of reason. Goofus is, well, Goofus. Bridge thinks Goofus understands insults. Me? Issues with big money running such an important show as world food future, but also conceding that the world population is growing and expectation is far beyond a begging bowl in a dust bowl. If GM isn't the answer, and I am sure there are more reasons to doubt than to celebrate, what is the answer? I just bought an additive to put in the dog's water bowl that stops his piss scorching the lawn. (He is a dog but pees like a bitch, sod my luck.) Does that mean I risk having a GM modified greyhound? |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: gnu Date: 19 Jun 13 - 03:06 PM Another PM... one part : "You read one post, and instead of venting your spleen on that poster, you administered a slap in the face to the whole bunch, without even knowing, or acknowledging whether they had something pertinent to impart." Yup. I fucked up. I went Wildebeeste because I asked for a discussion and the very first post thereafter attempted to discredit Obama and asked me to entertain another discussion. I labelled everyone who posted before my second post as being in the same boat... even tho I clearly stated I only read one post I have to agree that it I should have seen that people might misconsture the meaning I attempted to convey. Allow me to clarify... Fuck off GfS. I can't take this shit anymore. I couldn't even read another post due to my anger about your lack of manners and respect. And, re my third post... I won't be back to this thread because I know I will simply have to put up with similar shit. gnightgnu |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Jun 13 - 03:14 PM There is no additive that stops his urine from scorching the lawn. A scam. Teach him to use a non-turfed area. See your vet if you don't believe this. You are probably damaging your dog's health. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/Gardennotes/553.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 19 Jun 13 - 06:16 PM Actually, my response was 'dead on' to your post. If GMO's were harmful, why was the rider slipped into Obama's budget? THAT is NOT an unreasonable question. Maybe the answer, that you fear, upset you, and so you start blaming me for asking it...but nonetheless, it was and is a valid question. Even Bobert approached it...and whether or not I agree with all of it or not, it has valid points for discussion. Speaking of discussion, what is it you wanted to discuss about it??...piss everybody off that GMO's suck?...I think most people agree with that...except Obama....so the next logical question is 'WHY?', isn't it?? Stop acting so fragile...and maybe even provide an answer to the discussion that you 're-started'! GfS P.S. Is that Unreasonable???????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:51 PM Actually, your OCD with Obama has become so... ...predictable and boring, GfinS... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:30 AM Boring??...Oh, maybe you can explain why, if GMO's are unhealthy, which seems to be the consensus, and causes all sorts of new illnesses and sicknesses. the how can the same president, no matter who he is, slip a rider in his budget, to make them exempt from any liabilities, which would be in the BILLIONS of dollars.....after he just rammed through the 'Affordable' Health Care Bill. Now don't go into a stupid rant about how everybody hates this guy for one stupid reason or another...just explain WHY that makes sense to you. The only people I can see who come out, from the deal smiling, are TWO of the biggest corrupt monopolies in the business ...healthcare/insurance corporations, and a massive new monopoly on our 'food' source. So, in good faith in 'liberal' causes, and everything Democrats stand for, surely YOU can explain this to me. gnu, might not want to think about it..nor want anyone else to think about it either...so you can make your answer, 'gnu-ly politically correct'!... ...because maybe he had some study to show that GMO's are great!..or, he just took it from Monsanto, and signed it..for 'other' reasons. What is it? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:45 AM Correction: Original text: "...how can the same president, no matter who he is, slip a rider in his budget, to make them exempt from any liabilities, which would be in the BILLIONS of dollars....." Corrected text: ".....how can the same president, no matter who he is, slip a rider in his budget, to make them exempt from any liabilities, which would be in the TRILLIONS of dollars....." OK...now that that's fixed, I'm going to eagerly await your answer. Don't chicken out, now there might not be enough room under the bed for you and gnu to hide under! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:24 AM Now I understand what makes Gnu go off like a two bob rocket. Why don't you guys get a room. You add nothing to the topic, but simply hijack it to expand your own private argument. Obama has nothing whatever to do with the topic, unless of course you are claiming that he is genetically modified, a claim that would fit right in with Goofus's continual existentialist lunacies. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:56 AM Don T(The ill-informed): ""Obama has nothing whatever to do with the topic...." Take your pick, dumb-fuck! Here, let me give you a preview of one of the links....: "United States President Barack Obama has signed a bill into law that was written in part by the very billion-dollar corporation that will benefit directly from the legislation. On Tuesday, Pres. Obama inked his name to H.R. 933, a continuing resolution spending bill approved in Congress days earlier. Buried 78 pages within the bill exists a provision that grossly protects biotech corporations such as the Missouri-based Monsanto Company from litigation. With the president's signature, agriculture giants that deal with genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and genetically engineered (GE) seeds are given the go-ahead to continue to plant and sell man-made crops, even as questions remain largely unanswered about the health risks these types of products pose to consumers. In light of approval from the House and Senate, more than 250,000 people signed a petition asking the president to veto the spending bill over the biotech rider tacked on, an item that has since been widely referred to as the "Monsanto Protection Act." "But Obama ignored [the petition]," IB Times' Connor Sheets writes, "instead choosing to sign a bill that effectively bars federal courts from being able to halt the sale or planting of GMO or GE crops and seeds, no matter what health consequences from the consumption of these products may come to light in the future." James Brumley, a reporter for Investor Place, explains a little more thoroughly just how dangerous the rider is now that biotech companies are allowed to bypass judicial scrutiny. Up until it was signed, he writes, "the USDA [US Department of Agriculture] oversaw and approved (or denied) the testing of genetically modified seeds, while the federal courts retained the authority to halt the testing or sale of these plants if it felt that public health was being jeopardized. With HR 933 now a law, however, the court system no longer has the right to step in and protect the consumer." If the president's signature isn't all that surprising, though, consider the genesis of the bill itself. According to an article published Monday in the New York Daily News, US Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Missouri) "worked with Monsanto to craft the language in the bill." 2013/03/29/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-written-by-monsanto-sponsored-senator" Being as you're so smart, maybe YOU AND Bobert can explain it! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:10 PM as my mom used to say to my brother & me, It takes two to fight.... and we both got punished. the only way to deal with this bothersome noise, is to ignore it... respond only to sensible comments... not always an easy thing to do... but if the serious discussion of an issue is worth enough to you, you do what you need to do. like a spoiled child's screams, their reward is to get the focus upon themselves. deprive them of the reward and they'll go elsewhere for it. or else push too far & get censured. so... for my hopefully useful input... genetic material is not all "switched on" continually... some genes are only active for a short time and then go dormant. Without understanding what the results will be, much of the current techniques are akin to sending a group of kids through a building randomly flipping switches and then trying to determine what controls what. While not harmful as part of basic research... it is not acceptable to just release the end results into the environment on a vast scale. And that is what the mega corps are doing in their bid to scoop others and rake in the big bucks. The only way to control this is too put in regulations based on good science... not knee jerk reactions... but that never seems to be the way that politics works. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM Was there a point, hidden in all that? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:23 PM I'm actually interested in the answer to Guest From Sanity's question.....aside from whether or not there is some 'hidden agenda'. What was the logic behind the signing of the Monsanto Protection Act? How is it being justified? I'm also interested in hearing 'pro-GMO' arguments, and their disputes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 01:27 PM Thank you, Larry The Radio Guy! As you can see, since I originally asked it, all I got was immature, silly partisan pouts, and thumb-sucking...but it IS a legitimate question. ..oh, and Larry, there is NO hidden agenda coming from me on this one. With you, awaiting an answer. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 20 Jun 13 - 01:27 PM the only way to prevent bills that contain bad provisions ( meaning any provision that serves only a small group at the expense of the rest)... and that includes just about every one ever written by any legislative body... is to have an over riding rule that limits the damage that can be done. of course, the chances of that are fat & slim... take your pick. bad provisions have been slipped into bills at the wee hours of the morning after the discussions are over and right before the vote takes place... or the need for cetain parts of the bills is felt to be so great that you swallow the rest to get it done. if there is a bad bill signed... it came from Congress, so maybe we should try to find a few honest politicians to vote for... anyone have a lantern? so maybe instead of lawsuits that only seem to favor lawyers, the public should boycott products... assuming they care enough about the problem. as long as only a small number of folks care... nothing will change. and the answer to that problem is educating the public about the issue. if you want change you need to change public opinion... but do us all a favor and make sure you understand what you need to ask for... because today's problems are the direct result of yesterday's solutions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:54 PM Sciencegeek: "..if there is a bad bill signed... it came from Congress, so maybe we should try to find a few honest politicians to vote for... anyone have a lantern?" If you read carefully, this 'bill' was signed by the President, and attached to his Democrat budget, to be submitted. My question is that it didn't make sense, being as with the results NOT in, of any findings, from any studies, how could the president submit this rider in his budget, amidst petitions NOT to, which exempts Monsanto, in particular, from any liabilities, to health or the environment....after he just rammed through the 'Affordable Healthcare Act', commonly refereed to as Obamacare, supposedly looking out for our health. What is it that he is overlooking?..Our health??..The budget??..or the land use, which small farms are being squeezed out, by Monsanto, AND provisions under the 'Patriot Act'..written by Biden, in 1995??? Now somehow, gnu, who re-started this thread, apparently to get people concerned about GMOs, either wasn't aware of this..(though I posted a post about it weeks ago(before it was chic), or he thinks that GMOs and the President, willfully sidestepping anything to protect the public from them, and instead is seeking to protect Monsanto's financial concerns, and allow the Trillions of dollars in damages, is NOT relevant to his thread. You'd THINK(rare commodity), that this doesn't make sense...though it does, but just not to the context of which he was intending. So, let's just sit back, and see what the 'so-called liberal' Democrats have to say, to explain this away!!! ...and hopefully we won't have to wade through too many nasty spirited, diversionary posts to find out! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:13 PM here is a link to a discussion about the pro and cons of genetically modfied rice... and there is more than one type of modified strain with varying benefits. http://voices.yahoo.com/advantages-disadvantages-genetically-modified-2064791.html?cat=22 but ir also leaves unanswered the problem of how the food supply can possibly keep up with the increase in population. Malthus should be required reading for every student. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 20 Jun 13 - 03:59 PM Sec. 735 "In the event that a determination of non-regulated status made pursuant to section 411 of the Plant Protection Act is or has been invalidated or vacated, the Secretary of Agriculture shall, not withstanding any other provision of law, upon request by a farmer, grower, farm operator or producer, immediately grant temporary permit(s) or temporary deregulation in part, subject to necessary and appropriate conditions consistent with section 411(a) or 412(c) of the Plant Protection Act, which interim conditions shall authorize the movement, introduction, continued cultivation, commercialization and other specifically enumerated activities and requirements, including measures designed to mitigate or minimize potential adverse environmental effects, if any, relevant to the Secretary's evaluation of the petition for non-regulated status, while ensuring that growers and other users are able to move, plant, cultivate, introduce into commerce and carry out other authorized activities in a timely manner: Provided That all such conditions shall be applicable only for the interim period necessary for the Secretary to complete any required analyses or consultations related to the petition for non-regulated status: Provided further, That nothing in this section shall be construed as limiting the secretary's authority under section 411, 412 and 414 of the Plant Protection Act." |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 04:12 PM Finally!!..Some relevant posts!! Q, so bottom line the 'double talk' in your selected post. I'm NOT faulting you, or seeking to fault you. The 'provision' doesn't really say much, exactly, other than a 'request' can be made..., and 'reviewed', as I read it. ..and it seems peculiar, to say the least, that both health and environmental impact studies would have been completed, BEFORE the rider was inserted into the Democrat budget proposal. So, post your take on what you posted. Fair enough? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 20 Jun 13 - 04:20 PM I posted the exact section 735 as it appears in the bill. It does seem to be spiced with double-talk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 13 - 05:43 PM Fact: GfinS has now posted 1,000,000 consecutive posts that blame Obama or Democrats for something that GfinS doesn't like... Congratulations, GfinS... You are the world record holder and Guiness will be in touch with you soon... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 06:10 PM Bobert, you're counting is way off..but while we're at it, could you at least post ONE, that has to do with the thread..and knock off your song and dance that everybody is picking on your little boy. Nagging, is NOT contributing!....You'd think married life would have taught you that!...BUT, look I just post, "So, let's just sit back, and see what the 'so-called liberal' Democrats have to say, to explain this away!!! ...and hopefully we won't have to wade through too many nasty spirited, diversionary posts to find out!" The thread is: 'RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read.' GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 13 - 07:51 PM I've already posted my observations on GMOs... Seems like nobody gets the implications that Monsanto is using their patents to shut down or try to shut down mom 'n pop farmers... The big winner: Agri-business with farmers sitting in their high-rise office buildings with their Suzie Cream-cheeze secretaries and their Mercedes... That's my main beef with GMOs but doesn't seem that anyone else here gives a flying fig about that aspect... I do... Agri-business is causing a lot of problems with their poisons and their run off nitrogen which pollute our water and kill out fish and negatively impact everyone... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:18 PM I share your concern, Bobert, and I frequently re-post on my facebook a lot of information that supports what you are saying. Obviously, however, neither Monsanto nor those legislators who are allowing Monsanto to do this are going to say "yep, that's what we're doing.....let's get rid of those f***in' mom and pop businesses". No, they will make other claims. It's hard for me to find the time to do the extensive research I'd need to do in order to dispute those who are defending GMO's and Monsanto. That's why I'm asking for others input. Why would Obama approve a bill that was written in part by Monsanto, and protects them even if there products are shown to be harmful. Or am I wrong.....are what my fellow liberals and left-wingers telling me not true? I was very relieved when Obama was elected president in the U.S. But now I'm wondering if it really makes much difference who gets in? I'm open to being educated. And I will look at the link that Sciencegeek posted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:22 PM http://voices.yahoo.com/advantages-disadvantages-genetically-modified-2064791.html?cat=22 Let's see if I can get science geek's link to show up as a link. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:27 PM Bobert: "That's my main beef with GMOs but doesn't seem that anyone else here gives a flying fig about that aspect..." R-I-I-I-G-H-T-T!!!!! And for all the right reasons you said right there, and more, health for one ....I agree! Why did Obama ram through 'Affordable Health Care Act', and signed the rider, giving the very people you stated, immunity for any health damages health or otherwise, from their products and agenda????? Does this look a just a teensie-weensie bit, inconsistent to you?? Who, in regards to all the big decisions, to come down have those decisions favored?? Scream therapy begins a 9;30 sharp! GfS P.S. As Michelle says, "Eat arugula, it's good for your health!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:32 PM Larry the Radio Guy: "Or am I wrong.....are what my fellow liberals and left-wingers telling me not true?" Hey!!...I've been called a lot of names on here, but....... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:32 PM OK, I read the link, and I can see why GMO's are so scary-----and seductive (which only makes them scarier). So what do people who are aware of this information and are supporting GMO's saying? |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:43 PM Let's get real here... Obama ain't like Jesus, ya' all... He is a fucking president with 24/7 push me-pull me politics and the most obstructionist Congress since Lincoln... That is reality... Lot's of folks thing the president is like a dictator... It don't work that way... No matter what you get screwed by Congress... They give you a bill to sign that has taken a year to get passed and it contains some good stuff and some bad stuff... That, my friends, is President 001 (remedial, non-credit)... But some folks ain't got a clue so they dwell on the bad shit... Get over it, ya'll.. All ya'll are doing is saying "I'm stupid and don't have a clue about American history or American politics"... Get an education... As for Monsanto... Yeah, it still sucks... I reckon if Obama were to get a "clean bill" he'd agree and veto it... There are no fucking clean bills... Grow up... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:07 PM Good post, Bobert. As for Monsanto, I consider that corporation to be the worst criminal on earth. Other countries are refusing their garbage. Only the good folks of the USA are willing to put up with their poisons. The people are going to have to take this in hand or we will all suffer the consequences. Plant a garden with heritage seeds and put a protective cover over it. And do NOT bother reading any posts by GfS. Time is too precious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:48 PM I appreciate your passion, Bobert. And certainly agree about the destructiveness of Monsanto. Yet the only way to get people on board is to understand where they are coming from. I'm not talking here about Monsanto, but about the American people who are allowing Monsanto to get away with wreaking such havoc.......and about those who are afraid to stand up to the corporate giants. Calling people all sorts of derogatory names doesn't do anything to advance the cause or 'convince' them to come onto our side. And, I don't think we should let Obama off the hook. If congress wanted a bill to destroy the earth (which may be what the so-called "Monsanto Protection Act" is doing, and he decided to compromise by saying we'd only destroy half the earth, I don't think that would be good enough. I think it's totally ok---and I think essential----for all of us to hold U.S. politicians, including Obama, accountable for their irresponsible and destructive actions, and, if need by, work to give power to any third political party who is going to follow their principles, no matter what. As for the hostility towards GfS....obviously there's some history there. And if he's a supporter of those Republicans who are so actively contributing to our destruction, the absolutely, put him in his place. But I certainly don't get this from his postings in this particular thread. Sometimes it's a problem when we focus so much more on the messenger than the message. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:06 AM Larry The Radio Guy: "And if he's a supporter of those Republicans who are so actively contributing to our...." As I've said a few times on here, now, 'I'm NOT with the Party...I'm with the band!" ..and as far as my 'history'..hey, I've been cool, and objective..as on here...but ideologue parrots HATE that...if it goes contrary to their indoctrinations. ..and Dorothy, what Democratic Organization are you with?? I just posted this a short while ago.."Don't pay attention to what they say, and the rhetoric...WATCH what they DO!" ..anyway, we'll save that for the 'Obama Administration' thread..but as long as we're here...any rebuttal, take to the other thread, I'll be happy to accommodate you....but this is certainly a case of, and in quite a literal sense..."'Hope and Change', seems to resemble 'Bait and Switch'!!!! (Remember, forget the rhetoric...watch what he's done!!)' Other thread... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Jun 13 - 11:56 AM I just went to the 'other thread', and if you look, you'll see that they are having the same problem with the idiot-logues over their, so Larry, that might help explain my 'history'. Check it out! Now back to GMO's, and how their nutritionally deprived 'brain food' has diminished people into 'political animals'... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 13 - 08:33 PM Yo, Larry... GfinS and I have a history and don't get too concerned about it being all that hostile... We're buddies... Well, kinda... As for GfinS and Obama... He has been 100% anti-Obama going back to the '08 primaries and has never said one thing nice about Obama and now is locked into blaming everything that goes wrong on the planet on Obama... So much for GfinS... As for trying to play nice with people who are out to fuck up your life and our planet... Yeah, I can be nice to them... I have to... I live in the South and am surrounded by them... As for telling them that they are right when they push anti-human, anti-Earth, anti-common sense policies, sorry, homie don't do that... If they want to start a new war I'll be the first to be on the streets protesting... I have a 40+ year old history of taking to the streets when these ignorant people try to push their fascist, war-monging, planet-destroying, mean-spirited policies... I believe that we should be doing everything we can to make a society that lives up to the preamble of the American Constitution and that means providing laws that promote equality... The right wing hates equality... They do everything in their power to make out country one that provides an opportunity of the "pursuit of happiness" by the upper 5% of wage earners at the expense of the bottom 95%... I am a firm believer that when we oppress anyone then we oppress everyone in the long run... You know, "What goes around comes around"... If the right wing pushes the 95% too hard guess what happens??? Armed revolution happens and then the 5% find's itself oppressed... Stupid people don't study history... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Jun 13 - 11:34 PM Yeah, Good ol' Bobert....creative in so many ways...but his politics, jeez Louise!...If only he could 'create' his way out of Democratic Party brain-lock. I'd do anything I could to spare him the ignominy of bettin' on the wrong horse...but then there aren't too many alternative horses out there....I think the ones with integrity just don't fall in line with either of the two predominant psychic vampire political parties....speaking of horses, and Bobert...'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him play a banjo'...or something like that. Oh well, back to GMO's and still waiting for one of the Obamacrats to come up with a verifiable answer, as to why, if Obama was all in for the Obama health care concerns, why did he put Monsanto's rider, into his budget proposal.....There's a LOT more contradictory instances about Obama's actions, or in-actions, that leads one to ask such thought provoking questions..but this one's on GMO's and his benevolence to Monsanto, in light of the fact they are a bit anti environmental and health...Either Obama is, too, OR he's a wolf in sheep's clothing, and the 'so-called liberals' are just to fucked up to see it, and too vainly proud to call it as it is. I know!!.....he signed it because he's hoping only Republicrats will eat the crap, and get sick and die..and he can tell the IRS not to give health care to them!!....Naw, that doesn't work either...but just as stupid as any other reason, than the obvious! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 23 Jun 13 - 01:27 PM Another beef I have with Monsanto is that with Round Up resistant crops there will be increased chemical use and increased chemical runoff... That's not good for streams, ponds, lakes of bays... I have a pond that is fed by runoff and it takes quite a bit of work to get it to support any life other than the usual duckweed & loose-strife infestations you get from too much runoff... The nitrogen feeds them and prevents the water from oxygenating... I'd rather pay a few cents more for a box of cereal if that's what it takes to not go poisoning our water... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:27 PM Going right along with Bobert, (this time), what do you think will happen next, a class action lawsuit against Monsanto for their damages????...or MORE government sanctioned grants and exemptions for them?? we know Monsanto OWNS much of the earth's water rights(look it up), and now they want a Monopoly on the food sources and production. They have successfully gotten through legislation, squeezing family owned small farms out of business, and passed legislation to control what, and how much people can plant(fortunately there's too many growers to enforce it all, but they're making great 'progress')...what next?..Oh, and by the way, a lot of that stuff got passed under a Republican administration, as well, (in all fairness). Yes, we have the best system money can buy!....we used to have a good one, but money bought loopholes and media influence, for which ever party's constituents needed to be appealed to...but this latest stunt, may have just tipped their hand....and by 'their' I mean the corporation's covert influence peddling with compliant and complicit politicians, regardless of party. I know, I know, I'm a 'racist' huh?...... .......in your wettest of dreams! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 13 - 03:47 PM First of all, the Monsanto rider was inserted to the bill anonymously so anyone blaming any specific person for putting it there had better have some AWESOME evidence to prove it. Secondly, Obama either signs the bill or he vetoes it. There is no line-item veto anymore so he can't strip it out if we assume he wanted to. Thirdly, the Monsanto Protection Act as well as every other provision in the bill expires in September. So it all may just be a tempest in a teacup. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:26 PM Here, try again! ...or take your pick... Are you trying to tell me, that a REPUBLICAN Congressman or Senator, hands a Democrat president, a bill to insert into the DEMOCRAT budget, and without reading it, or asking what it is, he signs it??? What if the Republican Congressman or Senator, just handed him a document, seeking the President's resignation to sign???...and the President doesn't read it or asks "What's this?" ...and line item vetos would only apply to AFTER the bill is submitted...not before. Line Item Veto Re-Enactment Activity of 2009 Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) introduced legislation of a limited version of the line-item veto. This bill would give the president the power to withdraw earmarks in new bills by sending the bill BACK to Congress minus the line-item vetoed earmark. Congress would then vote on the line-item vetoed bill with a majority vote under fast track rules to make any deadlines the bill had. The keyword here is 'BACK'....not before it is introduced...by a Congressman or Senator from the opposite party, BEFORE the proposed bill is sent!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:14 PM I agree with your 2:27 post, GfinS... Maybe you should examine how it differs from your usual post and learn that when you talk policy and leave your Obama hatred out of the discussion then you get further than when you do it the other way... Just a suggestion... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:45 PM >>Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) introduced legislation of a limited version of the line-item veto. This bill would give the president the power to withdraw earmarks in new bills by sending the bill BACK to Congress minus the line-item vetoed earmark. Congress would then vote on the line-item vetoed bill with a majority vote under fast track rules to make any deadlines the bill had.<< There is NO line item veto on the books--period. Legislation introduced is NOT a law. >>Are you trying to tell me, that a REPUBLICAN Congressman or Senator, hands a Democrat president, a bill to insert into the DEMOCRAT budget, and without reading it, or asking what it is, he signs it???<< Firstly, unlike you, I make no accusation against any specific person because it was done anonymously. Did Obama read it? What do you think? They hand him the bill to sign and he starts reading it word-for-word? How many pages was it? No, of course, he didn't read it. Did he want it in? I don't know. >>What if the Republican Congressman or Senator, just handed him a document, seeking the President's resignation to sign???...and the President doesn't read it or asks "What's this?"<< It isn't done that way so your example is pointless--as is the vast majority of what you post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:04 AM Here's a quote from an article(I'll post link): "During debate over the appropriations bill last month, Senator Jon Tester, a Montana Democrat and organic farmer, said the plan sets a "dangerous" legal precedent and shows the government supports companies at the expense of the public." I AGREE! Link: From Bloomberg GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:34 AM GfinS, It's great that you have quit with the Tin-Foil-Nation rhetoric with Obama snuggling up to Monsanto... BTW, have you ever been in the US Senate chamber during a so-called debate??? There's practically no one in there listening other than the visitors... Senators will hold the floor and get stuff into the record... That's about it... Monsanto wasn't hardly on the radar screen when the bill was being written... Now it is... Good... Too late for now but it's good that it's finally being debated and may actually get reversed down the road... That would be good thing... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 24 Jun 13 - 09:11 AM we Americans are spoiled by the notion of "cheap" food.... TRANSTAAFL - theres no such thing as a free lunch- there is a cost to cheap food, which ends up not being cheap at all... listed below are two not-for-profit organizations that are working to preserve the genetics of livestock & plants that have been "replaced" by agribusiness as not worth the effort. Support the folks who are doing more than complaining, but are taking the needed steps to at least preserve what they can before it too is lost. http://www.albc-usa.org/ http://www.seedsavers.org/ the next step is to support local producers who use IPM ( Intergrated Pest Management) or are Organic farmers or at least grow & sell locally. If your $$$ goes to the chain stores that ship in food from around the world instead of locally, well guess what - it is your $$$ that is being used to back Monsanto & the rest of the handful of mega corps involved in food production around the world. how about backing a FArm Bill that gives more support to small farmers than to the mega corps that are the real "takers" in our society. bitching about GMO is akin to arguing about the deck chair seating on the Titanic... the real problem is that chunk of ice ahead & someone at the helm who didn't know how to handle the situation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:30 AM Not so fast, Mr. Bobert....instead of signing it, he could have sent it back, with the explanation, that some of the riders, be withdrawn, before he would sign it, accompanied with an address to the nation, as to why he was doing it...the biggest obstacle was, besides the fact that the rider was slipped in at the last moment, is that given the mood of the country, at present, Obama gives a speech, and nobody believes him any more... and then it is reduced down to party bickering over the 'talking points' as to the why's of it. Now, I know that the 'sequester' was an issue, and he bullshitted too much about it, at the time..but a REAL leader would have taken the bull by the horns, forced Congress to back off of some of the riders, with the threat of not signing it, explain it to the American people, and 'stick to his guns'. Had he explained it, as a statesman, instead of not knowing when to stop campaigning, and given examples to the people, on the riders, and that he was sending it back to Congress to fix, he actually might have gained support and respect of the people. As it is now, he is still complicit....and that has been done before! ..and I think that is a fair assessment. The other obstacle, is that the American people are VERY ill-informed, and misinformed, due to the climate of the 'right/left' bullshit. Had this administration been 'up front' and one half as 'transparent' as they promised to be, and cut back on the outright lies, he could have easily pulled it off, and be the 'hero of the day'. But, as it is now, he is still complicit Fair enough? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Jun 13 - 11:43 AM While any law protecting a company or industry from lawsuits is an abomination, I'd still like to see some evidence of adverse health effects from GMOs. WE've been living with genetically modified plants and animals for miillennia now, thanks to selective breeding, and the results have been largely positive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:07 PM Dick, it's all too common for us to only consider how something immediately affects us. In the case of GMO, it really is more than immediate health risks... it is what is happening to the surrounding environment ... the unexpected consequences. The most compelling issue is the placement of genes into corn - a wind pollinated crop that has quirky genetics to begin with. How do you protect your non-GMO corn from being fertilized/contaminated by the farmer a quarter mile down the road. The seed producers have sued farmers who used their "contaminated" seed corn for the next year's planting - claiming that the farmer was depriving the company of their proper payment. Some genes allow the use of pesticides that couldn't be used on the crop before, while others insert genes that may actually increase resistence in target pest populations. Organic farmers have issues with using the Bt gene, one of the few pest controls that meet organic standards when using the original baterium, in such a widespread fashion that threatens to increase the likelihood of resistent pest populations. Remember - the rat race of "resistence" is all part of evolution and natural selection. If increased pesticide use causes increased mortality in bees and other pollenators, I don't care if it doesn't affect my immediate health. It's screwing up the rest of my envirnment that I do care about. We improved the sanitation in cities, which did improve human health... at the expense of the water bodies that ended up taking in the waste. Now we have cleaner city streets... but polluted water bodies that can't support aquatic/marine life the way they did before. Everything has a cost... the smart thing is to figure out that cost BEFORE committing yourself to a course of action. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:52 PM Sciencgeek- I agree. Nobody gets nothin' for nothin'. THe problem of corn cross-pollination has been around for a long, long time: Henry Wallace, for one, made a fortune by selling hybrid corn seed to farmers. THe point is, they bought it because the hybrid corn produced far higher yields than their older varieties. Organic farming sounds good, but leads to lower productivity and higher food prices; something our overpopulated world can't live with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:54 PM There will be benefits from the research. The problem is testing and regulation. The Department of Agriculture and the Food and Drug Administration need to be strong. The Republican congressmen, by cutting funding and passing questionable legislation, are allowing unacceptable applications. Monsanto is a marketing as well as a research organization. They buy patents of researchers in universities and other institutions. Some may be used for purposes other than intended by the originator. Regulation is the answer, but it will not be forthcoming until the almost 50-50 split in the electorate is changed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:03 PM Many gardeners have been planting a cross-generic plant or two in their flower beds for years. Some are not sterile, and can be easily propagated. Most of our staple products are far removed from the original stock(s), through selection and hybridization, as stated by Dick G. We now have the means to speed up the process, which has to be regulated, not stopped. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:36 PM There is a big difference between hybrid corn & GMO... there is also the possibility that the GMO corn will not produce the larger yields that come with hybrid vigor. In fact, by increasing the use of pesticides, there is a greater danger of depleting soil fertility by destroying the natural tilth of the soil. I support IPM as a rational compromise to produce ag commodities. I also need to note that when fertilizers were first used, the results were great... BUT... in and of themselves, chemical fertilizers do more damage than good to the soil. And that gets compounded when farmers go to bigger & heavier equipment. There's a viscious cycle going on & everyone loses - except, for now, the mega corps. The world food supply is largely based on a mere handful of crop plants- and these are wind pollinated. Do you really feel comfortable knowing that agribusiness bean counters can make decisions that affect the world's food supply? They've done so well in the past.... I do not like alarmist reactions... but I do know history and the parallels that I see are not comforting. We had also better understand that the carrying capacity of this planet is finite... we are fast approaching the limit of how many people can be fed, regardless of what is edible or how we produce food. As I said earlier... Malthus should be required reading in our schools. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:43 PM I guess what I'm questioning is the " big difference between hybrid corn & GMO" AS yet, nobody has explained that to me (and I've asked biologists.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 01:56 PM dick greenhaus: "While any law protecting a company or industry from lawsuits is an abomination, I'd still like to see some evidence of adverse health effects from GMOs." In my first post about it, I commented on the same thing...and asked if there were any studies showing why this was a good or bad idea. Also, right along with that, is that, legislation giving them a pass on any liabilities, without impartial studies, was a bad idea. It would be quite logical to assume, that Monsanto is pushing that kind of bill, looking at their financial profits, more than the nutritional profits...only comprehensive research could reveal a clue, rather than waiting to see the ill effects, should there be any, The 'representatives' should have taken the nutritional and health benefits, or risks to the public as their primary concern. In my opinion of all of them who rammed it through is 'Shame on them', and hope they don't get re-elected! They'd think twice, if Monsanto was exempt from damages, and THEY were held liable, for passing such a irresponsible bill so willy-nilly! Obama should have never signed it...and being as this was an emergency finance bill, he should have sent it back, to have ALL unnecessary pork riders, and such exemptions, withdrawn from the bill from either party. I think the American public would have applauded him for that! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 24 Jun 13 - 02:28 PM This has now become a very interesting and informative post. Great work folks. My own lack of knowledge keeps me from contributing much, but I enjoy being informed. Thanks to all of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 02:34 PM Had Obama not signed the appropriations bill he would have been blamed for a partial shutdown of the government, GfinS... You really don't understand politics, do you??? Not to mention that the bill was full of riders and not a whole lot, if any, knew exactly everything that was in the bill... The Monsanto rider wasn't exactly shouting "Look here"... Why is it that you expect Obama to read every page of every bill and know 1000000% of everything about everything??? Your standards are not reasonable - or rational - when it comes to Obama... Like I said, "You really don't understand politics, do you???"... Or history, for that matter... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 02:46 PM Yo, Dick... One very major negative effect that GMOs have is on the environment with more chemicals now being sprayed than ever... When it rains these chemicals end up downstream in streams, lakes, ponds, rivers, bays and eventually the oceans... That negatively effects creatures that live in or around water and effects the water itself... The other negative effect of GMOs is that small farmers are being threatened with law suits if bees carry the DNA from one filed to another... What this does is force mom 'n pops outta business who then have to sell their land to agri-business... As for the physical effects on humans, we don't know for sure yet... Given the higher levels of pesticides on crops certainly doesn't make them more attractive... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 24 Jun 13 - 02:49 PM GMO stands for genetically modified organism... meaning that the genetic material of an organism is manipulated in a lab setting to alter the genetic material for a specific purpose. Hybrids are the result of taking two different species or varieties and interbreeding them to produce offspring that hopefully have improved characteristics over either of the parents. While labor intensive for crop plants, there is no addition or deletion of specific genes done to either parent stock to produce the new offspring. Science fiction has dealt with the idea for quite some time... the term "pharming" was created to describe adding genes to produce drugs into critters like goats... milk the goat & then extract the insulin or whatever drup you wanted to produce. what GMO means today is that a megacorp like Monsanto ( not the only one BTW) can add genetic material to a food crop like corn that carries the trait for resistence to a pesticide that would otherwise cause it to shrivel up and die if it ever came in contact with. Why? So they can market that pesticide to farmers at a hefty price with the promise that it will kill "competing weeds"... not to mention the cost of the "improved" seed. The same technology that has allowed science to splice genes to determine what they do, or to come up with the entire genome of a species is also used to alter food crops. The difference with hybrids is that they do not reproduce "true" to the hybrid type... the genes get reshuffled or else are sterile. GMO's have demonstrated that once the new genetic material is introduced, it can & will stay around in the gene pool. Harris Seed developed a popular hybrid tomato called Moreton. When they moved their operations, they misplaced the seeds for the parent tomatoes. it wasn't until both parent tomatoes were found that hybrid once again became available. Only Harris Seed can produce Moreton beefsteak tomatoes. On the other hand, GMO corn created by Monsanto is fertile and can cross pollinate any other corn variety that comes in contact with the wind borne pollen. Which is why they sue any farmer that saves seed that was pollinated by their patented variety. The techniques developed to manipulate genetic material can do a lot more than hybridization - which is no more than one on one fertilization. And a lot of crosses before you find a hybrid worth keeping. The prime goal of agribusiness is to produce a commodity that makes them lots of money. Does it taste good? Is it worth eating? These are far less important factors. Look at the tobacco industry & then tell me that the health & safety of our food supply is all that important when compared to what really matters to bean counters... $$$. What good is cheap bread, if more and more people can't eat without getting sick? |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:10 PM Well, geek... As for tasting good that's what all that sodium and sugar are for... And we wonder why, as a nation, we are so unhealthy... Duhhhhh... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:24 PM BTW, Dick... Google up, "NaturalNews.com, Monsanto" for an eye opener on health effects... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM Who introduced Sec. 735? The measure expires September 30, 2013, when new legislation will be required. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:20 PM "NaturalNews.com, Monsanto" doesn't seem to be an overly reliable source for data. I hold no brief for Monsanto---I worked for them once back in the 70s, and the (based on their performance back then) were more of a "Brainless" than a "Soulless" corporation. I'd like to point out that the GMO question isn't limited to the US. Genetically modified grains that require less water, f'rinstance, could be a godsend to many third world countries. Regulation, of course, should be required, without hysteria involved. And, ScienceGeek, I still grow my own heirloom tomatoes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:32 PM I thought the article was pretty complete, Dick... Okay, maybe not smoking gun stuff but with the power that Monsanto has it's going to be real hard to expect anyone, the government included, to do an expensive and time consuming study on the effects of GMOs on humans... That just ain't going to happen... Oh, and I grow my heirloom tomatoes, too... Organically, of course... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:19 PM as I tried to point out in my earliest posts... the techniques are merely a tool. It's how the tool is used that raises the concerns. GMO properly used is still not a magic bullet... anymore than heirloom varieties are. Each have their weak points. We have invasive species damaging the environment... not just the insect & fish pests of late... but think of the rabbits in Australia or the blasted starlings released into Central Park in NYC by some misguided Shakespearean fans. Once the genie is out of the bottle, good luck getting him back in. It's the unintended consequences that concern me. I just can't relax & trust fate in the hands of greedy a-holes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 13 - 08:29 PM And the funny (not so) thing is that when we introduce invasive species that we think we are solving some other problem... Think kudzu here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:29 PM Bobert: "Why is it that you expect Obama to read every page of every bill and know 1000000% of everything about everything??? Your standards are not reasonable - or rational - when it comes to Obama..." I guess you're right..how could anyone expect him to know every page..or what new lies are going on at the State Department, or Benghazi, or what his DOJ is lying about from day to day, not to mention the IRS, or the NSA, or Hillary not giving him any intel, or Susan Rice, whatever she just made up on her own, in front of the U.N., or where his shovel ready jobs went...I mean that's a lot to keep track of, especially when you have to make your press secretary look like a blithering idiot, trying to explain all this away....come to think of it, I'm surprised he didn't know the Monsanto rider was coming...you'd think the NSA would have told him!....besides, it's all too much to think about, when you have a safari in Africa to look forward to...so much fun..so little time! GfS P.S. Of course he doesn't know all that stuff...what do you think he is??..in charge??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:08 AM Just right wing, TeaKK talking points with 0% substance... You obviously have no knowledge of American history, the real world of American politics or even a basic understanding of how the federal government actually works... More Obama-Hate-Brigade manure from the catbox's Number One Obama-Hate-Brigade manure spreader... Get a life, man... If that involves getting an education and learning real stuff and getting your head out of the right wing noise turbine then... ...so be it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:56 AM the entry for Genetically modified organism in Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is pretty good coverage of the issue and its history. speaking of history... this tool has been around since 1983... that's three decades, so every political party in the world has had a crack at regulating or not regulating it, as the case may be. would a diabetic consent to genetic manipulation if it meant controlling their condition throughout their lifetime? Genetic manipulation of somatic cells (those in the body, not the gametes that are for reproduction) could provide hormones needed but not available for whatever reason... growth hormone for those children who do not produce adequate amounts for what we term normal growth. on the other hand we have people who currently use plastic surgery to achieve their ideal of beauty who would just love to use this tool on themselves or their unlucky offspring. Can you envision children that actually DO look like Barbie Dolls??? ... but there's always some banana republic that would have no problem with legal human genetic tinkering of any sort. Regulation is only as good as the foresight of the regulators... which means you need folks who understand evolution and science. Putting Creationists in charge of genetic engineering is like putting the Flat Earth Society in charge of NASA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:27 AM That's the problems, geek... Regulations are the enemy of the ignorant... That's all we hear from the right wing... They complain about every regulation that comes down the pike... The Chamber of Commerce was blasting away at Obama in his first term saying that he was like some kind of dictator for the regulations that had been put in place during his first couple of years as president... Truth of the matter is that Obama was way behind Bush in new regulations at the same point in Bush's term so... ...John Dailey, then Chief-of-Staff, invited the Chamber of Commerce to present the regulations that Obama had put in place that they didn't like... Guess what??? The Chamber not only couldn't think of any but shut the heck up about Obama being this monster regulator... Here's the big problem with GMOs... Because we are in a cycle of Big Business getting whatever it wants there is no political will to conduct studies on: 1. The effects of GMOs on the physiology on man and other creatures... 2. The effects of GMOs on our environment... 3. The effects of GMOs on small farmers... 4. The effects on a society that shields any corporation from liability for damages... 5. The cost (in loss of per acre yield) in not using GMOs... I mean, it seems that we are not operating with all the facts because they are not known... It's kinda like we are being told that GMOs are the way of the future in feeding mankind... I donno??? If you can now use more chemicals to control weeds and insects, where do those chemicals end up??? There are lots of unanswered questions and a more intelligent path would be to try to ferret out some truths (answers) about GMOs... I don't see that happening until one day, geeeeze, "we have a problem, Houston"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:43 AM B, I can remember back in the '60's & '70's when the so called new age was coming in, thinking to myself how these things are cyclic and -good grief - we would end up back in a resurrected version of the 1950's. Well, here it is... We are back in the Age of Intolerance, trying to turn back the clock. The "I've got mine and screw the rest of you" mindset is back and the Ugly American is not a pretty sight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:00 PM Yup, it's very disheartening to see the mean 'n greedy in control of the country... And equally disheartening is to see that they now own BIG MEDIA lock,stock and barrel and we as a nation are being fed a steady diet of propaganda... Most people are decent and when they are informed support decent pro-human, pro-Earth policies... When they are ill informed they are dangerous because they are susceptible to voting for the wrong people... It is a vicious and depressing cycle as we descend further and further into a fascist state... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 01:59 PM Bobert: "It is a vicious and depressing cycle as we descend further and further into a fascist state..." Right!!!!...and if I had posted that, you'd say I was starting to sound like the TEA party!..the problem is that many of our 'regulatory agencies are corrupted too, by the very people they're supposed to be regulating OR by some farcical political agenda, rather than regulating for the well being of the public!! Where was the FDA of the USDA, when this was getting off the ground????... NOWHERE! Bobert: "And equally disheartening is to see that they now own BIG MEDIA lock,stock and barrel and we as a nation are being fed a steady diet of propaganda..." ...and the 'big' media there was NEVER a word about it!....I was the first to break the story on here, and that was from a late night talk radio show, that mentioned it in passing...so the next day, before I posted it, I had to find it somewhere online., and then posted it. Nobody replies or responded, back then, because the story just wasn't carried....Do ya' think that the corporate media has a common interest with the corporate food production??? Bobert: "Here's the big problem with GMOs... Because we are in a cycle of Big Business getting whatever it wants there is no political will to conduct studies on:..."(and then you start a list of topics) Again, you are absolutely CORRECT. The political will has been 'influenced' and subsequently corrupted by the mega corporations...and whether you agree or not, it has screwed over BOTH..YES BOTH, parties! There are several articles (here's one of them..but there are more) about Miluski, and her part in it...that is IF you buy her rap. I've posted in regards to that weak rationalization already. There is NO valid reason this was allowed to be on the BUDGET! Bobert: "Most people are decent and when they are informed support decent pro-human, pro-Earth policies... When they are ill informed they are dangerous because they are susceptible to voting for the wrong people.." AGAIN, RIGHT!!!....We can't even get the 'right', (as in 'correct') people nominated, that's how bad it's gotten!! You see Obama as the 'right' person...I do not..and that's OK..but his history, as president, is far more supporting my view on that. A REAL leader, would have refused to sign it, and send it back for removal of 'pork' and stupid exemption riders, before he could approve it. The FACT that he didn't, should tell you who he is really working for, behind the rhetoric...by the way, has Obama EVER issued a statement about it??? ..Perhaps, 'Silence is contentment.'?? Bobert: "If you can now use more chemicals to control weeds and insects, where do those chemicals end up???" Either in your poop and in a lot of caskets!...or BOTH(sorta like our political parties!). Nonetheless, I agree with your concerns...but I take exception to getting political rhetoric, from our government, in place of actions!...no matter who pretends to be 'in charge'!! Regards Ol' Shoe Box Bob! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:41 PM Obama is not the problem, GfinS... That's the parts that you refuse to understand... He is a stop gap and buying US some time to see if we can stop the fascist Republicans which are being led by the TeaKK'ers who represent less than 15% of America... That's what Fascism looks like... Your constant whining about Obama is excatly what the fascists have planted in your head... He's about the only person now standing in their way... You may think this is some kinda of exaggeration on my part but it isn't... The Koch brothers own at least 50 Congressmen out right... Other folks allied with the Koch brothers own others... The entire TeaKK is owned by monied interests and are trying to shut down as much of the US government as they can... Why??? Simple... Follow the $$$... Lower taxes for the rich... No laws on how the rich get and stay rich... All risk passed on to the working class... Lousy paying jobs for the working class if they have a job at all... This is your TeaKK at work and you are repeating word for word what they have put in your head when you play scadalmania and mean moth Obama at every occasion... That's exactly what they expect from you... You are no different than Pavlov's dog... I mean, when it comes to seein' some of forest you get it but you are so lost in the TeaKK Forst that you are blinded to just how much bullshit you have swallowed... Yes, I defend Obama... No, I don't agree with everything he has done but, gosh, John McCain would have had US deep into at least one more Middle East war which would have further starved the beast and put us even closer to the TeaKK/Koch brothers perfect world of no New Deal, no nothing... No thanks... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 04:45 PM Well, I don't disagree with you about McCain...but everything you said about what I'm saying, as linked to the TEA party, is not true..BUT, you might think about and applying that same theory to yourself, and the Democrat Party, and to the corporations who own them. Now, I know this is a bit of a drift from the thread..but I'm answering YOU!... What we REALLY have here, is the actual policies that the U.S. government has been DOING..FORGET THE RHETORIC....The noose tightening policies are identical..undeclared wars, more government/corporate control, loopholes for their minions, spying on Americans, the Patriot Act, erosion of the Rule of Law of the Land--The Constitution, intrusion into every aspect of our lives, up to and including the IRS basically running our healthcare, government officials running rampant illegal programs with impunity, favoritism for crooked bankers and corporations, disinformation to not just the American people, but to the World body, at the U.N., whether it was Colin Powell, (Republican at the time), justifying the invasion of Iraq, or Susan Rice bullshitting about the video causing the Benghazi, supporting arms to drug cartels, absence of enforcing our borders(to which by Constitutional federal law they are mandated in doing)..and the list goes on and on...but because we fight amongst ourselves,as to 'whose fault it is' Republican or Democrat, we take out eyes off the fact, that it is the WHOLE of the U.S. government! The entire illusion that it is one side or the other, stops at our borders...the rest of the planet doesn't give a shit....it is U.S. policies, and nobody gives a rat's ass WHO it comes from...and needless to say, we have lost MAJOR respect and credibility in the rest of the world, both friends and foes. Now you can look at all the above topics mentioned, and say, "Yeah, but the Republicans did it first"....but if the Democrats think it's so wrong, why are they still doing it, and then saying, as you just said(from a Democrat /talking point'), "Yeah, but the Republicans did it first"??? When I say, "It is BOTH, and they have been corrupted", you just revert back to a corrupted Democrat 'talking point' and say that I'm just parroting the TEA Party...which reminds me of a saying that I've said for years, "The weak accuse others of their motives"...in other words, YOU are getting your 'talking points' from on high, of the corrupted Democrat top, and accusing me of doing it, as you are....WRONG!!...and I have NO part affiliation, whatsoever, and haven't since BEFORE Carter ran against Ford! Even you, at one time went to the 'Green Party'...was that because you loved the Democrat or Republican parties...or because you had a momentary burst of clarity, and the 'Greens' seemed like a better alternative?? As a matter of fact, being away from these two gigantic ruses, has given me a rather objective view into the whole mess...and I don't like what I see....on is right about somethings, and wrong about other, and then they switch roles...ANYTHING to keep us, the American people, who they are supposed to be working FOR, blinded to their escapades and agendas. As the way it's turning out, whether its one party or the other, we are working for them...the dictators(and their agencies)....and I don't care what party they say they belong to!!! ...but then on the other hand, I pose no threat to either one of them..other than that I'm NOT buying their song and dance....(besides, I write better songs..but that's another story). One goes so far, then the other party picks up and keeps going..but one thing for sure, NOBODY is repealing the bullshit that the other managed to get through....therefore, they are working in the same direction(regardless of the rhetorical rap), and things don't seem to be getting much better, for US, their employers.....I'd like to see a few of them fired!....but then you can't even get the DOJ to stop breaking the law and lying about it, nor the USDA, FDA, and the EPA, to object to Monsanto's bullcrap, either....and nobody wants to ask 'Why?'.....sorta suspicious, don't ya' think? Keep the shoe boxes dry, and in tune! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: dick greenhaus Date: 25 Jun 13 - 05:26 PM The theory, I guess, is don't try to solve problems, because the solution may create other (possibly worse) ones. When automobiles were introduced they were widely applauded as a solution to horse-drawn vehicles' pollution. DDT drastically reduced malaria incidence, but played hell with wildlife. ((No, I don't have an answer. Revolution doesn't seem to be one, either---look at Russia and China.)) |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:13 PM Dick, you done a post for thought provoking. The next logical step, would be 'harmonious' and 'non-perishable' to all recipients and providers alike, and that would include the whole of the planet, and for it to regenerate, its own resources...and we, in turn, nurture it...and take the harvest, as needed. To live like that, the first step one would have to embark upon, would be to look to one's own self, and have a healthy discussion with that 'other' part, who likes to compromise, by personal excuses...and use the energy that would save, and beginning to study, and become 'harmonious'..therefore, having less and less 'perishable' traits, either coming in or going out...and...see what else it brings. You might be one of the guys pointing the way. Regardless, Have a Good Road. (Keep in touch!) Guest from Sanity |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Don Firth Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:30 PM Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley's 1818 novel, Frankenstein, or The Modern Prometheus, in addition to spawning a mess of monster movies (most of which were gawdawful and a couple of which were fairly good), was something of a warning about what a well-meaning scientist can produce when he has no clear idea of what the outcome of his experiment might be. Forget the movies. Read the novel. One helluva good read, by the way. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:43 PM Study the books, but also study the use of harmonics, and in practical use, in every aspect. In all applications of the word..they are all harmonious to each other! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 13 - 07:39 PM Sorry, GfinS, but your above manifesto has TeaKK dripping off every word... I don't defend the Democrats... I don't always agree with Obama... You, on the other hand have agian doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on TeaKK noise in your manifesto... It's the same shit that you have been posting forever... It's all the exact same shit... Nothing new... Obama, Obama, Obama... Dems, Dems, Dems... Blah, Blah, Blah... I'm sorry but I'm going to have to ignore your posts until you have made some attempt to look in the mirror and see just how eat up you are in repeating FOX... No thanks... It's all 100% USDA Choice FOX... Get over FOX and jump start your brain... It isn't working at all... Another FOX manifesto won't change that no matter how long... We know just how much you hate Obama and the government... Had the Dems, BTW, wanted to play hate-the-government-investigate-everything scadalmania during Bush It would have made Obama look like a Boy Scout... Do you realize what Darryl Issa said when the Repubs took the House in 2010??? Look it up... Very interesting shit and you are working for Darryl Issa and the TeaKK... Square business... Claim your brain back from the abyss... You are too smart to be so ignorant of just how brain-washed you have become... Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 08:46 PM Of course you'd say that...you're repeating your party's mantra. As I've repeated, so many fucking time, they are BOTH working in the wrong direction..ALL..what part of 'ALL' don't you understand? 'All' is all 'All' means, and that's all it means! The whole shootin' match is corrupted....need we fill up another thread siting examples???..BOTH of them..TEA party included(as a side note). ALL of them funded by questionable sources..yours too...ALL of them have shaky backgrounds and history. None of them are repealing bad shit...BYW, in the post you called my manifesto, I forgot to include NDAA...a TEA party invention??..Republican??...and who is the beneficiary of such legislation?? Oh, and my prior post, minus a couple of typos, was dead on! You like 'agencies of regulation???? Where ARE or WERE the FDA?? EPA?? USDA?? Hey man, I'm on your side in this...but don't close your eyes to why this shit gets through!!! They can shut down mines...disallow foods and drugs and medicines....WHERE ARE THEY???...and moreover, WHY NOT?? ..and of course..Who's in charge here?? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 13 - 09:14 PM BS, GfinS... I ma a Green Party member who supports Obama.., Guess better and... ...get an education... EPA, USDA should be busting balls... Why can't they??? Because there are too many GfinSs out there spreading right wing bullshit... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Jun 13 - 11:47 PM ...and just a simple office memo from the White House and they'd do it, in a New York second!...but, if you might have noticed, they're enforcement seems to be rather 'selective' to say the least...so it would seem that certain competition is being 'regulatorily' paired down....it just appears Monsanto is on the 'pay back' list, or 'bribe' or pay off the 'blackmail' list,..but some magical way, they are being given a green light...maybe it's the fascist's food supplier list....but then, you think it's only Republicans who would do this, and I say it's more like the Republicrats ...but whatever, they're getting a pass. How come the bill names Monsanto, in particular, and not ALL(there's that word again), companies engaged in GMO research or production???....just Monsanto....ya' think if another company would try to muscle in on the market, ya' think the EPA, FDA, or the USDA would step in???,,You bet your ass they would!...and that's how it works! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:38 AM I'm about as anti Tea-Party/Republican mentality as anybody can be---my values are much closer to Ralph Nader's. And I was so relieved when Obama got back in during the last election. Yet most of what GFS is saying seems to make a lot of sense to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 13 - 01:27 AM Thanks Larry...They did the same thing with the housing finance stuff...they got a loophole to work through..then they closed it, so nobody else could pull that off...and then they called it 'reform'.. everybody is relieved, and applauds..and then on top of it, with a new song and dance, that was hailed by one party or the other, they got bailouts, to boot!...and ever since they've been ducking and weaving, and got the parties into pointing fingers, as such on here...and they just walk away. NOBODY was charged with anything!!! The 'right' will tell you, it was to 'stimulate the housing market', on behalf of the investors, the left will tell you that it was making housing 'affordable' to everyone, everybody claps for their side, and boos the other..the debate goes on, then withers..too boring...not 'entertaining' enough....the market bubble pops, we're left holding the bag, while the economy tanks, all those builders of homes go broke, out of work...and now the corporations have to 'find' a 'remedy'...which, in reality is just a set up, nearing the final scam....and the ideologues clap like a bunch of barking sea lions, bobbing on a buoy, trying to call attention to how wise they are, and why we should listen to them!.........Meanwhile poverty grows..but that's OK with the manipulators.......all you have to do is convince them to turn in their guns, (or their neighbors), and the threat of any resistance is a comfort to them! Now I'm not in anyway promoting any violent act, anywhere..but just describing their motives and paths we've been traveling on...and BOTH sides will debate it, and what party does what, may yet to be divied-up, or assigned, as to obscure what they've been up to, and where it's coming from....but, what they're doing, is they filter who's to support what, through the most compliant party....and the rank and file party devotee, may be sincere, as I'm sure some here are...but in reality, they have been sincerely deceived, and quieted, and beaten down. Am I still making sense, Larry??..All you have to do is stop rationalizing blame away, and watch the events go down, through all the very planned distractions! Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the privately owned 'Federal Reserve' will print up some more, non-backed, fiat money, ...ahhh sigh of relief....and charge us interest, to pay for the game they've been hoodwinking and scamming us with...Pretty slick, eh? Monsanto is just one of the crowd of big boys..so they get the benefits of the available government covering. It's not rocket science...it only seems that way, because they try to keep people stupid, as not to connect the dots!!! Anyway, have a great night...I might be up for a bit more...between practice sessions. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 13 - 01:43 AM Correction...so scratch the other one.... Thanks Larry...They did the same thing with the housing finance stuff...they got a loophole to work through..then they closed it, so nobody else could pull that off...and then they called it 'reform'.. everybody is relieved, and applauds..and then on top of it, with a new song and dance, that was hailed by one party or the other, they got bailouts, to boot!...and ever since they've been ducking and weaving, and got the parties into pointing fingers, as such on here...and they just walk away. NOBODY was charged with anything!!! The 'right' will tell you, it was to 'stimulate the housing market', on behalf of the investors, the left will tell you that it was making housing 'affordable' to everyone, everybody claps for their side, and boos the other..the debate goes on, then withers..too boring...not 'entertaining' enough....the market bubble pops, we're left holding the bag, while the economy tanks, all those builders of homes go broke, out of work...and now the corporations have to 'find' a 'remedy'...which, in reality is just a set up, nearing the final scam....and the ideologues clap like a bunch of barking sea lions, bobbing on a buoy, trying to call attention to how wise they are, and why we should listen to them!.........Meanwhile poverty grows..but that's OK with the manipulators.......all you have to do is convince them to turn in their guns, (or their neighbors), and the threat of any lesser resistance is a comfort to them! Now I'm not in anyway promoting any violent act, anywhere..but just describing their motives and paths we've been traveling on...and BOTH sides will debate it, and what party does what, may yet to be divied-up, or assigned, as to obscure what they've been up to, and where it's coming from....but, what they're doing, is they filter who's to support what, through the most compliant party....and the rank and file party devotee, may be sincere, as I'm sure some here are...but in reality, they have been sincerely deceived, and quieted, and beaten down. Am I still making sense, Larry??..All you have to do is stop rationalizing blame away, and watch the events go down, through all the very planned distractions! Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the privately owned 'Federal Reserve' will print up some more, non-backed, fiat money, ...ahhh sigh of relief....and charge us interest, to pay for the game they've been hoodwinking and scamming us with...Pretty slick, eh? Monsanto is just one of the crowd of big boys..so they get the benefits of the available government covering. It's not rocket science...it only seems that way, because they try to keep people stupid, as not to connect the dots!!! Anyway, have a great night...I might be up for a bit more...between practice sessions. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:13 AM What doesn't make sense is that GfinS blames everything and anything that can be construed, rightfully or not, directly on Obama... That is naive and ridiculous... Rep. Darryl Issa, after the 2010 election, telegraphed what a Republican led House of Representatives was going to be like in saying that it would be nothing more than an investigative branch of government and that as long as the Republicans held the House they were going to do nothing more than investigate, investigate and investigate some more... So here we are in the middle of scadalmania with really not all that much that has gone wrong compared to George W. Bush's administration... And no real evidence that Obama knew about any of these trumped up so-called scandals... Benghazi??? Where's the scandal here??? IRS??? Where's the scandal here??? Snowden??? Where's the scandal here??? I mean, let's get real here... The Republican House of Representatives is the problem... Not Obama... You can lay just about everything that is going wrong today in the government at their feet... This shifting of blame is hypocritical and the ***Big Lie***... That's my beef with GfinS and that's my beef with the Teapublicans... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 26 Jun 13 - 11:22 AM That makes sense, too. I see much more agreement than disagreement between what GFS and Bobert are saying. Just different phrases being 'highlighted'. I guess what it comes down to, however, is what can be done about it now? What's the best way to disseminate information about the harm Monsanto is doing, and what can a concerned public do that would be most effective? |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: sciencegeek Date: 26 Jun 13 - 11:50 AM Larry... the best way to discuss an issue is to do just that... discuss the issue... not scream or squabble or whatever else... that really turns off people and more importantly - discussion. who wants to go through a hundred or more posts of political bickering that has little or nothing much to do with understanding the facts of an issue??!!?? Political "facts" about legislation DOES NOT address the physical reality anymore than blasting back and forth about the role of the Pope and the Catholic Church explains a darn thing about astronomy and planetary orbits. It's an unpleasant distraction and the reason why gnu made the plea to take it elsewhere... if I take a swing at the Conservative Right it is because their support of Creationism is dangerous to any hope of maintaining the integrity of scientific education in America. I say this as someone trained not just in more than just one field of science but who also obtained my teaching certification IN biology and the sciences. The Soviet Union lagged behind for decades because of their idological embrace of the Lemarckian theory of evolution... now there are some who want to even further off course. Gulliver's Travels was not written for children... it was a satirical treatment of the idiocy going on in Great Britain at the time. And it still sums up political correctness and the glorification of irrational thinking. Just ducky, isn't it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: pdq Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:20 PM "Yet most of what GFS is saying seems to make a lot of sense to me. ~ Larry The Radio Guy That is why a few rabid attack dogs are trying (against Mudcat rules) to shut him up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:25 PM Bobert, I went to cut and paste some articles that would adequately answer your questions...but we should do that on another thread, being as that would be to extensive of a thread drift..and this is more about GMO's, and how and why they are finding their way past the laws of common sense both legally and morally. So pick it up on another thread....there is a lot to share with you, if you're REALLY interested...meanwhile: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:28 PM Thank you, pdq....The best way to curb corruption and deceit, is just simply shed light on it...some prefer darkness. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 26 Jun 13 - 12:47 PM Yes, geek... The embrace of un-science by the Teapublicans is standing in the way of progress on way too many fronts... Climate deniers top my list... Now that what the real scientists predicted would happen is coming to fruition the deniers have changed their mythology to blaming it on cycles... But back to GMOs... What we need is a NIH study of the effects of GMOs on animals... That would be a good start... I was going to suggest either the FDA or USDA but fear they have been infiltrated, like the EPA, with too many right wing ideologues who would make sure the study was screwed up... But my concerns don't stop at just the possible ill effects of GMOs on our physiology but the other concerns I have with GMOs and Monsanto such as how Monsanto is using the courts to bust on mom 'n pop farmers... There needs to be more journalistic investigation and reporting on that aspect... Also, the negative effects on out environment... I am already concerned about the way that agri-business farms... Way too many chemicals and way too much run off... Run off is polluting our water and killing our fish... The use of GMOs is contributing to this directly because with crops that are resistant to pesticides and herbicides these chemicals are increasingly in our streams, ponds, lakes, bays and oceans... Where is the study on that effect??? Yeah, the real scientists are still locked out as the fake ones get all the media time... That needs to change... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jun 13 - 11:26 AM Bobert: ".... I was going to suggest either the FDA or USDA but fear they have been infiltrated, like the EPA, with too many right wing ideologues who would make sure the study was screwed up..." Oh BULLSHIT!!..You and your 'blame the Republicans' for everything the Democrats are NOT doing! This has NOTHING to do with one party or the other..except which one has the latest crony d'jour! The problem lies in the corruptibility of both parties, and you know it! Nobody could be that blind or stupid...except a political operative, who just doesn't care..and thinking 'their' party is the only thing in town, flawlessly pristine...Get real! As long as THAT mentality is promoted, or defended, NOTHING will get done......and isn't that what the Monsanto and like minded lobbyists are counting on? As long as you perpetuate THAT myth, the lobbyists will simply take their corruption to the 'other' party, and then hide what they are doing behind 'ideological differences'...then we can argue, while the corrupt policies slip by, AGAIN!!!!!!!!! Wake up, Bobert....has eating too many foods made from GMO's lapsed you into a brain-dead coma?...and now your addicted??? Bobert's political practice is as..... Don't need any political party's needles stuck in my arms, Dera Buddy! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 27 Jun 13 - 04:47 PM I have friends who work for the EPA who have told me horror stories of the folks who were brought in as upper level managers under Bush and Cheney... Absolute horror stories... FDA is no secret... More crap going on in then in your average inner city sewage treatment plant... Corrupt agency... Why do you think that Bush and the Republicans insisted that the federal government not be allowed to negotiate drug prices with Big Pharm in the prescription drug bill they muscled thru Congress??? I used to do that song back in the 60s... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jun 13 - 06:03 PM Bobert: "Why do you think that Bush and the Republicans insisted that the federal government not be allowed to negotiate drug prices with Big Pharm in the prescription drug bill they muscled thru Congress???" Ya' think it was the same reason the insurance companies helped pass a bill that the Federal Government forced everybody to buy insurance??..They call it Obamacare, just in case you haven't been caught up in the latest! Bobert: "I used to do that song back in the 60s..." Ya' know what?...When the 'Doors' played the Hollywood Bowl, in '68, I watched from backstage... Steppenwolf opened for them, followed by 'The Chambers Brothers'..I thought 'Steppenwolf' sounded like a loud garage band....I was very underwhelmed....BUT, I did like that particular song...it was 'risque' at the time...sorta an expose(as in Ex-poh-say), of a dealer's mind....I sort like exposing bullshit, though I wish I didn't have to, when I see it...how 'bout you? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: Bobert Date: 27 Jun 13 - 07:44 PM Small world... My band opened for the Chambers Brothers at the Mosque in Richmond, Va, in 69 or 70... Guess that makes us cousins... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: GMOs... new thread. A must read. From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jun 13 - 10:13 PM Hey..They were TIGHT!...love to yak about it, let's find another thread...this one is for the GMO's...OK? GfS |
