|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 16 - 02:06 PM I wonder how many African immigrants fell foul of the Black Act by mistake!!! |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Jack Campin Date: 05 Sep 16 - 10:49 AM 2. Blacking up as a disguise was banned by act of parliament in the 1700's so there is hard historical evidence that it was a recognised practice The ban did not relate to dancing, but blacking up as camouflage (from the gamekeeper, not the prey) when hunting. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 05 Sep 16 - 09:56 AM So the "Black Act" of 2016 will introduce punishment for "being at a Folk Festival with a blacked up face!!!! |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: punkfolkrocker Date: 05 Sep 16 - 06:56 AM At least the west country Carnivals, most notably Bridgwater, made no rationalisations, justifications, or excuses for decades of blatantly racist blacking up. It was simply a culturally acceptable manifestation of the inherent racist norm of the era. I can't vouch if it has completely disappeared from carnival floats in this hopefully more enlightened 21st Century, as last time I watched it about 15 years ago I froze my bollocks off standing in the cruel winter rain and wind, and haven't bothered since... I've a vague memory they might still have been dressing up as 'comedy pantomime' china men and mexicans...??? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Stephen Foster's auntie Date: 05 Sep 16 - 06:33 AM Just responding to some "facts": "1. Border Morris has absolutely nothing whatsoever in common with Minstrelsy, although it would appear that Les in Chorlton is not clever enough to notice the difference as he keeps asking the question! To hopefully make it clear for Les, when did you last see a minstrel with a top hat decorated with pheasant feathers, wearing a tatter jacket and bell pads!" In fact, the repertoire and instruments used in Minstrelsy heavily influenced historic border morris. And in Shropshire there is historical evidence that it was known as "going niggering". "2. Blacking up as a disguise was banned by act of parliament in the 1700's so there is hard historical evidence that it was a recognised practice" Blacking up used by poachers is not the same as people blacking up to dance. Conflating the two things is fallacious academic practice. When Sharp was collecting morris dancing at the turn of the 20th century, he only came across two sides who were blacking up at that time; one would have been Bacup. So if we're being selective about evidence, one could argue that blacking up was never a significant factor in morris. This would be an equally fallacious conclusion to draw without further evidence, but you see how this works. "3. Morris is NOT sinister or pagan, earliest records of morris are 16th Century, and Suffolk diarist John Oakes records the morris men getting an allowance for bells from the parish church. Even what may appear to some to be a pagan dance, the Abbots Bromley Horn Dance, the horns are traditionally kept in the parish church, and blessed in and out!" While it's true that morris is neither sinister nor pagan, anyone who has seen the real Abbotts Bromley (as opposed to the "woo-woo" iterations) will know that it doesn't feel particularly pagan when they're prancing about to Isle of Capri. Also the practice of keeping the horns in the church is relatively recent - they used to be kept in the pub on the square. "4. Blacking up is very obviously not an attempt at caricature. The face paint is just part of an elaborate kit, and at the end of the day, black is just the colour of the paint." Blacking up NOW may not be an attempt at caricature, but there are very definite sources to link historic border morris with minstrelsy. The question is why so many dancers stubbornly refuse to acknowledge this link if they feel that what they're doing is okay. If you're going to "educate" those watching about the history of your tradition, you have to own *all* of that history. Not (ha!) whitewash the inconvenient bits. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Gardham Date: 04 Sep 16 - 04:51 PM Thanks, Les That Wikipedia article covers just about all of it. The last paragraph 'modern misinterpretations' is particularly useful. I like the final sentence which suggests that all of the influences on blacking up were probably relevant at different times in its evolution. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Linden Date: 04 Sep 16 - 04:17 PM Mac Donalds? I'll have a hung, drawn and quartered pounder, please, hold the pickle |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,For it is he Date: 04 Sep 16 - 02:38 PM Mr Red exacerbates the silliness here by declaring what is folk and what isn't. No chance of a grown up conversation when those organising what looks like a cracking lineup get tarred by those who get precious about their own misguided genre constraints. As to the blacking up, most posts that cut through the crap, not just mine, mysteriously disappear. Since when did the land of Big Mac and Trump understand British traditions? Oh, they don't. Hence "moderating" perfectly reasonable posts. Is there an equivalent of Mudcat that is mature enough to actually discuss such interesting matters without juvenile moderation by confused foreigners? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: punkfolkrocker Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:54 PM If the historical & cultural evidence is convincing enough, hasn't any sensible credible person yet made formal approach to FRESh to try to convince them to reappraise their understanding and actions on this particular morris issue...??? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Vic Smith Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:41 PM Just to establish some facts.......Blacking up as a disguise was banned by act of parliament in the 1700's so there is hard historical evidence that it was a recognised practice This is an interesting statement and I never seen reference to this legislation before. Googling it suggests the GUEST poster is referring to the Black Act passed by Parliament on 26 April 1723. Wikipedia tells us that this act was designed as a counter-measure to:- the Blacks [who]gained their name from their habit of blacking their faces when undertaking poaching raids. They quickly demonstrated both "a calculated programme of action, and a conscious social resentment", and their activities led to the introduction of the Black Act to Parliament on 26 April 1723; it came into force on 27 May. The Act introduced the death penalty for over 50 criminal offences, including being found in a forest while disguised, and "no other single statute passed during the eighteenth century equalled [the Black Act] in severity, and none appointed the punishment of death in so many cases". Following a criminal law reform campaign in the early 19th century, it was largely repealed on 8 July 1823, when a reform bill introduced by Robert Peel came into force. The societies of Bonfire Boys in my home town of Lewes all have a "Smugglers" section in their parades. Each member of that section will wear identical costumes - striped jumpers, blacked faces and identical caps pulled low over the forehead. These celebrate the various smugglers gangs which were very widespread in 18th century Sussex and for they dressed this way to facilitate disguise and to prevent individual identification. Those who benefited from poaching and smuggling were found in every class of society and the "Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by." attitude is well identified in Kipling's famous poem. It seems entirely likely that there is blacked up morris was influenced by Mistrelsy after 1840 but is seems at least equally likely that dancers were influenced by the popular "criminals" who brought some sort of relief, employment and satisfaction at least 120 years previously. The suggestion that black-faced dancers preceded the 1840 tour by the first American Minstrel parties seems to be very strong. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 Sep 16 - 01:37 PM Thanks to MrSnail for this - give it a read if you ahve time: Wiki is helpful Best wishes |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Mr Red Date: 04 Sep 16 - 12:51 PM Shrewsbury Festival are trying to distance themselves from Folk. They want to be as big as Cambridge or Cropedy. Look at the headline acts. They have to book acts that are not Folk. And (as with Glastonbury) they will USE the word Folk until it interferes with the attracting of the wider public. Hence the pandering to "white middle class liberals". Whatever they say (well they would, wouldn't they), they are in it for business. Their Folk pedigree is illusory, their business is glamping but the festival might be more lucrative. The organisers don't use their real names in this parish either - read carefully. I welcome the face painting we see today, it is fashion, it is living tradition, it is evolution, it is FUN. But we have to hold on to some legacy. I suspect some of these "white middle class liberals" are history graduates who know nothing of the history of the people. Common working man is not "white middle class liberal" enough. Blacking-up has many roots; mimicing athletic tumblers (Morresque) from the near east/India, hiding identities so farmers (etc) don't recognise them at hiring fairs, disguise when begging at Xmas & Easter. Pick a century and add more reasons. The solution here is simple. Don't go to Shrewsbury! Towersey has better dancing - I can vouch for it. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: selby Date: 04 Sep 16 - 10:14 AM There aré lots of references here about how this issue affects border Morris. There are other traditions that black up for their reasons is it just border Morris sides the ban is on or all Morris's sides that have there own traditions steeped in history Keith |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Backwoodsman Date: 04 Sep 16 - 09:15 AM So...those who support blacked-up BM are 'biased', but those who are against it on the grounds of some imaginary 'offence' that 'might' be caused because it 'might' be linked to minstrelsy (for which they can provide no real, solid evidence, and even though those who have studied BM history and support it give clear evidence that it's a relic of historical disguising to avoid being identified), aren't? What strange, topsy-turvy, illogical thought-processes some people have. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Steve Gardham Date: 04 Sep 16 - 09:08 AM Hi Tim I agree posters should give some indication of who they are, but he/she is laying the glove down basically and challenging someone to come up with ANY evidence that border morris specifically is related in some way to minstrelsy. I know of several seasonal customs involving dance that are directly connected to minstrelsy but I have no evidence personally to link border morris. In view of the difficulties being described here would it not be enough for those customs/teams not linked to minstrelsy to carry with them a sandwich board stating that? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: RTim Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:40 PM And Guest:Guest - it would be a "Fact" to state who you are and why you are so biased. And it again - doesn't matter what you think - it is about what others think! Tim Radford |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Guest Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:32 PM Just to establish some facts, 1. Border Morris has absolutely nothing whatsoever in common with Minstrelsy, although it would appear that Les in Chorlton is not clever enough to notice the difference as he keeps asking the question! To hopefully make it clear for Les, when did you last see a minstrel with a top hat decorated with pheasant feathers, wearing a tatter jacket and bell pads! 2. Blacking up as a disguise was banned by act of parliament in the 1700's so there is hard historical evidence that it was a recognised practice 3. Morris is NOT sinister or pagan, earliest records of morris are 16th Century, and Suffolk diarist John Oakes records the morris men getting an allowance for bells from the parish church. Even what may appear to some to be a pagan dance, the Abbots Bromley Horn Dance, the horns are traditionally kept in the parish church, and blessed in and out! 4. Blacking up is very obviously not an attempt at caricature. The face paint is just part of an elaborate kit, and at the end of the day, black is just the colour of the paint. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Bonzo3legs Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:22 PM Not me squire! |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Sep 16 - 01:30 PM So it's fair to consider that if it wasn't for old reactionary die hards like bonzo there might not be so much need for zealously interfering zero tolerance activist campaigning equalities agencies like FRESh...??? It's your fault bonz... you got the morris black face make up banned...!!!!! 😜 |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Morris-ey Date: 03 Sep 16 - 12:09 PM I suspect they won't, but I doubt they know this forum exists. Why not post your considered response on their website? You might also like to do the same on the Shrewsbury FF site too... |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Bonzo3legs Date: 03 Sep 16 - 10:41 AM Never actually hear of these idiots called FRESh before, they can fuck off. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge Date: 03 Sep 16 - 07:08 AM I `ad one of those Pig Dyke Molly dancers in my cab the other day. I recognised `im by `is clobber and make up. `e looked just like one of those Bassett`s Liquorice Allsorts. I said, "Are you a whitey blacked up or are you a blackie whited up `cos there`s a lot of concern on that Mudcat about dancing and "guising" at the moment? `e said, "It really don`t matter Jim. We reckon we`re a pretty democratic lot but we `ave `ad our problems." I said, "Go on. What`s that then?" `e said, "On of our lot once got mistaken for a zebra crossing and the crowd walked all over `im!!" Whaddam I Like?? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 03 Sep 16 - 06:46 AM To be clear I mean a feeling of superiority in those who are doing the speaking for others. If the people who are offended really are unable to speak out for themselves then we have a bigger problem than a few blacked up dancers. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 03 Sep 16 - 06:41 AM A largely white organisation (FRESh) taking it on itself to speak for people who are capable of speaking for themselves (black people) seems rather paternalistic. Paternalism implies an element of superiority... |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: BobL Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:00 AM "On the waist is fine, AFAIC" Fine for those who, unlike myself, still have waists... |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 03 Sep 16 - 03:44 AM Well, my husband got back safely from Africa on Thursday, and I explained this thread to him. He's a bit timid writing in English but has asked me to post that he is very sad that people should think a black person would mind border Morris dancers being blacked up. He says he adores the Morris dancing and over the years has had so many photos taken, and he would like to say 'please don't worry or get upset, because there is no racism in Morris dancing'. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Backwoodsman Date: 03 Sep 16 - 03:31 AM LOL! |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: punkfolkrocker Date: 03 Sep 16 - 03:08 AM bah.... bellocks to spolling and carrect grommar...!!! 🎓 Btw.. it's hilarious to see the usual sorts getting their knickers in a twist moaning about pc gone mad... Our local cultural heritage is the west country carnival scene.. an over the top traditional folk custom celebrating popular culture of the here and now...??? I can't find any published statements regarding what is no longer acceptable for Carnival Float presentations.. or comment first hand, because I aint been arsed standing out in the winter cold wind and rain to watch it all drive past for several years But a mainstay for many decades was pissed up young thug farmers blacking up as B&W minstrels, golliwogs, cannibals and zulus... 🙄 |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Backwoodsman Date: 03 Sep 16 - 01:33 AM Or even breathe! Breath is what we breathe, pfr! I have to say that I'm not fond of seeing saggy trousers displaying either arse-crack or dirty-looking shreddies. But, equally, I'm not a fan of tit-trousers either. On the waist is fine, AFAIC, and comfortable too. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 Sep 16 - 04:09 PM Then as some here might affectionately observe, there is a 'tribal culture' of white old fogies/folkies whose trousers and pants are pulled up far too high and tight.. they could do with loosening their belts and braces just a bit..... 😜 .. let it all swing and breath... |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Bonzo3legs Date: 02 Sep 16 - 03:49 PM "The black kids at Heights High whose pants show half their underpants make me want to tell them to pull their pants up"= absolutely bloody right, scruffy urchins. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: CupOfTea Date: 02 Sep 16 - 02:31 PM As a white, female, American who can't dance anything anymore, I have no dog in this fight. But as someone who grapples every day with how to interact in a multi-racial society with various age groups who are likely to have different takes on perceptions of race, I can sympathise with both those who are exasperated and those who are offended. As a liberal, living in an agressively "socially aware" suburb I have rolled my eyes at suggestions that it is racist of me to think of characterizing any sector of the black populous as having a particular characteristic, unless it is an expression of praise. Thus: "The black kids at Heights High whose pants show half their underpants make me want to tell them to pull their pants up"= oh bad, very bad " I love the call and response type of singing that happens with hymns in black churches" = just fine on the PC scale In the first case, this is seen as racist by some of the youth, but black moms of my generation are likely to chime in with "amen" What is considered offensive - or perhaps more accurately, what people feel free to say is offensive - evolves with generations. There are also people of all categories and ethnicities who excel at what I see as the Olympic level sport of taking umbrage. It sounds like this situation has a bit of both. I am willing to go the extra distance in trying to avoid that which divides us. Sometimes I feel self conscious and a bit goofy for doing it. Since having a conversation with a batch of church friends talking about white folk crossing the street in fear of a black guy, I consciously greet with eye contact, smile, hello. Those who take umbrage where no insult is meant have often caused me to feel like I have to prove I'm not a racist. But this is on a par with the absurd lengths we have to go to show we're not a pedophile or abuser in order to work with children. You have to constantly be on guard and aren't supposed to hug the wee child weeping in front of you. (Diocese of Cleveland VIRTUS training) It is a different century, and traditions evolve, and not always as we'd want them to, and some of the ones we wish could change, won't. Joanne in Cleveland |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: punkfolkrocker Date: 02 Sep 16 - 12:37 PM if they want to black up parts of their anatomy and jump up and down with bells tightly leather strapped to their appendages in the privacy of their own homes, that's up to them and their spouses... consenting adults and all that... But no matter what colour make up is applied, a pasty flabby white man is still a pasty flabby white man... 👴🏻 |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 02 Sep 16 - 08:06 AM Err.. Bell ringers, not campanologists. We call ourselves bell ringers. Tsk |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: TheSnail Date: 01 Sep 16 - 01:10 PM It might help if people had a read throgh this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Morris Interestingly, while looking for that, I also found this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajji_Firuz |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Les in Chorlton Date: 01 Sep 16 - 12:01 PM Border Morris dance some dances they have made up, to tunes that were almost certainly never used for morris and on instruments sometimes invented in the 20C. They wear costumes sometimes unrelated to the custom they claim to be reviving. But they hang on to the bit of tradition that has one foot in 19C music hall racism. I don't think those who dance Border are racists. The question within the "Morris community" is are they respecting their own history and origins in completely ignoring the contribution made from Minstrelsy. Best wishes |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Vic Smith Date: 01 Sep 16 - 11:31 AM these alternatives preserve the element of blacking, while avoiding any implied racial mimicry, stereotyping or disrespect. Could I put in a mention for the superb Pig Dyke Molly? Firstly for the excellent and inventive quality of their dancing, then for the tight precision of their high quality musicians, the fine showmanship of any of their dance stands but also (and here is what is relevant to this thread) the thought and execution that goes into their costumes and face painting. This page from their website shows photos of their displays for 2016, all as they say, in "glorious black and white". Surely this would met the Shrewsbury requirements (even if they have not already appeared there). <><><><><><><> A slightly more worrying aspect is that the Shrewsbury statement (linked to above) was brought about because - the festival was accused of racial harassment and threatened with legal action by an organisation called FRESH I would have thought that an accusation of "racial harassment" was putting it too high. The fear of 'legal action' seems to have been behind this Shropshire statement. Did the organisation Fairness, Respect & Equality in Shropshire go to the police or the Institute of Race Relations with their concerns about what was happening at this folk festival or are we to regard this self-appointed body as the arbiters of what constitutes "racial harrasment"? Does anyone know the sequence of what happened? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,In good company Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:35 AM By way of a little light relief I was reminded of Cumbawamba's response to having traditions hijacked. Have a listen. :-) Beats any response I could have made :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Snuffy Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:25 AM It appears that using black on the face is not, in itself, the problem. That link from Shrewsbury Festival says that it will not book sides using "full face black make up", but is happy with "other forms of colour and disguise" So presumably the festival has no problem with sides that apply black to only some parts of the face (rather like military camouflage), nor with sides that use black and one or more other colours. Both these alternatives preserve the element of blacking, while avoiding any implied racial mimicry, stereotyping or disrespect. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,In good company Date: 01 Sep 16 - 10:20 AM Thanks for the link, Guest 01 Sep 16 - 08:29 AM. The festival statement makes perfect sense to me and shows no indication of the 'PC gone mad' that they are being accused of. In answer to your question, the flag of St George cannot, in my opinion, be used to parody or ridicule anyone. As we all know St George himself is a mysterious figure of indefinite but probably middle-eastern origin who is the patron saint of many other countries and things than England. See this Wiki entry to confirm. It is a symbol, nothing more, while blacking up can be open to interpretation as parody. We have, as ever, to be sensible with these things and where we draw the line. That it is a traditional pastime is, in my opinion, a poor argument. Bare knuckle fighting and bear baiting were once traditional pastimes and someone know where to draw the line then. Surely we are just as sensible as our own ancestors? D. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:29 AM Given the thread subject why has no-one linked to http://shrewsburyfolkfestival.co.uk/statement-re-decision-to-phase-out-morris-te Or did I miss it in a clicky? How about extending the banning things because racists have adopted them to include the flag of St George? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Howard Jones Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:26 AM Les, I can't speak for border morris. For myself, I accept that minstrelsy had some effect on morris but not that it was the "most significant" effect. If it had been, I think other traditions such as Cotswold would also have taken it up. My interpretation is that it was those traditions which already blacked up which added aspects from minstrelsy, but that it was not the reason for them blacking up, and that aspect of it died out many decades ago, as did minstrelsy itself. (I know people are fond of referring to the Black and White Minstrel Show, but this was an intentionally nostalgic programme and no more indicates a survival of minstrelsy into the 1960s than the Good Old Days did of music hall). I came across some earlier references for one of the earlier discussions on this topic but I'm not going looking for them now. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:20 AM Bloody crazy, political corrrectness at it's most insane. Morris men blacking up as in this case has nothing at all to do with race! It was no surprise at all to me that the main spokesman of this barmy org is a typical upper class WHITE man. What on earth next, morrismen/women can't wear bells for fear it upsets campomologists! AAArrrrrgh |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Vic Smith Date: 01 Sep 16 - 07:19 AM It wasn't like that at all, Vic Smith. It was merely spreading out to a wider audience and EDUCATING some of our disenfranchised indigenous British citizens that were unaware of their roots, and tradition; the value of their own culture, instead of mere imported, and other mass media 'entertainments'. Ah! Now, that must have been a point that I somehow missed... their mission was to spread information! They had a gently didactic programme of action! I must say that methodology strikes me as something less the educative. When that particular form of fascism went into its own minor civil war, a lot more information came to light from their dissidents than merely their membership list. A lot more of it came my way. Would you like me share the instructions that were given to their appointed "attack dogs"? The discussions on the methods that these people were to use on those, including myself, who thought that the sort of "education" they were proposing was not beneficial to the folk scene? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Vic Smith Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:59 AM Three points arising from some of the interesting contributions to this thread. - 1] 1840 and the first visit of the Ethiopian Serenaders is quite significant date. Let's look at a few significant events before that - * 1792 Burns song/poem The Slave's Lament was published and had a huge impact on thinking. That Africans had the same feelings, fears, sense of loss etc. was revolutionary at that time. Burns was seen as the friend of humanity and an enemy of injustice or oppression and part of a growing movement particularly strong amongst Quakers and some other non-conformist churches * 1807, the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act although Wilberforce had been campaigning about this for decades and first introduced an act in 1789 on the subject. His earlier efforts failed to get a majority. * The next big step was in 1833 the Abolition of Slavery bill (in the British Empire) was passed - 3 days before Wilberforce died. Great! British people had been in the forefront of Abolitionist thinking and action - but there was still a heavy residual guilt. Much of Britain's economy was still dependent on the existance of slavery. How many jobs existed because the the import of slave produced raw sugar, cotton etc. etc? When the American minstrel shows came to the UK from 1840 with their message of the 'happy slave' it was just what the public needed to assuage this guilt. Decades ago I interviewed or spoke informally to many surviving old singers and musicians. Many of them remembered blacking up to sing in village concerts. 2] Some discussion has taken place about the existence of black faced dancers before the coming of Minstrelsy. 1840 could also be given as a date for the arrival of the popular press and photography in this country. Any social historian will tell you that any research to gain reliable information becomes much more difficult. As far as morris sides are concerned, it is difficult to establish just how widespread this was, never mind what music, costumes. dance figures were, never mind whether dancers blacked up or not. 3] This point is on a more personal level. As both a mummer and a morris man in my younger days, I have been challenged to think about things associated with it. Here are two questions that I asked myself. What is your attitude towards black-faced dancers? Still fairly relaxed. Would you ever black-up yourself? I never have and I never would. |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:31 AM " began a campaign by an extreme right wing British political party to infiltrate the folk song and dance scene and subvert our traditional music and song and claim our cultural heritage as a tool of their vile and warped processes. " It wasn't like that at all, Vic Smith. It was merely spreading out to a wider audience and EDUCATING some of our disenfranchised indigenous British citizens that were unaware of their roots, and tradition; the value of their own culture, instead of mere imported, and other mass media 'entertainments' . Folk music (and it's enthusiasts) and Morris dancing have long been the butt of crass jokes, as portrayed in the common Media. I can see their point of view, with a Folk following usually identified by it's typical stereotypes. I do not class myself as a Folkie. Or maybe Shrewsbury FF stance will bring about a new breed a FRESh-faced[sic] stylee, and the re-emergence of; Cotswold dancing ?? |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,Mark Stevens Date: 01 Sep 16 - 06:09 AM "a few of them see it as an opportunity to express contempt for racial minorities.." I frankly just don't believe this. We've been to no end of Morris festivals over the years, in many places, and must have watched dozens and dozens of different blacked-up sides, both Border and Molly. My husband always tries to get photos of himself, posed with groups of various types of Morris, for his collection. No-one has ever edged away, been frosty, looked askance or uttered anything racist or discouraging. On the contrary, they have hugged him, laughed with him, plonked their hats on his head for the photos, and invited him to dance so I can take some pictures. Many now recognise him from previous visits (he always wears his Ivorian costume) I feel most indignant on their behalf that anyone could suggest there is racism among blacked-up sides. Morris folk are the most friendly, open and charming people you could ever meet. Hear, hear .. :-) x |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: GUEST,In good company Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:59 AM Point taken, Howard. I was just continuing the earlier usage but I shall use the term blacked up in this context from now on. However, I think that a lot of people may be missing the point I, and others, are trying to make. Whether it is in fact racist or not is irrelevant. The fact remains that some people will see it as racist and, for their own purposes, they will use the tradition to make a racist statement. Going back to Vic's point about the tradition being hijacked a certain organisation, including someone posting on here, to push a racist agenda is very important and now that race hate seems to be on the increase it is even more so. Anyone removing an excuse for racist thugs to press their agenda is, to my mind, doing a good thing. D |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Les in Chorlton Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:50 AM Thanks Howard, do you accept that the most significant effect on Border was Minstrelsy? I repeat the question - will Border Morris acknowledge the historical link to Minstrelsy? If not why not? "A possible explanation is that minstrelsy was most easily tacked onto those customs, such as Border morris, which already had a tradition of blacking up, rather than minstrelsy being the cause of it." Intrestin point, do you have the source of the evidence for blacking up in Border before the days of Minstrelsy? "and especially one where people are quick to form opinions without bothering to understand the reasons" I suggest the Morris community are just a little guilty of this don't you? The EFDSS are staging a conference to explore the history of Morris Dancing and in the rigorous practice of academia the have issued a " Call for papers". This may through some light on something or other although if morris websites are anything to go by historical evidence is the last thing they will find. Sorry you missed us Dave - still in the dulcimer every Tuesday - chucked out of the Beech some years ago. Best wishes |
|
Subject: RE: Shrewsbury FF to ban 'blacked up' Morris From: Howard Jones Date: 01 Sep 16 - 05:17 AM Can we please stop using the term "blackface"? This has a specific meaning to describe a form of theatrical makeup used by non-Black performers to represent a black person, and as a shorthand for minstrelsy. I have never seen a morris dancer in blackface. The fact is, we don't know the origins of blacking-up in English folk traditions. There is some sparse evidence that it pre-dates the minstrel craze. However minstrelsy was such a widespread and long-lasting phenomenon that it would be remarkable if it had not had some influence on morris and other customs. Nevertheless, Cotswold morris did not adopt blacking-up, although a few minstrel tunes came into the repertoire. A possible explanation is that minstrelsy was most easily tacked onto those customs, such as Border morris, which already had a tradition of blacking up, rather than minstrelsy being the cause of it. What we seem to have is a long-established custom of blacking up for reasons of disguise, which for a period of time also adopted other elements from popular culture which today we regard as racist. However that ended 60 or 70 years ago, and certainly played no part in the modern revival which itself is now several decades old. I wonder why we are now putting such an emphasis on this particular aspect, when the real question is how we can maintain the tradition in today's society where some may perceive it as being racist (although even FRESh seems to agree it is not) Personally, I don't think other colours or patterns have quite the dramatic impact of black, neither are they quite as effective as a disguise. I think it would be regrettable if blacking up were to be lost, although I recognise that in today's multicultural society, and especially one where people are quick to form opinions without bothering to understand the reasons, it is probably inevitable. What I find disappointing is that a prominent folk festival and even the EFDSS are not taking a more nuanced approach to explain and defend the tradition. By not doing so they are simply reinforcing the incorrect assumption that it is racist. |
| Share Thread: |
