BS: Tory party conference

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 12:26 PM

The false charges were that, as I am a Scottish Nationalist and a Socialist, that makes me a Nazi.

Yes, they are false charges and they were not made.

Then the poster denied that he had implied such a thing.

Yes, it was denied because it just ain't true. As everyone can see.

For someone who is so keen on making sure false accusations are not used, he sure does make a lot of them.

but this creep trying to use my wife's ill health as a tool to further insult me personally

For someone who is so keen on not using personal abuse, he sure uses a lot.

Enough is enough and the gloves are now off. You are a petty minded twisted little man who cannot understand that people are people. No matter what their orientation, country of origin, religion or politics, they are still human beings. Keith may ask again for me to go easy on you but you have shown time and time again that you have no concept of compassion, reason or empathy. For this reason you shall not be shown any.

Now, time for a pint I think. Or for another thread to be totally fucked by your vindictiveness.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 12:11 PM

" I was of course referring to the flood of economic migrants from Eastern Europe, who were actively encouraged to come here by Blair and Brown "to make Britain more competitive in the global economy"."
Seems a bit racist to single out one particular group of migrants - why am I not surprised?
Perhaps wqe should only encourage those from white, Anglo Saxon countries - waddya think?
I have no time for Blair, but I'm certainly not going to condemn him for an immigration policy that became unpopular among politicians.
THIS WAS BLAIR'S POLICY
Still haven't replied on your opinion of MR POWELL - don't need to really
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 12:01 PM

When it cmes to party titles you'd find it hard to beat the Liberal Democrat Party of Russia, which is a far right nationalist party with a policy of a renewed expansion of the Russian Empire, ideally to include the whole of Eurasia.

Better watch what that Tim Farron gets up to...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 11:41 AM

I think the person who posted this is a troll :0)


Sorry, ake. I see you have already done that.

A troll makes personal attacks, like adding "hate" to the usernames of other members, or makes clearly false charges then refuses to admit them.

I have already advised you that for compassionate reasons I have stopped referring to you as the village idiot, even if I believe you deserve it at times. Yet you still make personal attacks on me. Fine, all can see what is going on. I have never made any false charges. What else have you got?

The false charges were that, as I am a Scottish Nationalist and a Socialist, that makes me a Nazi.
Then the poster denied that he had implied such a thing.

Look at the passage about not referring to me as the village idiot for "compassionate reasons", even if I deserve to be called the village idiot.

Could anyone with half a brain take the poster seriously?

Insults do not usually affect me, but this creep trying to use my wife's ill health as a tool to further insult me personally, makes me want to puke.

I think Al has got him weighed up pretty well.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 11:14 AM

Regarding my remarks on unregulated immigration, I was of course referring to the flood of economic migrants from Eastern Europe, who were actively encouraged to come here by Blair and Brown "to make Britain more competitive in the global economy".

All political Parties including the SNP supported that idiocy, the only exception being Mr Farage and UKIP .
All except the SNP have reversed their views and now admit that we must have control of our borders and some control on who and how many come here.
The SNP will regret sticking to the policy of using cheap foreign labour rather than training the hundreds of thousands of young people who at present have no viable future, and live in drug addled sinks all over the Central Belt.
Independence should be the door to a new future and a new mindset, not a platform for prancing career politicians to perform on.

We have all seen that show...."The New Labour Review".

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 10:13 AM

"what you have to understand Jim is that the tories are slimey fuckers"
With respect Al - I grew up knowing that - grandmother - suck eggs and all that.
There is no reason to blame immigrants or immigration for that fact.
One of their slimiest of traits is to set one group of workers at the throats of others - while we're kicking the shit out of each other, it's business as usual with them and theirs.
By and large, it really doesn't matter that people coming to Britain not knowing the language, there is little evidence of that affecting the magnificent work done by doctors and nurses from abroad - the National Health service would be in a far worse state than it is without the input of staff from abroad.
How many of our emigrants leaving Britain speak Japanese or German or French.....?
Asian Kids are among the top achievers in Britain - they are said to work the hardest and get the highest marks.
In my experience, emigration has enriched our country and done much to make it a far more tolerant place than it was when I was growing up - if it wasn't for the Jurassic parkers among us, that can continue to be the case.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 09:40 AM

Very good points here. Money isn't restricted by borders, so why are people?

Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 08:10 AM

yesterday my wife haad a basal cell carcinoma removed from her face. One of the nurses in the operating theatre could not understand or speak English.

Now entrance to the medical profession is quite difficult for English people. Nursing is an all degree profession these days. Every year hundreds of peoplw with excellent A level results - some with science degrees are refused the right to train as a doctor for various spurious reasons.

what you have to understand Jim is that the tories are slimey fuckers. they are clobbering the working classes from both ends. denying them upward mobility and flooding the lowlier ends of the labour market.

It is a very conscious policy. You must have heard that bastard the other day who wants Chinese standards of employment to be the thing in England.

really you shouldn't be surprised. its the summation of the Thatcherite policies. The services led economic recovery. First they did away with all the heavy industries and all the skills and union strength that went with it. Now its time to take the last vestiges of self respect.

Chairman Dave has aceded to a further how many more thousand immigrants. Out of human decency...yeh sure!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 08:09 AM

Al - you say a nationalist and socialist is a national socialist - a nazi.

Who did? My exact phrase was -

"To those claiming to be socialists while also being nationalists. Can I remind you National Socialism has been tried before."

Which as I have already explained is reminding people that national socialism does have a negative connotation. Did someone else say what you suggested?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 08:09 AM

Continual misrepresentation is hardly going to advance the conversation either, Kevin.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 08:07 AM

Twist, twist, twist. Pathetic. You got it wrong and you won't admit it. It's there for everyone to see, just like your Wheatcroft fiasco. Why am I not surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 08:05 AM

If people posting here could down and stop throwing playground insults at each other, even when they might be "deserved", this discussion has a better chance of being allowed to proceed rather than being prematurely shut down.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 08:02 AM

Akenaton made a comment about parties reversing their views on UNREGULATED immigration.

The Blair/Brown policy is often described as "unregulated immigration" even though obviously some regulation was in place.

They were responsible for levels becoming very high.
They then reversed their view, saying they had allowed levels to get too high.
That is what Ake referred to.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 07:54 AM

Agreed. Some SNP members, whilst being strongly nationalist, are left-leaning and progressive. I tend to think that "internationalist" fits better with socialism, however. The interests of the people whose blood, sweat and tears make our nations wealthy don't stop at borders.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 07:36 AM

you say a nationalist and socialist is a national socialist - a nazi.

aren't we all nationalists to some extent. we love our country. some of us are socialists.

it doesn't make us nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 06:24 AM

Akenaton made a comment about parties reversing their views on UNREGULATED immigration. That is what I responded to and that is what you have tried to twist. You'd better tell akenaton that his views don't count as "debate" in your eyes, hadn't you? So dishonest, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 06:21 AM

"I don't think I've ever called you any of those things,"]
Nor me, to my recollection.
I may have taken you up on something you have said, but I don't recall anybody having referred to you as such Al
Getting unionised has nothing to do with immigrants, who appear to take a lot of stick for something that has nothing to do with them
The Tories, under Thatcher, systematically took away our right to a say in the workplace, the Labour right and all who have coalesced with the Tories in order to hold office have continued her policies.
Ruthless employers deliberately using immigrants to drive down wages dates back at least as far as the Irish Famine, when coalowners used Famine refugees to drive down miners' wages.
If all immigration ceased tomorrow nothing would change - the right don't believe we should have a voice in the workplace - never have and never will.
It really doesn't help immigrants or your own image to blame immigrants for something that fas nothing to do with them.      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 06:11 AM

Why Steve?
There is no debate about "unregulated immigration." Everyone is against that.
The issue is the level of immigration and if it is too high.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 06:08 AM

I am not aware that any party has "reversed its views".

"The Blair/Brown governments encouraged immigration."

That is an extremely dishonest response to my post. My comment referred clearly to UNREGULATED immigration, not "immigration". I would also point out that in the Blair/Brown era you refer to, we were desperate for those plumbers, electricians, dentists and all the rest and we welcomed them with open arms. Funny how so many people can get a little bit racist when times change, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 06:00 AM

I don't think I've ever called you any of those things, Al. Nor would I, on the strength of anything I've seen in your posts. I haven't got the time or energy to go jumping around policing what other people who you may think are in "my gang" are saying. I assure you that they are entirely separate entities from me!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:45 AM

Al, I never referred to you as a racist, a bigot or a nazi. I Said that some comments you made were racist and gave you the opportunity to address them. You did not do so but took the huff and decided to leave Mudcat in a fit of pique. Which no-one can take seriously as you are obviously still here. Your memory of the events are different to mine. You know you are right. I know I am right. Neither of us can provide any evidence but no-one ever brings it up apart from you. I can only suggest you leave it alone or, every time you bring it up, I shall repeat my memories of the event.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:34 AM

Sorry, ake. I see you have already done that.

A troll makes personal attacks, like adding "hate" to the usernames of other members, or makes clearly false charges then refuses to admit them.

I have already advised you that for compassionate reasons I have stopped referring to you as the village idiot, even if I believe you deserve it at times. Yet you still make personal attacks on me. Fine, all can see what is going on. I have never made any false charges. What else have you got?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:32 AM

anti immigration is just shop window dressing for the tories. it is just bluster to appease the blimps. it is never reflected in their policies. i'm not suggesting it should be.

but let's be honest. the actual open door policies they pursue is not borne of love for our fellow man. it is there out of simple supply and demand principles. if they can come up with a supply of desperately poor immigrants - there will never be a way to unionise and get decent wages and living conditions. it is a policy based on bloody wickedness.

when therre are parts of the country where houses change hands for pennies, and pissy little flats in london cost millions. the economy of the country is so skewed and out of kilter, adding more to the workforce in the south east is just making a bad situation worse.

as for the new immigrants being a gift from heaven. we already have such a gift - our own young people we teach them in slum schools with crappy old textbooks with teaching techniques reminiscent of a billy bunter novel. we teach them standards of behaviour with the Jeremy Kyle Show. we care for them in under resourced hospitals when they get ill. when they have fought in our armies and worked in our factories we give them shit pensions and in many cases let them die on the street. we have them live in filthy cities where class a drugs are available on every main street.

that is society the tories have given us and which they are trying to drive down the demands of the citizens by pricing them out of employment.

i'm bloody miserable Steve because you Dave and Jim think its okay to call me a racist, a bigot, a nazi.

Alan Whittle - lifelong Labour voter.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:23 AM

Allan - The statement I made was referring to 'those who etc.' was not directed at the SNP. Clumsy sentence it may be but I would have thought anyone would have spotted the obvious pun. It is not advisable to call yourself a national socialist in light of events in the mid 20th century.

Ake - Define 'troll' for us please so we can at least know what you are rambling on about.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 04:34 AM

I am not anti-immigration, but like most of the population and every political party, I think the current rate is too high.
While it benefits government, employers and the rich, the deleterious consequences fall upon the poor.

Steve<
I am not aware that any party has "reversed its views".

The Blair/Brown governments encouraged immigration.
Members of that government have since admitted that they allowed the rate to get too high, with harmful consequences.

There is a case for and against high levels of immigration.
To have an informed debate, both sides need to be put.
May put the case against.
Why do people object?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 03:44 AM

I've disagreed with Ake on various points before which he would concede. That isn't the point though. I wasn't talking about Ake here. What I replied to was the suggestion that people who see themselves as both nationalist and socialist should remember it has been tried before. That doesn't appear to be only pointed at one person but could be directed towards a significant chunk of the Scottish population. And there is no basis to it! There is no comparison or similarity between the SNP (or in fact the Scottish Greens) and the Nazis. It is perfectly possible as I said in the last post that it was not meant like that - but that is how it reads.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 03:40 AM

""of course you do, why wouldn't you","
Keith is anti- immigration and so are you
You have taken to defending Keith's excesses
What do you think I meant?
Lip service to "differences" do not get away from the fact that you share Keith's politics in general - you are both of the right.
You choose not to answer about Powell (answer enough in itself)
Can we get it clear about immigration.
Despite claims of the right, Britain is not an overcrowded country due to its immigration policy
Housing shortages and lack of accommodation is due to the predatory nature of the money-making property industry and it is centered round the south-east of England where the work is - where there are jobs, prices rocket - a legacy of the Thatcher regime.
This would be the case if there were no immigrants entering Britain.
Is is regularly said that immigrants drive down the wages of the indigenous population - they do not.
Ruthless employers prepared to replace British workers with those prepared to work for less do this.
The right in Britain either smashed or bought off the unions that, to some degree negotiated a living wage for its members and replaced it with the free-for-all that now exists.
Britain has a partly enforced minimum wage policy which falls far below a necessary living wage - S.F.A. to do with immigration - everything to do with greed.
Britain bears a responsibility to accept both economic immigrants and refugees.
Historically, we are responsible for the state the colonies were left in following the fall of the British Empire.
You asked once how long we have to go on paying for past crimes - as long as it takes to put it right.
We fill our shops with cheap goods produced under near slave, dangerous and often lethal conditions - it is little wonder immigrants seek a better life here.
The entire history of Britain is based on our own economic migration - only we sent armies of soldiers and priests to 'civilise' and plunder the places we went (within my lifetime certainly)
For all the problems Britain has, it remains a wealthy country due to our history of Empire - unfortunately that wealth is mainly centred in the hands of the few - not the fault of immigrants.
You sneer at the people in some of these third-world countries who try to better their lot - your "so called" Arab Spring protesters - what are they supposed to do - bend their neck and put up with their lot? - apparently so, you offer no alternative.
The West, in its dealing with despotic feudal dictators, takes a large share of responsibility in what is happening there.
Isis would never have got to where it has had the West done what it is now doing in Syria.
We have an actual, a moral and a humanitarian obligation to welcome these people (god knows here God features in the thinking of those who claim to be Christians in these matters - totally beyond me.
Anti-immigration was once the stamping-ground of the fringe nutters - the The National Front, B.N.P., the rabid right as typified by Powell, so extreme, he was considered to far off the wall for his own Party and only accepted by Northern Ireland Unionists.
Now it is main line policy - neo Fascists like Farrago and his Ukippers, official Tory Party policy - the Labour party (hopefully due for a change-of-=heart under a new leader.
Anti-immigration has become a vote-catcher based on the Xenophopbia drummed into us all by centuries of our being told that we were the finest on the planet.
Surveys have indicated that over 50% of the population holds and has openly expressed racist vies at one time or another - not a thing to be proud of.
Anti- immigration can only help to inflate that shameful statistic.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 03:36 AM

I don't agree with your definition of my views Richard, but any views I have, I state them clearly and stand by them. These are not the actions of a troll.

A troll makes personal attacks, like adding "hate" to the usernames of other members, or makes clearly false charges then refuses to admit them.
I cannot remember the last time Dave made any meaningful contribution to a thread which I have been involved in, his purpose seems primarily to derail constructive debate and cause interruptions, like discussing the merits of different types of beer in the middle of a serious political thread.

Trolls are easy to spot, Steve is not a troll, he is an ideologue. Richard is a hybrid.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 02:48 AM

It seems to me that Akenhateon with his racism and homophobia is the troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 02:46 AM

Dave......."BTW - To those claiming to be socialists while also being nationalists. Can I remind you National Socialism has been tried before. Can't remember where"

I took that to be directed towards left leaning SNP supporters as obviously did Ake. If it isn't then who on earth is it directed at? The sentence seems to suggest that if you are left leaning nationalist then this has already been tried by the nazis. Sorry but it is there in black and white! That is how it reads. If this is not what you meant then fair enough it is just a clumsy sentence which is not meant.

And Steve I often agree with your views and to tell you the truth your views would generally (obviously maybe the independence debate aside) sit in well with the Nats. If people are going to be likened to nazis then there has to be evidence to back this up - otherwise it does look more like trolling. What we have though rather than a nazi like party is a party that views everyone legally living in Scotland as Scots regardless of their ethnic origin or birthplace; a party who have called for more immigration into Scotland; and a party who are more enthusiastically pro-European than either of the two main UK wide parties; and a party who are very pro gay-rights etc. Not all the party members agree with that of course as it is a wide church - however that is the views of the party as a whole. Where is the likeness to the nazis?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:51 PM

In other words, you don't agree with Dave and can't stand the fact that most of us find him to be an engaging and thoughtful contributor. It really is time you dropped this silly troll business. All it does is make you look like a whingeing fool who doesn't really know what "troll" means. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:51 PM

Wait a minute, I'll write it for you Dave!

"How do you know my eyes are wide"!!! :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:30 PM

"Where did anyone equate SNP to Nazis Allan"

Well there you have it, there is trollery at its inane and boring worst.
Dave, most people here have you taped. You don't contribute to debate, you simply try to wear people down by insinuation followed by wide eyed denial.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,puinkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 06:56 PM

Goose Stepping in kilts.. ooer.. not in front of grannies and small children..!!! 😱

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 06:50 PM

Where did anyone equate the SNP to Nazis, Allan?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 06:29 PM

I agree with Ake in that equating the SNP with the Nazis because they are Scottish 'nationalists' and see themselves as 'socialists' is one for the trolls. It is like saying any party who sees itself as a democratic party must equate with Soviet style communism as East Germany called itself the German Democratic Party!

The SNP are an inclusive welcoming party who are as outward looking as any other party and more so than some of the other parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 04:44 PM

Fucking post eater. There is no absolute, universal, absolute right to immigrate to England.

As usual, Akenhateon, KtheA, and Terribilis are frothing at the mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 04:22 PM

I look forward to the day you get back to your usual, buoyant, witty self, Al. It's bloody miserable is this.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 04:22 PM

So why do you all only attack the Tories over immigration?

I don't. You need to ask 'all'. Whoever they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:56 PM

racists, bigots and nazis...

well thats folk music for you!


not of course that we're entitled to call ourselves folk music...the racist bastard folk nazis want the term for the einsatz Grupen of the Ewan MacColl Division.

don't like being caled a racist, bigot fascist Jim...well don't do it to others

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:34 PM

The first line of that was a quote from akenaton that I was responding to which I forgot to put in quotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:32 PM

.....why else would all the major Parties reverse their views on unregulated immigration?

I am not aware that any party has "reversed its views". No party, to my knowledge, has ever had a policy of "unregulated immigration", therefore there can have been no reversal of views. Certainly, there has been a sharpening of the rhetoric, especially from the Tories. There is a glaringly simple reason for that. The Tories are being led by the nose by the racists of UKIP and their camp-followers. The Tories have no answer to their simplistic, populist and bigoted " policies" so they panic and try to talk ever tougher. But talk is all it is. Think of all the failed promises of politicians over the decades. The Tory promise of getting immigration down to the tens of thousands was the biggest lie, the egregiously biggest broken promise, OF ALL TIME. Not a principle in sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:16 PM

That doesn't make sense Jim and what is, "of course you do, why wouldn't you", meant to imply?

Keith and I disagree regularly on this forum......difference is we prefer to treat one another with respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:09 PM

"I think Keith's opinions HAVE been vindicated"
Of course you do - why wouldn't you?
Bet you're one of those 'Socialists' who thought that Eunuch (whoops, nearly forgot) Mr Powell was an awfully nice man too.
"why else would all the major Parties reverse their views on unregulated immigration?"
Because you couldn't squeeze a credit card between any of them.
Put not your trust in - politicians, they're (nearly) all unprincipled self-serving sharks.
Gi' us a break Jimmie
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:57 PM

I think Keith's opinions HAVE been vindicated .....why else would all the major Parties reverse their views on unregulated immigration? other than that they were simply untenable?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:49 PM

"Do you ever feel just a little bit ashamed of yourselves now that his opinions have been vindicated."
They haven't, other than in the mind of racists and bigots - not mentioning any names, of course.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:40 PM

"Oh gosh, sorry, I don't appear to be able to blame immigrants for anything... "

I don't think anyone here is blaming the immigrants for the idiotic state of affairs which afflicts this country, the EU is responsible and successive governments are also to blame for not withdrawing years ago.

If I was young and living in a foreign hell hole, I would certainly be an economic migrant, the UK must look like heaven to these people.

While I'm at it, those of you who showered Keith with abuse when he first brought up the subject of unregulated immigration....remember "racist", "bigot" and worse, do you ever feel just a little bit ashamed of yourselves now that his opinions have been vindicated.........no I don't suppose you do :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:28 PM

Yes I noticed that Al, but just passed by holding my nose.

The SNP are certainly not socialist, they are in favour of the EU and "freedom of movement" and are a bit too media friendly for my taste, but I vote SNP for independence in the hope that it can serve our population better. They also stand for the removal of WMDs from Scottish soil, which is a must as far as I am concerned.

I am also heartened to know that the Scottish people(what's left of them) are socially conservative, regardless of what the career politicians would have us believe.

Any similarities to "National Socialism" as practiced by Mr A Hitler, reside only in the dark recesses of little trollish minds. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:13 PM

"Those at the bottom see their wages driven down, rents increased and have to compete for any housing at all and for work."

The wages are driven down by British employers applying "market forces". The rents are driven up by greedy British landlords who bought their houses with favourable terms determined by the British government and who are entitled to a lot of bogus "allowances against tax". Housing shortages are the upshot of British government policy over decades. The ones at the bottom are competing for part-time jobs, jobs with no security, zero-hour contract jobs and bogus apprenticeships, all British government policy eagerly snapped up by British employers. Of course, you can always declare yourself bogus self-employed, which is another way of saying employment that doesn't require British employers to pay national insurance, again encouraged by the British government. Oh gosh, sorry, I don't appear to be able to blame immigrants for anything...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Stu
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:10 PM

"Stu, your link does not support the views expressed here about the benefit to the economy."

I'm arguing that Theresa May is a cynical hypocrite that knows she can woo a conference of tory drones, not entering into a discussion about the details of the net gain to GDP from immigration; it's a net gain. Suggesting that they cost the taxpayer to use public services is not an argument: it costs for all of us to use public services and we should not expect to make a profit from them.