BS: Tory party conference

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:38 AM

No upper limit?
Ten thousand?
Millions?
A billion?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 08:00 AM

Oh my word!! I can see them now.

Making a human bridge across 26 miles of the English Channel. Swarming into and over Kent.

Spreading their tentacles past vast swathes of the Home Counties. Heading was to Hampshire, Dorset, Devon, Somerset and Cornwall. Eastwards to Essex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Cambridgeshire and eventually HERTFORDSHIRE !!! Heaven forfend.

Entering London.

Making inroads to the North as far as Durham, Cumbria and Northumberland.

It's about time someone wrote a fairy story about it, What!? They already have.

Oh bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 08:58 AM

MoH wrote: "Overwhelmingly immigrants are intelligent hard-working adults with abilities they have developed as they grew up in their countries of origin. They come here like a gift to our society."

Watching the evening news it struck me that those refugees slogging through Europe carrying their children and what meager personal possessions they could manage on their backs, are the kind of determined, courageous people we need in this country (the U.S.).

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:03 AM

When I was a teenager there were 2 darker faces in our small market town in Scrumpyshire.

An Indian doctor and a postman, who rumour had it was the offspring of an American GI stationed during the war.

I'm sure some of the locals fueled on the rhetoric of Enoch Powell
considered them sufficient number to get in a panic about being 'swarmed'..... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:15 AM

One thing that the Con-servative party conference has done is demonstrated how many lies they tell. How keen they are to reduce all of the less fortunate to penury and serf status. This could be the moment when we see how naked they really are, and sweep over them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:23 AM

So it goes like this. Tory party know that they are in danger of being found out so they tell their press mates to create scare stories about immigrants. Press co-operate in return for favours granted to them by Tory party. Everyone gets how bad immigration is pushed down their throats morning, noon and night. Tory party then tell everyone how good they are because they are addressing an issue that they made up in the first place. And people keep falling for it...

To give the thread a bit of a folky flavour - When will they aver learn?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:26 AM

BTW - To those claiming to be socialists while also being nationalists. Can I remind you National Socialism has been tried before. Can't remember where...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Stu
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:34 AM

"Stu, you can hardly blame Mrs May for the rise in immigration, she has absolutely no power to stop immigration from inside the EU."

Really? You might want to read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immi from Marchgration/11446218/Theresa-May-defies-Cabinet-colleagues-with-pledge-to-meet-migration-target.html

You can blame her because she said it. Then ignored the fact net migration had risen during her time as Home Secretary. Even business leaders were pissed off with her for spewing out such a nasty little speech.

Any how, in reality the tories and kippers anti-immgration stance ignores the published figures (see here for instance: http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk ). This comes as little surprise as evidence-based policy formation is virtually non-existent in British politics at present (see climate change and the government's green policies for more).

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:37 AM

You are ignoring the fact that all the other parties also argue that the level of immigration is too high.

What specifically have the Tories said on the subject that you all object to?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punlfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 10:00 AM

..as tory propaganda & press struggles to scrape through the bottom of the barrel
desperately seeking new bizarrely imagined petty accusations to discredit Corbyn..

How long before they attack his integrity, patriotism, and competance
in dealing with potential impending Alien Invasion or Zombie Apocalypse...??? 😬

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 10:07 AM

Stu, your link does not support the views expressed here about the benefit to the economy.

"MigrationWatch UK (2014) criticised the assumptions of Dustmann and Frattini (2013). The criticism covers many factors, but overall it suggests that Dustmann and Frattini (2013) exaggerated the revenues the government obtains from migrants and underestimate the cost of public service provision to migrants. Using new multiple assumptions, MigrationWatch UK (2014) finds that during the 1995-2011 period the fiscal impact of EEA migrants was GBP -13.6 billion and the fiscal impact of non-EEA migrants was GBP -135 billion. Looking at the recent EEA migrants, MigrationWatch UK (2014) estimates that the total fiscal impact of recent EEA migrants for the 2001-2011 period was GBP -0.25 billion and the impact of recent non-EEA migrants was GBP -27 billion for the same period."

If there is a net gain but it benefits employers and the wealthy while hurting those at the bottom, is that beneficial?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 10:39 AM

...all the other parties also argue that the level of immigration is too high.

Of course they do. They are politicians and tell people what they want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 10:51 AM

So why do you all only attack the Tories over immigration?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 11:10 AM

"So why do you all only attack the Tories over immigration?"

.. possibly because...
.. although any sensible citizen recognises that there would be a theoretical finite space for occupants on this island,
and accept a rational informed debate on the subject;

only the tories and even further right wing zealots
are at this present time cynically manipulating it as a scare tactic issue
to panic the voting population into pernicious paranoid xenophobia... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 12:03 PM

.. and yes that does include labour right wingers who place personal opportunism, ambition and power above party and nation... 😠


One interesting question for academic researchers may be..

All those tory MP rats who fled a sinking ship to join labour when Blair became prime minister...

To what extent do they now influence & dominate the right wing of the labour party ???

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 12:28 PM

"If there is a net gain but it benefits employers and the wealthy while hurting those at the bottom, is that beneficial?"

No it doesn't, but that applies to everything in society. It's what capitalism in the form we have it is largely about. If there is net gain it ought to be shared out fairly, and it can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 12:31 PM

Mr McGrath is right, it's not about political Parties.

It's about a system which it no longer working efficiently enough to provide for the citizens of the UK.
The wealth gap has never been wider, and like it or not the flood of immigrants add to the problems of the poor, by driving down wages and putting our rocky infrastructure under further pressure.

Calling each other stupid names will make no difference, it just makes you look dim.

Yes, the Conservative Party will keep power for the foreseeable future, but Mr Corbyn has got socialism back on the menu and his job will not be as prime minister, but as an educator of the electorate.

At last a real alternative to clapped out capitalism.

I don't agree with all Jeremy promotes, he's still a bit liberal as far as I am concerned.....to make the middle class accept a drop in living standards and an end to wastefulness will take more than even genuine liberalism!    The steel fist inside the velvet glove.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 01:22 PM

Employers and the wealthy benefit from cheaper labour.
Those at the bottom see their wages driven down, rents increased and have to compete for any housing at all and for work.
How can that be reversed?

Pfr,
scare tactic issue
to panic the voting population into pernicious paranoid xenophobia.

Can you give an example of a Tory doing that?
Nothing TM said could be so described.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 01:30 PM

"Can you give an example of a Tory doing that?"

No.. I could but I won't.. I've got more pressing things to do with my time..

look for yourself..

come on.. don't play so innocent and unaware..

just open your eyes to the reality of mass press & media content and see for yourself..

there's plenty of it about .. now.. and historically.. 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 01:39 PM

'BTW - To those claiming to be socialists while also being nationalists. Can I remind you National Socialism has been tried before. Can't remember where...'

couldn't agree more. i'm a nazi, and a racist.

this what i warned about.just abuse, pure and simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Stu
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:10 PM

"Stu, your link does not support the views expressed here about the benefit to the economy."

I'm arguing that Theresa May is a cynical hypocrite that knows she can woo a conference of tory drones, not entering into a discussion about the details of the net gain to GDP from immigration; it's a net gain. Suggesting that they cost the taxpayer to use public services is not an argument: it costs for all of us to use public services and we should not expect to make a profit from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:13 PM

"Those at the bottom see their wages driven down, rents increased and have to compete for any housing at all and for work."

The wages are driven down by British employers applying "market forces". The rents are driven up by greedy British landlords who bought their houses with favourable terms determined by the British government and who are entitled to a lot of bogus "allowances against tax". Housing shortages are the upshot of British government policy over decades. The ones at the bottom are competing for part-time jobs, jobs with no security, zero-hour contract jobs and bogus apprenticeships, all British government policy eagerly snapped up by British employers. Of course, you can always declare yourself bogus self-employed, which is another way of saying employment that doesn't require British employers to pay national insurance, again encouraged by the British government. Oh gosh, sorry, I don't appear to be able to blame immigrants for anything...

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:28 PM

Yes I noticed that Al, but just passed by holding my nose.

The SNP are certainly not socialist, they are in favour of the EU and "freedom of movement" and are a bit too media friendly for my taste, but I vote SNP for independence in the hope that it can serve our population better. They also stand for the removal of WMDs from Scottish soil, which is a must as far as I am concerned.

I am also heartened to know that the Scottish people(what's left of them) are socially conservative, regardless of what the career politicians would have us believe.

Any similarities to "National Socialism" as practiced by Mr A Hitler, reside only in the dark recesses of little trollish minds. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:40 PM

"Oh gosh, sorry, I don't appear to be able to blame immigrants for anything... "

I don't think anyone here is blaming the immigrants for the idiotic state of affairs which afflicts this country, the EU is responsible and successive governments are also to blame for not withdrawing years ago.

If I was young and living in a foreign hell hole, I would certainly be an economic migrant, the UK must look like heaven to these people.

While I'm at it, those of you who showered Keith with abuse when he first brought up the subject of unregulated immigration....remember "racist", "bigot" and worse, do you ever feel just a little bit ashamed of yourselves now that his opinions have been vindicated.........no I don't suppose you do :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:49 PM

"Do you ever feel just a little bit ashamed of yourselves now that his opinions have been vindicated."
They haven't, other than in the mind of racists and bigots - not mentioning any names, of course.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 02:57 PM

I think Keith's opinions HAVE been vindicated .....why else would all the major Parties reverse their views on unregulated immigration? other than that they were simply untenable?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:09 PM

"I think Keith's opinions HAVE been vindicated"
Of course you do - why wouldn't you?
Bet you're one of those 'Socialists' who thought that Eunuch (whoops, nearly forgot) Mr Powell was an awfully nice man too.
"why else would all the major Parties reverse their views on unregulated immigration?"
Because you couldn't squeeze a credit card between any of them.
Put not your trust in - politicians, they're (nearly) all unprincipled self-serving sharks.
Gi' us a break Jimmie
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:16 PM

That doesn't make sense Jim and what is, "of course you do, why wouldn't you", meant to imply?

Keith and I disagree regularly on this forum......difference is we prefer to treat one another with respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:32 PM

.....why else would all the major Parties reverse their views on unregulated immigration?

I am not aware that any party has "reversed its views". No party, to my knowledge, has ever had a policy of "unregulated immigration", therefore there can have been no reversal of views. Certainly, there has been a sharpening of the rhetoric, especially from the Tories. There is a glaringly simple reason for that. The Tories are being led by the nose by the racists of UKIP and their camp-followers. The Tories have no answer to their simplistic, populist and bigoted " policies" so they panic and try to talk ever tougher. But talk is all it is. Think of all the failed promises of politicians over the decades. The Tory promise of getting immigration down to the tens of thousands was the biggest lie, the egregiously biggest broken promise, OF ALL TIME. Not a principle in sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:34 PM

The first line of that was a quote from akenaton that I was responding to which I forgot to put in quotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:56 PM

racists, bigots and nazis...

well thats folk music for you!


not of course that we're entitled to call ourselves folk music...the racist bastard folk nazis want the term for the einsatz Grupen of the Ewan MacColl Division.

don't like being caled a racist, bigot fascist Jim...well don't do it to others

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 04:22 PM

So why do you all only attack the Tories over immigration?

I don't. You need to ask 'all'. Whoever they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 04:22 PM

I look forward to the day you get back to your usual, buoyant, witty self, Al. It's bloody miserable is this.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 04:44 PM

Fucking post eater. There is no absolute, universal, absolute right to immigrate to England.

As usual, Akenhateon, KtheA, and Terribilis are frothing at the mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 06:29 PM

I agree with Ake in that equating the SNP with the Nazis because they are Scottish 'nationalists' and see themselves as 'socialists' is one for the trolls. It is like saying any party who sees itself as a democratic party must equate with Soviet style communism as East Germany called itself the German Democratic Party!

The SNP are an inclusive welcoming party who are as outward looking as any other party and more so than some of the other parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 06:50 PM

Where did anyone equate the SNP to Nazis, Allan?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,puinkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 06:56 PM

Goose Stepping in kilts.. ooer.. not in front of grannies and small children..!!! 😱

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:30 PM

"Where did anyone equate SNP to Nazis Allan"

Well there you have it, there is trollery at its inane and boring worst.
Dave, most people here have you taped. You don't contribute to debate, you simply try to wear people down by insinuation followed by wide eyed denial.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:51 PM

Wait a minute, I'll write it for you Dave!

"How do you know my eyes are wide"!!! :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 15 - 07:51 PM

In other words, you don't agree with Dave and can't stand the fact that most of us find him to be an engaging and thoughtful contributor. It really is time you dropped this silly troll business. All it does is make you look like a whingeing fool who doesn't really know what "troll" means. Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 02:46 AM

Dave......."BTW - To those claiming to be socialists while also being nationalists. Can I remind you National Socialism has been tried before. Can't remember where"

I took that to be directed towards left leaning SNP supporters as obviously did Ake. If it isn't then who on earth is it directed at? The sentence seems to suggest that if you are left leaning nationalist then this has already been tried by the nazis. Sorry but it is there in black and white! That is how it reads. If this is not what you meant then fair enough it is just a clumsy sentence which is not meant.

And Steve I often agree with your views and to tell you the truth your views would generally (obviously maybe the independence debate aside) sit in well with the Nats. If people are going to be likened to nazis then there has to be evidence to back this up - otherwise it does look more like trolling. What we have though rather than a nazi like party is a party that views everyone legally living in Scotland as Scots regardless of their ethnic origin or birthplace; a party who have called for more immigration into Scotland; and a party who are more enthusiastically pro-European than either of the two main UK wide parties; and a party who are very pro gay-rights etc. Not all the party members agree with that of course as it is a wide church - however that is the views of the party as a whole. Where is the likeness to the nazis?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 02:48 AM

It seems to me that Akenhateon with his racism and homophobia is the troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 03:36 AM

I don't agree with your definition of my views Richard, but any views I have, I state them clearly and stand by them. These are not the actions of a troll.

A troll makes personal attacks, like adding "hate" to the usernames of other members, or makes clearly false charges then refuses to admit them.
I cannot remember the last time Dave made any meaningful contribution to a thread which I have been involved in, his purpose seems primarily to derail constructive debate and cause interruptions, like discussing the merits of different types of beer in the middle of a serious political thread.

Trolls are easy to spot, Steve is not a troll, he is an ideologue. Richard is a hybrid.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 03:40 AM

""of course you do, why wouldn't you","
Keith is anti- immigration and so are you
You have taken to defending Keith's excesses
What do you think I meant?
Lip service to "differences" do not get away from the fact that you share Keith's politics in general - you are both of the right.
You choose not to answer about Powell (answer enough in itself)
Can we get it clear about immigration.
Despite claims of the right, Britain is not an overcrowded country due to its immigration policy
Housing shortages and lack of accommodation is due to the predatory nature of the money-making property industry and it is centered round the south-east of England where the work is - where there are jobs, prices rocket - a legacy of the Thatcher regime.
This would be the case if there were no immigrants entering Britain.
Is is regularly said that immigrants drive down the wages of the indigenous population - they do not.
Ruthless employers prepared to replace British workers with those prepared to work for less do this.
The right in Britain either smashed or bought off the unions that, to some degree negotiated a living wage for its members and replaced it with the free-for-all that now exists.
Britain has a partly enforced minimum wage policy which falls far below a necessary living wage - S.F.A. to do with immigration - everything to do with greed.
Britain bears a responsibility to accept both economic immigrants and refugees.
Historically, we are responsible for the state the colonies were left in following the fall of the British Empire.
You asked once how long we have to go on paying for past crimes - as long as it takes to put it right.
We fill our shops with cheap goods produced under near slave, dangerous and often lethal conditions - it is little wonder immigrants seek a better life here.
The entire history of Britain is based on our own economic migration - only we sent armies of soldiers and priests to 'civilise' and plunder the places we went (within my lifetime certainly)
For all the problems Britain has, it remains a wealthy country due to our history of Empire - unfortunately that wealth is mainly centred in the hands of the few - not the fault of immigrants.
You sneer at the people in some of these third-world countries who try to better their lot - your "so called" Arab Spring protesters - what are they supposed to do - bend their neck and put up with their lot? - apparently so, you offer no alternative.
The West, in its dealing with despotic feudal dictators, takes a large share of responsibility in what is happening there.
Isis would never have got to where it has had the West done what it is now doing in Syria.
We have an actual, a moral and a humanitarian obligation to welcome these people (god knows here God features in the thinking of those who claim to be Christians in these matters - totally beyond me.
Anti-immigration was once the stamping-ground of the fringe nutters - the The National Front, B.N.P., the rabid right as typified by Powell, so extreme, he was considered to far off the wall for his own Party and only accepted by Northern Ireland Unionists.
Now it is main line policy - neo Fascists like Farrago and his Ukippers, official Tory Party policy - the Labour party (hopefully due for a change-of-=heart under a new leader.
Anti-immigration has become a vote-catcher based on the Xenophopbia drummed into us all by centuries of our being told that we were the finest on the planet.
Surveys have indicated that over 50% of the population holds and has openly expressed racist vies at one time or another - not a thing to be proud of.
Anti- immigration can only help to inflate that shameful statistic.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 03:44 AM

I've disagreed with Ake on various points before which he would concede. That isn't the point though. I wasn't talking about Ake here. What I replied to was the suggestion that people who see themselves as both nationalist and socialist should remember it has been tried before. That doesn't appear to be only pointed at one person but could be directed towards a significant chunk of the Scottish population. And there is no basis to it! There is no comparison or similarity between the SNP (or in fact the Scottish Greens) and the Nazis. It is perfectly possible as I said in the last post that it was not meant like that - but that is how it reads.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 04:34 AM

I am not anti-immigration, but like most of the population and every political party, I think the current rate is too high.
While it benefits government, employers and the rich, the deleterious consequences fall upon the poor.

Steve<
I am not aware that any party has "reversed its views".

The Blair/Brown governments encouraged immigration.
Members of that government have since admitted that they allowed the rate to get too high, with harmful consequences.

There is a case for and against high levels of immigration.
To have an informed debate, both sides need to be put.
May put the case against.
Why do people object?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:23 AM

Allan - The statement I made was referring to 'those who etc.' was not directed at the SNP. Clumsy sentence it may be but I would have thought anyone would have spotted the obvious pun. It is not advisable to call yourself a national socialist in light of events in the mid 20th century.

Ake - Define 'troll' for us please so we can at least know what you are rambling on about.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:32 AM

anti immigration is just shop window dressing for the tories. it is just bluster to appease the blimps. it is never reflected in their policies. i'm not suggesting it should be.

but let's be honest. the actual open door policies they pursue is not borne of love for our fellow man. it is there out of simple supply and demand principles. if they can come up with a supply of desperately poor immigrants - there will never be a way to unionise and get decent wages and living conditions. it is a policy based on bloody wickedness.

when therre are parts of the country where houses change hands for pennies, and pissy little flats in london cost millions. the economy of the country is so skewed and out of kilter, adding more to the workforce in the south east is just making a bad situation worse.

as for the new immigrants being a gift from heaven. we already have such a gift - our own young people we teach them in slum schools with crappy old textbooks with teaching techniques reminiscent of a billy bunter novel. we teach them standards of behaviour with the Jeremy Kyle Show. we care for them in under resourced hospitals when they get ill. when they have fought in our armies and worked in our factories we give them shit pensions and in many cases let them die on the street. we have them live in filthy cities where class a drugs are available on every main street.

that is society the tories have given us and which they are trying to drive down the demands of the citizens by pricing them out of employment.

i'm bloody miserable Steve because you Dave and Jim think its okay to call me a racist, a bigot, a nazi.

Alan Whittle - lifelong Labour voter.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:34 AM

Sorry, ake. I see you have already done that.

A troll makes personal attacks, like adding "hate" to the usernames of other members, or makes clearly false charges then refuses to admit them.

I have already advised you that for compassionate reasons I have stopped referring to you as the village idiot, even if I believe you deserve it at times. Yet you still make personal attacks on me. Fine, all can see what is going on. I have never made any false charges. What else have you got?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:45 AM

Al, I never referred to you as a racist, a bigot or a nazi. I Said that some comments you made were racist and gave you the opportunity to address them. You did not do so but took the huff and decided to leave Mudcat in a fit of pique. Which no-one can take seriously as you are obviously still here. Your memory of the events are different to mine. You know you are right. I know I am right. Neither of us can provide any evidence but no-one ever brings it up apart from you. I can only suggest you leave it alone or, every time you bring it up, I shall repeat my memories of the event.