 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Fear WITH Guns
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Jeri Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:52 PM I agree with Rap. Cut off ingress and egress, their services, and leave them the hell alone. There's no real need to DO anything. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Jeri Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:49 PM Or Waco |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: GUEST Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:47 PM It is being reported that they are now bringing children to the refuge presumably to be used as human shields - a tactic no doubt learned from the Hamas terrorists in Gaza. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 04 Jan 16 - 12:16 PM No. It is pronounced WAKE-o. True enough - but the Branch Davidians are pronounced WHACK-o and David Koresh is pronounced MUR-der-er. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 04 Jan 16 - 11:58 AM They have occupied a federal compound while armed with the intent of overthrowing the government and instituting what they feel is a better one. Granted, that's in the Declaration of Independence as a reason for the American Revolution, but then, if the Rebels had lost they would have been hanged as traitors. So, these people are traitors and are waging war against the United States. Wage war against the US and you lose your US citizenship (if you have it). Turn off the electricity, the water, cancel their phone service, and the rest. No one (especially the press) allowed in or out of a restricted area; armored vehicles tow away their vehicles. 100 people inside an unheated building, no toilet facilities, no food, no escape, no contact with the outside world -- how long before they surrender? And if they come out shooting, well, they only have so many bullets and the cops, etc. have bullet-proof vehicles in which to stay. The Refuge is 30 miles from town so there is little danger to others. Then the courts take over. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: GUEST,# Date: 04 Jan 16 - 10:46 AM ' (pronounced "Whacko") ' No. It is pronounced WAKE-o. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stu Date: 04 Jan 16 - 07:01 AM "…toy guns need to be banned." Not here they don't. Sorry. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Richard Bridge Date: 04 Jan 16 - 05:52 AM The US army was used to end the Whisky tax rebellion. It should be used now with orders to shoot on sight and shoot to kill against this bunch of murderous Bundyite retards. It might raise the average IQ slightly, much like the successful extermination of fundagelical murderers at Waco (pronounced "Whacko") where over 80 menaces to society were removed for the loss of only 6 pest controllers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: GUEST Date: 04 Jan 16 - 03:06 AM Without going into a lengthy analysis of why they were ok when we were kids and not so much now, toy guns need to be banned. They look too much like the real thing. After all, we don't have candy cigarettes any more either. Simulating lethal activities is just a bad idea in 2016. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: MGM·Lion Date: 03 Jan 16 - 06:02 PM Blimey O'Reilly yet again! Don't you luvverly lot over there ever tie yourselves in a load of complex untiable knots just becoz of your grotty out-of-control self-contradictory uninterpretable gun-laws. Now if you'd only started from the off with some sensible ones like ours:- like, say, you can't have the buggaz without some genuinely convincing reason + a decent level of control... Oh, wotza use... Think I'll go back to bed..... luvyazall justasame mind... & your great country... It's just that |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jan 16 - 03:39 PM Most federal sites, like post offices and national parks have policies about no guns on the premises. USFW is a federal site, so there may be more law that can be thrown at them (though the BLM is also federal - whatever happened to the Bundy's at that location?) It's a slow-moving train wreck, watching these fools act out their drama that clearly demonstrates they have no understanding of the law or the Constitution (that they claim to be defending). "What shall we watch tonight, dear? Downton Abbey?" "No, let's turn on the news and see what goes on at the Oregon Wildlife Refuge. It's less predictable." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jan 16 - 03:19 PM Calling the invasion of the wildlife refuge building a "peaceful" protest is somewhat disingenuous, in that that the participants are quoted as saying they will use their weapons "if needs be". The only reason it is currently "peaceful" is that no one has yet challenged them. I have been at the Refuge several times and the question I have is as to how the 'militia' got in. If no workers were there when they arrived, it appears they are guilty of breaking and entering. My suggestion: Have a couple of uniformed and badged - but UNARMED - law officers enter the premises and order the 'patriots' to disperse or face arrest. If they are disregarded or held hostage, the perpetrators can then be charged with interfering with the law. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 03 Jan 16 - 11:02 AM Speaking of people with guns, HERE'S some domestic terrorists people actually SHOULD be afraid of. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Jan 16 - 10:18 AM I predict there will be a morbid list now, of the open carry folks who shoot innocent by-standers for various reasons. NPR story. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 03 Jan 16 - 09:55 AM We so need a federal permit and take this awayffrom the states. They lost their minds. Greg is so right, only four states require concealed. We are going back to dodge city and doc holiday. God help us |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stu Date: 03 Jan 16 - 04:24 AM " It's about the only thing I can do now, since I don't think these folks are remotely qualified to "protect" me with their ill-conceived good intentions. I predict that a lot of innocent by-standers are going to be killed or maimed before the legislature reconsiders this permission to go native with handguns." Surely that counts whether the guns are openly carried or concealed though? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 02 Jan 16 - 10:34 PM And some states are getting pushed for "Constitutional Carry" -- or no concealed carry permit to carry concealed. Unfortunately, Idaho is among them Of course, this is the same Legislature that allowed guns on campus a year or so ago; a chemistry instructor at Idaho State University (here, in the town where I live) promptly shot himself in the foot during class. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 16 - 03:30 PM Most states require it to be fully concealed. Unfortunately not these days, Dan. Do a web search - there's like 40 states out of 50 where you can pretend you're Bat Masterson or Whm Bonnie no - or few - questions asked. Scary, and stupid, but there it is!! Send a thank-you card to the National Rifle Assassination and all the Republican asshole congressmen when you get a spare minute. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 02 Jan 16 - 02:49 PM Most states require it to be fully concealed. Open carry except in a state like alaska where you are not the top of the food chain and is a common practice is a terrible idea. It scares people and is stupid |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 02 Jan 16 - 12:06 PM I quite agree! If you want to carry a gun openly, join the military or the police (if they'll have you). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jan 16 - 09:46 AM Open carry hadn't been permitted since the late 1800s in Texas. It was a law put in place for a reason that these Yahoos (think Swift) no longer remember. Probably never learned about in school before they dropped out in the ninth grade. I plan to leave any establishment in which people come in with their personal firearms in view, and let the management know why I'm leaving, and the extent of their sales loss because of my departure. And I plan to ask in my regular places if they allow open carry, so I can find new regular places to shop, eat, etc, if necessary. It's about the only thing I can do now, since I don't think these folks are remotely qualified to "protect" me with their ill-conceived good intentions. I predict that a lot of innocent by-standers are going to be killed or maimed before the legislature reconsiders this permission to go native with handguns. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 16 - 09:31 AM But don't be TOO hard on the Texas morons; 11 states permit open carry without requiring the citizen to apply for any permit or license and 13 States permit open carry with some restrictions. Welcome to Tombstone, Arizona ca. 1876. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 02 Jan 16 - 09:20 AM No, it means there are a lot of deluded jackasses in Texas who think it's still 1882. And the delusion is spreading. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Tradsinger Date: 02 Jan 16 - 04:52 AM Does this mean that there are a lot of "well-regulated militia" in Texas? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stu Date: 02 Jan 16 - 04:34 AM Interesting article in The Guardian about open-carry laws in Texas: Open carry of handguns in Texas: fear for some but 'everybody else is packing' I have to say I would view someone openly carrying a gun very dimly. It's an act of aggression and designed to intimidate others, pure and simple. I guess it's designed to stop you arguing with the ape carrying the gun in case he/she looses his/hers temper and pops a cap in yo ass. Nice. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 01 Jan 16 - 04:24 PM I doubt that those scenes, GUEST TS, has the same impact of playing a "shooter" video game over and over. I won't discount it, as a very large number of factors are in play. I very much wish that the gun (and violence in general) wasn't viewed as the sole means to solve problems. Yes, explosions and gunshots and car chases are exciting (to young minds anyway), but what is shown in the movies and videos are not what nearly always happens in real life. Unfortunately, a disconnect between reality and fantasy seems to be missing -- as do quite a number of other things. But when a country's leadership views violence as a sole solution.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: GUEST,TS Date: 01 Jan 16 - 03:52 PM A question: Does not the large number of handgun visuals (often dark in color and close up) often seen in US TV dramas not seem similar to cigarette smoking in days gone by that was actively promoted by tobacco companies? Or would it not seem reasonable to just back off with those visuals for the sake of human lives? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 31 Dec 15 - 03:06 PM Nail on the head Greg exactly |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 31 Dec 15 - 02:17 PM CNN is reporting that Obama issuing eexecutive order to fix the gun show loophole. Dan, I'm sure the Repubs will mount a campaign to override it. I would fully support a system of gun control that was well considered and well thought out instead of a mish-mash cobbled together in reaction to events. Rap, exactly why a single FEDERAL nationwide statute is needed to supercede & override the mish-mash of ineffective State legislation. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Dec 15 - 12:46 PM Yep, that's how it seems to me, Bill. It will take a lot of education and a revolution in the mindset of many - perhaps the vast majority - of Americans before anything will change. Meanwhile, the rest of the world looks on with chins on chests in utter disbelief that a nation that prides itself on being the home of the brave and the land of the free is apparently happy to accept such stupidity. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Bill D Date: 31 Dec 15 - 12:13 PM I read the article.... it says essentially what I have been saying in posts here for several years. It says that 'only reduction in the number of guns would seriously reduce the number of deaths'... then it says that although there IS a legal, constitutional way to make a reduction, there's little chance of actually doing it because of the mind-set of too many people. That mind-set is pushed by those who have a financial interest to go along with their personal mind-set, and who essentially BUY a large enough % of congress to keep reform from happening. (This situation, as I have said before, is made possible by the "states rights" configuration of our basic political system.) Short version... it's a vicious circle. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 31 Dec 15 - 11:35 AM 1. I own and shoot firearms. 2. They are stored, unloaded and with a trigger lock, in a locked steel cabinet. 3. Whatever ammunition I have is similarly stored elsewhere. 4. There are no children in my house and they rarely, if ever, visit. 5. I do not brag about having them and consider them tools for an Olympic-sanctioned sport that I enjoy -- target shooting. 6. I would fully support a system of gun control that was well considered and well thought out instead of a mish-mash cobbled together in reaction to events. 7. I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of the National Rifle Association, although I do support their work in firearms safety. Please read this. It is well considered. As for Ebbie's original question: cops get frightened too, but they are supposedly trained to cope with that and other things.Training is imperative, but there must also be a psychological makeup that rejects the immediate use of force. British police started unarmed, but with armed backup, because the people were afraid of police in the "French style." Robert Peel did arm them, very briefly, in the beginning, but it was found that the general level of cop was very low. Although it was required, many could not read or write. Over a couple of centuries this evolved into a very good police force indeed. A better example might be the German police force -- you might want to check out the training that this armed police force goes through. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 31 Dec 15 - 11:27 AM Cnn is reporting that Obama isusing eexecutive order to fix the gun show loophole.. Thank you God. About time |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 31 Dec 15 - 09:48 AM In Paris and Brussels there are armed troops needed on the streets, and they still dare not have New Year's Eve fireworks. DEC. 30, 2015 - PARIS — Officials are investigating accounts of an alcohol-fueled "orgy" at a police station one night last month while Brussels, the Belgian capital, was nearly shut down over fears of a copycat terrorist attack. According to an article in La Dernière Heure, a local newspaper, the orgy occurred sometime between Nov. 21 — when the federal government's crisis center raised the alert level for the Brussels region to 4, the highest — and Nov. 26, when the alert level was reduced to 3. According to the newspaper, after the police station closed for the night at 10 p.m., two policewomen were invited upstairs to the floor where the soldiers were sleeping and had sex with eight of them. A spokeswoman for the Brussels-West police agency, one of six police departments that patrol the city, confirmed on Wednesday that it had begun an internal investigation. American officials reacted cautiously to the reports that Belgian officials had disrupted a New Year's Eve plot. Some said the arrests this week in Belgium and Turkey, as well as the Paris attacks themselves, had stirred a broader debate about Europe's ability to address terrorist threats now and in the future. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stu Date: 31 Dec 15 - 08:12 AM What I mean by my last comment is the mindset of those associated with guns is currently a dominating force in society; we need to change this by recognising the only way to stop the slaughter is allow those who don't want guns and reject violence to formulate policy. Our societies are way too violent, and it's time for the people of violence to move over; they don't keep the peace and they are not serving our society effectively and with compassion. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Stu Date: 31 Dec 15 - 07:53 AM "If Rice (5'7"- #195) pulled his stunt at Heathrow today I'd give him 50-50 on survival<" He was a TWELVE YEAR OLD BOY for fuck's sake; he like Bill D says, he wasn't "pulling a stunt". An even if he had a toy gun at Heathrow (which would be stupid of those who let him take to an airport) I'd bet a pound to a penny he wouldn't have been gunned down without warning. And though airguns are dangerous for sure, owning one or shooting someone with one is not a reason to kill them. Get some perspective for crying out loud. These are PEOPLE. The people who know about guns, swat teams, navy seals and all the associated violent and belligerent attitudes that invariably seem to go hand-in-hand with gun ownership are certainly NOT the ones who should be deciding whether our societies should be awash with devices that make it so easy to kill. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 31 Dec 15 - 05:18 AM In Paris and Brussels there are armed troops needed on the streets, and they still dare not have New Year's Eve fireworks. It is reported that every armed officer will be on duty in London tonight. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Dec 15 - 04:02 AM And it's almost unimaginable and impossible in the UK. A police officer (who, of course, would be unarmed, as they are here), on seeing an individual with what appeared to be a firearm, would call in a specialist Armed Response Unit - armed officers who have had the psychological testing and training which oldude and rap mention. Mistakes have happened here, but it's rare - considerably rarer than seems to be the case in the US. But, as has been said on so many of these 'gun' threads, guns are VERY rarely seen here, and there is a completely different attitude to guns in the UK than in the US. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 30 Dec 15 - 11:09 PM Bill, it could be also not fear, just some bad people who just want to kill someone and pretend to do it legally. Ebbie is correct that a highly trained officer would not pull the car right up to a person who has been reported as having a gun. That action makes no sense unless the mindset was pull up and I will drop him. It is very sad and very questionable in my eyes |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Bill D Date: 30 Dec 15 - 11:01 PM I can totally agree/admit that pellet guns & BB guns are not toys, and should not be considered as such... and at the same time agree with Greg F. for a change. No matter WHAT the gun was, the response by those officers was IF that kid had pointed that pellet gun at someone, or at the cops, after being told from a distance to put it down, THEN there might be a justification for firing at him, depending on who and where. They claimed that he was 'drawing' it, and fired at him within 2 seconds. The police car was still rocking from its sudden stop when that cop decided in the 1st second that there was a threat and fired in the 2nd second. Tamir Rice died not even having a chance to obey a command. I am totally angered and bewildered that the issue of a kid having a 'dangerous' pellet gun is getting more static than the issue of cops shooting first and asking questions later. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 30 Dec 15 - 10:57 PM I know many do rap, you know my background and guys like you and I know it is all about the mindset and less about shooting skills. Many depts do havetthe psychological training but many only for the swat teams. I think more focus on psychological training and testing is needed |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 30 Dec 15 - 10:02 PM I quite agree, GF. I've said so earlier on. I'm just saying that they are not toys. I have both an air rifle and a CO2 pistol. Like any weapon they should be used safely. And I fault the cop for not assessing the situation further before firing. olddude, some cop shops require psychological testing. Some training facilities actually will do "practical firing" after a mile run and before a BIG test while instructors scream at the students. More departments should do testing, most police academies should try to weed out the students with psychological problems. No chief (or fellow officer) in their right mind wants to deal with what Cleveland, Chicago, and other cities are dealing with right now. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: GUEST,# Date: 30 Dec 15 - 07:34 PM Between you last three posters you've pretty much nailed it in one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 30 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM Fear. That's exactly it, in spades. The U.S culture of fear, hyped by Republican assholes and others of limited intelligence. Same bullshit as when Richard Hofstadter published The Paranoid Style in American Politics in 1964. Someone is always out to getcha getcha getcha - Mexican immigrant criminal rapists, the Federal Government, minorities, residents of urban slums, the poor, the disadvantaged, Muslims, "Liberals", humanists, Syran refugees, Planned Parenthood, the whole pantheon of they're out to getcha terrorist shibboleths. Pat Sky ( god love him!) had this down in 1968 and we haven't learned shit since: Queen of Fools turn around, life will be your folly Wave your wand at those who will waste away and worry Play them for the fools they are and make their steps up for them A clock that's shaken hard enough, it cannot stay in rhythm. (c)Rabelaisian Music, Inc. Ditto Tom Paxton in 1965: Buy a gun for your son right away, Sir Shake his hand like a man and let him play, Sir. Let his little mind expand, Place a weapon in his hand, For the skills he learns today will someday pay, Sir. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WphNO24h9nA The U.S. hasn't learned a fucking thing in half a century. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 30 Dec 15 - 05:51 PM By the way most swat teams members of the police are ex special forces. They don't rattle. Our patrol officers need their psychological testing and training and not just target skills |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: olddude Date: 30 Dec 15 - 05:47 PM One thing we can't train is common sense. The reason navy seals are such a small group is their training and their psychological testing. They don't rattle under fire but stay cool. Their awareness of when to shoot to rescue hostages. Police need to go through that testing I think. Too many get rattled and shoot first. Sadly this is the result. More training more stress and psychological training may make a big difference |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Greg F. Date: 30 Dec 15 - 05:39 PM Air guns are NOT toys. Nor are they, 99.9% of the time,lethal. And holding one should not engender a death sentance. GF- hunter, target shooter & responsible firearm owner. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Rapparee Date: 30 Dec 15 - 10:05 AM Air guns are NOT toys. They have been and are used for hunting small game, and larger ones have been used to take down deer. That is why the manufacturers refuse to allow orange "toy marking" on the weapons. Airsoft is similar, but with less muzzle velocity and a far lighter projectile. Either can harm or kill. A spring operated "BB gun" produces from 250 to 350 fps to a 5 grain .174 steel ball ("BB"). Ten pumps on a Daisy Powerline 880 will get 560 to 670 fps with the same steel ball. A Beeman R-1 moves it up to as much as 1100 fps, and some newer models are faster. For some perspective, a standard 9mm round or a .45 ACP move at about 650 fps and a standard .22 at 1025. Of course, these last rounds are more deadly because the bullets have more mass (230 grains for a military-grade .45 ACP, 40 grains for a .22). Air guns are NOT toys. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: Megan L Date: 30 Dec 15 - 02:30 AM Pellet guns are not toys, ask this childs mother |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Fear WITH Guns From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 30 Dec 15 - 02:17 AM "Stopped back always and yelled at him". Great idea in a potentially dangerous situation. Honestly ! Like I said earlier, I would not want to be a police officer in America!, |
