Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrockers
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:53 AM

.... do posh or chav folk singers pull the best class of groupies... ???

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:45 AM

I suppose an anagram of that could be

"O ··· Foul - Filthy - Gross"

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:38 AM

No good -- my  doesn't read those, whatever they are. All I can see is a row of 7 rectangles that say, in teensyweensy itsybitsy letters, 01F/44F inside.

A grievous disappointment to me, but I dessay I shall get over it in course of time.

So just Popalong, my Ickle Duckli-Boodling...

☺〠☺~M~☺〠☺

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:35 AM

Yes, Andrea(s) Scholl was on Wireless Three the other day doing his folk song stuff. It was dreary. I came away depressed, though that's happened to me with many a proper folk singer too, even when they were being cheery. I agree more with Al than with Jack about Kathleen Ferrier. What I can't be doing with meself is those Benjamin Britten piano accompaniments. I concede that you can hardly level that one at Blow The Wind Southerly, of course. I suppose she had a go (they were all live BBC recordings if I remember rightly), and that you only need listen if you want to. Which I don't really, not much. And never to Andrea(s).

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:35 AM

If I could have found a flower to rhyme with wit, I would have done.

But we recent posh can't spell krisanthemum.

👻👻👻

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:27 AM

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 09:18 AM

Pop Pop Pop goes the Popgun
Drip Drop Drip goes its spit
Sniff sniff sniff at its fragrance -
Unmistakable odour of


                   Chrysanthemums

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 08:03 AM

Andreas Scholl singing Vaughan Wlliams folk songs anyone?

Of course I mean't you Mr genetically modified Lion. It's always about you, if you hadn't noticed. Congratulations.

He was poor but as a critic
In the shadow of Irwin's wit
Which is why he ain't world famous
Isn't life a bowl of shit?

😎

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 05:58 AM

its a bit like blaming Bix Beiderbecke for not playing funk, Blind Lemon Jefferson for not plugging in a strat....

Kathleen Ferrier had her place in history, as we all do, and she acquitted herself with distinction. Well done kid! You did what you could with where you found yourself.

middle class people singing folksongs in an authentic folk voice is a relatively recent thing. and it has its fans, and more than a few detractors.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 05:30 AM

I'm relieved to learn that my feeling about this is not based on a prejudice against the upper class. Rather, it's just my usual dislike of any singing that tries to sound like someone else.

That's why I can't stand Kathleen Ferrier's folksong recordings. She wasn't from the ruling class and, from the biographical stuff I've read, seems to have been a thoroughly nice person, but her vocal training left her permanently disabled with an RP accent and style of vocal delivery that she could never shake off. Something like "Blow the Wind Southerly" is a freak show.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 05:24 AM

Which Mike did you mean above at 0440, Popgun -- me or michaelr? True I am a bit crusty, like fine old port, dontchano! If me, however, how am I any sort of a problem? Why, I am the most unproblematic wysywig entity in the whole of recorded history...

And I can sing folksongs, according to the general consensus when I put my youtube channel up -- with just one trivial exception, who used the occasion to denounce me as "a concertina player who can't sing" coz I had called him a rude yobbo on another thread.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 05:01 AM

He was poor, he was a folkie,
Lots of songs that he did know,
But no social class ambition,
Hamstrung by playing a old banjo.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Bert
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 04:51 AM

Is there a 1954 definition of Posh?

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,confused
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 04:48 AM

The song not the singer - says it exactly.And I should know cos I am dead posh( to use the vulgate for you plebs!).
In folk clubs in England it's very trendy to slate the US but one wonderful feature of the place is its disregard for class and surely folk music needs a similar attitude.I sometimes feel ashamed of the polarity I witness in folk clubs.As John Lennon (was he posh?he was certainly richer than most folks!) used to say    Give peace a chance!

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 04:40 AM

Now there's a thing..

Now I am all posh, I can define folk and Jim Carroll will have to doff his cap and accept the wisdom of his betters. Mind you, Mike is still a problem, what with him being a bit posh in a crusty sort of way himself...

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 04:23 AM

methinks this is terning itno a definitian of Posh. And when did we lay darwn the defineitive of the geanre "Folk"?

Maybe Posh people can spell proper - like.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 25 Nov 14 - 01:14 AM

Married into an appropriate family?

Rather intriguing...

She was poor and he was humble
They knew how to have a laugh
So the neighbours did accept them
But clock the state of the marital bath.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 08:48 PM

A very interesting question Lady Diamond. I think that the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band posed it quite well in their song "Can Blue Men Sing the Whites". Check it out.

Bob Hitchcock.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 07:22 PM

I don't imagine anything about Martin, I know him (W2S), he knows me (BNS). His ancestry were Thames watermen, making the family he married into quite appropriate.
There are lessons to be learned about going overboard in the French and Russian Revolutions in class hatred. Not only did the revolutionaries waste their time on harmless prats while allowing the really dangerous politicians free rein, what it actually did was allow even more pompous middle-class prats to imagine they were better men.
I talked a while back about Tony Benn's five questions to someone with power. The thing to remember is that at the top, the only way is down, and they say rags to rags in three generations: many of the toffs are prats who'll not survive because they're not real. Your proper target should be those who abuse power, and you'll find as many of working class origins in that list as you will middle and upper class. A real person won't fall into that trap.
And it's real people we are for, true to themselves, and class hasn't got anything to do with it. It's abuse of class which has, and the two are as different as chalk and cheese. Yes, there is more responsibility to be demanded of an upper-class abuser, but don't let the pipsqeaks off the hook either!

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 06:57 PM

Rumpo - as in rumpy pumpy - as in The Rumpo Kid

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Betsy
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 05:58 PM

I imagine Cecil Sharp (all his recording equipment) must have been quite posh as was the well-educated Vaughan Williams .
Martin Carthy and countless other folk performers accents probably sound quite posh when compared to mine
The point is - it takes time and effort to learn and sing a song and if a posh person does so, fair play, I won't knock'em if they do a bit of chanting, but if they try to take the piss out of "our" songs and tradition by childish parody or trying to take the piss in their posh manner I tend to get a bit shirty.
Mind you Rambling Sid Rumbold/Rumpole (spelling?)used to make me laugh as did a couple of British comedy actors of that era

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 05:56 PM

Lady Diamond (What a fake! The ballad, not the OP)
Most of the Child Ballads were written for or by the nobs, the plebs like me only borrowed 'em for a while. If these have too many verses for you a big slice of what we call folk song started life in the theatres and pleasure gardens of London. You could easily repatriate them. They're easy to spot as they have Phoebes and Corydons and Colins in them and half the song is about milkmaids and ploughboys loving their crap lives.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 04:28 PM

Joseph Scott: Thank you for that very plausible explanation of how Pete Seeger acquired the vocal style that I dislike. The similarity between Lunsford's singing and Seeger's is clear now that you've pointed out the connection, and I dislike the one as much as the other.

I'm relieved to learn that my feeling about this is not based on a prejudice against the upper class. Rather, it's just my usual dislike of any singing that tries to sound like someone else. Do you perchance know whom Bob Dylan is imitating? You can't swing a cat without hitting someone who's obviously trying to sound like Dylan, but I could never figure out where he himself got that odious style.

Lady Diamond: False alarm. Even the few of us who don't revere Pete Seeger's singing won't harbor the prejudice that I spoke of earlier. I'm sure the kitchen boy will love your singing if you use your own voice.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 02:24 PM

Did someone mention dog turds?

She was poor but she was canine,
Squatted on the pavement cold
Hers was fresh and it was reekin'
The others furry, dull and old.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 01:29 PM

Any of them posh ****s born into an affluent life of privilege and self-centred sense of entitlement..

.. will just as likely sing whatever the f@ck they want to !!!


... and not give 2 pedigree dog turds if any of us common scumbags try to tell 'em not to.... ???

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 01:00 PM

It's not whether they can sing or not, it's whether they can keep the time. Most of 'em are the fruit of failed rhythmn method on the part of a certain Scottish knob back in the 1660s anyway.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,John Lennon
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 12:50 PM

For our last number I'd like to ask your help. The people in the cheaper seats clap your hands. And the rest of you, if you'd just rattle your jewellery. We'd like to sing a song called ...

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 11:59 AM

I can spot a bum reference from ten yards.

The thought of someone being too posh to be able to sing a particular genre is some bizarre reverse Eliza Doolittle corner.

Hence I was delighted when the pee & poo started. I am on safe ground there.

See her on the bridge at midnight
Arse just hanging over the rail
Whilst the effect of too many oysters
Makes her face look rather pale

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 11:49 AM

"Under cover of anonymity, I will admit that I've never liked Pete Seeger's singing...." Pete was emulating (from about age 16 on) the placid-sounding Bascom Lamar Lunsford and H. N. (Hilary Nathan) Dickens, both Southerners born in the 1880s, who were a schoolteacher and a truck driver respectively (among other things). If you listen to the way Lunsford tells a little story just before doing a song, even that timing and enunciating of the storytelling Pete was emulating. So Pete's approach _was_ "authentic." In contrast (imo) to e.g. Josh White's and Joan Baez's.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 11:38 AM

Here comes the pee and pooh brigade. Ignore them; they find their pathetic way into every good thread. Don't let them ruin things.
================
Lady Diamond, there is a prejudice against amateur singing in today's world. We might be told, "You're voice is too weak, too nasal, too soft, too husky..." Or in your case, "You have the wrong accent."

That's all brainless. There are many kinds of folk song. If you keep your eyes open, you will find some you are good at.

One hint: my voice teacher told me that it's good vowels that make a song clear to the listener. Let your 'o' be an 'o' and your 'i' be an 'i'.

As for r's, consult your conscience.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 08:32 AM

See him in his bath at midnight,
Returned homeward from the hunt
But there's water on the bathmat,
He's just got out for a dump.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Banacek61
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 08:25 AM

@richA Even the most base people get out of the bath to crap; it's getting out to pee that is the telling habit.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Banacek61
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 08:03 AM

@LadyDiamond. What a very interesting thread you've started. I am old and have been around; the best quote I have on this subject is from Mr Tom McConville, famous fiddle player who on occasiion used to play at my side and make me sound really good, on discussing the meanness of some musicians with their knowledge and skills, replied "Why naw man! Music's fer sharin'" (He's a bit Geordie). So, if I haven't made myself clear, you sing love and let the audience tell you if they don't like it. If that's the case, there's always the bath or bicycle rides. I think Sandy Denny's voice was a bit 'posh'. Ah who knows where the time goes?

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 07:04 AM

She was rich but she was randy,
Victim of watching trash TV
She thought oiks were always shaggin'
How convenient for posh old me.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 06:24 AM

nice song Ron!

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 06:18 AM

Don't worry Ron. I'd never sing it with a p.a. Perish the thought some poor fucker heard me sing it..

😵

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Ron Shuttleworth
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 06:08 AM

AINT IT ALL A BLOODY SHAME. [A01]
Air: She Was Poor But She Was Honest


[First and last verse OR Chorus]
It's the sime the Country over.                 
It's the poor wot rate* the sorngs,        
But it's the middle-class wot sings 'em,                 
Aint there somefink 'ere wot's wrorng.
        [*This must be pronounced rate as 'rite' sounds like 'write'.

They write sorngs abaht the trials,                  
Of the strugglin' workin' bloke,        
But the wri'er and the singer,                 
Never did an 'ornest stroke.

'Ear 'im sing of social evils,                 
Once a week wiv righteous rige,        
Then free of guilt, support the system,                 
Wot denies a decent wige.

In the li'le coun'ry village,                 
Where the effnic singers dwell,        
First they banks the cash we piys 'em,                 
Then they laughs like bloody 'ell.

Singin' orn the bridge at midnight,                 
Protest ballads to the moon,        
Full of booze and indignation,                 
'e's forgort the bloody tune.

And 'e fought that 'e were fireproof,                 
Till 'is jorb went dahn the drine,        
And 'e jined the poorer classes,                 
And 'e never sang agine.

(optional)                 [not used]        
If you do nort like my ditty,                 
You were nort intended to,        
Look nort wiv anger, but wiv pity.                 
For I'm much the sime as you.


© 1994. Ron K Shuttleworth. All rights reserved.
If attributed, any of my songs may be performed, LIVE and without p.a. by anyone,

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 03:30 AM

THANK YOU - Gurney - 21 Nov 14 - 03:25 PM - for getting my week off to a good start - must have laughed out loud for a good five minutes at that - so good in fact I have it filed away for future use - brilliant!!!

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Bert
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 02:49 AM

Now, now GUEST, you mustn't ever criticize our very own Mr. Nostrils. He has done a lot for folk music. And I know that he has on occasion made a fool of himself, but haven't we all.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Brian Grayson
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 12:27 AM

Re: Far From the Madding Crowd (1967)

What's the problem? 'Bushes and Briars' was dubbed by Isla Cameron, and it was not sung Posh - just well-articulated. Dave Swarbrick and Trevor Lucas also played/sang in the film. I do believe their credentials as non-Posh are impeccable too. So there!

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 11:51 PM

Under cover of anonymity, I will admit that I've never liked Pete Seeger's singing; and after reading ChanteyLass' post about his private school education, I realized that what I dislike about his singing (which is the pronunciation, or perhaps enunciation) may be related to this "posh" thing you're all talking about. (To me, posh means an expensively decorated room.) I didn't think my dislike of Seeger's singing was based on a prejudice against his social class, but such it may be. I dislike most opera singing also, and that tends to use the same broomstick-up-the-keester style of enunciation. So, Lady Diamond, there is the possibility that a few members of the lower orders will hold it against you, but obviously we're a very small minority, so it shouldn't deter you.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Betsy
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 07:42 PM

Sing it like it is, and stop all this petty dissection. If You're posh, but like Folk (music and its people ) What the Fuck ?????

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 06:13 PM

the pc brigade have come to pretty much the same conclusion as Reith with regards to George Formby.

you see, posh folk stick together. if only we would learn the same lesson. you got people on this thread dissing Ewan - which ain't right. and as for Ewan's supporters - they think they have defined folk music, and know the megs arse of everything.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 03:12 PM

Hey DTM: Can a girl named Rhiannon sing the "Blues"?

All this Posh Bosh is Nikulturni. The singing of Folk Songs transcends "Class Status".

"Didn't they release a bit of film recently of Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret doing a bit of improvised folk dancing?"

Visitors to Buckingham palace in the 30s and 40s remarked upon all the singing of popular and folk songs by the royal family. "When I'm Cleaning Windows", A George Formby song was banned by the BBC. The corporation's director John Reith stated that "if the public wants to listen to Formby singing his disgusting little ditty, they'll have to be content to hear it in the cinemas, not over the nation's airwaves". Queen Mary was not amused. The BBC relented and started to broadcast the song.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 12:57 PM

Posh as posh can be. Quite.

Save yourselves a bit of pain by going forward to 27 seconds.*

* This has been a public service announcement to the service announcement public from a service announcement public announcer, at your service of course.

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 12:24 PM

..if you can imagine a universe where Hugh Laurie is a critically acclaimed blues singer...

then anything is possible.....?????

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 12:18 PM

"Our"?

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 11:40 AM

Richmond and Kew ?
Have posh people started using rhyming slang now as well as singing our songs ?

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Musket
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 11:40 AM

I reckon they charge that in the Costa in the Tesco in Scunthorpe.

Obviously, sunny Scunny is far more posh than Darrnn sarrfff... When your Tesco has a Costa, you are obviously moving up market.

Likewise, when you listen to Ed Sheeran and Seth Lakeman rather than some boring twat using his guitar to tell us his Utopian workers' paradise dreams, you are already up market, what?

Subject: RE: Can Posh People Sing Folk Songs?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 10:19 AM

Dulwich Village of course - and parts of East Dulwich I fear, Northcross Road where we see our dentist for instance where cafes charge £2.20 for an espresso !