This is really poor

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:23 PM

Hi Steve. I'm still wondering why you called me a neo-Darwinist.

I can't remember. Was it in this thread? Can't you see what I'm having to deal with here? :-)

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:20 PM

I tried to send a PM to SRS three times in a row ion the space of about twenty minutes but the sending was blocked each time. I managed, without difficulty, to send one to another member, at more or less the same time. What do you expect me to think? Whatever happened to honesty?

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 07:16 PM

Interesting that we have a moderator who appears to be blocking one's PMs now! :-)

[This moderator has never heard of a way to block PMs]

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 07:13 PM

"
Akenaton spews out views that are based on lies aimed at demonising gay people.

Under UK law, he has no right whatsoever in propagating hatred for that purpose and we have laws to protect people from abuse."

Ian, you know very well that I have published nothing which is in any way criminal. If my statistics are lies, they are not my lies, but lies propagated by the two premier health agencies in the US and the UK.
Their new infection rates for HIV and all other sexual diseases are almost identical, a huge over representation of MSM in the figures.

Are you seriously saying that this is a lie?

I can back everything I say with supporting facts, you on the other hand have nothing but abuse .....and a flawed ideology.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:57 PM

Shaw, you're in no position to demand answers from anyone else here in the thread. Get over yourself. You'll find a PM. Let this be the end of it.

You may call me Steve, as you do in your long-winded and somewhat unrevealing PM.

I'm not demanding anything. It's your gig. Not mine. I said that, oh, last week, I think. Don't dishonestly up the ante by implying that I'm somehow making massive demands. If this forum is supposed to be inclusive then don't raise issues that exclude people not in the know who might then display natural curiosity. That just looks like baiting. And I said looks like, not that you were baiting. But if I ask you about something you'd sooner not discuss, just say you'd sooner not discuss it. I do that in real life all the time. Don't go all dark and then say you don't want to discuss it. I'm shrugging here, thinking that I don't want to discuss what you don't want to discuss. If that's your idea of my getting over myself, you insulting bugger, then ask yourself what it is that you need to get over. You do appear to get a little upset at times.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:52 PM

"Under UK law, he has no right whatsoever in propagating hatred for that purpose and we have laws to protect people from abuse."

Does UK law allow for propagating antisemitic hatred as defined by the European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC)? and are there laws to protect people from this type of abuse? Just wondering.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:51 PM

Hi Steve. I'm still wondering why you called me a neo-Darwinist.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:44 PM

offence the noun

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:43 PM

Thus, Steve, your isolation is an abdication - and a departure from the founding nature of what most of America thinks of as "folk music" - the things descended from Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie - even Bob Dylan. You did not receive the threats that many of us did. You simply do not know. Or perhaps you are pretending not to know.

This is extremely offensive (though I always tend to regard people who give extreme offense as bloody twits, and never generally take offence). The only correct part of this scurrilous paragraph is the bit that says I did not receive threats. Too right I didn't. But the worst bit is the implication of dishonesty, that I was "pretending not to know". Whatever else anyone here thinks about my posts, I'm not having people say that I am in any way dishonest. Read my lips, arsehole (and stop sending me stupid PMs while you're at it): I did not know anything at all about what is now being alleged. Not the bloody faintest inkling. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, and I hope it bloody chokes you. Love Steve (in rare animated mode).

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Musket
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:15 PM

Akenaton spews out views that are based on lies aimed at demonising gay people.

Under UK law, he has no right whatsoever in propagating hatred for that purpose and we have laws to protect people from abuse.

I would have thought that shouting him down was the most civil thing to do. I would like nothing more dearly than to see him with a criminal conviction.

There is nothing wrong in not liking, not understanding or not agreeing. But publishing hatred based on lies is a criminal act where Akenaton is situated.

I merely keep pointing this out. Not because I like laws but because gay people are as welcome on Mudcat as Scottish bigots. Equally.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 05:42 PM

Hinted? At least I don't seem to have stated explicitly that I can read your mind....which of course I can't possibly do. And of course, neither can those who accuse the loudest.

It took what seemed like a very long time to get you to explicitly state your justifications for certain views..except for 'statistics'... and several- including myself- offered competing statistics that we felt pointed to different conclusions about what *ought to be done*.

If I at least managed to 'mostly' confine myself to debating 'rational solutions', I am glad. I do hope YOU see why those who disagree with you get so intense about it.

You did finally explain that you had a different 'world view'... which is a different discussion in itself. I spent years filling my head with different views about pragmatism, utilitarianism, hedonism, communism, democracy, monarchy, ... and all the variants on each one. It is an interesting exercise to imagine what would change if somehow any of those systems were adopted totally by some society or country.. (Most systems are an amalgam, no matter what they call themselves.)
I can only wonder why you...or anyone... with a minority view came to their position. Simple 'facts' are not usually the deciding factor.... we humans can't always explain our decisions.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 04:52 PM

Well Bill, I do try to base my posts/opinions on verifiable sources of information, yet I am viciously attacked from all sides. because the subjects are deemed by the attackers as beyond discussion.

How does one counter that attitude? I have tried to remain civil throughout and put my case rationally, but some believe that their ideology/personality is beyond debate, and anyone who contradicts it, is a "racist", "homophobe", "bigot" etc, etc.

Even those with Master's degrees in Philosophy, have hinted at such things on occasion? :0)

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 04:32 PM

I agree the quality of discussion on this thread is really poor.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 01:54 PM

What I am..(if you are too new to have known)... is a graduate in Philosophy. (134 hours and 1/3 of a Master's thesis). I never made a career out of it, but the basic lessons in what counts as logic and consistency have stayed with me..... and it can be scary. ;>0)
I can't read these discussions without wishing I could "train & supervise" all sorts of folks in basic logic..etc. Being aware of basic rules of argument would NOT mean that everyone would automatically agree on basic truth, morality and political correctness.... but it might avoid some of the most egregious errors in HOW to present & defend a position.
Some folks seem to exercise general 'reason' and fairness without resort to technical explanations... others never seem to. Why? Ask the psychologists.... who will give you answers that often only muddy the issue even more.

All this is why I type all these long, tedious attempts to make sense of an issue... I seldom have a clear, simple answer to the serious issues; I have MY opinions, and I have spent hours in the last 12-14 years on gun control, women's rights, political stances, 'fairness', language,... and arrrgghhh.. the "meaning of folk".

You may notice that disagreements seem to continue in spite of my inspired *grin* explanations....

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: GUEST,CL!NT WESTWOOD
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:02 PM

Bill, if you are not already a mod, you should be.
Or maybe even better still - head of training and supervision for mudcat mods.

                  +++++++++++++++

30 odd years ago, one of my favourite elements of my degree,
was part of the 'Ethics' course concerning concepts of 'moral education' and 'moral maturity'.

There were 2 key books that were a real inspiration.
now rotting away mildewed in a storage box somewhere....

But even after a lifetime of bitter disapointment, futile battles, day to day social pettyness & treachery,
failing eyesight and erroding memory;
that basic grounding is still deep down positively underpinning my core values, personality, and interactions with other people..

At whatever level I might be in any hierarchy of 'authority'.....

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 11:29 AM

The problem is, ake, there are several views on how a discussion about constructing a civilised society should be conducted.

Like educating children, electing leaders, staffing an army... or even simple things like caring for a garden... there are far more ways of "doing it wrong" than doing it right (i.e.achieving a result that follows your intent.) The debates often get confused over both defining a sane intent and finding practical ways to achieve that intent.

I recently started that thread about "very hard things to do', and people made a few remarks about some of them- but no one seems to have gotten in to perhaps the hardest of all: )Being able to separate your rationality from your personality.

All too often people cannot really tell you exactly why they HAVE an opinion(part of their **personality**)... and it is a VERY hard thing to do to work out thru their childhood, their experiences, their peer groups...etc. etc.. how they came to an opinion...but once 'set' in their heads, they will adjust their **rationality** to defend it. "My mind's made up- don't confuse me with facts!" You get two people with different opinions nose-to-nose and they resort to "dueling facts" for awhile, then to "dueling insults" when facts fail.. as they usually do.

Everyone kinda knows that there are rules for sane, logical arguments, but those rules are long and complex and hard to remember in detail... and 'rules' are damned inconvenient when they might show YOU are inconsistent, prejudiced, illogical and just plain silly.

So.... debates over how much.. or little... the mods should exercise control over Mudcat gets hung up on "Being able to separate your rationality from your personality." It soon devolves into ^metaarguments and there's no end to it all............thus, someone occasionally points, as SRS did, to the owner's opinion (Max). This is his forum, and he has designated a few people to make some attempt to keep order. Do THEY occasionally get their rationality mixed with their personality? No doubt... as does the President of the US, the Prime Minister of the UK, members of all legislatures, and you own sainted Mother!~ That's how it is... someone has authority in most situations, and we'd all do well to remember that. There are ways to change WHO has authority....but.....hmmmmm.. it seems that those ways are determined by differences in rationality and personality...


ooops

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 10:02 AM

At least Richard, you have had a stab at defining the problem here.
We have two different views on how a "civilised" society should be constructed.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Musket
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:15 AM

"Definition of Poobad was bang on"

- Musket

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 07:29 AM

"Definitions belong to the definers, not the defined."
― Toni Morrison

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 06:17 AM

So, is that a tacit admission?

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 05:34 AM

I cannot fathom any equivalent belief in the intent to better the world at large amongst the right-wingers
.,,.

Sometimes I wish I could be as sure of anything as self-proclaimed left-wing believers like Richard Bridge are of everything.

~M~

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 04:42 AM

To an extent, we have obligations to ourselves to assert what we believe to be socially correct. Those of us who believe that rampant individualism impoverishes society in general tend also to believe that we have an obligation to society to assert what we believe to be socially correct.   If you do not assert the wrong-headedness of some things then Pastor Niemoller's warning becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Thus, Steve, your isolation is an abdication - and a departure from the founding nature of what most of America thinks of as "folk music" - the things descended from Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie - even Bob Dylan. You did not receive the threats that many of us did. You simply do not know. Or perhaps you are pretending not to know.

The mods did then, and continue generally to do, an excellent job. That said, even Homer nods, and as you will have seen if you bothered to look or to try to understand, I had some differences with Max about the appropriate policy.   Nonetheless, he made resources available that led (apparently and eventually) to the marginalisation of the threat.

That threat is or was different to the issue here. I see the current issue as the relentless (laundry-list follows) right-wing, Zionist, racist, neocon (indeed "liberal" in the economic sense of the word - look it up if you don't believe me) militaristic and Xtian fundamentalist and intentionally ignorant rantings of a few. They, doubtless, see it as a relentless (laundry-list follows) left-wing, anti-semitic, politically correct "liberal"(in their usage of the word)pacifistic and godless rantings of a few. A different few.

Those with views like mine (yes, there are differences of opinion amongst us - notably over Ireland and Argentina) or in part overlapping with or tending towards mine albeit perhaps, as to the many, less forceful about it, assert that we defend cohesive social values, the progress of the spirit (if any) towards a civilised society and away from barbarism. I cannot fathom any equivalent belief in the intent to better the world at large amongst the right-wingers and fellow travellers. We (I believe) see them simply as sociopaths, who should be tolerated only to a limited extent.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 04:16 AM

"I wish sometimes, that those puffed up performers who don't want to listen to their lessers would stay away from the sings."

Actually, pete, I don't see it as "puffed up performers" vs "lessers". At most singarounds that I go to it's serious, competent, entertaining/inspiring performers vs increasing numbers of lazy, self-indulgent, talentless gits who bore the pants off everyone - usually by droning tunelessly through some interminable ditty that they've got written on a sheet of paper or in a notebook. The very least that such bores should do is to learn the f***ing words!! If they did that, and then made an effort to inject some life into their 'performances', I might respect them more!

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 08:23 PM

Of all the times for the gremlin to eat a response.

Shaw, you're in no position to demand answers from anyone else here in the thread. Get over yourself. You'll find a PM. Let this be the end of it.

SRS

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 08:17 PM

Not the point, Steve.

Mudcat is a valuable, useful resource. Among other things it hosts the Digital Tradition database, which contains the words and some tunes of thousands of traditional songs, along with posts that talk about the histories and backgrounds of those songs. And if one has a question about a particular song or particular singer, a quick and generally knowledgeable answer is usually forthcoming often within minutes of asking the question. This, along with frequent bulletins about who is singing where—not to mention learning about good singers you may have never heard of before. Questions about musical instruments, the histories of songs, all kinds of things frequently answered by someone highly knowledgeable in the area you're asking about.

As to the B.S. section, you have a non-musical forum where, again, you're able to express an opinion on politics and world happenings in general and get feedback. Naturally, people being what that are and the world being what it is, not everyone is going to agree with you, but therein lies its value. One can read a variety of opinions and viewpoints, sometimes gain new insights, and hone one's debating skills for discussions in the 3-D world.

Or, perhaps, in the face of a cogent, intelligent, and well reason argument, one may indeed gain new insights into the issue ("I never thought of it that way before!") and change one's mind.

BUT—

Not if someone responds to your post with something like:

"What kind of a moron are you!!!?????? Where did you pick up a stupid idea like that, out of some so-called liberal propaganda sheet??????? Take your moronic opinions and stuff them up your ass, you retard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

……is not exactly conducive to rational discussion. Yet, that seems to be the style of an increasing number of people who have slithered their way onto Mudcat, particularly the B.S. section.

But fortunately, that number is small. This is where I think the moderators should be concentrating their efforts a bit more intently. People HAVE been blocked from Mudcat, including the B.S. section, for behaving like foul-mouth barbarians. Notably, "Martin Gibson," and a couple of others whose whole intention was to disrupt discussions and make people angry.

AND perhaps drive them away from Mudcat, thereby depriving themselves of a valuable resource.

I refuse to be driven off Mudcat, even off the B.S. section, by people who seem to be incapable of civilized behavior. That's THEIR problem, not mine!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 07:23 PM

Good post, Clint.

As for this:

Can you guys please just leave it alone?

Leave what alone? If you want us to "leave it alone", don't you think it would be nice to tell us precisely what it is we're supposed to "leave alone"? Or do you merely want to do the "I'm in the in-crowd" secretive bit and keep us at bay?

Answers, if any, in the thread, please. I'm not the only one in the dark about all this dark talk. Plain speaking in the thread please. PMs definitely not welcome. Over to you. Or just bugger off.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 07:04 PM

Well bugger me sideways with a bent banana. I was a very active poster here at the time of all that shenanigans yet I didn't have a bloody clue about any of it. Not a bloody clue. Not the faintest inkling. I wonder why. No, actually, I don't wonder why. It's because I don't personally click on threads that might (a) bore me, (b) not address issues in which I have any interest, (c) upset me, (d) be populated by some tiresome pillock or pillocks who might get my goat (game not worth candle, sort of thing). A coupla things. Yes I feel sorry for moderators who have to read everything (though the moderators here actually do very little indeed anyway by way of effective moderating compared to every other discussion forum I've been involved with), and second, in spite of all the dark talk from SRS and the stuff on that link, I still haven't a bloody clue about what's supposed to have happened. I'm not a mind-reader. "Something horrible's happened and you'd better bloody believe it but I'm going to keep you in the dark so you'd better shut your face". Nice work, SRS and co. But hardly the way to get people onside. Do what you have to do. Shut down the BS section. Shut down the whole bloody site. Do what you like, because you can. No-one will die. There is no law that says you have to keep this going or that you have to stay here. Go for the sunlit uplands. You have the choice. Abandon ship. Believe me, you'll get over it within hours.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 05:46 PM

analogy? Moi? Perhaps a teeny metaphor. ☺

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 04:29 PM

I wish sometimes, that those puffed up performers who don't want to listen to their lessers would stay away from the sings. then there might be just the respectful and encouraging participants left.
those that usually listen to others, rather than talk through and over others efforts.
and I presume, bill, that you are making an analogy to those on mudcat, and it has just occurred to me that educationally, I would be one of the lessers here!
.....that's assuming that THIS post takes!.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:01 PM

Kendall... it was not "taken over"... it was, if anything, abdicated. No one can "take over' a forum like this unless hoards of the good ones surrender and rationalize being like lemmings... or can't take enough time from Facebook to bother...

Once upon a time at the FSGW Open Sing, when we met at church with 2 levels, there was a group who decided that an "open" sing allowed..oh, horrors.. too many not-too-good singers who bored the 'anointed', so after and hour or so, there was a gradual sneaking away to the basement to have a private party.... thus making 'boring' become a self-fulfilling hypothesis.
There are STILL some who will not come to a sing which does not come up to their 'standards'... but Friday night we had about 25 folk sing & play and chat, and enjoy themselves....and yes, there were moments which were less-than-wonderful- but it was sharing and helping and being 'folk'. Not a bad thing....

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 02:13 PM

I've been a member here for many years, and, like the old gray mare, it aint what it used to be. It was taken over by malcontents and fault finders, and those in charge seemed to not care, so, I did what I could do, I left.

I rarely check in anymore, but I see things have not changed.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:31 PM

The group of writers that's meeting at our place today won't be arriving for a couple of hours yet.

Goofus, in your post of 13 Jul 14 - 01:38 AM, other than the parts where you are quoting me, it's totally incoherent. What in hell are you struggling to say?

Note:   I've been posting on Mudcat since September of 1999, and for several years there, Mudcat was warm, friendly, and welcoming. 'Spaw was particularly warm and gracious in welcoming me to the 'Cat.   

But—gradually, within recent years, it has become a minefield of gradually increasing nastiness, coming, not from the original group, but from a relatively small number of people who are not that much interested in music, but who spend most of their time wanting to argue politics and just about anything else, as long as it's controversial. I think that's why Max started the B.S. section. To keep the Philistines from messing up the music discussions, which were intelligent, thoughtful, and informative.

Unfortunately, it's not really possible to have a rational discussion of anything controversial because Mudcat's B.S. section has become a gathering spot for internet thugs and hooligans, i.e., trolls. People who are not here to discuss music, and are only marginally interested in music, if at all. And many of them seem to be looking for a fight, because they are the ones who provoke it.

Frankly, it would not break my heart if the B.S. section were eliminated and Mudcat limited itself to discussions of music only, deleting any posts not having to do with music.

Now, I enjoy a good, hot argument over a controversial issue (and I have several hobby horses), but such discussions are best carried on face-to-face rather than anonymously on the internet.

Face-to-face forces a degree of civility.

Some cowardly types, hiding behind an internet handle, feel free to say things that, in a face-to-face confrontation, would provoke their adversary to grab their shirt front, shove them up against a wall, and slap the living snot out of them.

So, to start with, a troll is a coward.

Later. Got to get ready for our guests.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:06 PM

Thanks Greg. Good to know it was all sorted.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 12:06 PM

I suggest that anyone who missed it READ that bit of history. Then re-read any of your own posts about how easy it is to just ignore stuff you don't like- and how the internet is like the Wild West and how the timid should stay home & lock their doors.

THIS forum is for PEOPLE----all people who strive to get along with other people (read Max's 3rd from the last post in that thread). Even in the Wild West they knew that some people were needed to help police the bars, stores, streets...etc... so that even timid people could have a chance to work & play. Do not assume that having a thick skin gives you the right to harass those who do not!

There is no clear 'line' dividing friendly and helpful posting from meanness and obnoxiousness....it gets fuzzy in the middle... and as Max said, we do not need a site which keeps... "... moderators busy with circular logic, pedantic idiocy and political disputes in which it's obvious at least one of the participants doesn't actually care about the ideology..."

THAT is what is "really poor".

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 10:47 AM

Agreed. If you weren't here, you don't know how bad it was (and you can consider yourself fortunate). It isn't paranoid, there is someone who still comes and goes but back before Max and Joe found all of his sleeper accounts was a pain in the ass. Many of us became instant experts on Internet security. There are lots of members who could chime in to offer accounts of his abuse across social media, but we all know that it would just tempt the creep to start over again. Here is a bit of history.

SRS

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 10:15 AM

I thought you had gone, Greg F.

I had, indeed, Dave. Bit of a misunderstanding with the moderators; all sorted now. So "The report of my death was an exaggeration."

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: caitlin rua
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 09:44 AM

> But I do feel you may be exhibiting signs of almost paranoid obsession

Clint - she's not.

And it isn't about distrusting every Guest. At all. Can you guys please just leave it alone?

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: GUEST,CL!NT WESTWOOD
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 08:03 AM

Stilly River Sage, now I don't know if you are a mod; and if you are,
if you are the over-officious mod with bad attitude who's actions caused this thread to be opened in the first place ?

I also don't know the full extent of any nasty experience you and your friends endured, inflicted by severe sociopaths
plaguing mudcat ?

But I do feel you may be exhibiting signs of almost paranoid obsession that there are 'trolls' hiding behind every tree,
under every tiny bridge, dark shady crevice or corner, just ready and waiting to jump out and shout Boo!!!

To such an extent you are now prejudging every guest, and at risk of seriously misjudging their every intent and behaviour ????

So while the 'public transport' metaphor is still fresh in the bus lanes of folks minds, here's another one.....

ok, METAPHOR ALERT !!!:
so you caught a masked pervert staring in through your bathroom window.
but he ran away before the police arrived.
You had a good idea of who the disguised intruder might be.
At the time you were understandably shocked and frightened.
But over time the fear has festered, and now you, your family and close friends are on constant vigil.
Permanently patrolling the perimeters of your property 24/7 with loaded shotguns, in case he returns.
All so unsettled and insecure you have itchy trigger fingers,
taking pot shots without warning at any misfortunate folk you don't immediately recognise who may pass by or approach
your fortress like property.....
METAPHOR ALERT OVER - Please resume normal functios....

Now, I'm certainly not mocking the real distress of your 'trolls' victims;
- you all have my and any sensible mudcatters sympathy -
but I do think this is all resulting in a pervasive unhealthy atmosphere & culture of anxious suspicion and accusations
here at mudcat...

Stay happy and alert, - just keep it in perspective - that's all..

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 04:18 AM

I thought you had gone, Greg F. Or was that the troll again? Either way, for good of bad, good to see you back :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Musket
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:10 AM

What's all this about public transport?

If anyone would care to post their experiences of cohorting with the proletariat I'd be much obliged. I'm fascinated by the subject.

Yours

Major Misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:38 AM

"I'm far too handsome, charming, and popular to be a hermit, Goofy."

When I posted, 'Great!' I wasn't referring to you, but Steve.

"I'm greatly in demand by vast numbers of intelligent, tasteful people. And I enjoy spending time with people of taste and intelligence."

Don't flatter yourself! Most intelligent people don't.....but you did leave out narcissistic.

"In fact, my wife and I are hosting a group of very talented writers on Sunday, so I'm afraid I'll have to neglect your education and guidance during Sunday...."

SEE ABOVE!

GfS

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:15 AM

Credit me with some smarts. There are people whose posts I just flat don't read, and others I skip lightly through. With some folks, if you've already read a number of their posts, a glance at an opening line and a few key words tells you all you need to know about what they have to say.

And rank insults and obscenity simply negate anything of value that the poster might actually have to say, so quick scan, if at all, and move on to something more civilized and intelligent.

There is the old adage, "Consider the source."

Don't let the Philistines drive you away. That's what some of them want.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 12:30 AM

Enjoy, Don. But I am with Steve on this. Why come back here on Monday if you had rather not? No compulsion to do so --

(except, of course that you would miss this gem of wisdom of mine)

& neither has anyone else if they are getting a hard time here.

There are some people whose posts I don't even read because I know them from experience to be potentially offensive to me in some way, but just scroll straight thru when I read their names at the top.   Doesn't do me any harm.

~M~

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 12:29 AM

Steve, clearly you don't know the history of the troll at mudcat so you don't know what we're trying to tell you and consequently you don't know what you're talking about. Stop dismissing others' statements and being an expert on everything and just accept our word for it. Participating in Mudcat shouldn't result in being stalked for years by the cretin still who pops in on occasion. May even be reading this post as soon as I hit "send."

SRS

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 11:45 PM

I'm far too handsome, charming, and popular to be a hermit, Goofy. I'm greatly in demand by vast numbers of intelligent, tasteful people. And I enjoy spending time with people of taste and intelligence.

In fact, my wife and I are hosting a group of very talented writers on Sunday, so I'm afraid I'll have to neglect your education and guidance during Sunday, so try not to do anything too--well--goofy.

À bientot,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 10:56 PM

Don Firth: "Operating like that, sooner or later, you wind up being a hermit."

Great!!

GfS

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 07:42 PM

You have to use public transport because your wellbeing depends on your getting from A to B. Internet forums and suchlike are entirely optional. If you're having an unhappy experience online, and you carry on torturing yourself by revisiting the places that upset you, you're barking mad. I can't avoid buses and trains because I need to get to the shops 50 miles away or visit my mum. But I can avoid internet locations that upset me. Or ones that I can see might upset me down the line. It's as simple as not clicking. Believe me, I've done it and it works. The feeling of liberation is mighty. Ask yourself: are you here because you enjoy it, and for no other reason? If the answer is no, well, you're a bit mad, aren't you?

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 07:05 PM

Steve, that's like saying not to ride public transportation because some guy may sit down beside you and fart a lot.

Operating like that, sooner or later, you wind up being a hermit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 06:54 PM

You get stalked by internet trolls because you're on the bloody internet. If you're not on the internet you do not get stalked by internet trolls. There is no law that says you have to stay on the internet just so that you can upset yourself by allowing yourself to be stalked because you're on the internet. I'm 63, I've been on the internet for ten years, and, in my life before the internet, I was a very happy chappie, just like I am now. Avoid the things that upset you. You won't die if you stay off the internet, or, at least, the bits of it that are getting to you. In other words, stay rational. And keep cool.

Subject: RE: This is really poor
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 06:22 PM

Gwan back to sleep, Goofus.