BS: Stupid laws

Subject: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 08:22 AM

Kentucy law requires AR 15s that have been used to kill people must be auctioned off back to the public by the State. Also it is a crime to create or pass a law to prevent gun violence.

In Florida ... don't get me started.
A long time ago there used to be a comic strip called 'There Outta be a Law'. Now we need the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 10:53 AM

You may legally strike a protestor with a vehicle.
You may stand your ground and shoot someone with your unregistered gun.
You may sell guns that are made specifically for 9-year-olds.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 10:53 AM

Amerika. Is. Insane.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 11:17 AM

You've convinced me. I'm staying home.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 11:17 AM

It is a high culture but suffering from 1924 German politics.
However, the victimization issues are imaginary on the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 23 - 07:17 PM

12,000 gun deaths so far this year alone.

Idaho has a new law signed by Gov. Brad that can jail a person for 2 to 5 years for aiding a person who tries to leave Idaho for an abortion by any means. You better have a good reason crossing his state line.

DeSantis has his war on Disney and is using new laws for ammunition.

How dare Disney hire Gays to write Little Mermaid songs. roll eyes

White Nationalists are chanting 'Defund Libraries'.
It must be easier than a good ol fashioned book burning.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 02:55 AM

As is often the case, many of the things Donuel posts aren't really true. That's why he never provides documentation for what he says. As Barack Obama used to say about Republicans, "They just make stuff up."

If you want to know about Kentucky gun laws, look here: https://www.everytown.org/state/kentucky/

Passing a law against passing a law is pretty absurd, even in Kentucky.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 03:03 AM

Another stupid law in America. If parent A shoots the child of parent B, it is attempted murder. If parent B then goes on to shoot the child of parent A, then it is self defense.
More proof Americans love guns more than children

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 03:43 AM

I’m sure you’re right about Don, Joe. But I stand by my earlier statement - there’s an abundance of evidence to demonstrate that, where guns are concerned, Amerika, Is. Insane.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 04:15 AM

It's no more helpful to claim that "America is insane" than it is to employ the full-stops-between-words affectation (we can all read English round here and we can get the point without having it crudely rammed down our throats). On the substantive point, the problem in the US, as elsewhere, is the undemocratically-usurped power of lobby groups, whether it's organised religion, anti-abortionists, big oil, pro-Israeli regime or the gun lobby, the latter being especially egregious in the US. There are many millions of US citizens who bitterly oppose the overly-liberal gun laws and I'm sure that they would resent the blanket accusation of insanity. Instead, we need to recognise that they need a stronger voice of protest. Joe Biden says the right things, but, like all previous presidents, he has to pull his punches so as to avoid becoming toast. Is the opposition to the NRA organised, tactically savvy and brave enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 06:50 AM

”we can all read English round here and we can get the point without having it crudely rammed down our throats”

Sez the know-it-all loudmouth who rams his (frequently nonsensical, always over-lengthy) opinions down our throats on this forum ad nauseam.

You look to your own posting style, and I’ll take care of mine - got it, Prof?

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 07:18 AM

You copied your "style" from Maggie. Now I made an argument in my post around the issues dictating liberal gun laws in the US and the wider issue of undemocratic lobby groups there and elsewhere (which includes here). Why not discuss that instead of getting all defensive? And do you really think that tarring all Americans as "insane" is a constructive way forward?

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 08:07 AM

The devil is in the details Joe, a mayor may not make metropolitan gun laws because the State legislature has banned citywide gun reform laws. Hold your water Joe, I know how deeply you have been seduced by White Nationalists. I hope you continue to heal your version of history and pride that nearly put you in danger.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 08:26 AM

Everyone can see I supply sources for at least half of my comments but that is not the point is it? Your eyes look out through the filter of your training and experience. I believe America need new filters.
The maddening crowds and rallies have clogged the sensibilities of good people and bad people.

Yes, I associate America today with aspects of 1924 Germany but you want a source? History and current events are out there depending upon what version you gravitate to.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 08:42 AM

”You copied your "style" from Maggie.”

No I didn’t, it’s a very common style used by many, many people all over the internet. Somebody as ‘clever’ as you ought to know that, Professor.

”Why not discuss that instead of getting all defensive?”

Why attack my posting-style, if not to draw a response? You attacked, I responded - tough shit, get over it, Professor.

Now. Fuck. Off. And. Mind. Your. Own. Business.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 09:00 AM

Wow. Any grownups around?

Massachussetts apparently has defferent ages of censent for virgins and nonvirgins...

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 09:19 AM

The grown-ups are trying to discuss the issues raised in the thread. The big babies are slagging off the grown-ups such as meself and Joe, for example, in one case at least, by suggesting that the whole of America is insane, not an especially useful comment and which I picked up on because it's simply not true, not just to "draw a response." Joe, a mild-mannered chap these days, picked up inaccuracies coming from our other non-grown-up and also got it in the neck for his troubles. That's precisely how non-grown-ups "debate," sad to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 09:54 AM

Self proclaimed 'adults' by narcissists and the ideologically constipated make me wary. We have to deal with those types just so we do not make them the boss, which they would love, but is dangerous. That being said, America has a high culture but the elements of political insanity pervade almost every State. No one believes the entirety of America being insane is true. It is a moot point born by simplistic thinking.

Lately, the right is using ancient laws from 4 generations ago to find loopholes to counter enlightenment for the advancement dictatorial authority and power.

To make something legal does not make it morally good. Good law is a fine craft that few possess. Many of the insane laws are made by hell bent beginners.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 11:06 AM

"We have to deal with those types just so we do not make them the boss, which they would love, but is dangerous."

An awful lot of "we" in there from our self-proclaimed visionary (and my, don't you just have to keep telling us!). Speak for yourself in your case, I should say...

"No one believes the entirety of America being insane is true."

Well we can agree on that. Except, of course, in the case of one individual here! Claiming that America "is insane" is just plain wrong, full stop (see what I did there...?)

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 11:34 AM

> No one believes the entirety of America being insane is true.

That's what it looks like from this side of the puddle (and methinks that's what the UK looks like to left-pondians), if one goes by the respective broadcast and print meeja coverage. Extreme behaviour attracts attention (need I mention Agent Orange?), so that's why headlines *scream*, and why ad-financed algorithms select for outrage.

'Twas always thus: "blood libel" comes to mind, as does the moral panic whipped up over Jack the Ripper by the newspapers of the day.

> Many of the insane laws are made by hell bent beginners.

*Agree*. Others occur because the most difficult thing for a politician to do in a crisis is *nothing*, even if that's the right thing to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 01:55 PM

Been to the USA 4 times now and lived 'amongst the natives'. Lovely lot in the main. As are most people in the world. Judging a whole nation or race by the actions of a few extremists is what brings about racism and many other isms. Stereotyping a race is what 'comedians' like Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson used to do. Do you really want to follow in their shoes, John?

As to Donuel making things up. Yes, well, he does. He does it on every thread he is involved in, alongside posts intended to inflame or simply cause a reaction. (See Joke thread 2023 - "I bet $100 I can get more reaction with a wave of my hand than one of your jokes... ".) Yet, sadly, he is allowed to get away with it over and over again with apparent impunity while others have been suspended or banned for similar trolling. Ah well. Not my show...

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 02:49 PM

Sadly Donuel is like a liberal version of Fox News.
He has intimated that he suffers from some vague neurological disorder, as have others, but that shouldn't give him licence to spread misinformation here.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 04:49 PM

The right wing has spoken in their native and accusatory language.
It is the old ' accuse those who expose our lies as the liar'.
Holocaust deniers or climate deniers are a dying breed' In the last 50 years the truly secular free thinkers have grown from single digits to about a third.
So there is hope that religions and their cult playbook are being exposed along with Big Brother. How people deal with their pain can drive them to extremes. Denial is an easy extreme. There are worse extremes. Groupthink can give communal comfort but the price is often lying to yourself or allowing abuse. I may be a dreamer but I'm not the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 05:17 PM

The right wing? Joe? Steve? Gillymor? Me? More and more Trumplike every day. Back to ignoring I think but where do we draw the line between ignoring trollish behaviour and standing up to blatant misinformation?

Mods please intervene.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 23 - 05:17 PM

This is just scurrilous, and, ironically, it's the tactic of the hard right.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 05:08 AM

Maybe I'll just start a new thread about Stupid Laws as this looked like it could have been an interesting subject which has been hijacked by ad hominem mud slinging.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 06:02 AM

Policies can be as bad as laws. For example antibiotics have been in extreme short supply here for about a year. A policy was made so that big pharma is not required to answer the question, WHY.

Life threatening strep is becoming a concern. I won't get into a new covid varient in Virginia,

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 06:36 AM

After a young bad actor pharma CEO arbitrarily raised a drug price by thousands of dollars big pharma saw an opportunity to create so-called Pharmacy Benefit Managers to raise drug prices by thousands of dollars across the board.
Now we need a law to outlaw this new policy.

This story if done by The Atlantic could be 10 pages long so my succinct version could be viewed as a lie of omission. For my purposes, it is still true.

By the way, Maggie is a professional researcher, so a comparison is a compliment, not a criticism.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 06:43 AM

Antibiotics have nothing to do with covid.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 07:01 AM

"Professional researchers" hopefully would refrain from posting exaggerations and half-truths.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 23 - 08:57 AM

Criminals are using AI to clone voices so there are now kidnapping demands being made without an actual kidnapping. Should charges go beyond attempted kidnapping?

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 08:41 AM

Naive people do not realize they are only two laws away from extermination for dissent. First would require people to inform authorities who are disloyal and second to punish or eradicate those who are disloyal or illegal. Uganda, North Korea, Russia, China and other countries already have such laws. Of course Germany used to have such laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 06:23 PM

Covid has nothing to do with Ovid or Ovis.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 06:47 PM

What about an ovoid Hovis?

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 02:27 AM

Otis the ovoid 'ovis?

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 03:03 PM

In Russia you go to prison if you call the Ukrainian War a war.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 23 - 03:06 PM

The Enabling Act.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 23 - 04:04 PM

Shoot First laws allow a person to use deadly force in an encounter without any duty to retreat, even when they can do so safely.
Shoot First laws allow a person to kill another person in a public area, even when they could have clearly and safely de-escalated the confrontation by retreating, upending traditional self-defense law.2 Under traditional self-defense law, a person can use force to defend themself anywhere and at any time. When they are outside their home, however, they cannot use force that is likely to kill or seriously injure someone if there is a safe way to avoid it.3 Shoot First laws are often misrepresented as simple adjustments or codification of common law, but in reality, they aggressively alter criminal procedure in a way that makes it difficult for a person who invokes the law to be arrested, prosecuted, or convicted for using deadly force. In addition to these legal mechanisms, these laws distort the public perception of lawful self-defense and encourage people to shoot first and ask questions later.

Traditional self-defense law already gives people the right to protect themselves. These laws only require a person to de-escalate a situation if there is a clear and safe way to do so; they do not require a person to attempt to de-escalate if doing so would put them in danger. In this way, traditional self-defense law respects both a person’s right to defend themself and the value of human life.

This law has a nick name called Stand Your Ground in 21 States.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Apr 23 - 07:32 AM

This week alone; a boy went to the wrong house and knocked to pick up his young brothers and was shot twice, once through a glass storm door and again from outside, a cheerleader approached the wrong car and when she found her actual ride the man shot into the car full of more cheerleaders, a car pulled into the wrong driveway and was shot at as it tried to pull away.
These shooters are trying to claim a legal shooting like Zimmerman did when he 'stood his ground' and killed Trevor Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 10:11 AM

The Enabling Act (Reichstag Fire Act)

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 10:43 AM

America, the country where being a black person ringing the wrong door bell is a capital offence carrying a sentence of attempted summary execution without wasting money on a trial, and a costly appeal process while on death row.

Subject: RE: BS: Stupid laws
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 23 - 10:29 PM

Innocent mistakes = death by paranoid fearful Fox viewers.