BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?

Subject: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 16 - 09:03 PM

More deaths are attributed to this animal than mankind. Human pathogens and war combined do not surpass the lethal results of this nefarious animal.
This deadly animal is nature's flying syringe the mosquito.
If a mosquito were a gun, its ammunition is multiple pathogens.

Through mosquito bites

Zika virus is transmitted to people primarily through the bite of an infected Aedes species mosquito (A. aegypti and A. albopictus). These are the same mosquitoes that spread dengue, yellow fever and chikungunya viruses.


What we can do has never been done.

We can make this mosquito extinct. This is the one species that virtually lives only among people. We can now do this with CRISPR and a world wide distribution of altered mosquitos. The treated mosquito will spread their genes with progeny that will be unable to survive.

The attack of the altered baby mosquito killer genes is forever passed down until no unaltered parent is left alive.

There is another method that gene alterations only limits the mosquito from harboring some select virus.


What we do not know is a scenario in which this killing gene altering method can infect another species. A frog, a bird or a cat can get gene alterations via a virus carrier in small segments.

Should we risk the "What If"

when we don't know what the what ifs are ?

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 16 - 09:19 PM

It's a right bugger is that, Donuel. I wish there were no slugs eating my brassicas, no midges ruining my Scottish holidays, no adders to threaten my sandalled feet, no wasps building nests in my porch, no rats eating my bird food, no blue mould to spoil my bread. Every organism has its place in the ecosystem. It's perfectly legitimate to show any organism on the planet that we're boss. It should never be in our gift to seek to eliminate a species completely. It took three billion years to get life to where it is, with all its intricate and wonderful interrelationships and interactions. We don't understand one tenth of it as yet, and it behoves us to not blunder in and wipe species out for our advantage. Not yet, not by a country mile.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Feb 16 - 10:01 PM

Should we risk the "What If" when we don't know what the what ifs are ?

Check with Donald Trump. He's proposed wiping out all sorts of things.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 03:05 AM

If his physical dexterity is anything like his verbal, he couldn't even wipe out his own arse.

It gets a bit philosophical talking of extermination of species. There is a counter argument saying that if we do so, that in itself is evolution. Cause and effect seems to have been the order of the day well before we evolved to our present state.

Take Australia. We introduced cattle and the flies multiplied like buggery. So we introduced dung beetles and achieved an eco balance by intervention. Then some silly sod introduced rabbits in order to "frolic for the delight of the ladies."

Yin and yang, this tweaking of the Eco system.

As an ex miner, I was rather saddened to find out the other night that the breed used for pit ponies (galloways) died out and we forgot to save a breeding pair to keep them going. I've still got pictures from the 1920s of children, my mum amongst them, riding them at whitsuntide when they brought them up at our pit for a couple of days of sun and fresh air.

Add Eco criminal to the sins of Th*tcher eh?

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 03:17 AM

Not my subject, but a little bit of reading suggests that this technology is in its very early stages, and there are already considerable worries about unintended consequences. In addition to which, attacking the pathogens rather than the vector is surely a better approach. So taking Donuel's last two lines, the last line is very true, and in my view beans that the answer to the question in the one above has to be "no", or at least "not yet".

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 03:18 AM

If we exterminate the biggest killer, that will leave another species to be the biggest killer. So we exterminate that ... and the next, and the next ... until all we have left are WASPs.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 03:48 AM

Aye, those White Anglo Saxon Protestants. Don't worry, they'll get eaten by giant cockroaches.

The Zika solutions are being tested against the principle of merely getting a more hardy mutation of offending critters next year. Mind you, my greenhouse has had every chemical B&Q sell plastered on it over the last few years and all I get is more greenfly.

For us in the temperate UK, global warming will increase the risk of mozzies drifting north. Although we are getting white frosts this week, it's hardly cold and even up here, I doubt we have seen it go below -2 this winter. That alone affects this summer's buzzing fauna. (And flora. My daffodils are coming to an end, the croakarses bloomed last month yet my winter Iris decided to come out this month rather than last December. I intend to rename our Autumn Golds by a less seasonal name or accept an ironic garden.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 04:08 AM

Mosquitoes may be deadly (to humans) but they're not responsible for the 6th mass extinction event in the history of the world. In addition, mosquitoes probably don't even know that they're deadly ... unlike the creatures responsible for the 6th mass extinction!

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 06:27 AM

The densest population of mosquitoes I've ever met was at Yusufeli in north-east Turkey, where the population fed themselves by irrigated gardens. You needed absolutely impenetrable mosquito nets to sleep. But the other thing that kept you awake at night, until you got used to it, was a continuous roar like an industrial plant or airport runway. It was actually the croaking of thousands of frogs. Guess what the frogs were eating.

Exterminate anything and you take a lot more with it. Ecologically it would make a lot of sense to exterminate Americans, but think how many species of innocent house dust mites and pubic lice depend on them.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 07:58 AM

"and it behoves us to not blunder in and wipe species out for our advantage"

So preserve Variola major ?
How about Plasmodium falciparum ?
Moving along to the multi-celled how about Onchocerca volvulus ?

It doesn't take long to get to the mosquitos when deciding where to draw a line. They are a vector though. It's nice not the have the ague in the fens. Is local extinction OK if they are still plaguing others?

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 08:02 AM

Centres for Disease Control and Prevention
"There are approximately 3,500 species of mosquitoes grouped into 41 genera. Human malaria is transmitted only by females of the genus Anopheles. Of the approximately 430 Anopheles species, only 30-40 transmit malaria (i.e., are "vectors") in nature."

So out of 3,500 species Donuel is talking about targeting 2 of them.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 01:16 PM

We need more bats. The flying mammals, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Leunod
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 05:21 PM

Musket were you an opal finder?

Steve is a fine speaker, at least in print.


There is a less controversial way to stop the egypti infections by adding a bacteria that inhibits the survivability of Zika virus in the mosquito gut.


When it comes to saving lives, advanced medicine is often accused of Playng God.

When it comes to mass killing and warfare and death it is described as being strong.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 16 - 09:07 PM

Mosquitos never killed anyone, though they may have driven them to suicide.

Plasmodium protozoans killed a lot of people. Zika viruses are damaging a lot of people. There's no evidence that mosquitos intend to carry these organisms.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Padre
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 12:35 AM

It is essential to distinguish between the disease entity and any vector that may transmit it. Many virulent pathogens - Plasmodia, Rickettsia, etc. are spread by arthropod vectors - mosquitos, lice, fleas, etc. As guest above (2107/09:07 PM) points out, the vector has no intention of passing on the pathogen...its intent is to get a blood meal as a part of its life cycle. When I was an infectious disease investigator for the Navy, we recognized that it would be impossible to eliminate all potential vectors in a given area, but if we could reduce the number of vectors while immunizing (where there was a vaccine available) potential 'victims' of the pathogen, we could control the exposure of our sailors/Marines.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 05:01 AM

Many, maybe most, people kill athropods to avoid the discomfort caused by them getting a blood meal. It's one of the reason for having a vacuum cleaner.

I do. I usually open the windows to let flies out though.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 12:52 PM

While mosquitoes carry malaria, which is a huge cause of mortality (and the reason we in the US aren't British), other mosquitoes are vectors of other diseases, such as yellow fever, chikungunya, various types of encephalitis, heartworm (dogs) and other things I can't think of right now.

As far as I know, the one positive attibute of skeeters is they're eaten by other species.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 07:32 PM

Musket, may you find a 6 kilo red opal under the dynamite shack.

Steve, bugger a Dugger, its a wicked call.

there were times we took a risk with an unexplored nuclear chain reaction, We had questions about the LHC.

We are already in extinction mode. Many animals that lived when I was a kid are now gone as in extinct.

When we talk about saving lives with gene manipulation critics say we are playing God. When a new weapon is made to kill masses of people it is called strength.

I have been wary of Monsanto putting sterile genes into crops that could cross pollinate with other grasses.

A very old English film predicted a similar disaster in "NO Blade of Grass.

Whatever we do life will go on. It will never be exactly as we know it. Life will find a niche or it will find death.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 07:34 PM

Mosquito is the only thing I ever feared in the jungle. Forget snakes or getting shot.. That thing will take you down and nothing stops it. Not thick clothing, not deet, not mud. It always finds a spot to bite

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 08:00 PM

You gotta rub that deet on your ass, Dan. The little buggers can spear you through two layers of cloth and they can't smell. Better still, get someone else to rub it on your ass for you. Tell them you're doing them a favour, that they won't get bitten on the palms of their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 16 - 08:09 PM

Joking aside, In southern Italy in September, where the bastards bite hard and long, I find 50% deet totally effective as long as you cover yourself properly with it. I also find that those plug-in jobs you put In your bedroom work well. Christ knows what you're breathing in all night though. Craghoppers shirts and shorts have a built-in mozzie repellent that doesn't wash out, and I never get bitten through those clothes, only on my bare bits.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 02:43 AM

Yeah I use anti mozzie clothing too. Seems to work as good as anything else.

For some reason, and be buggered if I can work out what it is, I fancy some sweets from my childhood. Do they still make Opal Fruits? Can you still buy them?

Must be subliminal.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 10:44 AM

Skin so soft, a silly skin lotion keeps them away better than deet.. However, the enemy can smell ya before he sees ya

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 11:18 AM

Avon has started marketing a "Skin-So-Soft" product with picardin, which IS a repellent. Any mineral oil is a barrier, which is somewhat effective in preventing mosquito bits.

The basic Avon product has been tested and doesn't work. Article in Snopes. My theory for why this still, decades after being de-bunked, gets passed around is it's and excuse to use a lovely-smelling skin care product and not get razzed for it.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 11:24 AM

Jeri, "Skin so soft" is widely used in Scotland against the dreaded "mijies".....it works well.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 11:29 AM

Ah - belief-based science. Can't argue with it.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 01:18 PM

I would still disagree, I spent a lifetime in the woods and it was the best even over deet. Maybe the smell but it works

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 02:02 PM

Sorry Jeri "article in Snopes" doesn't cut it, where is the peer-reviewed research with proper control samples. Best to regard this as unproven, rather than just wrong.

Also, are we sure that the formulation in the UK and North America is the same? Remember Alain Baxter and the Vicks inhaler?

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 03:37 PM

Ask rap, in Vietnam, the guys would write home saying forget the cookie send that skin so soft for skeeders damn stuff works

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 03:37 PM

Journal of Insect Science: The Efficacy of Some Commercially Available Insect Repellents for Aedes aegypti (Diptera: Culicidae) and Aedes albopictus (Diptera: Culicidae)

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 03:58 PM

I know the urban legend Dan. If you think it works for you, fine. I'd just as soon not have people telling others it will prevent them from getting potentially fatal diseases when there isn't a shred of proof that it will, and a load of proof that it won't.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 06:00 PM

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/22/cbs-11-i-team-puts-mosquito-repelling-products-top-the-test/   

This test said it does work but not as well as deet, I suspect the type of mosquito makes a difference

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 06:01 PM

Test

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 06:29 PM

That test used 15% deet. I won't venture out for long in late summer unless I'm covered with 50% deet. I got some extremely nasty wounds from mozzie bites in southern Italy in the autumn of 2013. I have scars to prove it. Never again! Deet rules!

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 06:58 PM

So soft british Columbia medical journal test 85 percent as effective as 95 percent deet

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 07:00 PM

The canuks are tough, they used their arms and legs instead of sprayed sponges.. See I told ya the shit works, why I don't know

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 07:40 PM

85% as good isn't good enough. It means you get bitten. These things are variable feasts in any case. Just as with sun lotion, spread the stuff too thinly and your protection is compromised. I'm very prone to mozzie attacks, but I can say without fear or favour that I've never been bitten on any part of me that has been smothered in deet.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 08:43 PM

Steve ever run into land leeches in the jungle, talk about nasty Fuckers.. Some how they get under your clothes and ya got blood running down after ya dig the bastards off

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 08:47 PM

No but I once got completely eaten by a twelve-foot alligator and didn't live to tell the tale. But then we 'ad it tough...

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 27 Feb 16 - 10:40 PM

Only 12 feet, just a baby one

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 16 - 09:34 AM

It was twelve feet between the eyes. I forgot to say that.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 16 - 04:58 PM

I've had cats who were definitely aiming for the title of "biggest killer in the world", but none of them quite succeeded in attaining it.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 28 Feb 16 - 05:28 PM

Leave malaria alone. It got Cromwell.

I'd put some money on the pneumonia virus, if it's a virus, or bacterium if that's what it is - "the old person's friend" as it used to be called, because before the days of heroic medical interference a lot of people died of it. Not a nice death, but at least relatively fast.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 29 Feb 16 - 02:53 AM

Technically speaking, many still do die from it. Especially where cancer is the official cause. It is many years since it was put down as primary where it takes hold due to the other cause but from a clinical perspective, pneumonia sets in during the terminal phase in many cases.

In western society, lifestyle choices ultimately decide your morbidity and mortality.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 29 Feb 16 - 02:58 AM

They do and they don't, Musket. They certainly influence it, but cancer still kills healthy children and adults, as do other diseases, epidemics and genetic conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 29 Feb 16 - 03:26 AM

The word "many" was in my post.

For my sins I'm a doctor, and the epidemiology of oncology is my specialist field, although other aspects of public health pay the bills at present. Cancerous cells can be and are obstructive, hence their primary status. Sadly my work with Imperial Health on mortality rates shows pulmonary obstruction as the "mercy shot" even in many leukaemic cases. The word "healthy" is one I'd probably not use in context in your post.

Funnily enough, I naturally presumed my less scientific claim on western lifestyle might have provoked debate rather than the established statement on pneumonia?

Ah well.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Mar 16 - 02:45 AM

So, you are a doctor??...and oncology is your field?.....Do you know much about cancer cells and viruses not being able to live in an alkaline body?
If so, expound.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 16 - 06:56 AM

Tell him about homeostasis, Musket. I can't because I don't read his posts.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 16 - 07:11 AM

Someone may eventually post actuarial tables.

As a kid I remember everyone seemed to know somebody killed in a car crash.
Now everyone knows someone who has been shot.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 02:25 AM

Very few people over here know anyone who has been shot. There's a good reason for that.

Not sure what Goofus is asking or why? Certainly as we get an aging population, incidence of oncomortality increases. The biological process is the biological process, I fail to see his point.

Certainly, homeostasis as a concept allows healthy bodies to regulate internal pH values and that is important. An increase in pH may be hostile to viral clusters (antiretrovirals encourage this) but has side effects where naturally occurring acidic antibodies need to thrive. DNA itself has a value less than pH7.

A non oncological example of homeostatic failure that is rather common would be diabetes.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 10:19 AM

The cancer link to acidity is complete bollocks. A healthy body will not allow blood pH to stray outside extremely tight limits (pH 7.35-7.45). Whatever you eat, drink or dose yourself with, your lungs and kidneys work extremely quickly to restore pH to within that narrow range. "Alkali diets" etc. are a waste of time. Quackery. From Cancer Research UK (a bit simplistic and neglecting the role of the lungs):

Some myths about cancer are surprisingly persistent, despite flying in the face of basic biology. One such idea is that overly 'acidic' diets cause your blood to become 'too acidic', which can increase your risk of cancer. Their proposed answer: increase your intake of healthier 'alkaline' foods like green vegetables and fruits (including, paradoxically, lemons).

This is biological nonsense. True, cancer cells can't live in an overly alkaline environment, but neither can any of the other cells in your body.

Blood is usually slightly alkaline. This is tightly regulated by the kidneys within a very narrow and perfectly healthy range. It can't be changed for any meaningful amount of time by what you eat, and any extra acid or alkali is simply peed out in urine.
To maintain the correct balance within the body, your urine can and does change pH, depending on what you've eaten (explained in detail in this post). This can be seen by testing urine pH (acidity) after eating different foods and is the basis of the mistaken belief that diet can "make the body alkaline". But that's all you're changing, and anyone who claims otherwise simply doesn't understand how the body works. [Edited for clarity and extra links, KA 08/08/14]

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 10:59 AM

Bang on Steve. When homeostasis isn't achieved through any of the myriad reasons, a slight increase or decrease in pH of whatever enzyme or other bio agent can occur but as the quote indicates, renal control of blood means a very slight overall alkalinity in healthy adults. Viral conditions treated with antiretrovirals increase this slightly more, but within haemo limits.

Goofus seemed to be confusing himself. The Cancer Research quote you gave is adequate, although some of the latest drugs indicate the pH of blood and by proxy therefore most chemicals in the body can tolerate and be happy with pushing the pH tolerance. We live in exciting times with regard to our knowledge and early control of cancers.

My own take is that Cancer Research's "together we can beat it" slogan is ill judged and as it takes more than a positive outlook, devastating for those who are left thinking they didn't try hard enough themselves.

Cancer may be the biggest killer in the western world but that is an indication that healthy lifestyle and access to drugs that stave off cardiovascular problems are working. We have to go some time and if nothing else works, cancer will get there. It has to or immortality would not be a dream.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 11:31 AM

Alkaline Food Bunk
There is lots of bluster on the Internet about "acidic" and "alkaline" foods usually based on some story that cancer cells can only survive in an acid environment and it is therefore advisable to eat "alkaline foods" and drink "alkaline water." The fact is that the only body fluid that can change its pH, or level of acidity, in any significant way in response to food intake is the urine. "Alkaline" water consumption has no effect at all. Of course this may not be the impression you get by watching infomercials on late night TV or cruising the web. You'll get the idea that various diseases are caused by "acidic blood" and you'll be pointed towards devices that manufacture alkaline water to neutralize the excess acid. This is total nonsense. Drinking alkaline water does not change the pH of the blood. The blood is a buffer system, meaning that the pH is maintained at about 7.4 with very little variation. Indeed, a drop or elevation of 0.4 units is a potentially lethal condition. Any excess base in the blood is quickly neutralized by carbonic acid which is generated by inhaling carbon dioxide and excess acid is neutralized by the release of calcium from bones.

It is true that certain foods can have an acid or alkaline residue as determined by burning the food to an ash. This basically is a function of the mineral content of the food. The presence of calcium, for example, leads to an alkaline residue whereas sulphur, found extensively in proteins, renders the food acidic. That's because sulphur is oxidized and becomes sulfuric acid. Such basicity or acidity has no relevance to the blood, which is buffered, but can alter the pH of the urine. Minerals are eliminated from the body through the urine which is not a buffered system. Chlorine, phosphorous and sulphur in food lead to acidic residue. Breads, cereals, eggs, fish, meat and poultry fall into this category. Contrary to what people may think, citric acid does not fall into the acid category. It is completely metabolized by the body. On the other hand, cranberries do contain an acid that is not metabolized and passes into the urine. When is such knowledge of any importance? When someone suffers from kidney stones composed of calcium and magnesium phosphates, carbonates or oxalates which are formed under alkaline conditions, a diet resulting in an acid urine may help since these salts dissolve under acidic conditions. Uric acid and cystine stones are formed under acidic conditions and an alkaline residue diet is preferred. Most fruits and vegetables produce an alkaline ash but corn and lentils are acid forming. None of these problems can be solved by drinking alkaline water. Machines which claim to generate water to treat disease by changing the acidity of the blood are a total scam.

Joe Schwarcz

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 12:01 PM

Hey musket my friend, can you help me get rid of a pain in the ass Republican candidate
I tried advil but it keeps coming back in my back side

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 12:33 PM

GfS this is for you: On the reception and detection of pseudo-profound bullshit from: Judgment and Decision Making, Vol. 10, No. 6, November 2015, pp. 549–563

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 12:41 PM

Ah, good old popular science purveyor Joe Schwarcz pops up again   Apart from his chemistry being decidedly shaky, we have this gem:

Any excess base in the blood is quickly neutralized by carbonic acid which is generated by inhaling carbon dioxide and excess acid is neutralized by the release of calcium from bones.

Inhaling carbon dioxide? The carbon dioxide component of air is less than 0.04%. You'd never make it in time. Far better to utilise your own carbon dioxide production for the purpose, eh, Guest? Excess acidity is counteracted by an increase in carbon dioxide exhalation. Losing bone calcium for this reason only happens in cases of serious underlying disorders. Perhaps Doc Musket could flesh that one out. We don't want to be turning into rubber people, do we?

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 02:36 PM

Not strong enough Dan

It has to be diamorphine. We'll start you on 15mg and up it if Trump becomes the official candidate, we can wean you back off it because laughter is the best medicine.

Steve. Quackery can occasionally inadvertently coincide with what goes on in practice and that's all it takes for the bollocks to rise to the surface. The chemistry of biology is not my personal strong point. The general stuff? Back to house jobs to when I was last thinking about such things day in day out. I'll say one thing though, if we spent time debating nonsense, we'd only give it credence.

If you google Ben Goldacre on the subject, I'm sure he had a pop a while ago at herbal medicines linking alkaline properties to cancer busting....

By the way, be careful when talking to Musket. I'm really an ex doctor in that I don't see patients. Musket is a real doctor with real patients and Musket is an ex pit moggy and (in his words) capitalist whore who funnily enough seems to make more sense of NHS governance than any of the talking heads, me included.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 03:03 PM

My own executive decision has been made.

Go ahead and nix two species of mosquitos forever.

The void will be filled by the Tiger mosquito which are too fast for humans to kill.

I considered adding the deer tick to the execution block even before I read that old dude has a soft spot for them. This strange synchronicity of thinking about the deer tick is probably just the emerging season of Lyme disease which BTW is most related to the Syphilis Spirochete.

Subject: RE: BS: who is the biggest killer in the world?
From: olddude
Date: 02 Mar 16 - 07:45 PM

Fair enough, thanks musket