BS: Transatlantic Idioms

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:33 PM

Of course CC, til Colin decided to put a hatch behind the cockpit where the boot had been.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:32 PM

being an older country with far more history and sustained local language varieties, the UK has, it seems to me, a lot more idioms and colloquialisms than the USA with its mixed population and disdain for 'custom'...

I have to say that some expressions from the old country make more sense (i.e., petrol instead of 'gas'),,,but it's what you are used to)...but some, like 'knickers' don't mean anything to me...trousers would not be mis-understood here, but 'pants' are a simple word...and 'panties' as diminutive 'pants' just seems to follow.

What really amuses me is the words people use for intimate & sexual terms....another country's idioms just don't have the built in 'charge', and we will say things using the other country's slang/idiom that we would NOT say out loud in our own.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:32 PM

In 'Dictionary of American Usage and Style', it says, "Judgment: This is the preferred form in AmE and in British legal texts, even as far back as the 19th century. Judgement is prevalent in British nonlegal texts."

You learn something every day- I always assumed that in Great Britain it is always with that extra 'e'- guess I've not read many British legal texts.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:29 PM

Getting under the bonnet were you?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:29 PM

Oh god, Alex, borrowed rubbers!! Used or unused?? But even in Brit, rubbers has two meanings.......overshoes and erasers.....What is British for condom? I feel like I have heard it/should know, but can't remember.......

and Spaw, that is so right!! "English" from around the world.......even American English has too many words for motorcycle--bike, scooter, hog, bitch-ride (a rather new one, I gather) that it's hard to keep track.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 07:14 PM

One of the great joys of this joint is just this thread Murray. Before this my education was one way and now sharing is so much more fun. From the comedies and "Britcoms" to actually dealing with understanding the differences as we converse here is a big leap......and a fun one, although I have made the occasional joke that someone felt they should explain to me! I remember saying that it would be hard to imagine some 250 pound redneck named Bubba saying, "Gimmee some uv them bangers and some scones."............Didn't go over too big and it was stated to me that perhaps if Bubba had grown up calling them by those names.........Anyway, I really enjoy this part of the 'Cat!!!

I started riding British scoots (Beezers and Trumpets) when I was 14 and that was an early intro to the language we "don't share." Carbuerettor?? Hmmm, must be a Carb.......and it says I'm supposed to "tickle it"..............Okay....Never heard one laugh, but I'll tickle its ribs if I can find them............"Spring Dampeners" huh?........Hmmm....look like a shock to me but............

Later on I worked as a mainly English car mechanic and reading the manuals was always a treat.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:43 PM

Momentarily = right at that moment. "I was momentarily lost for words, but I quickly recovered, and had plenty to say."

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:40 PM

Hey, Scorch, I'm with you there....I have realised the other day that I have taken to calling folks Mates......oh well...

I got a friend who grew up in Switzerland, and in school there learned British English....well, she came to the States to go to a Christain College.....Well, in class one day, she asked a male classmate if he had a rubber she gcould borrow.....

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:31 PM

What does "momentarily" mean on your side of the pond?

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:29 PM

When I lived in a British colony the differences between American and British word usage & spelling were just the spice of life, I thought.

What did make me scratch my head were the brand name and regional words I'd never heard of: - Brawley, Biro, scrumpins, burk - (spellings ??) and the old British monetary system, which I could never figure out in American dollars & cents: -- tuppence, shilling, crown, etc.

Then there was the British habit of combining a statement and a question; "Well, you didn't remit the full amount, did you ?", which I thought was "cheeky" at first, but came to realize was just everyday usage.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:14 PM

Ahh, shades of Ghallagher!! Around here, (way out West in US of A) "trousers" is only used if you are buying a suit or renting (hiring) a Tux. Otherwise, it's pants,slacks, or jeans. We never use "denims" to mean jeans pants. "Denims" and "Leathers" imply that you are dressed head to toe in that fabric.......no specific item implied.

I guess I have read too many British novels, because I have always used "braces" instead of "suspenders". Mind you, we have fancy elastic suspenders with alligator clips instead of button loops, and if you want brace buttons on your trousers, you'll probably have t sew them on yourself. Fancy meaning, wide rainbow stripes; red, white and blue with stars, etc. We also have the more sedate plain, narrow blue/brown/black with button loops but you have to look harder for them.

"Knickers" is becoming more common everywhere in the US. Of course, sometimes it still means "plus fours" or pants that stop just below the knee.... As a result of (probably)way too much Mudcatting, I now use "bonnet" and "boot" more than "hood" and "trunk". Come to think of it, British novels and Mudcat are also responsible for my asking the bartender to "pull me a pint".........ain't international communication wonderful?!!

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 06:14 PM

Generally English speakers on the right side of the Atlantic understand most of the American idioms which have been mentioned, even when we don't use them. Well, we see enough American films and telly to keep us fairly bilingual in such matters, and able to manage most American accents without needing subtitles.

The other way round I gather is a bit more of a problem. Nothing quite so parochial as a really big country, which is big enough for the inhabitants to fall into the habit of thinking it's a whole world. (cf China)

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:41 PM

Yer losts of shrubs = a shrubbery. Although for some reason lots of rubs is never a rubbery.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bert
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:41 PM

You're right Alex, Americans however seem to misuse "momentarily" to mean soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:37 PM

The one I was always puzzled by was the use of "presently" to me "in just a little bit now." In America, "presently" means RIGHT NOW (in the present).

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bedubya
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 05:22 PM

Okay.

Somebody from the Eastern side of the Atlantic help this poor dumb Yank out on this one.

"Shrubbery" as used by the Monty Python guys in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" when the evil knight says, "We want a shrubbery!" Is this accepted usage or a joke? In the States we would never say "a shrubbery" to indicate a single plant. We would say "a shrub". A mass planting of shrubs would just be "shrubbery", or a specific mass planting would be "the shrubbery", but never "a shrubbery".

Cheers,

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bert
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:24 PM

Jewellery is one that still gets me. I can't get used to saying joolree.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:23 PM

Murray, you may be right, now that I look in my pocket Webster's. Judgement is an 'alternative' spelling, but not necessarily British. Oh, well. So much LABOUR lost.

C.C.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:17 PM

CC , I laughed too, but, getting into pedantic mode, here, and NOT having my OED handy, I take issue with you that "judgement" is the accepted British spelling. "Judgment" methinks. Still, I have been wrong before .....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: gnu
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 04:10 PM

Chicken Charlie... the key of "oi"..... excuse me, I have to get some paper towel to wipe my tea off the screen. Thanks. I needed that laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:57 PM

Dear Murray--

Trying to be polite to Empire Loyalists, I will say that you chaps seem to count the floors of a building somewhat oddly. I get the impression that the "first storey" of a building in London is the first floor above street level, whereas the "first story" of an American building IS the street level. And the American million/British million is just stupid; whichever one of us is responsible for that one ought to be ashamed. Funniest, to my jaded mind, is "Knock me up some time," given the fact that in somewhat archaic American, that would mean "Get me pregnant," rather than "Come see me." You would say, "Directly he came in, he sat down," as opposed to our "Directly after he came in, he sat down." The only ones that have given me personal problems was (1) getting told off by the boss for using a perfectly good British spelling [judgement with an e] inadvertently, and (2) trying to jam with an Aussie and being unable to decide whether the key of "oi" was the key of A or the key of E. Had just tune him out and watch his fingers.

God Save this Thread!

Chicken Charlie

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bert
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:54 PM

and 'vest'

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:53 PM

Actually, now that I think about it, while we are on the subject of gent's apparel ("Suits you, Sir ") I still don't quite have "suspenders " in my subconscious just yet. Well, I do , but not in the American sense.......

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:46 PM

I suspect most people in the US rarely, if ever, hear the word "trousers". Pants or slacks are much more commonly heard. I suspect trousers appears a bit more frequently in print - but not much more frequently.

In fact - I remember having to explain to some people what we were talking about after having sung "Donald where's your trousers"

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:40 PM

= "All those " .....

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:38 PM

I hear you, Wavestar. A; tose were problematic at first. Actually, can you explain in more detail, exactly what does an American think when he/she hears the word "trousers"?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:32 PM

I still trip over them all the time, Murray, but the one that has caused me the most trouble over all, I'm sure, is pants / trousers. For those who don't have the trouble: Pants, in America, are the divided clothes on wears on the bottom half - underpants, panties, or underwear are the more intimate garments you'd rather your boss didn't see. Trousers are... archaic and formal. In Britain, trousers are outer wear, pants or all types are not to be shared on the streets.

Cookie and biscuit are also a problem, but don't earn the surprised looks. Also school/college vs. University.

Simplest things cause the most trouble.

-J

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:25 PM

Hollowfox, Conservative MP's have been known to "rent" youths, but we don't really want to go there .......

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:19 PM

Don't ask an American if you can bum a fag or ask him how the craic is.

And don't be too shocked if you hear that the American has his keys in his fanny pack.

p.s. petrol and lorry used to throw me...instead of gas and truck...oh so do some items of clothing, like a 'pull' when its cold out

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Hollowfox
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:14 PM

Just curious, Murray, do they rent people in the UK?

Subject: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Apr 01 - 03:09 PM

I know there have been previous threads on Mudcat about British and American linguistic differences and I don't want to rehash all of this, BUT, I would like to know, what the most persistent home-grown usages are , both for Brits in America, and even more interesting, (for me at any rate) for Americans in Britain.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. I have just about got a grip on the American language. I walk on the "sidewalk", I buy my groceries at the "store", and I put "gasoline" in my tank". So far so good. All these usages are second nature now.

But the one thing that is not second nature is the American use of "rent", where the British would say "hire". Now, I am well aware of the difference, but the other night, I was discussing having my carpet cleaned, and I was saying I would hire a cleaning machine and the other person was saying, No, you can do it yourself, and for thirty seconds we were talking at crosspurposes until the penny dropped..

(For the benefit of British Mudcatters, Americans "rent" cars, tools, carpet-cleaning machines etc. etc.) . They only "hire" labor.

For the benefit of American Mudcatters, in the UK we only " rent" land or property. Tools, cars and machines are "hired".

All this preamble brings me to my question. For those of you who have lived transatlantic, what has been the most difficult "foreign" linguistic usage to adjust to?

Murray