Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish

Subject: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Orson Trap
Date: 27 Feb 18 - 08:37 AM

I saw Paul Simon in the folk club upstairs in The Packhorse, Bridge Street, Manchester sometime in 1965 ish. Was any other Mudcater there? If so, does anybody know the name of the lady with Paul (American I think) who sang Americana type songs such as Mr Frog Would a Courting Ride etc.? I know over the years the subject of Paul Simon touring the UK in the 60's has been mentioned a number of times.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 08:06 AM

idk.

I wonder if this could lead you to some more info?

http://www.paul-simon.info/PHP/listconcerts.php?tour=-1

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Orson Trap
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 11:34 AM

Wow, thanks for that info. There is a lot to read, will have to go through it properly when I have time, hope I can save it for later. Had a quick glance but couldn't see The Packhorse gig. Cheers

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 12:43 PM

PAUL SIMON AT THE BRENTWOOD FOLK CLUB 50 YEARS AGO

https://audioboom.com/posts/2070403-paul-simon-at-the-brentwood-folk-club-50-years-ago

50 years on, the British girl who inspired Paul Simon: Woman immortalised in Kathy's Song now lives in quiet Welsh village

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620266/50-years-British-girl-inspired-Paul-Simon-Woman-immortalised-Kathys-Song-lives-quiet-Welsh-village.html

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 01:50 PM

Pete Hamlyn ran a club there about 1969 not sure if it was the same club but i remember the venue well ,i dont think it was the same pub that Nic jones used for his folk club, that was up near wilsons corner

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: Brian Peters
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 03:17 PM

And I bet the organizers of every one of those clubs will tell you they booked him for five bob!

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 05:21 PM

Jenks claimed that several decades ago but the MSG doesn't feature on the list FreddyHealey linked to.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 01 Mar 18 - 05:41 PM

Freddy... that list of gigs was interesting, though contradictory, with one list, then it starts again with different gigs. The first list gives Cambridge folk festival listed in 1964, but the festival started in 1965 (with Simon).
The folk club in Crewe turned down his request for a gig. He wanted £15. The club started in October 1965, so we must be talking about 1966 at the earliest.
Derek

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 09:20 AM

In response to 'The Sandman's' post. The Halliard opened a club at The Castle, which was in Ongar road, not far from Wilson's Corner. I was supposed to be the organiser, a job at which I did not excel. When The Halliard broke up in '68, Nic Jones & his wife, Julia, took over the running of the club, but for how long, I can't remember.
                                                               Nigel Paterson, mandolin, The Halliard.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 09:26 AM

I have written a blog about my time with Paul Simon, '64-'65. You can read it here:
https://www.nigelpatersonmusic.com (the blue clicky is not loading).

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,John from"Elsie`s" Band
Date: 04 Mar 18 - 10:11 AM

Three venues not listed."The Railway Tavern", Catford, "The Green Man", Blackheath and Chiselhurst Caves, Bromley, Kent.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:12 AM

So, if it was actually Crewe Folk Club that turned down his gig request, why do so many other people proudly tell this same story about their own Club elsewhere in England? Is it just folklore or just fondness for sharing ownership of an amusing anecdote? When I chopped off part of my index finger some years back, numerous people similarly claimed they knew a bloke who chopped another one off whilst demonstrating how he lost the first one. I imagine this is similar urban mythology.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:47 AM

He was also refused a floor spot[ according to folklore] at Catford by Dave Cooper, maybe Paul S didnt fit what the club liked, which i think was trad songs, imo Paul Simon is a ,bit over rated, his popularity imo owes alot to Garfunkels harmony singing and their duo work which is good pop music, but not tradtional folk.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:54 AM

He was booked to do a gig at SwindonFolkClub run by the legendary TedPoole, he got col feet because it was held in the Communist Party headquarters and Simon was scared of McCarthy type recriminations., this is not myth but is documented in a letter which is now in Swindon town archives
PaulSimon a man you could not rely upon come a revolution,

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 03:54 AM

Jerry... I can't speak for other clubs, but the founders of the Crewe club are still active, and the story has been told, to my knowledge, since the early to mid 1950s. There was also a story about him going to Sidmouth festival in 1965 after his Cambridge gig, but I've never been able to confirm that.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 04:00 AM

At least Dylan has written two or four good songs of social comment, PaulS is a good writer of pop songs but not as prolific as lennon macartney or ray davis,

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 09:43 AM

Yes, I agree he was never that prolific, as evidenced by his inability to come up with any new songs for The Graduate soundtrack, apart from adapting his half written song about Mrs Roosevelt (to Mrs Robinson). I often wonder if that started off the subsequent rather cheapskate trend for film soundtracks to just churn out old but familiar existing hit songs rather than compose new material.

Subject: RE: Paul Simon in Manchester 1965 ish
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 12:20 PM

quote from legendary TedPoole a man who would be there supporting if there was a revolution
For Ted Poole, it was just another letter asking for a gig at the folk club he had set up with his wife in 1960s Swindon.
Art Garfunkel and Paul Simon in 1967
Simon and Garfunkel went on the enjoy huge success

The club had an excellent reputation - it offered eight nights work out of 10, and accommodation - and is still going to this day.

The typewritten letter by a relatively unknown American singer-songwriter - Paul Simon - asked for seven pounds, plus expenses.

"We were paying an average of £5 or £6 for leading lights at that time, but £7 was understandable because he had come from the US," Ted, now 79, said.

Simon - later to become one half of the world-renowned Simon and Garfunkel - was based in Britain at the time and is thought to have written some of his best-known works here.

These include Homeward Bound, penned while waiting for a train at Widnes rail station.

In the letter, dated 12 June 1964, Simon declares: "I record for Columbia Records in the States and will cut my first LP for Topic Records over here.

        
Ted Poole in 1960, and now
It was about traditional music and song, and celebrating working people's culture
Ted Poole
"I would appreciate any work that you could give me between the first week of August and the first week of September."

Very soon after, Ted met Simon - who asked again about a gig - after a concert in aid of folk musician Pete Seeger.

"'He asked: How about it? Do you have a space?'," said Ted

"I told him we were starting up and where we met - in the cellar underneath the Communist Party's Swindon branch.

"And then he said 'Ah...sorry'. He didn't want to get on 'the list'.

"He felt it might label him - it was still McCarthyite times in the US".

Ted, a lifelong Communist, has just handed five files and two bin bags packed with archive material about the club to the Wiltshire and Swindon Records Office - including Simon's letter.

"We had no idea at the time that he was going to become this worldwide figure," Ted admits.

'Burnt down'

The club started meeting below the Communist branch HQ for reasons of space.

Ted said: "It was about traditional music and song and celebrating working people's culture.

"The Trade Unions Congress passed Resolution 42 that as trade unionists, we should be interested in our own culture - we said OK and put on alternative nights at what became known as the Folk Club.

"It has always been non-profit making and is now in its 45th year.

"The club is one of the longest running in the country. We are proud of that. We did it for the love of working class culture, not for self-aggrandisement."

Big names that appeared there include Ewan McCall, Peggy Seeger, Dave Swarbrick and Julie Felix.

"Julie appeared no later than 1963, after the venue we were in had burnt down.

"A nearby car caught fire and took the place with it. We had to go elsewhere," said Ted.