Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?

Subject: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM

I thought if you were pardoned you were legally innocent?

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:32 AM

Legally innocent, perhaps - but factually guilty. Still, one wonders whether an 80-year-old man should still be paying for the sins of his youth.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:33 AM

What the heck are you talking about?

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:35 AM

Whatever it is...
a pardon means you did it, but the powers that be have forgiven you.
Legally not guilty is not legally innocent.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:36 AM

He's still a self-confessed and convicted sex offender, the pardon didn't change that.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:43 AM

Back in the 1960s, Peter Yarrow was convicted for taking liberties with a teenage girl. It was a serious offense, and Yarrow spent time in jail for it. Jimmy Carter pardoned him.
Yarrow was booked for a concert recently, but the booking was cancelled because of the negative social media comments.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:48 AM

I Googled. He was convicted of answering the door naked in 1970. I have friends who've done that, but there were't 14 and 17 year old girls on the other side. I don't know about other circumstances.

But seriously, answering the door naked 40-some years ago. And they just figured it out after booking him!? Stupid people...

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:48 AM

They would have known about the offence before they booked him. Looks to me like the whole thing was set up so that they could get press coverage from their virtue signalling.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:04 PM

The current news stories downplay the incident, but I get the impression it was no accident. It may have led to the breakup of PP&M in the 1970s.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:07 PM

It seems he did more than just answer the door in the buff-"Yarrow answered the door naked and made sexual advances that stopped short of intercourse".
The Awareness Center, Inc

I seem to recall that Stookey had problems of a similar nature.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:13 PM

I may have gone off half-cocked regarding Stookey. I guess I've been confusing him with Yarrow all theses decades.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:16 PM

It's fifty years ago and he doesn't seem to have repeated the offense. Things really were different then. Give him a break.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:23 PM

And we don't know that he hasn't. If I were a concert promoter I'd pass on him.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

In forestry that is called "cruising for hidden defect" - looking at a tree and assuming, or guessing something is wrong and downgrading it. In law, I think the equivalent would be innocent until proven guilty, and no other charges seem to have emerged in this volatile time.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 12:45 PM

There are a lot of talented artists out there who aren't convicted sex offenders, give them a shot. Yarrow blew his when he went after a 14 year old girl and it can't be argued that he paid his debt to society considering his sharply abbreviated prison term.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:09 PM

He was sentenced to 3 months in jail. His pardon came about a decade later. And "sex offender"!? You think rape is the same as flashing somebody?

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:20 PM

From this side of the Atlantic, in this supposedly more enlightened era,
it does seem a bit confusing
that some USA states may still permit 14 girls to get married...???????

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:23 PM

I would have thought that, as far as Me Too is concerned, this has far more to do with firing a shot across the bows of an industry notorious for the abuse of power and privilege where gullible youngsters are concerned
The same approach has worked to some extent with clerical abuse, though it is infuriating to recognise that, despite the massive concession by the Government in shouldering a major part of the burden of reparation, the church is still reneging on its part of the deal
The plea of "too long ago" seems to be a popular one where priests and pop-stars are concerned.
Wonder why!
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:23 PM

You're the one characterizing it as "flashing somebody", by most accounts I'm aware of it involved something more than that and I didn't connect his shortened sentence to the later pardon.
As for the forestry analogy above, in this case the tree's initial defect was not hidden and it was found guilty of a felony.

I have no sympathy for child molesters as, like many of us, I know a couple of women near and dear to me who lives have been negatively altered from abuse in their early years. Now, I'm off to observe the holiday.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:27 PM

And just to be clear, there was no question about Noel Paul Stookey. He's always been quite the family man.
Not sure how this got in the BS section. I've been posting on my phone and may have done it by accident.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:32 PM

Right, Joe. Again, my mistake re Stookey.
Happy 4th everyone.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:57 PM

Joe, because it's BS and not music?

The episode ended 50 years ago and he appears to have learned his lesson. He's allowed to vote, he's probably not on a registered sex offenders list, etc.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 01:58 PM

I put it in BS. It doesn't belong in music.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Megan L
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 02:35 PM

some of the posts smack of the unco guid there is no one on earth so good or so wise that they can safely talk down of their neighbour.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:46 PM

if you are pardoned you have been found guilty but pardoned.JERI   L according towikipedia
Criminal conviction and pardon by President Carter
Edit

In 1970 Yarrow was convicted of, and served three months in prison for taking "improper liberties" with a 14-year-old girl who went with her 17-year-old sister to Yarrow's hotel room seeking an autograph.[33][34][35][36][37] He has since apologized for the incident: "It was an era of real indiscretion and mistakes by categorically male performers. I was one of them. I got nailed. I was wrong. I'm sorry for it.
Jeri you should learn to check your facts before you make the following comment
Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri - PM
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 11:48 AM

I Googled. He was convicted of answering the door naked in 1970. I have friends who've done that, but there were't 14 and 17 year old girls on the other side. I don't know about other circumstances.

But seriously, answering the door naked 40-some years ago. And they just figured it out after booking him!? Stupid people...

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 04:57 PM

Pretty much what I found, and the meaning of "pardon" is what I said.

"by most accounts I'm aware of it involved something more than that". Gillymor, I don't know what accounts you're aware of. Share?
He served the full sentence.

And it's about a musician's appearance at a festival being cancelled. Should have stayed in music, regardless of the discussion of the scandal part.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:02 PM

Jeri he molested a young girl. I happen to agree with his political views, but that is not the point, anyone who molests an under age girl has committed an offence, molesting a girl is different from answering the door naked, as you stated

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:07 PM

Oh, lots of Americans consider showing nudity to be molestation of those who'd rather not see it.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:24 PM

Convicted sex offender who admitted molesting a 14-year-old girl.

"A 14-year-old girl and her 17-year-old sister went to Yarrow’s hotel room in Washington, DC, in 1970 seeking an autograph, it was reported at the time. Yarrow, then about 32, answered the door naked. He made sexual advances that stopped short of intercourse."
so according to this he did not just answer the door naked , he did more than that, he made sexual advances

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 19 - 05:58 PM

"Sexual advances" isn't even close to molestation, which, I would think, involves touching.
In any case, this has become too nit-picky, and villagers-with-pitchforks-and-torches for me to want to continue discussing it,so, bye.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 02:10 AM

there was a victim in this, a young underage girl the trouble is Jeri   your judgement has become clouded because you agree with Pters political views, if for example tjhis had been Nixon or joe mcCarthy i bet you would not be defending him.
typical that you disappear when you realise you are mistaken.peter accepted his guilt[which is more than you appear to do] and apologised whether the show should have been cancelled is a different matter.,   Jeri stop trying to defend an indefensible action.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 05:52 AM

jeri seems to have vacated this thread but I'll answer the questions she put to me-
Yes I know the difference between "flashing somebody" (a term that only you seem to use to describe Yarrow's admitted crime) and rape (something I never accused him of) but you don't seem to know the difference between "flashing somebody" and attempting to have sex with someone below the age of consent.
According to an article in the NY Post- "Yarrow served three months of a one- to three-year prison sentence after pleading guilty to taking “indecent liberties’’ with the girl." It would appear he got much more than a 3 month sentence and did more than just display his weiner, which is a scenario that you seem to be clinging to, as well as parroting his "everybody was doing it back then" defense which is no defense at all.
New York Post


I have nothing against Yarrow, I admire him for his social and political activism but to me when you commit a sex crime against a minor you pretty much relinquish the benefit of the doubt. If I had a young daughter I wouldn't want him anywhere near her, then or now.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 08:11 AM

But how does USA reconcile itself with an act of underage sex that is a crime in most states,
yet condoned by a marriage certificate in a minority of others....

That just looks perplexing and archaic from over here...

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 08:35 AM

"Sexual advances" isn't even close to molestation"

So you'd be happy for some older guy to make sexual advances to your underage daughter?

It's up to a festival to decide whether they want to book someone or not.
End of story.
The more people make it clear that this kind of sleazebag behaviour does not go unpunished, the less likely it is to happen again.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Mossback
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 08:37 AM

The "Me Too" movement began as something I approved of and supported whole-heartedly. It has now in many cases morphed into a McCarthyite lynch mob. I suppose the next phase will be 'the revolution devouring its own'.

That's a shame.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 10:07 AM

Not that making passes at 14yos is a good idea, but many Americans consider unwanted passes to be molestation.

Does sound as if a lot more than a pass happened, though.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Mossback
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 10:17 AM

Vass you dere, Sharlie?

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 12:28 PM

I was reading this morning of a case in America where a young man who raped a girl slightly younger than himself (she was underage, he was not), then passed around a film of the rape to his mates, heading it "what happens if your first sexua experiance is to be raped"
The judge, in his wisdom, ruled that "because the youth had no previous record and came from a very good home, it would be wrong to allow him to be tried as an adult at it would ruin a very promising future"
He also commented that he "didn't believe it to be rape as it wasn't carried out at gunpoint"

Yarrow's case isn't comparable with this atrocity at all but it is indicative of what women have to combat if they are brave enough to to bring charges against rapists and sexual molesters.
'Me To' needs all the help they can get when it comes to dealing with sexual predators in high places, in my book.

Dick
You obviously haven't read Mudcat's handbook
If a singer who has devoted his life to passing on his love of traditional song, has been unwise enough to comment on a woman's nail varnish at a folk club six decades ago, that heinous crime is still considered a worthy point for discussion thirty years after his death, even to the point of making discussion of the singer's work a no-go area.
On the other hand, if a folkie superstar shows his willie to a couple of fourteen year olds seeking his autograph, we should forgive and forget as it might stop him getting work
It's all down to perspective
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

specsavers or rosetinted spectacles

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 19 - 01:29 PM

I think I'd agree with Mossback. Sexual assault on women is a serious issue, and we must bring it to an end. But Yarrow's offense happened fifty years ago, and there is no evidence of subsequent offenses.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 02:42 AM

"happened fifty years ago"
Around the time Jimmy Savile stated raping children under his care
Maybe the earlier ones should never have been counted !
How long ago thi happened really has no place here - this has been used far too often to excuse paedophile priests
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 09:20 AM

I'm with Joe. Under aged "groupies" who knock on someone's door are not the same. But, like I said, villagers with pitchforks and torches.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:21 AM

willing underage groupies or not, don't you have a charge of statuary rape..

and what about the child brides in some USA states...???

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:27 AM

How long ago this happened really has no place here

Of course it does! One time, jail, finished, versus a serial rapist on the loose for ages? If you can't see that, you have no sense of proportion, or what punishment fits the crime.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:33 AM

And, of course, there is no such thing as ‘willing’ if the person is below the legal age of consent - which is what I think pfr is saying. A person below the LAoC cannot be ‘willing’ because they are too young to be considered competent to give consent to sexual activity.

But - and it’s a big ‘but’ - he was put through the legal process fifty years ago, served his sentence and, as far as anyone knows, has never re-offended. Ostensibly, he learned from the experience and modified his behaviour to standards that are acceptable within the law and society. Isn’t that what a prison sentence is for? Looks as though it worked in this case.

Time to give him a break?

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:43 AM

"One time, jail, finished...". You really think that kind of behavior occurs just once and then it's over? Look at Trump. Like I said, he forfeited the benefit of the doubt. Let concert and festival promoters make their own decisions, I'm sure Mr. Yarrow won't be missing any meals.

"Under aged "groupies" who knock on someone's door are not the same."
I don't quite understand that, is that the "she was asking for it" defense?

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:49 AM

Let's not judge everyone by the standard Trump sets, shall we? I don't see Yarrow, or men like Al Franken or Garrison Keillor in the same group as Trump or Harvey Weinstein or Roger Ailes, etc.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 11:53 AM

I take a balanced fairly tolerant view on this..

I differentiate between evil serial sexual predators,
and young men making the most of the hedonistic lifestyle and temptations on offer
from being in a rock band 50 years ago...

Record labels knew they could rip off male artist with bad recording contracts
because the dumb young bucks were more than contented with the copious sex, drugs.. and rock n roll...

Anyone who was young in the 1970s, knows first hand that acceptable social norms and behavior
were very different back then...

Any musician behaving in such decadent libertine ways now in 2019
shouldn't be too surprised if arrested and vilified...
..and should always stay aware that there are phone cams and cctv everywhere...

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 12:06 PM

All powerful men who took advantage of their positions to abuse females, some who were below the age of consent. While the degree of their sleaziness may vary I wouldn't leave any of them alone with my daughter.

Subject: RE: Peter Yarrow me-too'ed out of concert?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jul 19 - 12:20 PM

Gillymor, no, it's not the "she asked for it" defense. It's the "he opened his door and subsequently made bad decisions" vs "he drove to a local mall and trolled for teenaged girls" invitation to sanity.

But I'm interfering with folks' recreational outrage.
(Or their addiction to taking their pitchforks and torches to go after their perceived monster.)