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BS: Dates worth singing about. . .
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Subject: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Kelida Date: 29 Apr 00 - 12:48 AM Okay, well I went out with this guy tonight who I thought was really nice. Of course, as the night progressed, all he talked about was fate, and destiny, and how much we have in common, and after a while I was a bit bored. Also, he's in the Marines, which wouldn't normally bother me, but as an ardent pacifist, I find it a bit hypocritical of me to date someone who wants to be in the infantry. In any case, though, the guy was boring me to tears with all his talk about what a nice guy he was and how he thought it was going to be the start of something "special" and god, he really cares about me already, etc. . . Of course I think this is all just a lot of BS to try and get me in the sack, but he's all no, no, it's not, he really is as nice as he seems, and wow, I'm so perfect adn beautiful, whatever. . . Well, anyway, I was driving because his Camaro is in a small town about three hours away from Cincinnati, and as soon as I get him back to his house, he wants to fool around, so I leave, because hey, it's only a first date with this guy, and what does he think I am, some sort of tramp? Okay, don't get me wrong, I'm trying to understand this, but what is WRONG with some guys? Do they think girls are STUPID? Are we not smart enough to figure guys out?--especially former bad girls like me who know the same tricks and lines. I'm thinking there is a song in this, and I may think of something later. But this made me think of the one song Max played at the beginning of Radio Episode 31(I think)--BTW, what was the title, author, singer, album of that song? Also, I was wondering, has anyone (male or female) had similar or any dating experiences that have ever been worth singing about? Peace--Keli |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mbo Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:14 AM I haven't had ANY dating experiences period! Cretin tryin' to pull that on you, should kneed him in the tender vittles! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:15 AM Everyone Kelida.........everyone. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mark Cohen Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:17 AM Kelida, you might try this one for laughs, though I have it on good authority that it's not true. WONDERFUL SHOES Seriously, there was a period in my life (fortunately fairly long ago) when I was often guilty of acting like your Marine friend, and I'm not proud of it. I wish I could send apologies back through time... I am sorry you had to (have to) put up with crap like that, but I think it's always been there and probably always will. Just keep your sense of humor, and your self-esteem, and your eye on the door. Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mbo Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:21 AM And make sure you have something heavy to swing if they won't take no for an answer. --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Racer Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:23 AM I think that I've been on the other end of that at times. I don't know which would be worse though; I've never had a girl try to take advantage of me. Now that I think of it, I'd kind of like that. All joking aside, he probably deserved a learning experienced. I agree with Mbo. He should have recieved a slightly more violent response. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mbo Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:25 AM Let's face it guys, we're pigs. --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: katlaughing Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:31 AM She said she was a pacifist guys!*BG* Keli, when I saw the thread title, I thought it was going to be about important dates of the calendar, i.e. historical dates, to sing about! Oops! anyway, if it was, I was going to say, tomorrow the 29th is important enough for a good song or two, for Spaw's FIRST BIRTHDAY. To see what I mean see my Thoguht for the Day thread for Saturday. Oh, and the Marine? Of course you knew exactly what he was up to; they've all tried that line at some time. Nice that some grow out of it and we can love them for that.**BG** kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Sorcha Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:34 AM (Girl)(Woman) here......I did take advantage of a guy once, I was 20, he was 17, bad experience, and I am still sorry.........(upshot was, his parents caught us and I had to talk to his Mom......uhhhh, UN fun!!in the worst way!!) Kelida, watch out for them Marines, I haven't yet met one I like, ('cept Mbo, and he is not one, just his Dad). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 29 Apr 00 - 01:36 AM They don't grow up ladies, they just change tactics. LOL Yours,Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: alison Date: 29 Apr 00 - 02:24 AM I was about to say "do they ever grow out of it?" but you beat me to it Dave..... I don't recommend the "knee in the nuts" method unless you absolutely have to...... he could turn nasty... and most fellas know that's what you'll try to do and are ready for it... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: TerriM Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:46 AM just chalk it up to experience,Kel, we've all been there. Back in the days when I needed it I developed a technique of putting creeps off by aquiring a maniacal gleam, a palsied twitch and either a) saying 'Tell me about your relationship with Jesus' or just letting a thin dribble of red wine run from either side of my mouth. Seemed to do the trick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Twitchy Date: 29 Apr 00 - 12:02 PM Kelida, Consider this post, (1) free coupon exempting you from a really nasty flame. This is precisely the type of thread subject and content that provokes a nasty response out of people like us. It has no context or relevance to this Forum in anyway, and is much more appropriate as a letter to "Dear Abby"...or with responses re-directed to Personal Messages.
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Jon Freeman Date: 29 Apr 00 - 12:07 PM Kelida, I have posted this before sometime ago but it seems sort of appropriate here. It seems a lot of people in the US are not familier whith the usagage of shag in this verse. To shag is to have sex with...
The festival shagger he sat on the quay playing tunes on banjo an melodeon
The festival shagger wasn't really a shagger but at times he wished that he had been
The festival shagger was in fact still a virgin when he had his first shag from a gig
The festival shagger still sits on the quay and he plays much the same as before The poem stems from a brief relationship I had with someone and is a blend of fact and fiction. I have also posted this before but here is the tune I ended up writing for Jayne. http://www.jonbanjo.freeuk.com/jayne.mid Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Kelida Date: 29 Apr 00 - 05:38 PM Twitchy--If you look at the title of the thread, it IS somewhat music related. I was just wondering if anyone else had experiences like that that made them want to write a nasty anti-opposite-sex-song. However, if you or anyone else wants to flame it, oh well. I can deal with flamers--some of them even have valid points sometimes--I just prefer to think they aren't articulate (or intelligent) enough to say what they mean in a civil manner. Also, if you don't appreciate non-music threads, don't respond to them unless you have something constructive to say. Thanx for explaining to me that this is a thread that might get a few flamers--I knew that when I started it, but why should that stop me. Everyone else--I'm not a violent person, so I like to avoid the old knee-in-the-nuts tactic--no matter how much that is what I want to do. Then again, it depends on what exactly the guy was like. . . Mbo--Not all guys are pigs--just all the ones I go out with. . . Man, I have bad taste. The worst thing about this guy was that he KNEW what he was doing and he apologized--then he kept on doing it!! (or trying to) Jon--I LOVE that poem! Very cool! Terri--I like those ideas. Maybe I should try that sometime. Or say something to the effect of "yeah, my last boyfriend kept trying to have sex with me all the time, and he had this unfortunate freak accident including his penis and a garbage desposal. . ." hehehe. . .*with a maniacal gleam in my eye* Peace--Keli |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Apr 00 - 06:01 PM Hundreds of songs about romping and rape. But very few about this sort of situation - which is strange because it's a pretty frequent one.
Poets back in Ireland in the old days used to be treated with great respect, becuse if you offended them, they could make up a satire about you,.and you'd be a laughing stock. Forget about a knee in the balls - that's the way to do it. Kelida's first post almost reads like a song already.
And as for avuncular anonyms who write things like "Consider this post, a free coupon exempting you from a really nasty flame." There's a word for that kind of thing, but it's not one I like to use. And I promised to ignore that kind of nonsense on the Mudcat.
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: SINSULL Date: 29 Apr 00 - 06:14 PM Kelida, I think I mentioned this somewhere before. Nose picking works every time especially if you look uncertain as to where you intend to deposit your gleanings. Your story brought back somw fond memories and a smile. Trust your own judgment and unless in real physical danger, don't resort to the "knee in the groin" ploy. From what I have seen of you in Mudcat, I believe you are perfectly capable of cutting down these types with a word or a glance. You are a very special lady. If you doubt it, read the Male Postings above. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 29 Apr 00 - 06:29 PM Mbo said:
"Let's face it, guys, we're pigs."
Speak for yourself, Mbo. I know for a fact that in my young adult days I lost out with several young ladies because I took them at their word that they didn't want to. In one case, by telephone later, in ending the relationship, she said, "You could have, you know." I said, "I know. I knew. But you SAID no, and I'm not going to be in the position of a rapist [what today we'd call a date-rapist]."
The other young ladies were not as explicit, but the message was just about as clear. One said, "Nice guys finish last." So be it. Like Popeye, "I yam what I yam," and that's going to be straight-up or nothing. Dave Oesterreich
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mbo Date: 29 Apr 00 - 07:17 PM Well I wasn't speaking for myself, but for the male gender as a whole-- the multitudes of pig-men out there often overshadow the good ones. Check out TV shows and music, check out all the women I hear talking at my college. You hardly ever hear a kind word. It can't be that it's some sort of myth. There's less of "us" and more of "them". BTW there are LOTS of Marines and their families that I have known over the years who have been some of the nicest folks I've ever met. Yeah, the young ones are pretty much a bad lot (and they are real reckless drivers, I know) especially grunts and gun-bunnies. There are some good ones though. My Dad used to have a guy who worked for him who was the same age as I am now. His catch line was "I can do that." You could give the guy any job and he would find a solution (he was a heavy vehicle mechanic BTW), not to mention an all-around nice guy. They're not all bad. I know I am never gonna try anything like that garbage on a girl, unless I have a permission document, signed notorized! **BG** --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: The Beanster Date: 29 Apr 00 - 07:41 PM Kelida, I'm sure this isn't the first time you've run across one of these types and it won't be the last. The only good thing about first dates a lot of times is that it can also be the last date! I hope, though, that you didn't go into this guy's house on the first date...that could be dangerous as I'm sure you know. Just be careful. doesterr-- You didn't "lose out" on those women. They clearly gave you the idea that the answer was "no" and you did the right thing--and may have saved yourself some crimianl charges, as you mentioned. Anyone who plays games like that is not worth your time in the first place. And Dave, you sound like a great guy--those women lost out on YOU. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Apr 00 - 07:43 PM doesterr's story reminds me of THE NEW MOWN HAY (which exists in lots of variants).
So he's gone down to her father's garden
"O there is a cock in my father's garden Sometimes you just can't win. But then winning and losing only comes into it if you're treating it as a competitive sport."Scoring" - what a nauseating expression...
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mooh Date: 29 Apr 00 - 10:44 PM Kelida, Banks of the Bann is a nice place to visit...but, oh never mind, have we met somewhere before, perhaps... Peace, no pickup line, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Kelida Date: 29 Apr 00 - 10:50 PM Mooh--that guy actually said that to me ("have we met before?"). Somewhere in between "I'm such a nice guy" and "Wanna have sex?" (not exact quotes, but close enough). Peace--Keli |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Threadie Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:08 PM We would indeed love to know, Keli, what the exact quotes were? We would also love to know what the "former bad girl" would have done in the circumstances? "Prick Teasers" are what we used to call them. And Mbo? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Mr Fig Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:15 PM I am quite partial to Moroccan ones. There are also some nice ones from Lebanon. But I wouldn't really write a song about either one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:47 PM Well...."Figgy Pudding" is at least brought up in song (and often after ingestion too). Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Sailor Dan Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:52 PM Keli you made one mistake, Dating one of todays Marines |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Threadie Date: 29 Apr 00 - 11:56 PM Maybe that is what Keli is referring to 'Spaw? Figuratively, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: sophocleese Date: 30 Apr 00 - 12:04 AM Keli, you just reminded me. In my first year of university I stood up some guy one night because I had felt very uncomfortable about accepting the date but had allowed myself to be overpersuaded by a friend. Later a friend said I should write three poems about it, I Left Him In the Donut Shop, Walnut Kruller Crumbs, and some other one whose title I forget. I never did write them but maybe I should try now. What the hell were you thinking of dating a Marine with a Camaro for god's sake? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Apr 00 - 12:12 AM It could have been figurative...or perhaps the guy was a figment of her imagination.....need more data. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: alison Date: 30 Apr 00 - 01:51 AM Well that's the dilemma summed up nicely
Sleep with him - you're a bad girl / slut main thing is.. do what you are comfortable with... and if the situation doesn't feel right.... back out or you'll end up disliking yourself for it... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: JedMarum Date: 30 Apr 00 - 09:42 AM Kelida, Sounds like you handled it just fine ... and a song relating the story with a bit of humor (poke fun at his earnest plea) would probably be a hit! As for men are all pigs? Well my wife tells me this too, and I remind her that we had to work hard to get that far! But in truth, I know from personal experience that women can seek the same goal, though they're normally more subtle about it. And as for first date?? Who's counting?? If it's the right first date; you'll be pushing him into the sack! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: JedMarum Date: 30 Apr 00 - 09:46 AM right on , alison! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: The Beanster Date: 30 Apr 00 - 02:29 PM Well said, alison! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mbo Date: 30 Apr 00 - 02:32 PM Good one Jed! Alison, you got that damn straight. --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,ABC Date: 30 Apr 00 - 08:41 PM doesterr said: "I yam what I yam," and that's going to be straight-up or nothing. Because of the general nature of this thread, would you mind explaining what you mean about the "straight up" part????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: The Shambles Date: 01 May 00 - 08:16 AM How about 1649? Or 1860?
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Allan C. Date: 01 May 00 - 09:20 AM Yeah, Shambles. 1066 has always been a favorite of mine. Funny thing, Kelida - a friend of mine and I were talking about this kind of thing a few days ago. (He and I are both in our early fifties.) He said, "Yes, there was a time when getting into a woman's pants was the driving force in my life. Now the desire is still there; but the imperative has faded."
There were times in my life when putting notches on the bedpost might have been really important - well, let's be real here: it would have been damned important! But respecting the wishes of the women I dated was even more important to me. And I am quite sure that there were some, who, if I had been just a little more persistent, would have been persuaded to "give o'er". I know for certain that there are guys out there who can respect your wishes, Kelida and who will be at least equally intent upon getting to know what is in your heart as well as knowing how you might feel between the sheets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amergin Date: 01 May 00 - 12:01 PM I was always kinda partial to 1381 and 1973 both years where dreams have died. Kelida, I do believe that you girls have us guys all figured out, but that we're just too stupid to know it. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mooh Date: 01 May 00 - 12:28 PM Kelida, Nice thread, btw. The old saw goes, "Men have enough blood to operate a brain and a penis but not both at the same time." And I might add, women are proving this to us generation after generation. Too soon horny, too late smart. Peace, without a piece. Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 01 May 00 - 01:08 PM Bear in mind, K, that the maturation curve in males -- especially in this culture -- often lags well behind that of females of the same chronological age. So if you want heart-smart, you may need to look to men who have learned how to take some responsibility in the world, maybe had some hard times or learned what loss and risk are really all about. At least, the percentages are better. I know from recent experience that it is possible to find a sensitive and competent (both!) HS-age or thereabouts Western male, but it is almost amazing when it happens. Try looking among musicians rather than Marines -- they have rather a different perspective on the topic! :>)
Amos |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amergin Date: 01 May 00 - 01:51 PM Look around at the libraries, coffee shops, bookstores, etc. And don't forget the poets. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 01 May 00 - 03:32 PM GUEST ABC asked what I meant by having preferred to be straight-up or nothing.
Although I wasn't thinking of the double meaning when I wrote that, the answer is that I unfortunately ended being both: I chose one and remained the other. Dave O. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: SINSULL Date: 01 May 00 - 03:35 PM Sounds like Amos is pointing you in his direction. Red Alert, K.
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Little Neophyte Date: 01 May 00 - 06:58 PM Sinsull, I think Amos is just offering Kelida, some wise fatherly advice, thats all, right Amos? Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: harpgirl Date: 01 May 00 - 07:23 PM ...let me just politely say that this topic is inappropriate to this forum and is an example of what has degraded it...please take your personal problems to a qualified therapist... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amergin Date: 01 May 00 - 08:02 PM I'm sorry, Harpgirl, but I don't feel that way. If something is bugging you, why not let out the steam to some faceless names? To me that works better than having to tell them to some one standing in front of you. Besides this horrific dating experience is hardly worth paying a hundred dollars an hour to bitch to a therapist about. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Threadie Date: 01 May 00 - 08:53 PM Why not let out steam at some faceless names? Perhaps because the 'faced' ones deserve it more.
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,firehair28 Date: 01 May 00 - 09:11 PM uncool, harpgirrl. There's plenty of threads to read out there w/o coming in here and flaming on. I think most young persons have been through something like your experience, Kelida, and not all with the same happy ending. As to songs, there are a goodly set of "robber bride" type songs (the names escape me) where the lusty gent is outwitted by a fair young maid, who usually takes off on his horse, or motorcycle or whatever and leaves him in the lurch. Of course, these are told from the guy's point of view, so it's told as a terrible crime against the guy....*snerk* As for messages like threadie's, blech!! There are plenty of nice sex workers out there, threadie, and you don't even have to buy them dinner. If sex is your only aim for a date, be honest about it and hire a professional. Sometimes a date is just a date, and sometimes "no" means "no". 'nuff said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,firehair28 Date: 01 May 00 - 09:18 PM sorry, that last line should have read, "Sometimes the object of a date is just the date.." Fiona the revisionist |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Kelida Date: 01 May 00 - 09:20 PM Wow, this has gotten a lot longer since I was last here a couple days ago. I'm going to try and respond to everything, but if I miss you, I'm sorry, but here it goes: Threadie--Well, what to say to you? Hmm. . . I don't think I'll ever be the girl I used to be. I wasn't a very nice person. I took guys for granted, and I ruined a relationship with someone I really cared about because I was immature. For more on that see the "Songs about infidelity" thread. Amos and Allan C.--Wow, you guys are great--real advice. I do like to think that some guys are really great. It's strange because usually I do go out with musicians and artists. Those are the people I hang out with--I think this time I thought to try something new. Oh well, I suppose I learned my lesson; I just hate to judge people before I get to know them. . . Guess I'll stick with what I know best from now on. . . Amergin and Mooh--Thank you so much for your sympathy and kind words. I wouldn't say this was a "horrific" dating experience, but I've had better, and I certainly hope for better in the future. Harpgirl--The thread was clearly labeled BS, although it is in a way music related. If you don't approve, don't respond. I'm sure you've seen the discussions about flamers and trolls on other threads. I don't consider this to be a problem worthy of a therapist, only idle discussion, so unless you have something to add, get over it. Peace--Keli |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Kelida Date: 01 May 00 - 09:22 PM firehair--thanx. I love those kind of songs--especially when the debauched maid gets her revenge! As I said above, I guess I learned a lesson. . . Peace--Keli |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Threadie Date: 01 May 00 - 09:38 PM "As for messages like threadie's, blech!! There are plenty of nice sex workers out there, threadie, and you don't even have to buy them dinner. If sex is your only aim for a date, be honest about it and hire a professional." I have no problems in that department, firehair28 (what ever happened to the other 27, I ask myself), thank you very much. What makes you assume that I have? We were wondering, though, just as we are on the subject Oh, by the way, 'blech'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 01 May 00 - 10:03 PM K -- One small correction -- it is not that Marines are a category of "bad people" or some such. It is just they are being trained into one kind of mindset, and it is rare though not impossible to find them with the breadth to shift gears easily, especially if they are still wuite young. Older ones can be just as mature as other intelligent men in my experience, and I have worked with a good number of 'em. And I am happily married so flattery will just get you the biggest SEG you ever saw! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST Date: 01 May 00 - 10:09 PM Don't breed with a soldier. You will only breed more soldiers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,OldMember Date: 01 May 00 - 10:57 PM I am writing as a guest but I used to frequent this forum quite often. Harpgirl said she was asking this be moved to a chat room and she is right. It is this very type of thread which put me off several months ago. I could tolerate some of the argumentative threads like the armalite thread and I could even put up with some of the members who got into all the daft silliness. They were and still are very valuable for their serious contributions to the Mudcat. But over the past few months there has been a steady decline in the quality of the threads and the reponse given to Harpgirl was not warranted IMHO. She has proven herself over the years to be a substantial contributor here and many of the newbies seem only interested in chatting away about nothing. Kelida, what have YOU contributed? Have you added any song lyrics aside from the ridiculous Songbook? Done any research? How about you firehair? Do you even know who Harpgirl is? Do you have any idea what she has done? Are you aware of the quality of performer she is? Sadly, you don't care do you? Some of us do. And that is why some have left and like myself return to find continuing deterioration of a site we once loved. You'll notice even Catspaw was making fun of this thread. That alone should tell you that it lacks merit and does NOT belong here. He is one I have often criticized for being chatty, but he has also been important for his serious contribution of knowledge and the real compassion, humor, and intelligence of many of his postings. We seem to have many new members who only have one side and let the music take the hindmost. I hate posting this way because I have always used my given name, but too many here are no longer to be trusted.
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amergin Date: 01 May 00 - 11:26 PM Sites like this are great for learning and for GETTING TO KNOW OTHERS!! If you don't like it I have an answer for you: LEAVE, or if you don't want to leave just leave others alone if you have nothing constructive to add. Why do people have to contribute something here for them to be seen as worthwhile? Why do people have to be outstanding performers for them to be heard? That is the type of snobbery many folks in the artistic communities have fallen into. I have seen that myself. Been snubbed at by some of the local writers here and I damn well hated it. In fact it really burns my ass when I see "people" like you do it to others, because they are not worthwhile in your eyes. We all have something to contribute in this world of ours, even if its just CO2, it's still a bloody contribution. Get your ass off that high horse, sit back, and enjoy life. That's why we're here. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: wysiwyg Date: 01 May 00 - 11:31 PM Anyone who loved how Mudcat WAS could do well to take responsibnility for cleaning up the old bad feelings they left all over ther place. Music scholars, funsters, BOTH of you please hear me-- you need to address how you dragged each other's hearts through the mud long before we newer members arrived. We trip over it all the time with NO idea where the hurt feelings lie. And we did not cause them either. It isn't fair to the newer ones to get slammed for messes that should have been cleaned up long ago. I get personal messages all the time with "Be careful" "Be thoughtful" Be quiet" "Be loud and proud" "You need to know that some people feel..." "You don't know this but we had a bad mess and we are still reeling from this or that or whatever so change YOUR conduct newbie if you would be so kind". No newcomer can clean up what you fear we will step in, you have to do that job yourselves. You might as well know that I have more to say on this and I am going to be saying it. Keli, you did ask about songs and several were posted. What more people want, is not reasonable to require of you. Enjoy being here and watch out for invisible cowpies only if you wish to. ~Susan~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Threadie Date: 01 May 00 - 11:38 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: The Beanster Date: 01 May 00 - 11:47 PM I'm not about to leave Mudcat, after all, I basically just got here but the thing that bugs me a bit is comments from folks lamenting about the old days here (see above). True, I don't know what the old days were like but I do know that change is inevitable. Sometimes it's sad to see something you considered reliable and unchanging, evolve into something else, however, I don't believe a natural evolution can be stopped, or should be stopped. I also think the less-than-hospitable reactions to harpgirl's comment was the result of the hostility embedded in her posting. In this forum, as anywhere else, you usually reap what you sow, be it positive or negative. And of course, that has nothing to do with how talented (or untalented) you are. I think Amergin has a point, in that, whatever is contributed here, we can all take it or leave it. There is no harm done with B.S. threads. If you don't want to read them, don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Pony (of "Dog and Pony" Show) Date: 02 May 00 - 12:10 AM Ode, to Praise...and major thread creep. A drunk stumbles along a baptismal service on Sunday afternoon down by the river. He proceeds to walk down into the water and stand next to the Preacher. The minister turns and notices the old drunk and says, "Mister, Are you ready to find Jesus?" The drunk looks back and says, "Yess, Preacher..I sure am." The minister then dunks the fellow under the water and pulls him right back up. "Have you found Jesus?" the preacher asked. "Nooo, I didn't!" said the drunk. The preacher then dunks him under for quite a bit longer, brings him up and says, "Now, brother, have you found Jesus?" "Noooo, I did not Reverend." The preacher in disgust holds the man under for at least 30 seconds this time, brings him out of the water and says in a harsh tone, "My God, Man, have you found Jesus yet?" The old drunk wipes his eyes and says to the preacher... "Are you sure this is where he fell in?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: JedMarum Date: 02 May 00 - 12:19 AM What is all this ridiculous bitching about what someone else is saying??? How many ways can we say to the small minded wipers of other people's noses "if you don't like the thread, stay the f(word) out of it!!" This thread has had some interesting conversation among a predominantly friendly group of people - a group who is drawn together by their common interest in music. Of course, as human beings our interests vary, and the focus of our conversation sometimes strays from music. We don't need the self-appointed, self-annointed Conversation Police to whine miserably over every thought that is expressed that they find offensive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, rodeoclown37 Date: 02 May 00 - 12:27 AM Click Here |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, Threadie Date: 02 May 00 - 12:38 AM "but I do know that change is inevitable"
There should be a five dollar fine for instigating this drivel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 02 May 00 - 01:19 AM Ain't we just awful critical! What a powerful contribution! I am just so impressed at the intelligence and sensitivity of it all, why, I could just roll over and barf. Telling people what they should and should not communicate to others willing to listen is a pretty high-handed, condescending, and sanctimonious. Is that the tone of the long-lost Mudcat that was? Why bother posting it? Seems awful short on compassion, courtesy and basic Mudcat kindness, you ask me. Kelida, I have appreciated both your musical contributions and your threads of human attention very much, and hope you will feel confident about communicating more, rather than less. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Old Member Date: 02 May 00 - 01:36 AM None of you seem to understand do you? If you find something you love, is it too much to ask to respect the history of the thing? Harpgirl has a history and all of you are making a history. You don't have to be great but you need to be respectful of all the work that has gone into this site by knowledgable members and not clog things up with wasted words. Out of curiosity, have any of you made a donation to Max and Dick? I have on numerous occasions and I'm now thinking that a membership here might rid the place of this kind of thing. A little bit of censorship is in order to at least keep the threads more topical. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 02 May 00 - 01:51 AM I am sorry, old Member, but I have always treated members of this group with respect, kindness and compassion; I treasure them. I love their wisdom, their singing, and their insights. I think the post above is one of the very few disrespectful messages -- altho it is mild --that I have ever posted. But I fail to see how going into a thread and chastising everyone in it, and accusing them of degrading the environment, in the manner that harpgirl did above -- and BTW, I have every respect for her knowledge and intelligence and have read many of her past posts with great interest -- is anything but disrespectful in the extreme. Why would you begrudge a small number of people enjoying a conversation relating to something about their lives -- why would you even read past the first post if it was so uninteresting? What is the real problem? Until it is named, in fact, I doubt you will find your exhortations improve things much. You are right. I do not get it. I do not see that the bitterness and sardonic superiority I see being brought to bear in this thread is worthy of this group, nor do I see it as an appropriate way to elevate the tone of the threads here. Maybe you could tell me why it is that all this anger is coming up at this point? What is it you feel has gone? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amergin Date: 02 May 00 - 01:59 AM I am so proud of you, lad. Wish i can be so cool. You know I would make a contribution or two or three if I could play. Then, I'd be able to sing my own songs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Mooh Date: 02 May 00 - 08:13 AM Howdy all, my $.02 (Cdn funds), I'm a little bewildered about all the complaints about this thread. After all, there has been ever so much music written concerning this very issue that that should be enough alone to justify the topic, even within the most restrictive parameters. So, I think Keli should just go ahead and use all this free material (in this thread) as song stuff, and I think I will too. Much of what makes a song about relationships interesting, and makes it rise above the banal, is the stuff around it like the W5 (who what why when where) and exposure, rage and embarrassment and so on. Simple wining kills a song every time. I like this forum for its personalized approach, which helps the songwriter, if the songwriter will listen. Therefor for me it makes alot of sense to live one's life here in this forum, for life is what song is about. Keli, thanks for making us talk. Peace, and no spel-chek, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Jon Freeman Date: 02 May 00 - 09:05 AM Well Old Timer, I may live many miles away from Harpgirl but I have had the pleasure of "meeting" her in Hearme and I agree - she is a fine singer and player. Jon (who misses hg's contributions to the singing) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: SINSULL Date: 02 May 00 - 10:45 AM Amos and Kelida, I was joking. Hope I didn't offend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Wesley S Date: 02 May 00 - 11:01 AM Kelida - I wish I could help identify the song you asked about in your original post - it doesn't look like anyone else can either. I guess a lot of folks preferred to go down a different path than to answer your musical question. But one song came to mind for me. It's Robert Earl Keens folk- noir "The Road Goes On Forever and The Party Never Ends". In that one the waitress gets away with all the money and a new Mercedes but the "hero" is left in jail. Joe Ely does a great version of it. Check it out. Wesley S { happily married and damn glad I'm done with the dating rituals except for dating my lovely wife} |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 02 May 00 - 11:57 AM Was that the Radio session he started with "Incandescent Pickle?" If so, its in the Songbook, K. Early Challenge stuff. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Kelida at school. . . Date: 02 May 00 - 12:32 PM Amos--It wasn't that song, but I think it may have been episode 30 or 31. I remembered it because MAx talked about how sometimes, being a man, it made him feel bad or something listening to a song that is an example of the bad ways men treat women, expecting sex all the time and stuff. . . Maybe I should just watch the episode again--I don't remember if he said the name of the song or not--I probably just don't remember. . . ------------------------------------------------------ I will never understand why people always seem to respond most to threads that they don't agree with. Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it would hurt the Mudcat more than any non-music-related BS ever could. I think the constant flaming is what turns me off most about the Mudcat, but then I think of the people who are kind and helpful and that have made my experience here enjoyable. Old Member--I started coming here because I'm young (17) and I want to LEARN more about folk music. Believe me, I at least read all of the music-related threads, but if I have nothing to contribute, I don't feel the need to put in a useless post. I would rather just learn from everyone here, and I don't intend to offend anyone by this thread. I noticed however, that the thread on "cars to avoid" hasn't recieved the negative response that this thread has even though it is far less music related than this. Realise that I did ask about a song in my original post and that the thread was clearly labeled BS--it was not intended to be strictly music-related. Also, I haven't been here very long, and I am a learning musician and songwriter. I do play clarinet and write songs, so I am not wholey without musical background, but I don't have my computer set up for Hearme, so unfortunately I can't take part in that, however much I would like to. Why do act like the privelege to post to the forum should be restricted to only those who are in your opinion talented or have made major contributions (money or music)? In that case no new people would ever come here. . . Are we just not welcome? Peace--Keli |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Bert Date: 02 May 00 - 01:27 PM Ok Guys, lay off of Harpgirl! She has just as much right to say she disapproves of this thread as Kelida had to start it in the first place. You can ignore a single posting in just the same way as you suggest that she ignore the thread. Personally I think the thread is fine. I love the BS threads and I don't see anything wrong in discussing things with your friends. Bert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: TerriM Date: 02 May 00 - 01:46 PM I am so woefully tired of this stale old arguement going on and on and on....everything that can be said on BS threads, for and against, and people's right to chat and whether flaming should be ignored etc. etc. has all been said ad nauseum.Do we have finite space that only music can be discussed, do we have people who cannot get out of a thread if they open it( in spite of a BS signal) and must write something ,or read every part? Please can't we just ignore the flamers or the people who don't like BS threads but read them anyway and then feel they must comment on how much they don't like them? Attention is just making things worse and I for one, am very, very bored with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: TerriM Date: 02 May 00 - 01:47 PM I am so woefully tired of this stale old arguement going on and on and on....everything that can be said on BS threads, for and against, and people's right to chat and whether flaming should be ignored etc. etc. has all been said ad nauseum.Do we have finite space that only music can be discussed, do we have people who cannot get out of a thread if they open it( in spite of a BS signal) and must write something ,or read every part? Please can't we just ignore the flamers or the people who don't like BS threads but read them anyway and then feel they must comment on how much they don't like them? Attention is just making things worse and I for one, am very, very bored with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Jed at Work Date: 02 May 00 - 02:33 PM just for the record; my comments were not directed at Harpgirl (who addressed the behaviour she objected firmly, and correctly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Wavestar Date: 02 May 00 - 03:22 PM Kelida- (Firmly ignoring thread creep and unkind sentiments...) Have you evern heard Christine Lavin's song, What was I thinking? Or Dar Williams' wonderful tale, which I recall having a long name and I have stupidly forgotten, about her leftist cannabis smoking boyfriend in college? As for robber bride songs... this isn't strictly one, but I'm thinking of "Step it Out, Nancy"... now there's a woman who made her revenge. Or even Frankie and Johnny... Relationships are the stuff music is made of. -J |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 May 00 - 07:05 PM I found this thread late, but I do want to say: - 1. It is not really my place to say so, Kelida, for I have only been coming here a year or so, but I think you should be welcome. Do not be put off by some over-hostile reactions. 2. The attraction of the sexes (and sometimes its lack of mutuality) has probably been the basis of more song than any other single thing. It must be an appropriate subject for discussion here. 3. People go out with each other because they fancy each other and to pretend otherwise is unrealistic. It has been said (I think it might have been Montserrat) that "No man ever meets a woman without measuring the sexual potential between them. It may be zero but he still measures it." He was probably right (or would have been if speaking of heterosexual men meeting women - I suspect that for homosexual men, meeting men may be the same). Society creates obstacles to deciding in any sort of natural way whether and when to resolve the sexual tension created. Some women trade on it (not commercially and openly, I can respect that) but by playing games for advantage, and I think the less of them for it. Make up your mind, and be clear about it - and try not to change your mind it makes for problems. Also be aware of the problems which may be created. 4. It is perfectly possible for women to be sexually direct. I had better not specify who it was said to me (on a first date) "I think it's time we went to bed". It didn't often happen, I was glad it did, and I never respected her any less for it. It's fairly rare at 17, however. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: The Beanster Date: 03 May 00 - 12:42 AM Richard, Not to thread creep too much but I think Montserrat ignored 50% of the equation when he made that statement, accurate, though it is--but I believe it applies to women, too. I don't think one can help sizing up someone else sexually even though, like he says, the potential "may be zero." Interesting thought, though... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Pete Peterson Date: 03 May 00 - 09:34 AM About 50 posts back Amergin took the thread title literally and said 1381 and 1973 were dates when dreams died. Now I agree with 1381, when John Ball rang the bell, but can find nothing to remember about 1973 except the first energy crunch and gas lines. . . was THIS what you meant? the "loss of a dream" that comes from realizing the curve is not monotonic? what DID you mean? wondering is PETE at work |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 03 May 00 - 09:39 AM John Ball rang which Bell? What is this event in 1381?
1973 was the year Richard Nixon fell, as I recall, or at least the scandal broke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Jed at Work Date: 03 May 00 - 10:50 AM Richard Bridge - great comments! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Marion Date: 03 May 00 - 10:56 AM Kelida, here's a song you might enjoy. It comes from Brigadoon (the musical, not the place). I like the way the heroine evolves from being an taken-advantage-of innocent to becoming a sly commentator on the men she encounters.
At sixteen years I was blue and sad Marion |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amergin Date: 03 May 00 - 01:24 PM Actually 1973 was the year Pinochet took over Chile. Salvador Allende was murdered exactly a year before I was born. Amergin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Pete Peterson Date: 03 May 00 - 01:35 PM thanks-- or rather, sad to bring up old memories. That WAS a pretty good dream wasn't it? Amos-- 1381 was the year of the Peasant's Revolt in England-- can you tell which side wrote the history books? one of their marching songs went: When Adam delved, and Eve span, Kyrie eleison Who was then the gentleman? Kyrie eleison a question no longer quite so important, but vital during the Middle Ages. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Amos Date: 03 May 00 - 01:51 PM Well, I did my own homework and learned that 1381 was the date of the short-lived Peasant's Rebellion led by Wat Tyler and John Ball against Richard II -- by the way a fifteen year old youth at the time. A wonderful survey of English history can be found at this site, which provides source documents from major milestones in medieval history -- including a wonderful letter from Joan of Arc to her English enemies. Talk about dates worth singing about, there are scores of them just in the one resource! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: Bert Date: 03 May 00 - 01:55 PM I used to have a boss who lived in Wat Tyler's Cottage in Brenchley, Kent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST,Pete Peterson Date: 03 May 00 - 03:28 PM And was he a Boss, or had he picked up something from the apirit of the cottage? One can only hope. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Dates worth singing about. . . From: GUEST, (Not a very knowledgeable) Glam Rock Fan Date: 03 May 00 - 09:14 PM But Amos, remember. What with life expectancy in 1381, a 15 year old 'youth' was actually a 'middle-aged man' |