BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 04:57 AM

Another take on the Dunning-Kruger effect is a quote I heard from a professional skeptic (not James Randi but similar)

And who of us are immune from the pitfall? (apart from me of course!)

"People do not scrutinise that which they are glad to hear"

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 03:16 AM

Ah, whether the voters like Bernie or not is basically immaterial if the establishment hate all he stands for.
They undermined him in the most despicable fashion and now the voters have swept it all under the carpet in their campaign to get rid of the legally and democratically elected President.

I find it truly amazing that "liberals" would dream of supporting someone who advocated a return to a Cold War stance against Russia, the things Mr McGrath is saying are exactly the things I was saying throughout the election campaign......nobody was listening then, they were all focused on winning the election, manipulated by the Party machine and the Media.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 09:37 PM

The Democratic Party machine presumably did its best to promote Clinton over Sanders, Well, it would, wouldn't it.

Democratic voters here like Bernie, but his promises and policies are the political equivalent of pie in the sky. It was clear that he wasn't going to be able to get any of those things through the House and Senate. Hillary is more of a pragmatist, and was more likely to make some forward progress, particularly in making important adjustments to the Affordable Care Act.

Thanks, Steve. The bullshit that Ake spouts is filtered through his attitude of extreme adequacy. It blinds him to what people are actually saying and doing.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 09:17 PM

Kevin I was reading one of your posts but I was under the impression it was an Ake post and thought to myself "well that is a remarkable turn around. That's the most intelligent thing you have said... oh wait a minute".

I wish my fellow Americans understood at least the method and means of the Trump Russia collusion. I wished they simply cared :@

If I mentioned autobots they would envision the movie Transformers.
However they will understand quid quo pro.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:40 PM

I wonder, Kevin, if the folks who voted for the Green party candidate now see that as a stupid mistake - since if those votes had gone to Clinton, she would have won handily.

As for Bernie, if voting for Clinton was good enough for HIM - as it was - that should have been plenty good enough for his supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 06:23 PM

The Democratic Party machine presumably did its best to promote Clinton over Sanders, Well, it would, wouldn't it.

But that wasn't what settled things. The actual decision was primarily made by individual party supporters and members, One which I suggest many people who opted for Clinton rather than Sanders may already see as a stupid mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:49 PM

Don't let him get to you, Acme. Everybody here bar a few lunatics knows that he's a confounded idiot. I apologise for him, once again, on behalf of the whole United Kingdom.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:25 PM

Is there anyone here who sincerely doubts there is a cyber-info-war being waged by Russia upon the US?

From the little I know hacking entered a new era soon after our STUXNET was altered by Israel and left the US with its ass hanging out.

The full strength of the Russian hacking system was put in place to defeat Hillary. Later Putin vowed to retaliate when Obama added sanctions against Russia closing two properties and evicted 22 Russians from the US. How far this will go we don't know.

We seem to be beyond deniability now but Russia being Russia denies everything on principle.

Still I am wondering if folks here would deny if there is an Infowar.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:00 PM

AKE
In the company your link report receives a confidence rating of WAG and RIP

'wild assed guess' and 'Russian intelligence probe'

WAG is the lowest rating they give.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:37 PM

An alternative view on Bobad's Link. US leaks

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:19 PM

Where you come up with this nonsense. . . oh, that's right, living and voting in the U.S. [not].

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:15 PM

Mr McGrath the selection of Mrs Clinton was nothing to do with stupidity, The Democratic Party and the US political establishment actively work against the nomination of Mr Sanders, I agree with you that he would probably have won the election, but that frightened the establishment even more than the possibility of a Donal-John victory!

I am sure that they were well aware that A Trump Presidency could be much more easily undermined than that of a popular "socialist".

The real enemy is not Mr Sanders or DJ, but the unholy alliance of Republicans and Democrats to dominate the US political system.
The same old story, "Good cop, Bad cop" divide and conquer.

The West needs to re-evaluate its position and provide a new vision for the future......Hint, it will contain very little of the "liberal" smoke and mirrors which have brought us to this pass.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 04:12 PM

Trying to figure out who said what in bobad's post that Greg didn't like. There's this clarification from @Molly MacKew:

Didn't realize this would blow up. Perhaps worth clarifying: this is a threat by the Kremlin against the United States. Against ALL parties.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 03:45 PM

Thanks, Boo, for a great example of fake news from Twatter.

Lol Greg, you sound just like Trump who refers to anything that he doesn't like to hear as fake news. What is italicized in my post is straight out of the (Russian) horse's mouth if you care to seek it out - I did.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 03:45 PM

Saying people have made a mistake is not the same as calling them stupid people. That's true even if you say it was a stupid mistake.

Everybody makes mistakes, some of them are mistakes which in retrospect we will recognise as stupid mistakes. "How can I have been so stupid" is something all of us are liable to find ourselves saying - in fact being able to recognise that is an indication of being intelligent.

Voting for Trump in my opinion was a terrible mistake for those Americans who are likely to be much worse off because of his actions. Choosing Clinton over Sanders was also, I believe, a mistake, both because he would have made a better President than Clinton and because Trump would not have beaten him.

I am sure that there will be many normally sensible Americans who in a few years time will reflect on both votes, and think "How can I have been so stupid? "... There will also of course many Trump voters who will think of at the tax cuts skewed in their favour, and who aren't concerned about the needs of people suffering from health cuts, and cheated of the job opportunities they were promised., and they will be congratluating themselves for their wise choice.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:56 PM

Joe, my unique past is a fact. It is also admittedly hard to believe.

We are in the midst of a great Info war and at this stage it is clearly critical to face hard facts.

We all must ask ourselves , are we helping or hurting our cause?

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:27 PM

Over the last 30 years the US and USSR-Russia have researched psychic phenomena, hypnosis and propaganda techniques. Some bore fruit and some did not.
The two countries diverged in their research some time ago. The CIA was interested in using hypnosis to individually forget and hide things but Russia went big and applied it to mass attitude change.

While the CIA was stuck in the rut of perception is reality, their program grew stale.

Russia went big and made reality change apply to millions at a time.
It was a long held goal for them.

You might say propaganda is propaganda. To the Russians it is a much more serious matter. They even have us questioning truth, the NYT and the reality of a post truth world.


The reason why I went into this field was to avoid repeating the past.
The past being crazy insane fascist people taking over a government.

Our CIA were bad boys all right but they were short sighted bad boys.
It is still hard for them to accept my premise. It would be admitting they were wrong about something from the beginning.

The idea of psychic warfare or the war for the hearts and minds looks much different today than we ever thought it would.

Bottom line...It is happening. We are at war.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:24 PM

I don't think Joe allows himself to be unduly influenced by anyone here. He is definitely his own man, but usually approachable, civil and fair .....I think his post has been misunderstood as censure, when it was in effect a piece of well intentioned advice.

Some of the bitching here has been worse than "fake news" which has existed in the political arena for as long as I have studied politics.
The charges of "stupidity" which have been aimed at other sections of the electorate always come forward when the elite see their pet theories and social mores rejected en masse.
I think Joe is reminding us that abuse is no substitute the harder task of self examination.....why did these "stupid" people vote the way they did?   Why do they deserve to be called "pieces of dirt", ignoramuses? why do we harbour such hatred for one man who is trying to deliver what he promised to his supporters.....one man within a political system which stinks to high heaven, heaves with corruption, have you all gone mad?

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 01:59 PM

good catch bobad. The info war continues.

Jeri, What I have been saying is that even critical thinking is not enough. Roughly 20% of critical thinkers can be compromised by a few mental tricks that include repetition, Neural pathway construction in the brain and altered self perception. It does not have to include believing something they should not, it can be simply ignoring or forgetting something. When I say hypnosis you think what that means to you but it means something very different to me from 50,000 hours of observation.

I am still discovering things I have believed for a lifetime are actually wrong.
I thought E Pluribus Unum meant one of many. There are lots pf humorous examples of this. Not everyone has this humility to seek or find that we are wrong on fundamental things.

To come to a belief we must have it ingrained in such a way that we may also exceed or release ourselves from that belief. It is hard to do regarding things we are "sure of".

That one thinks it is impossible to forget the number seven or color blue reinforces the ability to selectively forget them in the short run. To change a perception in the long run is basically a repetition game.

It is normal to believe critical thinking will protect you from a false POV. Just like it is normal to forget 7 if hypnotized to do so.

Truth changes/evolves/grows like a living thing but lies are often static.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 01:21 PM

Thanks, Boo, for a great example of fake news from Twatter.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: bobad
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 01:05 PM

From Twitter

Molly McKew Verified account
@MollyMcKew

Foreign Policy and Strategy Consultant. Information warfare expert. Writer. [e-mail]
DC. Idaho. Tallinn. Tbilisi.
fiannastrategies.com

Kremlin threatens to leak everything on Obama admin if leaks continue from DC. The rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper

Also, I would like to say that if the practice of leaking information that concerns not only the United States but also Russia, which has become a tradition in Washington in the past few years continues, there will come a day when the media will publish leaks about the things Washington asked us to keep secret, for example, things that happened during President Obama's terms in office. Believe me, this could be very interesting information.

Our American colleagues must decide if they respect the diplomatic procedure, if they keep their word on the arrangements made between us, primarily arrangements made at their own request, or we create a very few nice surprises for each other.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:12 PM

Have to agree with Greg about people believing fake news. The root of the problem, IMO, is that people aren't taught to think critically. They don't care to do that, they're not held responsible, and so the fake shit just gets perpetuated. When EVERYTHING becomes "faith-based", it's going to end up being mostly crap. "HE said it, so I believe it" "I read it in 'The Grumpy Conservative', so it must be true" "The National Incontinent" had an article on how green tea leads to heroin addiction. Who knew?!"

People are happy being stupid, "not my problem". Except it is, because they vote. Trump is their fault, Congress and the Senate are their fault, and I won't be an apologist for ANY of them - especially not the grass-roots idiots who made it all possible. I think that may include people who say "it's not their fault". Although all I can do about it is argue, bitch, and... vote.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:10 PM

Greg do not think punishment will change human perception,

The beatings will continue until morale improves......

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:05 PM

Joe you are a steadfast individual. For 15 years you have taken exception to my original jokes, cartoons, satire and experimental humor. I am sure you were expressing complaints from others but I expect you are personally offended by something more central to our being.

I found my joke well crafted with grains of truth sprinkled throughout. On several occasions I have posted jokes heard on the Bill Mahre Show days before it airs. I don't blame you if you find things that are offensive. Maybe I have it all wrong and you are just a neat freak who wants jokes in the joke thread and recipes in the recipe thread.

I have had people tell me I may only tell jokes about things that only happen to me. I tell them life happens to me.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 11:39 AM

People have always and will always continue to believe unbelievable things.

The phenomena is fascinating and is as used miraculously for profound good as it can be used for evil.

There is a cure. You must learn the habit of running a skepticism scan.
In other words you must hold central to your being a grain of doubt in all things. We can educate modern man to take these precautions. Getting people to accept this mental phenomenon is the hard part. Critical reasoning people always think they are immune and in 75% f situations they might be right.

God save us from the true believer no matter what realm they are from.

Greg do not think punishment will change human perception, wiring or belief. It will change behavior and usually not for the better.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 10:40 AM

Knew of the phenomenon, but not under that name, Mr. Red. Think you've got it in one.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 10:38 AM

Too many people tend to believe [fake news]. And they're not to blame...

They are ABSOLUTELY to blame, Joe, if they choose to believe lies with no factual corroboration and other obvious idiocies. Or are you out to infantilize the entire country?

We need to tell people the truth, and only the truth.

Well, Joe, I think you're taking the wrong person to task on this, considering the posting history of a trio of individuals I could name.

Of course, that's only my opinion - but it's backed up by actual fact.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 05:17 AM

Are you really so thick that you can't see this?
Greg F
have you come across the Dunning-Kruger effect? Ably demonstrated by some posters of this parish.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:16 AM

Donuel sez: "Donald threw a tantrum on Air Force that caused Secret Service to draw their guns. Donald had banned Mexican food on Air Force One that put a crimp on the Plane's menu. Twice he had steak for lunch and then once again the choice was fish or steak during his flight to Wisconsin."
-AND-
ITS A JOKE AKE


You know, Donuel, the joke doesn't work. We really need to argue from facts. "Fake news" doesn't work, no matter what side it comes from. Too many people tend to believe it. And they're not to blame, because they're surrounded by falsehood nowadays.

We need to tell people the truth, and only the truth. That's the only way to win people's trust.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:10 PM

"I don't need any political lessons from someone who suggests that the most important thing in the election is the gender of the victor."
You'd rather give your support to someone who had been show publicly as describing women as available meat whose pussy can be fondled whenever the man feels he needs to!!
Ah well - diff'rent strokes for diff'rent blokes.
"Miss Coulter?"
Still showing respect for the Darlin' of the Klan!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:00 PM

Of course Ake must defend rich man Tump. So what is the final solution for the proletariat and bourgeois? Who is to be punished, Muslims, Democrats, Women, The poor, the near poor??

Even you must know by now the middle class does not exist as an actual socio economic power as they did 30 years ago.

It looks like Flynn needs to lawyer up for conspiracy to kidnap and violate extradition laws. Ex CIA director Woolsey has decided to testify against him.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 06:53 PM

I don't need any political lessons from someone who suggests that the most important thing in the election is the gender of the victor.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 01:51 PM

I includes I would presume almost everyone in this forum.

Your presumptions are faulty. On everything.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Stu
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:39 PM

"I includes I would presume almost everyone in this forum."

So many presumptions presented with so little fact.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:33 PM

Don, I'm afraid I include most of the middle class in the "elite", people who have a temporary stake in the continuance of the status quo. I includes I would presume almost everyone in this forum.

Certainly many times more than the 20,000 you quoted, they are numbered in millions.....didn't you watch them crying on election night with Miss Coulter?

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 12:08 PM

Two things to be going on with.....Détente with Russia is preferable to the Cold War mentality offered by Mrs Clinton.
President Trump wishes to put Americans back to work, stop outsourcing jobs through the globalisation con and stop reliance on cheap immigrant workers to bolster the economy.
This reliance is a "double edged sword", as it leaves behind millions of redundant US workers who must be given some means of existence, while denuding other poorer nations of their best brains and strongest arms.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 11:46 AM

The point about the two-tier society is that when people are excluded and cheated their is always a possibility that their perfectly justifiable anger can be diverted and exploited by demagogues who have objectives completely at variance with their interests.

It's not a new phonemenon, it's happened time and time again. And it's happening now.
The way a democracy can counter this is to always ensure that oeople have the chance to change their minds if they wish to and correct their mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 10:28 AM

the "two tier society" which propelled Donald-John to the Presidency

Um- Ake, your hero Trump is one of the prime architects, supporters, and perpetrators of the "two tier society" which you lament. Ditto his cabinet of billionaire deplorables.

Are you really so thick that you can't see this?

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:47 AM

As I have repeated, once Trump has his own Reichstag fire, all bets are off regarding saving Democracy from the clutches of a Trump like figure from the great violence and loss of life in yet another war to end all wars.

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. Right now he does not have the credibility to pull it off but he may rush headlong into chaos anyway.

If he does, healthcare will be the least of our problems.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 08:31 AM

Ake you are on the brink of knowing what Kari Mark knew. It is a two tiered society by design. We have a handful of families in the US with as much wealth as all the rest of the people in America. Yes we have built islands of poverty which concentrate the poor by the banks and feel the might of the police, justice system and even the National Guard to control the violence born of oppression. They are our ghettos.
We built them and bypassed them. Yes they are scary. In America they were built for racist reasons. A colony inside a nation.

The poor are still consumers and act like an engine to capitalize the rich. There are newer more profitable engines of wealth that have evolved which use capital itself to create virtual money. Flash trades, hedge, bundled securities etc. These methods create and make nothing except more virtual money for the rich. Still the fundamentals of lying cheating and stealing apply..

Yes a new ideology is needed but for now the rich con man and corporation capture the imagination of the poor which is anathema to their own self interest.

We can dream of a utopia but the need and greed pf a sociopathic wealthy class will spend half their fortune to keep the current system. Still the power of 7 billion people to 20,000 wealthy elite need to compromise. Can we do it without killing ourselves and the Earth?

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 07:44 AM

Given Trump's latest Obamacare fiasco, surely it's a matter of time before he is forced to hang up his boots and take a (Golden) shower
How long can this farce continue?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 03:45 AM

"It would be interesting if someone would actually address my point about the "two tier society""
Bit of a nerve from someone who refuses to justify his support for this political thug and ignores every piece of erratic and repressive extremist act hi is single-handedly attempting to push through.
Trump has no interest in changing society - only in milking it for his own personal interests and gratification - he is a businessman who is attempting to turn the presidency into a business asset as he did with his CHARITIES
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 17 - 03:09 AM

It would be interesting if someone would actually address my point about the "two tier society" which propelled Donald-John to the Presidency and the UK to leave the EU monolith.

Please don't talk about "democracy" Mr McGrath while this issue continues to exist.

I have travelled extensively in inner city areas and many of the housing schemes of central Scotland where the huge gap between the social and political elite who write on these pages and the jobless, hopeless and often criminal underclass is frighteningly apparent.

Is this situation acceptable? Should it be allowed to continue and worsen? Is it time for ideological change?

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 10:25 PM

The job of an opposition is not just "to hold the Government to account". That is part of it. But it also has a duty to do what it can to prevent it doing things which it believes are wrong.

Today it appears that at least for the time being the opposition in the American Congress made up of the official Democratic opposition and also of a sufficient number of Republicans were able to frustrate a central policy of the newly elected President. Not criticise it, or "hold it to account", but blow it out of the water. That's an opposition doing what it's there for.

In the sequel to the Brexit referendum we've had the constant chorus that the job of those who see Brexit as a wrong thing to do should accept it as a done deal, and content ourselves with frittering away at the details. The assumption is that if you lose a vote you should accept it as final - an assumption that runs dead against the fundamental principal of democracy, and of any healthy society, which is that when a continuing disagreement arises both parties are free continue to seek to change the views of the other, but only by peaceful methods.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 09:12 PM

trum gains weight
before


after

will his heart make it.

Vegas odds are around 2 years until attack

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 08:57 PM

Donald threw a tantrum on Air Force that caused Secret Service to draw their guns. Donald had banned Mexican food on Air Force One that put a crimp on the Plane's menu. Twice he had steak for lunch and then once again the choice was fish or steak during his flight to Wisconsin.

He complained and was told that steak was replacing enchiladas and he blew up feeling he was being blamed. He shouted " I am sick of these motherfuckin steaks on this motherfuckin plane!"
Secret service thought they heard the word snakes and drew their guns... ;^)

since then people say he is a lot like Jackson,
Samuel Jackson.


ITS A JOKE AKE

I approve of the aforementioned joke
Donald

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 08:00 PM

the job of a political opposition to hold the Government to account, disruptive campaigns by sore losers ....

"sore losers" knows no boundaries, but favours the assertive, the blinkered, the cerebrally deficient and those arguing with anyone and everyone except the one person they can't**. And when the cap fits be sure it doesn't fall over yer eyes PAL!

**usually an ex-boss, ex-spouse or dead parent.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 04:58 PM

interestingly the Trump style immigrant ban wouldn't have stopped the westminster terrorist attack - done by an idiot from Kent called Adrian.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 01:12 PM

Y"Foaming at the mouth"

Not just "the liberal elite", aken. You can foam with the best yourself...

Those attacking Trump include some shady cold warriors and over privileged characters, but it's pretty well inevitable that when there's a majority consensus against him that will include all sorts. Yes, "majority consensus", even in the States. - remember a lot more people voted against Trump than for him, and opinion polls showing overwhelming opposition to his heallthcare "reform" plan would seem to indicate that a lot of those who voted for him must be feeling they got it wrong by now.

And outside the States about the only other people who seem to admire Trump are. Nigel Farage, Katiie Hopkins. (No, not Putin - I think it can be taken as read that he thoroughly despises Donald Trump, and would class him in that hallowed Kremlin category of "useful idiots")

There's an odd development sometimes in which, when people have been driven to make a choice between two evils, they can seem to drift into changing to cease to recognise as evil the choice they picked on as the lesser evil, and from tolerating it drift into becoming enthused by it. It's a kind of Stockholm syndrome, in which people fall in love with their captors.

Subject: RE: BS: President Trump/Russia link (FBI)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 17 - 12:43 PM

"It is the job of a political opposition to hold the Government to account,"
It would appear that, thanks to the opposition of his own party to his health programme, the republicans have taken on that task
Your snide remarks do you no credit Ake
This man has become a menace to his own party.
Jim Carroll