BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze

Subject: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 07:34 PM

I've heard it all now. No level of drinking is safe. Everybody in the world should go teetotal. You'll get cancer...

No level of driving a car is safe.
No level of crossing the road is safe.
No level of eating food is safe.
No level of not enough sleep is safe.
No level of coffee is safe.
No level of going outside in the sun is safe.
No level of worrying about work/your missus/your kids/your money is safe.
No level of carbs is safe.
No level of ham/bangers/chorizo/bacon is safe.

I don't know what's safe any more. I wonder whether doing a bit of sex or ogling girls wearing daisy dukes is safe. Please don't tell me that admiring bum cheeks half-hanging out of daisy dukes will give me cancer...

The whole thing is enough to drive you to...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 07:37 PM

And why's there a big gap above my post....Is that safe?

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 08:06 PM

Er, now I see why...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 08:31 PM

Well, Chongo says, "Life ain't safe. That's what makes it interesting, see? And that's why I drink booze. 'Cause life ain't safe, and it's never gonna be."

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 08:39 PM

Mrs Steve and I have discussed this. We've decided that we'll give up as soon as our considerable stockpile has run down. In fact, we're going to have a competition to see how fast we can do it...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 08:59 PM

Something things are definitely NOT safe, like ogling young ladies when Mrs. Shaw is around, or making Certain Remarks when the young lady is a master in Mixed Martial Arts or teaches stuff like that to the SAS.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 10:18 PM

Jello is not safe

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 10:36 PM

Steve they give no tropries for living to a very old age. It usually goes like this. He survived countless battles with the enemy was wounded three time, awarded for bravery. Then taken out at 95 by a fall off the toilet

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 10:36 PM

Enjoy your scotch it worth it

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Aug 18 - 11:51 PM

Steve started this thread as half-past midnight, his time. Had you had a few, Steve?

The only time I've heard that no level of booze is safe is during pregnancy. Don't drink if you're pregnant, Steve. Otherwise a little bit is okay.

Well, not for an alcoholic. I hope that is not the case. You're a good guy, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 12:22 AM

No it was on my newfeed today. No level of alcohol is safe

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 03:14 AM

Should I be worried about my next year's profit share, Steve? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 03:52 AM

I seem to remember that there's a conflict of opinion about this between researchers in the USA and the UK.
My view is that, as with anything else, excess is dodgy but a modicum is fine.
Steve, if you get pregnant then please do stop drinking alcohol as leeneia advises.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 04:11 AM

I'm a night owl, leeneia, and I posted just after listening to the late news and whilst guiltily quaffing just a small nightcap (Laphroaig). Nary a drop ever passes my lips until the sun is well below the yardarm. I'm just off to buy a pregnancy testing kit and some gin and tonic. My sis reckons that it's what we should drink on non-drinking nights. Nice one, Dan. I nearly spilled me coffee there. Not Irish...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Jos
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 04:23 AM

Problem is they keep changing the rules about how big a modicum is.

It's bad enough with US pints being a different size from UK pints, and never mind how big 'cups' are.
And the BBC insisting on measuring distances in kilometres when all UK road signs and speeds are measured in miles.
And EVERY time they start telling you how many 'units' you are allowed, they try to explain how to work out how big a unit is (and while you are trying to work out how many units you drink you miss the rest of the programme or news item).

I've decided that however much I drink or eat, that's how big a modicum is, and if I happen to drink more it just means the modicum got bigger. If 'they' can change the rules then so can I.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 04:31 AM

Good thinking Jos!

There are, I'm sure, saintly people who have abided by all the medical advice and strict rules and have ended up with an early death from heart disease/cancer/diabetes etc anyway.

And those who haven't given a damn, eaten and drunk whatever they fancy, given it the big 'un and lived to be over ninety.

I think an individual's genetics have a lot to do with it, and also the amount of stress in someone's life. I reckon stress is a big killer, and tranquillity in life helps with longevity.

And crumpets dripping with butter are very, very good for one's health...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: G-Force
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 04:48 AM

Well, I'm 70, so I reckon I'm not going to die young.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 04:50 AM

Aargh, American cups...

I bought a second-hand Nigella Lawson cookbook online which cost me next to nothing. When it arrived I realised what the catch was - it's the American edition and everything is in cups! (I had a bit of a struggle with "heavy cream" too...) The upshot was that we bought a cheap set of plastic "cup" measures. Such things exist here!

Don't worry, Dave, as long as I live Morrisons Nero d'Avola will never die. There is one minor stipulation, as you know....

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 05:24 AM

In early January, 2006 I was told by a consultant at Lincoln County Hospital that my drinking days were over. Haven't touched a drop since - no problem, easy-peasy.

In fairness, I was never a boozer - five or six pints of bitter a week, a couple of drams of Highland Park or Bunnahabheinn on a Saturday night in front of the telly - so it hasn't been hard. The only time I miss it is when we're cooking lunch on Christmas Day (I always enjoyed a couple of sherries then), after Christmas lunch (miss my port), and if we go to the Greek Islands on holiday (what do you drink in Greece, apart from Diet Coke and iced coffee, if you're On The Wagon and a diabetic to boot?).

Otherwise, tea or posh coffee do me fine and dandy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Jos
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 05:43 AM

I am sure I have mentioned on earlier threads how common it is for centenarians, when asked the secret of their long life, to include a daily glass of sherry or whisky or brandy or some such. A few years ago a 113-year-old woman insisted that she had a glass of sherry every day. I have been starting my evening meals with a small glass of dry sherry most days since then. Possibly the lady in question drank sweet sherry (which includes 'medium' sherry as far as I'm concerned), but I'd rather enjoy my sherry so I don't want it to resemble medicine.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: MikeL2
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 06:37 AM

Hi

I ignore all of these projects that come up with ridiculous advice.

In my time I have been a heavy drinker.....but never quite alcoholic.
Luckily I have always been able to handle booze.

As I've grown older I have drunk less...not because anyone told me to or because of stupid advice from so-called "experts".

At the moment I am trying to lose weight and so I have cut back on alcohol as a part of the exercise (no pun).

I was not obese but have lost 2 Stones. I have "treated" myself to a glass of red wine most evenings.

We go out to local restaurants occasionally when I have a pint of beer and a brandy or red wine with the coffee. I do cut back on the food and eat more healthily even in the restaurants.

I am 83 but I don't propose stopping the booze regardless of what these daft surveys say.

Cheers

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 06:42 AM

Working out units is dead easy. 1 litre of 100% alcohol is 100 units. Litre of whisky at 40% is therefore 40 units. Litre of wine at 12% is 12 units. Litre of beer at 4% is 4 units. The only issue then is working out what 70 or 75 cl is and you need to know that 1 UK pint is 568ml and 1 US pint is 473ml. Easier to just say a bottle of wine is 3/4 of a litre. Bottle of whisky is just under. UK pint is just over 1/2 a litre while a US pint is just under.

Seemples :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 12:13 PM

Indeed, Senoufou:

amongst classical musicians on the East Coast,
I recall a story a few decades back. I will keep him anonymous.
His career was focussed largely around the Greater New York City area,
where there are more jobs in terms of classical singing.

He was abstemious, fitness-minded, locker at the gym, and so on.
And he had a fatal heart attack AT THE GYM. He was mid-60's in age.
And he was the last person on earth
that anyone expected it to happen to.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 01:11 PM

That's very sad keberoxu. My own father is another example. He played tennis and badminton for his teams after retirement, and swam lots of lengths of the pool twice a week. Never smoked. Drank only a small glass of wine occasionally with his dinner. Wasn't an ounce overweight, ate extremely healthily.
But sadly his neighbours and the Police discovered his body in his bed after they noticed he'd left gardening equipment out on the lawn for a few days.
It was terribly sad, and the post-mortem revealed a cardiac infarction.
He was 76, which isn't all that old nowadays.
When I rang all his friends, they just couldn't believe it. They all said how fit he'd looked.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 01:39 PM

When my grandpa turned 94 . Big birthday party, cake, hats. Say something granpa.’who the fuck lives this long ‘m

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 01:47 PM

After he had several of his wild turkey bourbon. Were you going grandpa going to try and piss wish me luck ‘

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 01:56 PM

This is very disturbing, I'll have to do some serious drinking about it, oops!, I mean thinking about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Nick
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 04:15 PM

Everything that you enjoy in life, by definition, causes cancer in mice. Not sure who said it

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 18 - 08:25 PM

Damn should not have given that beer to the mouse now you tell me

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 01:10 PM

If you've read the same BBC article as I did, Steve, you'll know another Dr said "There is no safe level of driving, but the government does not recommend that people avoid driving.

"Come to think of it, there is no safe level of living, but nobody would recommend abstention." ;-)

It should also be pointed out that the author of this report reportedly claimed the study was the most important study ever conducted on the subject. Well, duh, you wrote it, you would say that, wouldn't you!!

Here are a couple of links that may provide food for thought. I am not suggesting that alcohol isn't / doesn't, that high levels of consumption don't.... I don't know what the biases of the Spectator are, nor of the journalists who wrote the pieces. But read these & tell me that the new consumption guidelines are wholly scientific & not an attempt at social engineering. If only half of what the second piece alleges is true, Dame Sally Davies should not only be fired; frankly, she should be prosecuted for fraud!

How public health hid the truth about drinking

No wonder Britain’s alcohol guidelines are so extreme...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 01:38 PM

That is all extremely interesting Raedwulf. I know very little about epidemiology, but one wonders if other healthy/unhealthy lifestyles have been factored in/controlled for.
How can they accurately assess life-expectancy without taking into account:

-lifestyles during the childhood and youth of a subject
-diet, in all its complexity, over the entire life
-genetic factors
-environment (pollution for example)
-stressors (life-affecting events, such as redundancy, divorce, bereavement etc)

Surely those and other influences would have some effect on heart health and longevity? So how do they separate those items from the effects of alcohol alone?

Also, I notice that 'temperance organisations' were involved in conducting the study, which is rather like asking the Vatican to study the effects of atheism on populations!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 02:48 PM

The bit that worries me, Sen, is the "mathematical model" part. We'll ignore all the real world studies in favour of a mathematical model for whom the only suppliers are two of the existing committee, both part of a known temperance organisation. Does this not stink to high heaven?

In theory, "all the other factors" should have been averaged in / out & generally accounted for in collating many studies. But they've thrown away all the studies & gone with data provided by... This is the sort of science that had Galileo being forced to recant under pain of pain - we don't believe in it so it can't be right; we believe in this so it must be right!

Science or social engineering?

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM

Certainly not science Raedwulf, that's for sure!

I still stick to my philosophy that everything in moderation is the best way to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 05:53 PM

the next thing we will be told that sex is bad for us, it should only be for procreation, reminds me of the roman catholic church.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 06:39 PM

Sex gets rid of your wrinkles. Once you get past sixty, that's its main function unless you're in love. Which I am.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 07:21 AM

Its always good to know Steve has someone who loves him as much as he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 08:29 AM

"EVERYTHING" in moderation,Senoufou?
That seems a bit excessive.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 08:51 AM

Ah gillymor, but I also moderate my moderation, so all is well. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 09:19 AM

Okay, as long as you're not going overboard with that moderation business. :>)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 12:02 PM

"Sex gets rid of your wrinkles" so that you can read all of the combination to the safe from the tattoo...

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 12:27 PM

Rather be ashes than dust, as the poet said.

I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out
    in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom
    of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time.

Jack London

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 12:58 PM

Birches- Bill Morrissey

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 02:33 PM

I'm more of a slow and steady type myself. I like to potter along without any fireworks or mad moments. Stability and routine mean a lot to me. I don't find them boring but on the contrary reassuring.
So it would be oak logs on my fire, not birch!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 02:43 PM

Actually, I'm probably a wet stump wood kind of guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 03:19 PM

Lady Celia Congreve wrote a lovely little poem about the qualities of different types of firewood. ('The Firewood Poem')

We had a big log fire in our last house, and found that oak took ages to light and was better put on top of other woods already glowing.

Pine and other evergreens have a lot of resin in, which coats the inside of the chimney then ignites and causes a chimney fire.

Fruit woods (apple, cherry etc) spit and crackle, but smell nice.

With the onslaught of Dutch elm disease, we had lots of felled elms in our area, and the logs were plentiful. It burned quite well.

But as Lady Celia said, ash is the best of all. Ignites readily, burns steadily and not too fast.

All our neighbours have wood-burning stoves and no radiators. Tractors are zooming up and down the village at the moment pulling trailers loaded up with sawn logs. We have an oil tank and an oil boiler, as we prefer radiators in every room!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 03:28 PM

Ah, well, if we're meandering in true Mudcat style then, on the subject of firewood I offer this. Since wood produces methanol AKA methyl alcohol (yes, meths!), I claim to be still, somewhat tenuously, ON topic! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 03:56 PM

Well done Raedwulf! That's the very poem I was referring to. I can't do those blue clicky things, so thank you for that.

I'm sorry for meandering, I know I'm one of the worst offenders.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 04:46 PM

Never apologise for... Oooo! Butterfly! Hang on, it's 10PM & dark. Right. Must be a merf then. *Ahem* What was I saying? Oh, yes, meandering. Meandering is one of the beauties of Mudcat. I have resisted the temptation to tear into someone who was rather rude to a veteran member in another thread. Despite a long memberships here, apparently that individual thinks they're allowed to control their thread & demand that no-one turn it into "a playground". Rubbish. Mudcat has always meandered. Occasionally it goes too far and crosses the line from meander to "hijack". But the 'cat would be rather poorer without some meander!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 04:55 PM

I'm glad you think like that Raedwulf. In my daily life, I sit on my garden bench and natter to many, many folk passing by. The conversations always 'meander' and it's so interesting what one learns as these develop.
It's also a great pleasure to me on Mudcat to read all the different opinions and ideas, reminiscences and ideas. It's a very rich and varied forum isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Jos
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:24 PM

I totally agree, Raedwulf. It is so annoying when someone is 'told off' for posting something not strictly within the confines of the original thread subject. The joy and fun of both mudcat threads and everyday conversations is in the added richness from stray thoughts, barely relevant information and just letting ideas wander at will.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:33 PM

What is it about the cost risk benefit equation do you not understand?
Think about it as trade offs and not 'no level' is safe.

Reasearch is often agenda driven with only a few pure science inquiries that are found in agencies like the NIH.

No one gets out of this murder mystery alive.
Unless you are semi immortal like Steve
who must still avoid trauma.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:39 PM

Gaaah! Why did I write the word 'ideas' twice eh? Blooming senile.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:48 PM

Well this is my bloody thread and you buggers can meander as much as you like. Gerron with it!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 05:49 PM

The function of man is to live, its the function of mankind to exist or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: BobL
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 05:07 AM

"ideas, reminiscences and ideas"

The ideas give rise to reminiscences which lead to further ideas. Not senile at all Sen, just poetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 05:26 AM

Hahaha Bob, that's very sweet of you.
And now we have Steve's permission (as he says, it's his thread) we can all meander as much as we like. Goody!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 11:40 AM

Failing that, Sen, blame that bloody merf - you wuz distracted! ;-)

I just realised I didn't read your earlier post very thoroughly...

We had a big log fire in our last house, and found that oak took ages to light and was better put on top of other woods already glowing.

Pine and other evergreens have a lot of resin in, which coats the inside of the chimney then ignites and causes a chimney fire.

Fruit woods (apple, cherry etc) spit and crackle, but smell nice.

I too am on a multi-fuel stove for all of my central heating. Oak is very dense, so yes, it does take a while to get going & is not the easiest wood to light a fire with. It does give plenty of heat though. Ditto to your remarks on pine - willow can also be rather spitty on an open fire. I've not noticed the same problem with the occasional apple wood I've had. Birch (silver or regular) is also nice on an open fire. In my neck of the woods in The Fens (W.Norfolk border), the most common woods are willow & poplar. Poplar is one of the lighter hard woods, so it burns a bit quicker than others, but it gives off plenty of heat. I prefer it to willow (doesn't spit, easier to split), but either are quick enough growing that, if you've the space, you can coppice them for a regular firewood supply. I've read that 5 years is the minimum cycle (so you'd need at least 5 trees), but whether either would produce enough wood in 5 years growth to last through the winter, I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 12:56 PM

I've never burnt willow or poplar. But most of the willow trees round our area (Wensum Valley) have been coppiced (like the Whomping Willow in Harry Potter) I think folk used to make baskets from the thin cut-off branches.
An important thing about burning wood is that it must be seasoned for at least a year after cutting. All our neighbours with wood-burners have several woodsheds, already full of sawn logs.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 07:58 AM

Willows would have been coppiced for osiers/withies for use in basket-making etc, yes. I seem to remember reading an article about a farm (Sussex way?) earlier in the week that still does this, although it's harvesting mechanically these days!

As for seasoning wood for burning (as opposed to woodworking), that's variable according to a number of factors. Average temperature obviously plays a part, as will the type of wood. But mostly it's down to ventilation. And under the heading of ventilation comes splitting the wood. If it's left as sawn logs with the bark on, it'll take a lot longer to season. If it's split early, so there's plenty of exposed wood for evaporation to take place from, there's no way it'll take a year. The greater the ratio of surface area to volume, the quicker it'll season, especially if said surface area isn't mostly covered with a water retaining layer i.e. bark! I've somewhere between 1/4 - 1/2 a ton of willow lying around my garden at the mo. I've two trees, both of which took damage in the storm a few weeks ago. Once split it ought to be dry enough to burn by about the start of next year.

One final thing I forgot to include in my earlier reply... In theory, yes you do have a higher risk of a chimney fire with resinous woods. In practice, any increased risk should be insignificant. The two more important factors are, first, is your chimney properly lined? That doesn't reduce the risk of a fire, but it will reduce the risk of serious damage. Most of all, how hot do you burn your fire? When I moved into my current house (nearly 11 years ago!), I had a freshly plastered wall in the second bedroom. The owners lied to me & told me it was water damage. The new neighbour, who had been a charcoal burner, told me truth - he knew what tar smelt like & it was tar damage (they'd ask him to have a look at it). I promptly had the chimney properly lined...

If you burn your fire hotter, the smoke will rise more quickly & cool more slowly, meaning it leaves less deposits before it's outside. The other remedy is Stovax Protector which, as they say, "Attacks tar, creosote and soot in chimneys by converting it into harmless clinker which may be easily brushed away. Helps prevent chimney fires." It's a bit pricey, but I find it effective.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 08:11 AM

All most interesting Raedwulf. We also had our chimney swept frequently to reduce the amount of soot.

However my sister in Scotland didn't do this (she'd had a chimney and fireplace put into her house, but didn't know much about managing wood fires) and one evening her chimney started to roar alarmingly. Flames were coming out the top. She called the fire brigade; they stayed at hand, but said it would burn itself out, which it did fairly quickly, with no damage fortunately.

Our neighbours have several woodsheds, and the most gigantic spiders live in among the logs. They all know I'm terrified of them, but delight in showing me the latest specimen. They love it when I flee screaming from their garden. Pigs!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 09:37 AM

Not pigs. You can eat pigs (the afore-mentioned neighbour has had one of the 3 blasted nuisances slaughtered, there are still 2 to go; I've asked him if he can get any of the blood back...). The swine! Perhaps... ;-)

The only time I've had a chimbley fire was right at the top. I lit the front-room one, not realising that rooks had built a nest (it wasn't capped, it is now). Sparks eventually did their work!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 12:47 PM

Jackdaws just drop sticks down your chimney until some of them stick fast, then they drop more down to build up their nest. A jackdaw-treated chimney can have an awful lot of sticks in it. A cowl with mesh is a must round here. A smoke-tight chimney flue in sound condition doesn't need to be lined. I have one lined with lightweight concrete (insisted on by our ignorant mortgage provider 32 years ago) and one not, both signed off. They've been checked out by a HETAS engineer. They both draw really well. We burn a mix of smokeless fuel (Homefire Ovals) and wood in multifuel stoves. Some of the wood is my own, dried for at least a long summer. The rest is mostly kiln-dried. It costs more but it burns much better than just seasoned. Our chimneys are swept once a year, about now. When you first light a fire it's best to get the flue very hot before shutting down. That way, the flue draws better and you get far less creosote build-up. Those expensive things that you sprinkle on a low fire, supposedly to make your soot come loose, don't work and, if used when the flue is dirty, increase the risk of a blocked flue and/or chimney fires. Save yer money and get your flue hot every time.

Yiu can't just buy a stove and whack it in yourself any more. You must abide by fairly strict building regs which stipulate minimum distances from walls and carpeted floor, and, if your stove is more than 5kw output, there are extra stipulations regarding room ventilation. You're not even allowed to move a stove without aproval by a qualified heating engineer.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 12:49 PM

Last paragraph went before I edited it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Senoufou
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:02 PM

All these posts about wood fires makes me nostalgic for our last house with the big stone fireplace. When the logs were glowing and crackling, all our cats (five in those days!) would lie on the woolly rug in a row like sausages in a pan.

We had some lovely old fire irons, poker, tongs, shovel etc. and a huge log basket. Outside the patio doors could be seen fallow deer, the big orange fox, some grey squirrels, and all sorts of birds, including Barney the barn owl. Our garden was massive and beyond it, just open fields.

But carting logs around, cleaning out the ash etc - we don't do that any more. Also, the draught was something shocking. Open fires cause a massive air flow. One's front was hot but one's back was frozen!

We've never had a wood-burner though. That's what all our neighbours have.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:03 PM

As regards last para, Steve, indeed! And I suspect that's why mine is lined - it was done in Feb 2008 (after a rather chilly winter). As far as I recall, it wasn't specifically that I had it lined, it was that I wanted a stove installed & Cliffords' (excellent folk if you're in a generous radius of Wisbech) said "That isn't lined, we'll have to line that", to which I said "fine" because... The bummer was that they could only get a 6" liner down it because of the bend at the bottom - one size too small for a stove with a back boiler! You're right in that A smoke-tight chimney flue in sound condition doesn't need to be lined, but if you don't run a hot flue, deposits can easily soak in (through cement more than brick, I presume). I presume that's what happened to mine ere I bought it. That won't happen with a lined flue.

And you're right - it was jackdaws, rather than rooks. I've no idea why I wrote rooks, I do know the difference! I seem to remember we've also disagreed over Stovax (I don't run a low fire, as you may gather; from my point of view it just makes the sweeping easier), but at least we agree that the hotter the fire the better! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:44 PM

There are stove installers that will lie to you about the need to line flues. One near us said "Sorry, can't touch that, mate, flue's not lined, but we'll do it for you," then quoted us nearly two grand for the privilege of letting them rip us off. The bloke who sweeps our chimneys is also a qualified HETAS engineer and is firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school. Ask around a lot!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 01:49 PM

We had a multi fuel stove put in about 5 years back. Proper installer and he confirmed we did not need a liner. Added advantage is that when lit it beats the front bedroom!

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Raedwulf
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM

Also true, Steve. In my case, I've afore-mentioned reason for thinking it did need lining, I was entirely happy with the way the company conducted themselves & with the work they did (then & since). And I'm fairly sure that they charged me less than they quoted (which was a lot less than a couple of grand).

It is also worth remembering that not every bugger is trying to rip you off! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 18 - 03:48 PM

We have a very tall house. And, if you accidentally employ a cowboy, there's a bloody good chance that they'll install the wrong (cheaper) type of metal flue liner. Caveat bleedin' emptor.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 10:38 AM

from another thread in 07...

The horse and mule live 30 years
And nothing know of wines and beers.
The goat and sheep at 20 die
And never taste of Scotch or Rye.

The cow drinks water by the ton
And at 18 is mostly done.
The dog at 15 cashes in
Without the aid of rum and gin.

The cat in milk and water soaks
And then in 12 short years it croaks.
The modest, sober, bone-dry hen
Lays eggs for nogs then dies at ten.

All animals are strictly dry:
They sinless live and swiftly die;
But sinful, ginful, rum-soaked men
Survive for threescore years and ten.

And some of them, a very few,
Stay pickled til they're 92.

Subject: RE: BS: Shouldn't booze, can booze, will booze
From: gnu
Date: 31 Aug 18 - 10:34 PM

Bill D... lovely!