A boring place

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:45 AM

I do not lie Jim, and I stopped posting on that thread because you stopped denying the only point I was making.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:39 AM

Keith
I have become a little tired of being called a liar by a congenital liar.
You did a runner from the Irish Famine site because you were caught out in one of your own lies - on the same site.
Please do not do it again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:36 AM

As this a place for opinion and challenging perceptions, would Mick agree that I was wrong about Keith?

I apologise.

I said he came out with comments that supported those who exhibit homophobia.

I was wrong.

He is as twisted and not fit for human consumption as the other disgraceful turds.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:20 AM

"The three of you continue to make the point. Take it outside, will ya?
Sorry Mick
I am on the point of asking to have this guy expelled from Mudcat - he really has done enough damage to this forum and needs to be stopped.
As much as I respect you and our past encounters, I really have no intention of walking away now, especially as his behaviour is now aimed directly at members of my family.
You please yourself.
"they made no such claims - it is one of your own sick invention "
If they didn't somebody did Mt Acheson
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 11:01 AM

"You can only be young once. But you can always be immature." Dave Barry

"I did not trip and fall. I attacked the floor and I believe I am winning" Anonymous

 "Sometimes when I close my eyes, I can't see" Anonymous 

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:41 AM

"Here I sit so patiently
Waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of
Going through all this stuff twice"

Gospel of Bob

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:41 AM

"Male homosexuals (MSM) are defined by who they like to have sex with, NOT by who they love."

True, as it is true that heterosexual are defined by their sexual preference.
The two terms define sexual preference.

"Heterosexual marriage is an excellent template for society, but the prevalence of "open relationships" amongst the male homosexual community is extremely risky and unhealthy in today's sexual climate."

Do you really deny that multiple concurrent partners is risky and unhealthy?
NAT states it is the cause of high infection rates.

"Many male homosexual relationships, unions and "marriages" are "open" by common consent."
I am sure many are, so that is a statement of fact.

"As such, they are radically different from conventional heterosexual marriages which are for the large part monogamous.

Open marriages ARE different from conventional monogamous ones.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:37 AM

Talk about thick .......

The three of you continue to make the point. Take it outside, will ya? I guess you are relevant to the discussion because you are giving a perfect example of what drives interesting, valued folks away. You follow each other around like hounds on a trail, taking over threads, and calling each other foul names. You make the same charges at each other over and over. Boorish behaviour to say the least.

It is a damn good thing I am simply a moderator complying with the owners wishes. If I owned the site you would all be gone. I'll probably get in trouble for saying that, but I just don't care. You lads need to wise up.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:31 AM

Musket, I do not need to do that, I have been reading his posts for years.
I say there are no examples of bigotry and challenge you to produce one.

Jim, it is a fact that Divis and I became friends and I still have dozens of his pms to prove it.

they made no such claims - it is one of your own sick invention

You have seen them many times Jim.
They all stated that the culture led to the offending, or do you deny that easily proven fact?

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:30 AM

Keith..

Can you read?

A ten second trawl finds in the discussion of HIV transmission the following;

Posted 1 April.   "Male homosexuals (MSM) are defined by who they like to have sex with, NOT by who they love."

In the same post, we see;

"Heterosexual marriage is an excellent template for society, but the prevalence of "open relationships" amongst the male homosexual community is extremely risky and unhealthy in today's sexual climate."

(Notwithstanding the worm's mixing of MSM with homosexual, which is like saying a girl enjoys a good fuck even if she claims to be a virgin.)

That's just one found within a minute of trying.

Tell you what, hang on, let's scroll down a couple of posts shall we?

30 March. "Many male homosexual relationships, unions and "marriages" are "open" by common consent."   Then we get "As such, they are radically different from conventional heterosexual marriages which are for the large part monogamous.. And next paragraph, "The studies also suggest that these "open" relationships which include multiple sexual partners are an additional risk in HIV transmission."   

By the way, there are thousands of rapists in prison and many more not caught yet. It must be very widely believed that the law is wrong, eh Keith?

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 10:06 AM

"Jim, if I was a racist would you have to go back over 4 years for a racist post which is not racist anyway?"
Sio it's not racist to describe "all Male Pakistani Muslims" to have a cultural implant tending them to having sex with underage girls
My, my - what a racist place the Britain you lie in must be nowadays.

You had reiterated that this remains your view whenever I bring it up - so it is as fresh as this morning's milk (probably not an apt comparison - fresh, that is - it's the stuff of sewers.
Your attack on Irish and Irish Americans was made this month and has been reiterated this week.
I cannot possibly see how you can be allowed to continue pumping out your filth on this forum
At the very least, the site administrators should ascertain that yur postings are kept within the law.
"The third asks why you do not heed them,"
I have answered this numerous times - they made no such claims - it is one of your own sick invention
Had they made such claims publicly they would have been in breach of British law, as you would had you the bottle to take it outside
It is, no doubt, the view of many in the B.N.P., but even they draw a line at stating it publicly for fear of spoiling their election chances.
"Divis and I were actually friends on pm"
That's a bit odd, isn't it - wasn't he one of those who complained about when your real name was made public during an argument, and when one of your opponents identified your daughter and suggested that she was on the game?
I was one of those who protested at the time.
You really should choose your friends more carefully.
You seem to be living in a world far removed from the one the rest of us occupy.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:52 AM

It is very widely believed that marriage is by definition mixed sex.
It is a valid opinion and not bigotry.

To my knowledge no-one has ever stated that "that gay men don't love but just want sex."

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:42 AM

Room 101

That's where you should park your hubris Keith.

Go on then, you try challenging Goofus or the worm with rational argument. Not possible. Partly because in the case of the worm, his lack of intelligence means he is fortified by your support for his claims.

Or do you really, actually, honestly think it ok when he makes sweeping statements that gay men don't love but just want sex, or that marriage should be called "marriage" if you hold the law in contempt? As you say you have no disrespect for gay people, why are dismissing as fair comment when he broadens his disdain for gay lifestyle by bringing in paedophilia and sex between family members as comparisons?

No bigotry here, is there Keith.

Witch!!

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:37 AM

Musket, we are all hugely impressed that you have learned to swear, as most of us did at Infants', but it would be more impressive if you produced one of these bigoted posts and explained what made it so.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:35 AM

100

Back for part 2 after these words from our sponsor

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:32 AM

Steve, I have never made a remotely bigoted statement, it is just that I have disagreed with you.

If anyone did make one, you could always expose and challenge it instead of just saying "Witch!" or in this case "Bigot!"

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:25 AM

Yes it was a cross post Jim.

the first in particular, represent a sweeping attack on, in the first case, an entire racial group

Of course not. Racial groups are not homogeneous so no thinking, intelligent person would ever do such a thing.
I was saying that I had come to believe what those eminent people had all said about their own culture, having no knowledge of it myself.

The second statement referred to the fact that those schools taught that Britain was culpable for the famine even though most historians denied it.

I have never said anything that would be illegal anywhere, and all this has been explained to you many times before.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 09:15 AM

Two bigots post to deny that there are bigots here. Says it all.

Keith, old chap, I doubt that there's anyone here who engages in the argument more than I do. Don't talk rubbish.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:59 AM

"This thread is about"
I take it you cross-posted - I would appreciate your opinion on the fact that the above statements, the first in particular, represent a sweeping attack on, in the first case, an entire racial group, and in the second, two, two ethnic cultures, both would contravene British law if they were made publicly
It really is time you were prevented from turning this site into a sewer.
By the way - if none of this is true, please feel free to report me to a site adjudicator - you really do have a right to.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:55 AM

Jim, if I was a racist would you have to go back over 4 years for a racist post which is not racist anyway?

It has but 3 sentences.
The first states clearly that no-one, least of all me "believes Muslims are all evil, oppressive, chauvinist, paedophile rapists, made so by their cultural upbringing."

The second says that I merely had come to accept what prominent members of that community said about their own culture.

The third asks why you do not heed them, a question still unanswered.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:45 AM

This thread is about how our site has deteriorated since ranting people like you came along.
As Joe said, you are incapable of challenging what you disagree with and make up for your inadequacy with mindless attack using just ridicule and abuse.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:44 AM

The world according to Keith
Jim Carroll

"RE MUSLIM UNDERAGE SEX (my title – Jim Carroll)
Don, no one on this thread has claimed any of those things.
Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency" but only because of the testimony of all those knowledgeable people, and always acknowledging that only a tiny minority succumb.
Do you dismiss all that just because it does not fit your preconceptions, or do you have some powerful evidence to the contrary that you have not shared with us?

Subject: RE: BS: Irish Potato Blight- Cause found
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 07:13 AM
Re BRITISH CULPABILITY IN OUTCOME OF THE GREAT IRISH FAMINE
(my title - Jim Carroll)
"YOU HAVE HAD NOT ONE IOTO OF SUPPORT"
Not surprising when generations of school children have been brainwashed to believe Britain should be blamed, keeping hate alive.
Irish schools at least since 1922 and NY State schools since 1996 by decree.
Massachusetts?"

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Musket
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:38 AM

Most certainly. He definitely is to the right of it.

I suppose his lack of understanding of the terms bigot and homophobe explain a few things even if they don't excuse them.

Nobody has been here for years Keith. Everybody sends in each post as their first ever post. No incremental pay rises, you fool.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: bobad
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:31 AM

"The fact is there are no racists, homophobes or bigots here, just people with different views to you who can not challenge so you denounce them instead."

Keith has got the right of it.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 07:25 AM

"Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you."
Like the old Irish story of the Irish wise woman who laid a curse on a farmer who wouldn't give her water at the time of the Famine.
She told him he would die, and sure enough, fifty years later he did.
Your fear/hate apprehension is both groundless and a clear indication of personal prejudice - whence the difference when it's aimed at "Muslims" rather than Muslim extremists.
I have never had any doubt that it was fear/hate that sent many millions of people to their deaths in the first half of the 20th century and the sad thing that they were all reasonable, civilised people who allowed it to happen.
"If only you were capable of winning the argument."
Still trying to "win" something Keith - why not buy a Lotto ticket?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Apr 14 - 06:41 AM

Divis and I were actually friends on pm, sharing experiences and joking about the progress of our rows in the threads.

Steve,
Musket is dead right: the bigots, the homophobes, the racists, the fundamentalists must not be indulged. They must be ridiculed and confronted

What a shame you are unable to challenge what they say, instead of ridicule and confrontation.
If only you were capable of winning the argument.

The fact is there are no racists, homophobes or bigots here, just people with different views to you who can not challenge so you denounce them instead.

You see bigotry where there is none.
Who asked you to ride in here and start denouncing people who have been here for years?
We liked things as they were thank you.
Go and save someone else please.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 10:57 PM

oh Janie! big kiss and give your bum a cyber squeeze! all these arguments are really daft. arguments between people who have never net each other. how daft is that!

very daft people indeed! its like I was trying to say and obviously not managing it with Divis and Keith. ard, who was no fool, reckoned Divis was a fantasist who didn't know the provisional IRA from Ira Gershwin, and there was Keith getting all worked up. and there were the Yanks treating his utterances as though they were interviewing the wild colonial boy.

late night love and kisses sweetie! don't run away!

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Janie
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 10:03 PM

Have typed and deleted more posts than I care to admit.

For myself, I will simply say I feel increasingly marginalized and unwelcomed here.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 08:44 PM

Exactly who did I call a name, Steve?

As to shutting it down to get the last word, there are two points that are instructive. 1) I gave everyone a lot of room and time to make their points. I didn't limit the discussion in any way. You voiced your opinion all through the thread. 2) It is my thread. If I think it has run its course, I can have it shut down. We do that for others as well. I have, at the request of the initiator (look it up), shut down threads at their request.

If the shoe fits, Steve, put that sucker on. Now ..... we will not hijack this thread with talk of that one anymore.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 07:19 PM

Actually, Steve, I shut it down because the only thing happening was the BBOP's were getting redundant in their worn out justifications for being obnoxious, arrogant asses. As to your pathetic challenge, it isn't necessary to prove what is apparent. You seek to challenge me, but I am not the issue.

I note the name-calling in your post. I note the snide last word you indulged yourself in before you shut the thread. How diminishing for you. You're no paragon, are you? I note also your lack of irony in so doing. As for the rest, it's gibberish. I hope you're feeling better.

As for people leaving because they get pissed off, a few points.

1. You do not have to open a thread. If you open a thread that you know will offend you, you're barking mad.

2. If you accidentally open a thread that then seems to offend you, it takes about two seconds to recognise it as such and click to somewhere else. The damage to your sensibilities will be minimal.

3. You do not have the right to not be offended, but you do have the right, and the means, to avoid offensive material.

4. This is not a purely political/controversial forum, not by a long chalk. There are something like seventy threads in front of me on today's page. Most of them are not of interest to me. Some, both above and below the line, definitely are, some might be, so I'll dip in. On the whole, the experience here is pleasant. There are threads on topics which interest me which I no longer visit (for example, one on Israel, another on HIV transmission). Each of those threads is plagued by a complete idiot (more than one in the case of the Israel thread, and Jim will know I'm not referring to him), both of them arch-bigots, and I decided ages ago that the game wasn't worth the candle. But, you see, this stuff doesn't get me down. I'm in control. I avoid stuff I don't want to bother with. Life's too short.

5. I'm a little bit anti-religion. But what I don't do is seek out the bits of religion that might offend me (I'm not easily offended as it happens, which I know can be annoying). For example, as a somewhat anti-religious person, I don't go into Sunday Mass and come out ranting about how terrible the priest was in his sermon. I avoid Sunday Mass. If I came here and gave you a weekly report on the Sunday Mass down the Catholic church in Bude, you'd think I was mad. So all these people who, allegedly, depart from Mudcat because they have sought and found what they regard as nastiness - aren't they doing exactly the same thing? Are they really worth it? Of those seventy threads, I'd bet that sixty-three or four are bereft of "nastiness" in whatever sense you want to view it. So why do people really leave? It isn't an honest conversation this, is it?

6. Musket is dead right: the bigots, the homophobes, the racists, the fundamentalists must not be indulged. They must be ridiculed and confronted. We need to try to make the world a better place and indulging bad people is not the way to do it. And these are bad people. Even the ones who assume a gentle veneer. Soft faces, hard cases. If you're pissed off because you think this forum is worse than it was, try to recognise the people who truly drag it into the gutter. Anyone for a bit of anti-Darwinism now?

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: GUEST,Leadbelly
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 05:35 PM

Hmmm, reading about the second part of this discussion is excactly what I expected.

Will not make a decision about whether it is boring or exciting, but in any case it's not alongside the original thread-title.

leeneia: I'm trying to answer your question next time.

To Al: nice to meet you here again. I still like your wonderful music!

To all others concentrating upon the original thread: many thanks. Naturally, I'm aware of the fact that it is somewhat easy to critizise something but I deeply feel that today Mudcat is no longer so attractive as it was a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 05:18 PM

Fear 


Rest easy, M the GM, no one should call you a racist, as it is a religion of many world races (including people like you) not a race of people. Fear is a legitimate concern/condition regarding many issues, as the article in the link above explains.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 05:07 PM

I'm not 'anti-muslim', Dick. Just scared to Shitsville of them... But the instamatic racism-spotter subcutaneously fitted to so many a Mudcatter will have been triggered, I am well aware...

~M~

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 04:04 PM

Well I'm not cheering at the suspicion that "Islamists" are trying to infiltrate (?) schools, but it's quite amusing to recall that Christianity has been doing that exact same thing in the supposedly secular UK so effectively that an act of daily worship in schools is the law of the land.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 03:42 PM

got to admit....its a drag Bob and Joannie stopped dropping in. you shouldn't have called him a wanker, Jim.

And when Keith made that crack, it's alright ma!(its only a bleeding idiot). I knew he wasn't happy.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 02:54 PM

the topic we were off.........is it boring, and are we missing the input of people who pissed off because they didn't like the cut of our jib?

nah...! bollocks to 'em!

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 02:40 PM

I do not claim to be an expert on the muslim religion, but I would be surprised, if all muslim sects took exectly the same view point on womens rights.
I believe that some people are anti muslim, because they see them as a threat, some of these same people also dislike all foreigners.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 01:56 PM

Dick: Xtns murder Xtns, sure; & Sunnis murder Shias. What's that to do with it? All these 'many sects' are bound by the Koran, within which they are enjoined...

Oh, wotsa use!

Sorry again...

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 01:51 PM

'"And this fills one with apprehension, as if one were living over a volcano."
It may leave you feeling that Mike - but I suggest that this is more to do with your prejudices than it has reality'....
.,,.
...& can't resist quoting here the old observation, "Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you."

Och a-weel. Time will tell. But I shan't be there to say "Tolger-so"...

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:58 PM

The muslim religion is as diverse as the christian religion,within the christian religion there are many sects, fairly recently catholics and protestants were murdering each other in ulster, yet they are all supposed to be christian.
Please can everyone remember that within the muslim religion there are as many variations as there are in the christian religion, hopefully this is not boring anyone.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:53 PM

" before poor old Mick has apoplexy!."
I think he's a damn sight more tolerant than some people - myself included
Sorry again Mick
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:45 PM

Agreed -- except must just rejoin, re your "all faiths in one form or another", & the Hasidim, that Judaism is resolutely & specifically non-proselytising. It is made hard to convert in even if you want to. It's a club. Outsiders not welcomed.

But, yes. Let's have done with this on this thread for now, before poor old Mick has apoplexy!.

See you on another thread some time. Mebbe!

~M~

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:34 PM

"faith does lay proselytising injunctions on the faithful"
Don't all faiths in or form or another?
I was to be married once, before I left home.
The father of the girl I was planning to marry insisted that I convert to Catholicism, and when that was a non starter, I had to sign to say we would have any children of the union brought up as Catholics - over the wall before you could say "Don't eat meat on Friday"
There are around 300,000 Hasidic Jews in Britain - ten percent of them are orthodox, around 20,000 live in North London - a threat to the British way of life - don't think so - do you?
"Ask any of the faithful who take these injunctions seriously"
I have - the ones I discussed religion with were far more tolerant of other and non-believers than most 'Christians' who "take their injunctions seriously" than I've met, and a damn sight easier to talk to.
"And this fills one with apprehension, as if one were living over a volcano."
It may leave you feeling that Mike - but I suggest that this is more to do with your prejudices than it has reality.
As I get a little tired pointing out, Muslim communities in Britain are noted for their unobtrusiveness, law-abiding nature and their efforts to meld into the community (if they were allowed to).
Thankfully, we have not yet entered into Tom Cruise's 'Minority report' of detaining potential criminals before they commit their crimes.
"Do you realize you are completely off topic?"
Sorry Mick - of course we are - I said it wasn't goint to happen and it has - but it's quite civilised for a change, and I hope it's not boring, but maybe it is.
Let's give it a rest and pick up some other time Mike
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:16 PM

Sorry, Big Mick...

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:15 PM

"It seems unfair to equate the vast majority of them with the behaviour of a handful of extremists"...
.,.,
Nobody's equating. MERELY FEARFUL OF THE DISPROPORTIONATE POTENTIAL OF THE 'HANDFUL'. [sorry: shift lock, not shout]. If only it were just a matter of 'fairness'!. But 'It's so-o-o unfair,' is a notoriously ineffectual plea. I want to be just & fair to that vast majority. I expect they are as apprehensive, from a somewhat different pov, as I am. So what are they going to do about it? What can they do about it? And do they really want to? Or do not fear to? Is there any record of their community ever actually co-operating with the authorities in identifying this dangerous element within them. I think not. But don't tell me none of them knows who they are. Maybe they are scared. Maybe some of them are more sympathetic to the dissidents than they would like you to think ~~ even if they do drink at that bar in Harrow High St... Glad that afforded you some 'amusement'...

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 12:01 PM

Jim gets cross when you tell him that.
He calls in censorship.

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 11:54 AM

Lads ....... Do you realize you are completely off topic?

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 11:53 AM

No, I don't either! I've always been a Times person. I do take your points. But there is no burking the fact that the faith does lay proselytising injunctions on the faithful. Ask any of the faithful who take these injunctions seriously about this amenable and integrated majority, and they will denounce them as bad Muslims. You know this is true. And I know that such are a minority, but one who can be effective. {It wasn't any sort of majority who knocked the WTC Towers down: it was 5 or 6 men; but they fell down just the same!}. And this fills one with apprehension, as if one were living over a volcano. I don't see how we can live at ease with it. I honestly don't want to be alarmist; and fully accept the fact that they are here, and it is the duty of all to try and make their presence work. No good crying over spilt milk, and all that. Here they are and they're not going away. I'm OK. I shall be dead v soon and I have no children to worry about. But even the Irish Troubles had a sort of recognisable rationale not present in the Rigby incident. Let's hope that such never occurs again. But how high can be these hopes? You will express faith in the ability of the rational majority to be able to control the rebellious elements in their midst. Let's hope you are right. But if all were as calm and comparatively worry-free as you hope, they wouldn't be holding this enquiry in Birmingham, would they?

~M~

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 11:00 AM

Mike
Any religion, in the hands of fundamentalists, is a dangerous thing - I seem to remember stoning adulterers features sever times in the Christian Bible - can't recall that type of thing happening much in Birmingham - it's all down to how the scriptures (any scriptures) are interpreted and acted on.
As far as the treatment of women are concerned, domestic violence, treating women as "meat"... that seems a feature of all communities and applies to nearly all religious groups and communities in general.
One of the distinguishing features of the Muslim communities in Britain is that they are law abiding, unobtrusive, hard-working and, as was announced last year, the first to declare themslves British and the most likely to integrate into the host community.
It seems unfair to equate the vast majority of them with the behaviour of a handful of extremists.
It used to amuse me when I attended the Herga Club in Harrow all those years ago, taht I had to queue up at the bar alongside a load of young Muslim building workers.
I doubt if anybody could claim that the British behaved as well as the British Muslims do when they are away from home.
Sorry Mike - I don't read the Daily Mail, so maybe I'm a little out-of touch.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: A boring place
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Apr 14 - 10:00 AM

EdT
It's more like a Manx cat chasing its tale

Yep - a double-headed pun.

Regards