Jacomo finane? What does that mean?

Subject: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 01:25 PM

That's the question; What does Jacomo finane mean? I do sing it myself in a song (Brother John) but I don't even know what it means...

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Jacob B
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 01:58 PM

As someone with no firsthand knowledge whatever, I'll be glad to throw some hearsay into the discussion. I heard some interview (or maybe, I read some article) in which a musician who had grown up on the streets of New Orleans said that his gang used to say "Jacomo finane" a lot, and that he had always understood it to mean, "get out of our way, 'cause here we come!"

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 02:10 PM

Hi, Yo - I KNOW I've heard that song, and it's going to bug me until I can figure out the rest of the song. Could you please post the lyrics here in this thread, and let us know where you learned it? Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,guitarist
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 02:59 PM

heheh -- when you find out let me know. I spent hours online one time trying to track it down, and came away knowing exactly as much as I did when I started.

It's in "Brother John" but I think the first recorded appearance of it is in "Iko Iko", mid 50's New Orleans band (ahh, I don't want to go through looking all that stuff up again, but a search on "Iko Iko" will turn up more hits than you can wade through in the rest of your life).

It's Creole patois, a slang admixture of French, Swahili, and possibly rhythmic nonsense syllables -- if you find out anything, post back -- there may be an answer out there, I just couldn't find it.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 03:00 PM

Maybe it's Creole for Help, I've fallen and I can't get up?

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,guitarist
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 03:10 PM

lessee -- "help, I've fallen, and I can't get up -- Iko Iko onday"

or "help, I've fallen, and I can't get up -- Brother John is gone"

yeah, that works!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Mbo
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 03:13 PM

Jacomo is obviously a variation of Giacomo, which means "John" in Italian (I'm Italian I should know), and as far as I know, "Finane" is a common Italian surname. I could be wrong of course.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 03:54 PM

So an Italian name eh? Could it mean John Do than? I agree with you guitarist; help i've fallen and can't get up doesn't realy work. I saw the words in another discussion in a French cajunlike song too. Still want the lyrics of Brother John, Joe Offer? I think I have them somewhere... Guitarist, do you know any more Mr.Dave songs, and lyrics?!! YO.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,guitarist
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:18 PM

nah, there's more to it than "John Doe" -- Jockomo/Giacomo derives somehow from the medieval jester character, but how it all ends up in the Mardi Gras "Indian" mythology is more than I was able to pursue. You could probably make a doctoral dissertation out of it, it's really pretty interesting how that culture comes together, but it'd be an insane amount of research, and I don't know that you'd ever really sort it out -- for example, one of the things I turned up was an interview with an old Mardi Gras "Indian", who was complaining that the culture was being lost because the young "Indians" didn't know the meaning of the songs. Well, if _they_ don't know, who does?

I really think to figure it out, you'd have to go to New Orleans and hang out with the "tribes", and even then maybe never really learn conclusively where all the stuff comes from.

But hey, if you find out, lemme know!!!

(oh yeah, the only Dave stuff I have is the first El Rayo X, love that album but that's all I've got). You might want to check out Dr. John, Professor Longhair, The Wild Tchoupitoulas (that spelling is probably way off), the Meters, etc if you like that stuff, that's where Dave got it.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: WillH (inactive)
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:19 PM

Brother John is on the "Wild Tchoupitoulas" eponymous album.It is also in a Les Blank film called, "Always for Pleasure" about the Wild Tchoupitoulas and other Mardi Gras bands and they discuss the meaning of the words that they sing and other things, you can buy it from Elderly Instrments, or rent it if from some of the more funky video stores.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 04:51 PM

I might be dumb, but what's Mardi Gras?? You might wanna check out Mr.Dave's work with Wally Ingram. I think it's awsome! (Listen to my English, almost no accent!!) Thanks for the hints Guitarist, I'll try and check out those bands. You realy think David got it from them? I mean, he's a musician all his live......

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,guitarist
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 06:12 PM

Yo, Mardi Gras is a street festival in New Orleans at the beginning of the christian observation of Lent. Lent is supposed to be a period of self-denial, so Mardis Gras (Fat Tuesday) is a monstrous party of self-indulgence. The culture surrounding Mardi Gras extends far beyond the festival itself, though, there's a whole tradition of music derived from the bands that march in the parade, which is where the song "Brother John" comes from. Dave didn't "steal" it or anything, but he didn't write it.

WillH, thanks for the tip on the film -- I'll see if the library can track it down for me, I'd love to see it.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: JenEllen
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 08:18 PM

I'd heard the the Jacomo finanais....as Jacomo being a FranglasianCajun version of John, and the finanais being the end..Brother John is Gone/Dead.

In the Mardi Gras, various "bands" get together, dress in the similar "colours" of their group, and have a sort of singing contest. This is MUCH evolved from the times when the families/groups used to get together and duke it our for glory. The Brother John song is a great song to get the troops ready to go into battle.

I'll have a look in the record cupboard, I have a terrific version of this type of thing and I can't quite remember the name of it, but the Neville Brothers are on it and they actually go out and sing/fight for Mardi Gras.

Hope this helps, ~Elle

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Noreen
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 08:59 PM

When they're not playing football................

Subject: Brother John & Iko Iko - Neville Brothers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 04:27 AM

Hi, Yo - I found the "Brother John" lyrics on a terrific Smithsonian Folkways CD called "Crossroads: Southern Routes." It's an enhanced CD and it displays the lyrics as the song plays - but it moves too fast for me to be able to transcribe them.

MardiGras (Fat Tuesday, the day before Ash Wednesday), is known as Carnival or Karneval in much of Europe. I found an interesting article about the Mardi Gras Indians (click).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 09:23 AM

Who are these Neville Brothers youguys keep telling me about?? I found them on the web, and listen to some samples. But it's nothing like I thought it would be... Way of from the Brother John song I know. Tell me more people, meanwhile I'll be surfing the web for some more Mardi Gras info..I love this stuff! Yo!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 09:41 AM

The Neville Brothers are a bunch of BIG American guys (brothers) who sing like angels. I was on an airplane with them once (that's just my 'brush with fame' for the evening). They've made plenty of recordings but apprently are MUCH MUCH better live.

I imagine a lot of the Mardi Gras stuff you'll find on the web is about the Gay Mardi Gras which happens annually in Sydney and is one of Australia's biggest tourist events. It's never held on Shrove Tuesday, or indeed any Tuesday.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: WillH (inactive)
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 10:36 AM

I believe that Aaron Neville produced the Wild Tchoupitoulas album, and that the music was played by the Neville Brothers, with Dr. John and others.

Guitarist mentioned Mardi Gras being associated with the tradition of Mummer's pagents, which makes me think of Philadephia's Mummer's parade. The costumes are so much like the Indian Tribes, but the routines are way more elaborate, and for some reason, they celebrate on New Year's Day (Which is known as Mummer's Day in Philadelphia)

The music that the Philadelphia String Bands play is nothing like indian tribe music though. For that matter, the Morris Music and Carneval music are nothing like the others either, and the pagents are all closely related, at least in terms of tradition..

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 12:31 PM

Yo:
For one of the best interpretations of this music, try and get ahold of that Wild Tchoupitoulas (pronounced 'chap-a-tool-uh') album.
~Elle

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 06:30 PM

Will, the Mummers Parade grew out of the Shooters, a Philadelphia New Year's celebration where people marched through the streets shooting guns in the air. I believe they adopted the English Mumming tradition and incorporated it into the festivities. But now it's taken on a life of its own. I don't know if there's anything quite like the String Bands, Fancies, and Comics anywhere else in the world. But I hear they no longer march down Broad Street???? That would be sad.

As I recall the lyrics of "Iko Iko", the words go, "Jacomo fino ah nah nay, Jacomo fina nay," or something close. The "Jacomo fino" part would give credence to the "Giacomo is dead" interpretation. Unless it was all made up by a seventh grader. I think we have the makings of a doctoral thesis in folklore here.

Aloha,
Mark (ex-Philly kid)

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Stewie
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 06:53 PM

A relatively old, but fascinating, book about the folklore associated with Louisiana mardi gras, kings, baby dolls, zulus, queens, creoles, cajuns etc is Lyle Saxon, Edward Dreyer and Robert Tallant (Eds and compilers) 'A Collection of Louisiana Folk Tales: Gumbo Ya-Ya' Louisiana Writers Project Publications. The edition that I have was published by Bonanza Books and copyrighted by the Louisiana Library Commission.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 11:18 AM

So,.....the music Lindley makes (today) would that have anything to do with Mardi Gras, or is it just his El Rayo-x period? And if it's not, how would one describe his music? Not that it REALY matters to me, I like it anyway, but still..... I'll try and find that Wild Tchoupitoulas album, if I can here in Europe! I guess my anitial question: What does Jacomo finane mean? would be : (Brother) John is gone. Right/ Yo

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,guitarist
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 12:15 PM

Lindley's music is influenced by a huge range of American folk and popular music, the New Orleans thing is only part of the picture. And it's not just American, either, he draws on all sorts of stuff.

It's not just Lindley, the foundation of that New Orleans "second line" sound is the rhythm ONEandtwoANDthreeandFOURand, which turns up everywhere from bossa nova to voodoo ceremonial music to Nigerian patty-cake games to -- you name it. Apparently it was introduced to the New World through the slave trade, it seems to originate in West Africa.

heh, it's a big subject -- people make careers out of question less complicated than this. It's interesting to follow the trail, but don't get hung up on absolute answers, you won't find many.

Jockomo fi na ne / Brother John is gone, that's one hypothesis, there are many others -- just pick one you like. :)

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 02:38 PM

I'll pick "Brother John is Gone"... K? I guess you're right guitarist, and I don't realy want one answer I guess. If I say here that I like David Lindley people say: Oh, and what kinda music does he play?

I wonder, do you know what Lindley is doing with Wally Ingram now? If you do, who else plays that kinda music? Or did I allready ask you that? Did you read my other thread about him? I saw them a couple of weeks ago playing in a bar here in Holland! Awsome! Well youguys gave me lots to do, and than to think that I was just getting into Cajun....uuch.... Yo.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Sean Belt
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 03:12 PM

I've heard, though I can't recall the source or point you in the way of a verification, that the phrase "Jakomo fi na nay" fits in with the bragging/boasting/challenging nature of the song "Brother John" as sung by the Indian gangs/tribes during Mardi Gras. The phrase is reputed to be a made up string of words which means loosely, "And if you don't like it, you can kiss my butt!"

I'm just sayin' is all....

- Sean

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,guitarist
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 06:09 PM

Yo, my guess is like Sean's -- if you listen to a lot of this Mardis Gras stuff you'll hear the phrase "Jockomo fee nah nay" or "Jockomo ah na fi na ne" over and over in different songs, and from context it always seems to mean what Sean described. If you judge just by the song "Brother John" the "John is dead" idea seems to make sense, but I think maybe that's just coincidence.

I hadn't heard the Wally Ingram stuff before your posts -- just listened to some clips at www.davidlindley.com, and it sounds like the New Orleans thing is still a big part of his style judging by "Cat Food Sandwiches". The archetype of that drumming style is Ziggy Modeliste of the Meters, so you'll probably find something to like in the Meters, Wild Tchoupitoulas, etc.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 07:01 PM

This is a bit creepy. I had a dream last night where I was in some kind of street parade. People had masks and face paint and colourful costumes and there was a lot of noise, but underneath it all everyone knew something terrible had happened. The phrase I kept hearing over and over again, underneath the din, and in slow motion, was "Jacomo Finane". Gave me the utter creeps. I hadn't heard the phrase before reading this thread. That'll teach me to stay up reading Mudcat threads before going to sleep.

Thanks for the nightmares, all.

Callie

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 12:37 AM

Next thing you know, Callie, you'll be dreaming about Spaw. And wouldn't he love that! Better try warm milk instead.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 06:43 AM

K, I'll see if I can find the Meters too then. All this changes my whole vieuw to music, this kind of music I mean. I just knew Lindley from Jackson Browne and El Rayo-X, now a whole new light starts to shine. I like his work even better, so now try and find the same stuff from other people. Living in the States makes it so much easier I guess. Here in Europe we don't know that culture, maybe the French do, but each country is so to itsself overhere. Yo.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 09:39 PM

Yo, you might like also to check out Huey 'Piano' Smith and The Clowns who were an influence on Dr John, among others. They had fine hits in the late 50s such as 'High blood pressure', 'Don't you just know it', 'Rockin' pneumonia' etc. There used to be reissues on labels like Ace and Charly.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 10:13 PM

John Dead, Grey goose gone home
And the fox in the way (run away oh?) oh

This is part of a west indian rowing shanty, any connections? Grey goose is a sailor/fisherman who goes home before the he's finished out his job. Don't know who or what John Dead is. Barry

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 12:49 AM

You're an evil man Mark Cohen!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 03:13 AM

Just a thought - I wonder if the John is Dead idea has anything to do with John Barleycorn is Dead which, as I understand it, relates to the celebration of the seasons in relation to the harvests. Planting the seed (burying John), the seed sprouting (John is alive), the crop being harvested (John is killed), and then the cycle starting agian. That all relates to a lot of primitive/ancient crop-farming cultures including the Celtic cultures, I think. The Celtic reference is to The Green Man, I think.

That opens up a whole new connection to the idea of pre-Christian celebrations and rituals being incorporated into the Christian year of celebrations etc. John Barleycorn can be related to Christ's death, burial, rebirth too.

This is just a thought that occurred to me and could be way, way off beam

Helen

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 15 Jul 00 - 03:47 AM

Not!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 01:20 AM

Well, I couldn't resist. I ordered David Linley's CD with "Brother John" on it through Amazon and it arrived today. I'm having my first listen, and think it's just great! Thanks to all the folks who aroused my curiosity in the first place.

With regards to the Mardi Gras "sing offs", can anyone recommend a good recording of these?

Callie

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Margo
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 02:13 AM

I sure would like to see the lyrics to see how the phrase might fit into the song. I remember hearing that song at the beginning of a movie with Tom Cruise in it. Could it be "Rainman"?

Margo

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 03:22 AM

GOOD FOR YOU Callie !! I think that album was my first one to. I never could find it on cd first, cause I didn't think that "Win this record" would be the title. Now I have lots of Lindley, and I like him better every day. There is one album I can't seem to find; "Mr.Dave" I don't even know if it's on cd or not. btw what do you think of the rest of the songs?

About those lyrics Margo, that's just the one little part I don't realy understand.

"He sang Jacomo fina, finane (brother John is gone) and if you ever wasn't ready, better get out the way (brother John is gone)

I don't know if that second sentence is right, but that's what I hear... Yo!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 03:41 AM

The rest of the songs are pretty good, but I haven't had a close listen, coz I've got Brother J on "repeat". hope the neighbours like it ...

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 03:53 AM

Oh I forgot. Yo: If you love "Win This Record", you'd love a a recording called "True Stories" by an Australian group called The Revelators (usually go by the name The Black Sorrows, and have recorded entire albums of Zydeco). "True Stories" is a covers album of Gram Parsons and the like. The style of "Win ..." reminds me of it a lot.

Ahh - Just listening to "Rock It With I" - fantastic!!!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: GUEST,GMT
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:11 AM

A group called "Marley's Ghost" did a great version of IKO-IKO,and those cajun words were in the chorus

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:14 AM

This is realy great Callie, I'm sitting here 1000 miles away and smiling from ear to ear 'cause somebody is listening to "my" music. I realy think it's awsome that you like it, and you'll like it more and more.. I had tapes of Lindley to play in my car, I played them for months in a row and never got board (Is that English?)

Thanks for telling me about The Revelators! That's just what I need. So,what I need to look for is True Stories by The Relevators?

If you like Win This Record so much, you just HAVE to listen to more of his albums (got money enough?!) ;-] Yo.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:27 AM

GMT "Iko-Iko" is in the chorus of Brother John? Or do you mean "Jacomo finane" ? And is Marley's Ghost the same kind of music as Lindley's? I mean, would you recommend it? Lots of questions eh? Yo.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 07:20 AM

Creole French is something the I just can't understand. It's further away from standard French than you might think. But in French "Jacques" means "James" (not John) and the word "fit," pronounced "fee", means "said" or "did." So the enigmatic phrase might mean "James said/did nane." I hope this clears things up.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:34 AM

Now I'm intrigued and can't rest til I find the answer.

I found a sound byte from the Wild Thcou... album of the Neville Bros doing "Brother John" - it was great!

I'll keep hunting for "Jacomo".

Yo: if you can't find "True Stories" through Amazon, send me a message on the personal pages and I'll send you a tape.

Callie

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 08:55 AM

Error: It's called "AMAZING Stories", and it's not for sale through Amazon.

A previous incarnation of the band, called The Black Sorrows, recorded 2 albums of zydeco music. One is called "Sonola". I don't remmeber the name of the other. The musical brains behind the band is Joe Camilleri, an inspiring musician, songwriter, teacher, etc etc. The band has changed direction a dozen times and is now doing jazz/groove stuff.

Anyway, I'm off to search for Jacomo!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Gary T
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 09:11 AM

Bud, this is from a post JenEllen made earlier in this thread: "I'd heard the the Jacomo finanais....as Jacomo being a FranglasianCajun version of John, and the finanais being the end..Brother John is Gone/Dead."There doesn't seem to be any indication that it's simply "fit", but rather that it's "finanais" (spelled finane), sometimes preceded by part of "finanais". In another fairly recent thread on the song "Iko-Iko" it was pointed out that "Jacomo" was a phonetic rendition of "Giacomo", which is a French version of the name "John".

Yo, I'm sure GMT was referring to "Jacomo finane" as the Cajun words in the chorus of "Iko-Iko". I've heard Marley's Ghost at the annual music festival in Winfield, Kansas. They have a rather eclectic repertoire, and I'm not familiar with David Lindley, so I don't know how they would compare. They did a crowd-rousing version of "Iko-Iko" which I loved listening to.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Giac
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 10:00 AM

Weeel, see if this clouds or helps clear it. My last name (where Giac comes from) is a gift from Italian ancestors, and I was told it means Jacob.

Just looked up Giacomo in my outrageously heavy Collins Sansoni dictionary:

giacomo (pop) - fare ~ (tremare) to tremble, to shake; Giacomo N.pr.m. 1 James. 2 (Bibl) Jacob.

Alrighty, then.

BTW, I don't speak Italian, I just thought the huge dictionary was cool, and have actually used it a lot.

Giacfinanebutnotdead

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Callie
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 10:03 AM

ok - I looked through all the Mardi Gras sites I could find and none of them mentioned "Jacomo". So I am prepared to accept "John is Dead" and call it a night!

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Gary T
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 10:12 AM

That makes sense to me, Giac, as I've always heard that "Jean" was the French equivalent of "John". I was repeating what I understood someone else to have said on another thread. That explanation may still be correct, but I don't know personally.

Subject: RE: Jacomo finane? What does that mean?
From: Yo
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 04:56 PM

I settle for "John is dead". It's sad but... Still, it doesn't sound right in Lindley's version of "Brother John is gone". Because.....if I understand the lyrics right, it's Brother John himself who sings Jacomo fina finane. So how can a man who's gone (he died on the battlefield) sing these words?¿ I'm still not sure.... Yo.