BS: Spanish hotel workers

Subject: BS: Spanish hotel workers & workeresses
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:52 PM

Unlike British hotels where seemingly fairly thick folks are often employed for minimum wage, our Spanish hotel employs good intelligent people.................probably for minimum wage, but you receive an infinitely better service!!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 08:08 PM

The "workeresses" nonsense was removed from the title. Women work. They don't do it in a diminutive fashion. They work, so they are workers. End of rant.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:16 PM

I've noticed far more emphasis on service in Italy and Spain than in the UK in tourist areas. If I think on, I'll soon be able to let you know if the same applies in Greece...

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:18 PM

By the way, I've noticed that both the Guardian and the BBC have eschewed the use of the word "actress". They're all actors now. Damn good thing too.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:37 PM

The thread title inspired me to revisit some old Fawlty Towers bits with Manuel on YouTube. They had me laughing out loud at them again.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:51 AM

Rubbish, workeress is the feminine grammatical form, as is bus conductress, actress, air hostess, stewardess, lioness, countess, czarina, duchess, empress, goddess, heiress, hostess, gypsyess etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: BobL
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:27 AM

But not editress, breweress, or kingess.

Historically I believe the grammatically masculine form has often served when a gender-inclusive meaning is required, although this seems to be going out of fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:06 AM

I don't think one can generalise about standards of service around the world. Each establishment has its own ways of serving customers.

A couple of years ago we stayed in the Queen's Hotel in Edinburgh (modest B&B, not at all posh as the name might suggest!) and the service was excellent. Room sorted every day, polite and friendly staff, certainly not 'thick'.

There are many words in English vocabulary which were in common usage years ago but are NOT acceptable now. Nigger, divvy, spastic, 'girl' for woman and so on. One has to change with the times or risk annoying/insulting folk.

Women nowadays don't appreciate being diminished, patronised or treated differently because they are female, as Stilly so rightly says. Their sex is irrelevant when they're out in the workplace.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:44 AM

They are all superfluous nowadays but the one that annoys me most is 'comedienne'

Aaaaarrrgggghhhh!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:46 AM

And I forgot waitress - none of this "server" nonsense I must say!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Jos
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:47 AM

At least it wasn't 'workerettes': -ess is not necessarily diminutive - lionesses, empresses, goddesses can be just as formidable as (or more formidable than) their male counterparts.
But in most cases, as here, it is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Jos
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:50 AM

The one I really hate is 'poetesse' - so patronising, suggesting pretty ditties about butterflies and flowers.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:52 AM

Bonzo, join the twenty-first century, give women workers their due. They don't need to be reduced in stature by having some suffix attached to the name of the job. They work just as hard and need to be paid equally.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 01:09 PM

I agree that they should be paid equally, but I also agree with correct grammatical gender like wot I was taugh at school innit!!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 01:25 PM

When a person is at work, I'm not interested in their gender. Whether a restaurant has male or female folk who serve the food is irrelevant, so using a different word for each is a bit silly.

If my house is on fire, I don't care if the fire fighter who gets me safely out has a willy or not.

One can of course choose to use the same vocabulary as one did sixty years ago. But if people are offended/insulted/upset, one must take the consequences.
I wouldn't wish to cause people offence or hurt their feelings, so I try to adapt my words to keep up with the times.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: leeneia
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:20 AM

So, Bonzo, you must be on holiday. Are you having fun? Hearing any good music? I'd like to hear about it.

Isn't it hot?

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:49 AM

Yes indeed we are on a very relaxing holiday, in Playa San Juan which is 24km north of Alicante airport in Spain. It has been up to 32C here so quite hot when pushing my wife in a wheel chair that we hired for the week. As to music, I have heard some interesting songs by Jasmine Thompson on a CD of "Best Acoustic Covers 2018" which they play on the hotel system every day. I also heard a lot of hideous music during a wedding party here last Saturday, which took place close to our room, finishing with fireworks at 1.30am which I managed to sleep through, but woke up my wife!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 02:20 AM

I haven't stayed at hotels in England because all my hosts were Mudcatters. I must say that Micca and IanC and Bill Sables and their families were fabulous hosts, as were many others who provided transportation and other forms of hospitality.

But I've been to Scotland twice in recent years, and the service at lodgings was always very good....except for the mindless young woman stacking cups outside our Emily Smith concert at a fancy Edinburgh hotel. Even when I asked her to, she wouldn't stop.

-Joe-

"Workeresses?" Come now, Bonzo, how weird can you get?

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:16 AM

Aha, I did make it up!!

In Spanish of course, a waitress is una camarera, whereas a waiter is un camarero - no argument there, grammatical gender and quite rightly so!

Joe what is your difference between "lodgings" and a "fancy hotel"? In our experience, with the exception of a superb hotel on the banks of Lake Windermere, British hotels have been exceptionally dull and full of draconian rules. There is often a world of difference between British 4 star and Spanish 4 Star!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 05:07 AM

One thing I cannot stand at British "lodgings" in the form of B & B is "breakfast at" a particular time. We prefer "breakfast between" which in the case of our present hotel is 7-10.30am.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:04 AM

Ah but Bonzo, if breakfast goes on for two or three hours, they'll cook all the food in one go and bung it on the hotplate. So if one rolls up at the latest time, everything will be dried out and overcooked.
If however breakfast is at one time only, all the food will be freshly cooked and much nicer.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Jos
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:20 AM

Maybe they could ask their guests to let them know the night before if they would like their breakfast at a certain time. Then it could be freshly cooked at that time. If those guests then roll up at a different time they will either have to wait while it is cooked, or they can have dried up, warmed up food.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 05:21 PM

Don't understand. I've stayed in hotels all over the UK and Europe and had breakfast between (for example) 7.30-10.30 - freshly made, in the case of the full English - and a full buffet in France, etc.

The main difference between the UK and France, for example, is that serving staff in French restaurants are often better trained than their British equivalents, and can tell you how a dish is prepared in detail. It's a proper job.

I remember going to the Brighton branch of a "French-style" restaurant chain, some years ago, for morning coffee and croissants. The place had French flags and paintings of French scenes, accordion music in the background - all that sort of ambiance. When our food was brought, the girl said "Bon appetit", to which I asked something in French. She looked embarassed and said, "I can't speak French - we're just taught to say Bon appetit".

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Jos
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:20 AM

Will, were the coffee and croissants like the ones you would get in France?

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:31 AM

The staff in the Queen's Hotel in Edinburgh were mainly from Eastern Europe, and their boss was from Belfast. All very professional and delightful folk.
When I visited inmates in Parkhurst Prison on the Isle of Wight I stayed in many different B&Bs overnight. They were without exception spotlessly clean and the cooked breakfasts were gorgeous. I got to know many of the owners and always got a warm welcome. One lady was full up but gave me her student son's room for the night - wasn't that kind?

I reckon the only 'dive' I've ever stayed in was a seedy dump in Morocoo (Tangier) in the sixties. The bed was heaving with bedbugs, the room stank of cannabis and the stinky communal toilet was one of those holes-with-footprint things. Appalling. I was even offered some cannabis to smoke by the proprietor. I was very young and a bit scared. I moved on to Tétouan next day!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:46 AM

When I did sales support I travelled all over the UK on expenses and stayed in some fine places but one of two were decidedly dodgy! One in Bath had a proprietor who Basil Fawlty could have been modelled on! I arrived back at the hotel not particularly late and thought I would have a drink. I rang the bell as no one was about and the guy appeared at the desk wearing a night shirt and night cap. I kid you not. In his favour, after muttering for a while, he handed me the keys to the bar and told me to help myself:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 04:57 AM

Will, were the coffee and croissants like the ones you would get in France?

Coffee - yes; croissants - so-so!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 05:03 AM

I've stayed in some French hotels recently, and found them extraordinarily unwelcoming - the staff were nice, but the whole feeling was monetising customers. There was no fridge or safe in the room; neither was there the kettle, water and couple of tea bags you'll normally find in an Irish bed-and-breakfast. If you want to make a cup of tea or coffee, forget it - they're for sale in some form. Everything was for sale. Everything was to do with money.

I also took a very expensive language course in France. The head of the school announced the rules on the first day. These included the fact that all students who wanted a cup of coffee at break time must buy their own capsules to use in the Nespresso type machines. This for people who had paid hundreds of euro to take the course! It's probably normal in France, but the sheer rage on the faces of non-francophone-inclusive countries at this announcement should have told the management that this was not a good commercial policy!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 05:11 AM

Just come back from a fortnight in France, including stays in hotels in Chartres, Tours, Rouen and Le Touquet. All, without exception, very welcoming and helpful, and all but one with tea and coffee facilities in the room. The one hotel that didn't provide it as a matter of course (the Hotel de Bougtheroulde in Rouen) did a free "courtesy tray", brought up by request, with tea, coffee, milk, bics, etc.

I should say though that, with the exception of the small hotel in Tours we used for a 1-night stop (2-star), all the others were 4- or 5-star establishments and not cheap! But the service everywhere was uniformly friendly and efficient, and nothing was too much trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 06:09 AM

I found the French in Paris a bit chilly, but in Roussillon and Normandy, once I opened my mouth and chattered away in French they warmed up a bit.
I got the impression that they don't much like the English!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 09:20 AM

They love us on the Normandy coast where the D-Day landings liberated them from the Germans, Sen.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 11:17 AM

"Ah but Bonzo, if breakfast goes on for two or three hours, they'll cook all the food in one go and bung it on the hotplate. So if one rolls up at the latest time, everything will be dried out and overcooked."

No, at the Alicante Golf this wasn't a problem because the food was eaten very quickly as the hotel was full, and replaced by fresh supplies all the time. The cook, a lovely lady, came out to check what needed replacing every 10 minutes or so. There was even a microwave available.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 11:31 AM

I believe I know what happened to the free coffee and tea.

Hotel: Please enjoy the complimentary coffee and tea in your room.

Various guests: Don't you have decaf coffee?
Don't you have green tea?
Don't you have decaf green tea?
Don't you have herbal tea?
Don't you have chia?
Don't you have honey?
Don't you have stevia?

It never stops.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Sep 18 - 02:45 PM

I would have given anything for a cup of tea when I arrived 'home' exhausted each night.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Sep 18 - 08:05 AM

All rooms of course in the Alicante Golf hotel have a substantial bathroom with piping hot water, and freebies replenished every other day and a very reasonable minibar - well worth €132 per night for double room and half board!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: leeneia
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 02:12 PM

It sounds like you are having a wonderful time. Good!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 02:39 PM

Our neighbours' lovely lad has gone off to Barcelona with his young lady. He's a hard worker (apprentice agricultural mechanic) He's texted his mum and is having a super time in a nice hotel. Nothing luxurious but he said the food is gorgeous. Flew from Stansted.

My sister is off to Seville next month (flies from Edinburgh). She's found a good hotel in the old part of the town, a converted merchant's house I think she said.
She's going with her two daughters, which is lucky because she doesn't speak Spanish but one of my nieces speaks loads of languages including Japanese, and Spanish will be a doddle for her!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 04:00 PM

Let me know about that Seville hotel when she gets back. We want to go next spring, possibly for Holy Week (Semana Santa). We've never been, though we have been to Granada and Córdoba, both amazingly wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 04:10 PM

Will do Steve.
She's a real 'foodie' and has lined up several good eateries, so will let you have the info on those too.
Her name is Barbara, and she's now calling herself Barbara of Seville!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 05:20 PM

That would be exceptionally grapefruit of you, Eliza. Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: KarenH
Date: 11 Sep 18 - 07:26 PM

I think generally given economic problems hotel workers and restaurant waiters are often highly educated. Young people in Spain have been struggling. A sad reflection on our times.

But I recall the time when a local waiter helpfully explained that a 'minute steak' was a very small steak. Not his academic subject, obviously!

Subject: RE: BS: Spanish hotel workers
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Sep 18 - 10:30 AM

That's a cute story, Karen. It made me smile.