BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens

Subject: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,Bonnie
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 07:39 PM

I am in California. There is a outside cat that had some kittens today. The cat is inside this little scratching cube thing and I don't know how many kittens are in there but I can see at least one tiny furry ball which is one kitten.
I cannot bring the cat inside the house as I already have an indoor cat and 2 small dogs. So I don't know what to do. How long does the mother cat usually feed their kittens? I have a bowl of water and food out there but where we live they don't recommend leaving food outside at night so I bring the food in but leave the water bowl out there. I am just worried about the kittens because they will be exposed to the elements (very hot weather here right now)

Also there is a Tom cat around here too (doesn't belong to anyone and just always around here) So I am afraid that tom cat will get to the female cat again. I cannot get near the Tom cat to take to a shelter or somewhere because it is not friendly and won't even let you get close to pet it.
I am just worried about the female cat and her baby or babies.
They were born today, August 18, 2015 (outside) near my front door of the house.
I don't know anyone nearby to help me so I just don't know what to do. I am just afraid for the kittens to be outside exposed to the heat of the day and just outside dangers.
How long does kittens have to be fed by their mother before they can eat kitten food?

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: maeve
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 08:20 PM

Kittens need to be with their mother for at least 6 weeks. Please see if there is a non-kill shelter nearby. An animal control person may be able to trap both Tom (who will likely kill the kittens) and the little family, separately. You might also consider getting an appliance box into which you can slide the container with the mama cat and kittens... just for general protection, though that might not be permitted where you are.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 08:49 PM

Good advice from Maeve. With any luck the shelter will neuter all of them too. Including the tomcat. You don't say where or near where you are in California, and it's a big place.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,Bonnie
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 11:34 PM

To Guest #

I am in Southern, California, not far from the Inland Empire.

To Mauve, you mentioned an appliance box. Exactly what type of appliance box? Where do you get an appliance box (without having to buy an appliance?) I don't have any appliance boxes at home.

Why does the Tomcat kill the kittens? Do they always do that?
Is there any way to prevent a tomcat from doing that?

I can't get close to the tomcat to even pet it.
When I feed the mommy cat, the tomcat comes by to eat some of the food sometimes but it won't let you get near it. What I mean is, if you try to go near it - it runs away quickly. I don't have any kind of trap or anything so don't know how I would get it.

If I call the animal shelter, the tomcat would have to be around when they get here and that cat is not always around so the people from the shelter wouldn't be able to catch it unless the cat happens to be nearby when they get here. I just don't know what do and scared the tomcat will kill the baby kitties.

Also when you call the shelter, they don' always come right out.
Found this out some years ago when I called them about a dead dog in the street and they didn't come by for several days.
Maybe understaffed - I don't know or different priorities they are dealing with.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,#
Date: 18 Aug 15 - 11:55 PM

Bonnie, try a Google of

no kill animal shelters in _____________ <---insert your town here

Then a phone call to explain the situation and get some advice from them.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: maeve
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 06:54 AM

Bonnie, any store that sells kitchen ranges or refrigerators, etc. would be a place to ask about boxes.

Any shelter or animal control person would know the animals aren't always around and would be most likely to use Havahart-type traps which will work anytime of the day or night. You could buy. borrow, or rent such live-traps and deliver the critters to the shelter along with a cash donation for taking the cats in. A vet could even help with a sedative to put into cat food.

Any way you look at it you need some help from experts there (good suggestion from Guest #) more than from us.

Best of luck to you.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 01:55 PM

A live trap would be a bad idea in this situation - if you caught the mother the kittens would starve to death in a day.

It's unusual for tomcats to hurt kittens.

The shelter will have dealt with this sort of thing many times before.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: maeve
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 02:38 PM

The kittens and mother are in a cat scratching post/condo so I can't see it would be at all difficult to get the family at once and together.

Not all Toms will react to kittens in the same way. Some are protective, some are not. If there is no established relationship between them there is the possibility of danger from a "stranger" cat.

We're agreed that a good shelter is called for. :)

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 15 - 03:06 PM

Sorry to let reality intrude on the warm fuzzies, but here's the real deal on "outside cats":

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/PDF/FeralCatPredation.pdf

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/PDF/FeralCatPredation.pdf

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/feral-cats-kill-billions-of-small-critters-each-year-7814590/?no-ist

http://blog.nwf.org/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-cats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/

http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&id=610:new-research-suggests-outdoor-cats-kill-more-wildlife-than-thought&catid=34:ONB+Articles&Itemid=54

http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&id=610:new-research-suggests-outdoor-cats-kill-more-wildlife-than-thought&catid=34:ONB+Articles&Itemid=54

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 05:56 AM

My late mother was part of a network in LA specializing in trapping, neutering, and releasing cats which are rampantly abandoned in the area (see wikipedia). The theory is that releasing them after neutering maintains a more stable feline population. Hopefully a local referral to these folks to help can be gotten thru the no-kill peeps mentioned above. Good luck!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 09:56 AM

releasing them after neutering maintains a more stable feline population

That's not all it does. It perpetuates a harmful, invasive species that devastates wildlife. Please see 19 Aug 15 - 03:06 PM

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Megan L
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 12:05 PM

Well Greg following your logic we should probably get rid of all humans since I don't know of another species that is so invasive or destructive. For some people in our tragic first world countries even a stray moggie that you can put a little treat out for when you can afford it may be the only company some people have in this sad world. So get of your soapbox for a little while and visit someone who would welcome some company.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 12:58 PM

Don't come on like an idiot, Meagan. Did you bother to read any of the articles indicated? And there are plenty more studies where those came from.

For you facts = soapbox?

Apparently you prefer to dwell in a fact-free bubble.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 01:03 PM

There is no good answer. Greg is right that feral cats cause great harm to bird populations. However, when a mother cat and the cute kittens which she treasures are right in a person's backyard, it's almost impossible not to love them.

What to do, what to do...
==========
But I can tell you one thing - people who have pet cats should KEEP THEM IN THE HOUSE.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 01:23 PM

Where is "The Cat House on the Kings" in relation to you? From various YouTube vids it seems to be a cat paradise.

Some toms will kill kittens if they are from another tom.

Any chance of putting a roomy temporary wire-netting enclosure around the scratching post condo- food and water bowls and litter tray inside it?

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 02:28 PM

Hi, Leenia - not just birds, but squirrels, rabbits, small mammals of all kinds, and reptiles and apmhibians.

What to do?

First, admit that the problem exists.

Second, realize that the life of one animal is not worth the lives of hundreds of other animals and act accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 02:53 PM

I've read estimates that go from 50-70 million feral cats in the US. Cull the herd.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 03:33 PM

That's the result of the tyranny and of the animal relativists, Bruce, among which the Humane Society is a shining example.

Some annointed animals - the warm fuzzy moggies, "man's best friend" - can't be killed under any circumatances, even when they're wreaking environmental havoc and/or injuring humans, etc.

Then there is a whole pantheon of "less desirable" animals, according to the relativists, that can be annihilated any time any place any where without a backward glance.

Talk about hypocricy.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 03:51 AM

That's not all it does. It perpetuates a harmful, invasive species that devastates wildlife.

I think you may be missing the most harmful, invasive species, who will not take kindly to being neutred. And while they roam the neighbourhood, stray cats will always be with us.

That's us folks!

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 08:12 AM

The impact of feral cats in the US has probably been overestimated (a lot). Re ent researxh has shown that most cats outside urban areas stay very close to human habitation - if they venture anywhere else they're coyote food. So you can't extrapolate their population density from urban statistics. Most wild areas have no fwral cats and hence no predation of birds.

Human hunters are far more destructive to American wildlife. The damage American gun owners inflict on other species is much more important than what they do to their own.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 10:02 AM

No argument, Red, but that's beside the point.

Jack, DO read up on recent studies. Been done on rural as well as urban areas. Your contention that stray cats are only or largely a problem for urban areas is misinformed.

And your business about hunters being "far more destructive" of wildlife is both untrue on its face and irrelevant even if it were true.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 10:54 AM

Greg I don't know about others but I am tired of your negative bile poured out on every thread you touch. People here were trying to be helpful to the original poster.

To guest bonnie Hope you got things sorted out.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 12:17 PM

Hey, Megan - if you choose to style factual information as "negative bile", then you go, girl! Knock yourself out. Enjoy living in Fantasyland.

"Feral" i.e., stray cats are a significant problem that needs to be addressed in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 05:55 PM

Greg, I'm not the poster child for cat rescue and my mom was nobody's fool. She knew what she was doing. Her ashes are in the sea off LA if you want to go pick a fight with her, but this thread is not the place for it and I won't play. I will however give you some facts you could not have known.

I personally euthanized a barn full of abandoned cats with my own hands because they had been abandoned there, bred, and got incurably ill. This was at a demonstration farm I managed. My mind knew this was right. It hurt my heart to do it-- even the last most-baleful fighting tom I had to catch who would cheerfully have euthanized me if he'd had opposable thumbs.

At our current home on a working farm property, cats are also regularly dumped. I have taken many new mothers and their litters to the local shelter that, at the time, gave out free spays for whole litters surrendered. These mama cats became not wildlife-killing machines, but employees trusted to defend the house against the seasonal invasion of rodents whose runs, chewed thru the plaster, crisscross behind 100 years' worth of wallpaper.

The current employee came, starving, to our back porch with a diseased and deformed youngster, who soon disappeared (probably coyotes tbtg. I used food to lure her when she next appeared, heavily preggers; I kept her indoors as she got to her birth time, tended the babies, found homes for all, got her spayed and vaccinated her, and we still have her as our chief employee. When intrusive birds have driven away the mourning doves that also live here in our porches bushes, she happily removed the invaders so the doves could come back.

But we shoot maurading feral tom's that regularly come to call-- also dumped or inbred deformed monstrosities. They are the feral offspring of tame kitties abandoned here by local gas frackers when they close work camps. They're lonely people far from home and I don't begrudge them a cat for their campers... I just wish they'd crate them before moving day instead of pulling up stakes while Kitty is out hunting in the wild woods here.

A cat is 'just' a critter in the food chain, and as such have a place in it. Some are also capable of being dear friends and mysteriously charming creatures. They all deserve a chance in that food chain.

I'm surprised you went off on me. As you can now see, I'm a poor target for your rant. I bet the other folks posting are, too. I've enjoyed the cessation of hostilities with you in justice-oriented threads... but nobody picks on MY dead mama.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: My Outside Cat had Kittens
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 06:37 PM

That's not all it does. It perpetuates a harmful, invasive species that devastates wildlife. Please see 19 Aug 15 - 03:06 PM

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

Now, Susan, if that's "going off on you", and you interpret that as a personal attack, you really should seek professional help. Its also not posible to pick a fight with a corpse - escuse me - ashes.

When intrusive birds have driven away the mourning doves that also live here in our porches bushes, she happily removed the invaders so the doves could come back.

Intrusive Birds? Jesus wept. This is meant as a joke, right? I suppose it'll also be OK with you when she "happily removes" the doves in turn?

while Kitty is out hunting in the wild woods here.

"Out hunting"? Don't the frackers feed their cats? They're not "hunting" to eat, they're just killing because that's what they're 'programmed' to do.

And no, stray cats are not "just another critter in the food chain" and certainly do not "deserve" a place there. They don't BELONG there, they are a non-native invasive species and do real damage. Did you read any of the articles I referred to, or did you just decide to "go off" on me?