BS: Transatlantic Idioms

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 01:57 AM

This thread is well over the 100 and getting slow to load click here for Part 2

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 01:50 AM

Wavestar, glad to hear the "filling stations" are still there!

ChaosCat, where in Colorado? Anywhere near the Western Slope?

Burke, now that you mention it, neat was from the 50's beatnik era, wasn't it? As in "neato, daddio?" (Did anyone really say that?!)

I used to drive one of my sister's nuts in the late 60's when I would used the exclamation, "Man!" She was always telling me to stop it. Of course, I'd say "No way, man, you're not my mother!"**BG**

I grew up with momentarily being used both ways. And, people used to say rubbers over here, too, although I don't hear it as often now.

Do you in the UK have the equivalents to: "You make a better door than a window? Close the door, were you born in a barn? Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn?

katstilllovin'thisthread

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Edmund
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 01:24 AM

During World War I (that's right ... one) my father had a difficult time in a London department store, once, attempting to buy a spool of thread. As Dad would tell it, that the clerk (clark) mulled over the phrase a bit mutterring "a spool of thread ... a spool of thread. Oh" he exclamed, you must mean a reel of cotton!"
Edmund

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: ChaosCat
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:30 PM

~Blushing~ apparently, in my fervor, I transposed letters and numbers myself. I meant using numbers instead of letters, eg; "that's really nauz-E8-ing..."

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: ChaosCat
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:26 PM

Don't even talk to me about place names... I grew up in the southwest and Colorado, and am now a Washington, (Northwest, not DC,) transplant. Everything here seems to be named in Tlingit. It took me years to get my mouth around Cle Elum and Puyallup and Tulalip, and I still can't properly pronounce Oyehut!

I have recently accepted defeat in my attempt to re-introduce the proper use of 'nauseated', 'nauseous', and'nauseating'.

Is anyone else a little disturbed by the vicious trend of using letters instead of numbers, and excessive phoneticism? Maybe our kids were a little too hooked on phonix. Frankly, it gives me the creeps!

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 08:09 PM

...or even a rubber johnny. I'm sure I'm not the only John/Jonathan who at school used to get plagued with "can I borrow your rubber, Johnny?"

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 07:59 PM

So do lots of Brits, Kendall. Or a rubber, or a johnny or too many more to mention

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 07:38 PM

Sean Connery, in the film Medicine man called a condom a sheath.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 06:07 PM

"Former" will replace most instances of "disused".

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:53 AM

Jim, here is my British take: disused means no longer used (as) and I think implies a final condition.

A vacant appartment is still used as an appartment but is currently unoccupied. If it is no longer used or formaly used as an appartment, it is disused.

Obsolete equipment and suplus material may still be used or perhaps sold, in which case it is not disused.

Broken down equipment is presumably awaiting repair...

I would not use disused when reffering to clothing.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 11:24 AM

I have picked up at least one word that is common in Britain but rarely heard in America: "disused." It means, as I understand, "no longer used for its original purpose (although it might be used for a different purpose)." For instance, you might say, "Squatters were living in a disused warehouse" or "a disused power plant was turned into an art gallery."

Americans use a variety or words to convey this idea. We might speak of vacant apartments, abandoned buildings, cast-off clothing, obsolete equipment, broken-down machinery, surplus materials, and so on, while Britons might call any of these things "disused." And there are certain situations where only "disused" fits. What else should I call the rowing machine in my basement? It's not obsolete; it's state-of-the-art. It's not surplus; it's the only one I have. It's not abandoned; I still claim ownership. It's not derelict; it's in perfect working condition. It's not unused; that would imply brand-new. It's just that I don't use it any more, therefore, it's disused.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Burke
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 10:12 AM

The usage of neat as in 'neat guitar picking' is relatively recent. I remember being taught it was slang & not proper. Along the same lines as cool. I think the term I hear from teenagers now is wick-ed.

The British usage that always throws me is referring to the taste of food, or maybe it's just sweets, as lovely, beautiful or even gorgeous. Gorgeous chocolates. We only use these for how something looks.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: kendall
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 08:21 AM

When I was in the service, we used the word "Chicken shit"

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Terry K
Date: 16 Apr 01 - 04:20 AM

Long Firm Freddie - don't even start to explain the Nelson!

Momentarily was mentioned earlier. In the US it means "in a moment" whereas in UK it means "for a moment".

For me it's a hoot to hear the announcement in the 'plane "we will be landing momentarily" - implying to me that we will merely touch down and then go straight back up again.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: The Walrus
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 05:13 PM

Jim,

In the UK (and assume Ireland, thanks to a shared history), bullshit does actually have more historical roots, but, it seems that it refers to "physical" nonsense rather than verbal. "Bullshit" as far as the military were concerned, was the apparently pointless cleaning, polishing or the "time wasting" jobs found for squaddies and matelots (do these terms count as idioms?), my late father (called up in July 1939)used, occasionally, when engaged in the odd boring job, be heard to sing a ditty including the lines:
"... How green is my Blanco,
How sqare is my kit
That's how we win wars
With all this bullshit..."
(I regret that I never learned the song). Bullshit was usually shortened to the more socially acceptable "bull" (indeed, in some places, giving something that extra - often not strictly necessary - clean/polish is still called "bulling")

Good luck.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: kendall
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 01:40 PM

In Scotland there are three towns named, Tongue, Lick and Bun.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: gnu
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 12:43 PM

Mets - oh oh. This thred could go on forever if you start on Newfie placenames.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Metchosin
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 12:36 PM

Gee, did the people there emigrate to Dildo in Newfoundland?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: GUEST,Wavestar
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 11:11 AM

Kat - My father just came home from Colorado and happily told me he'd been able to buy gas at his favorite filling station- you guessed it! I think he was as amused as you.

When I first came to Britain I went into the University stationary shop, and I glanced at the cards - boy was I shocked! The humour here is so casually obscene! The attitudes to sex may be more victorian, but you wouldn't know it.

Besides, they have a town called Twatt.

-J

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 08:39 AM

Sorry, this thread had got to 111 postings and I was uncomfortable standing on one leg.

LFF

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: gnu
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 08:28 AM

Kat... Nye-ahs is slang around here for Nye-ass, but is pronounced Niiice in mixed company. What about Brit slang for Nye-ass ? Not the (c)rude ones. I'm thinking more along the terms like "pretty" rather than "ieedat".

Kendall... eh ?

PS... Steven doesn't make movies, he makes abominal crap, know what I'm saying ?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: kendall
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 06:52 AM

There is another abomination in our language which has surfaced recently. More and more often these days I hear, interspersed in their ramblings.."know what I'm saying?" Does this piece of verbal crap come from Steven Sagal movies?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Gervase
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 06:35 AM

Oh, the word "sweet" used to curdle the blood of any British male. If you were described as "sweet", it meant "inoffensive, quite nice, but certainly not shaggable - the sort of person you could introduce to your granny but wouldn't want to swat spit with.."

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Mudlark
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 02:22 AM

Language I can usually make out from context, but.....the whole English school system remains Greek to me. I've had it explained several times but can't seem to equate it with US education, especially of the higher variety.

I don't care, being an autodidact myself....

nancy

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bert
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 01:49 AM

And in England 'gross' means 'big'

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 01:26 AM

Nice, to me, would usually mean pleasant, esp. a person who is nice is pleasant to be around/spend time with. If we had a nice time, it was a pleasant time.

Sometimes, one of will use NICE, with an inflection, a kind of drawing it out, so that is almost two syllables, as in Nye-ahs. That would be as a comment, i.e. someone telling us the won the lotto and one of us saying "Nye-ahs!!!" meaning sweet, great, wow, etc.!

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Apr 01 - 01:17 AM

Murray, speaking only for myself, I remember as a girl, when we said of a boy that he was 'nice', it usually meant that he was respectful and not too exciting!

Nowadays, I suppose I still use it somewhat the same way. In other words, if it's a person I want to know better, I'll say, So and so is 'interesting'- I won't use the word 'nice'.

On the other hand, we might say something like, He comes from a nice family- that, I think, connotes respectability.

I wonder how other people see the term?

Of course, nice has moved from its original meaning of fastidiousness or meticulousness. I've never heard it used that way.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 06:26 PM

They don't care about offending out here in the West, Jim. In Colorado and Wyoming, we have convenience stores which have huge signs with their name:

Kum and Go

LOL! I couldn't believe it the first tiem I saw one!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: bill\sables
Date: 14 Apr 01 - 06:07 PM

Ladies hairdressers in the UK have a habit of using puns for their Salons, A few I have seen lately are "Kurl up and Dye," "Cut and Dried," and "Cutting Room Floor,"
Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 07:29 PM

On my last trip to Britain I was surprised to see the off-color jokes and puns that worked their way into the names of some businesses. I saw a hamburger restaurant called "Burger Off" and a shop that sold brass hardware for doors called "Knobs and Knockers." A guy up the street from my in-laws had apparently named his house "Far Corfe" (i.e. f**k off).

I love it. Of course, Americans make jokes like that, too, but they're unlikely to put them into print in the form of a big sign hanging on a building. We wouldn't want to risk offending someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:28 PM

Another question has occurred to me. It is common knowledge, I assume, that Americans use the word "neat" where Brits would use the word "nice". "Neat shirt", "Hey , really neat guitar-picking" (I can only speak from personal experience, you understand. In Britain, "neat" means "tidy", "well-ordered").

What I don't know, however, and would dearly love to have explained, is the exact connotation that Americans put on the word "nice".

Looking forward to elucidation.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:12 PM

"First name" runs up against the problem that Chinese people typically have the given name last rather than first. But to confuse matters further, to be polite and avoid confusion they will often reverse the order of their names.

So "given name" is preferable. But I'd automatically use "Christian name" when talking about myself or people for whom it was the natural term to use. Do other religions and cultures have equivalent terms?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 04:00 PM

Alex, you have cleared up my puzzlement regarding "visit". I didn't really understand Dave O's and Kat's postings until you astutely put your finger on the nub. And yes, you are right, we would visit someone, but we would not, while there, be visiting "with" them.

We might be talking with them, gossiping with them, socializing (sorry, socialising) with them, but in Britain we would not describe ourselves as having "visited with" them. FWIW, I think "visiting with" is actually a very useful term, and one that Britain might do well to adopt.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 11:16 AM

I agree that if we were to adopt an international standard for dates and times, the most logical sequence would be year/month/day/hour/minute/seconds/fractions-of-seconds. The largest units go farthest to the left, just the same as when we write other kinds of numbers. (Feet and inches; pounds, shillings, and pence; whatever.) Depending on the context, you could drop units from either end of the string if they aren't meaningful.

In the meantime, to avoid confusion, I think we should write the year as 4 digits, and write the month as a 3-letter abbreviation. Then, regardless of whether you write 13-Apr-2001, 2001-Apr-13, or Apr-13-2001, the meaning is always clear. But I digress from the original topic of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:42 AM

the date thing seems to be a prickly thing for some...I wonder--when you tell someone a date while speaking, how do you say it? I'd say I was born on 'May 20th'...thus, it is natural to write 05/20...if your speech says something like "I was born on 20 May", I can see why you'd prefer it the other way. We in the US just 'mostly' say December twelveth, June eighteenth...ect...although sometimes it IS " the third of July" ....no easy answer, hmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: gnu
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:14 AM

Perhaps my memory fails me, but when I began my engineering studies in 1975, we were issued an SI document which had this standard.

Anyway, it's easier to file and search starting with the broadest definition and narrowing it down from there, so I have, since 1975.09.??, used the ymd convention. Of course, I don't care what anyone else uses - makes no nevermind to me. Just don't call me late for dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 09:23 AM

gnu, I may be wrong but I don't think that dates form any part of SI.

A standard for dates is International Standard ISO 8061. Some details can be found here

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: gnu
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 08:56 AM

SI = Systems Internationale ( = Metric System, partially ) time is now, on my watch, 2001.04.13.09:55:52ADST

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Fiolar
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 08:32 AM

Guys - you'll never get to the end of the differences in the way the meanings of words have changed over the years. Don't forget that many English words in the States still mantain their original meanings and date back to Elizabethan and Jacobian times whereas in Britain the language has changed a lot. Also many other immigrants to the USA have brought their own words. By the way I'm surprised no one has mentioned "ginger nuts" yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: okthen
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:52 AM

So, having substituted "root" for "rowt" for many years in films (movies) it has only just struck me that Chuck Berry sings "root" 66. If this has been mentioned before, I missed it.

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 04:48 AM

For me, putting the month first (although both ways seem to have their own logic) is almost as disruptive as trying to drive on the left side of the road in North America. Fortunately it just causes chaos in my bookkeeping and not mayhem and death.*BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 03:52 AM

Customary in USA is mm/dd/yy. Except in the military, where they put the month in the middle, but usually spell it out (e.g. 04APR01). On the continent, I was taught to do it dd.mm.yy. With periods instead of slashes.

So I foolishly figured if it has slashes it starts with the month, and if it has periods it starts with the day.

Nothing is ever so easy.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 03:48 AM

Oh, and when you tell someone that the wharf they just built or their boat is "skookum", if they don't come from the Pacific Northwest, you just get a blank look.

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 03:36 AM

Not an idiom and trivial for sure, but something that has been bugging me lately, particularly during tax time, is the order of dates. In Canada it used to be no problem....day/month/year..or 12/04/00, but in the last few years, when I've had to sort receipts by date, there no longer seems to be any consistancy and a receipt of 12/04/00 could be the 4th of December or the 12th of April 2000. Does the US use a different date order than Canada and this be the lack of consistancy lately?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:37 AM

It's 2 different meanings of the word "visit" -- to call on, and to speak with. Thus I might visit you so we could visit with one another. Maybe they don't have the 2nd meaning in Old Blighty?

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Amergin
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:22 AM

Well, Katdarling, I would spell it out for you....but I have yet to hear of any Wyomingfolk who could read....

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bert
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:10 AM

It was when I was last in England ('81) as also was 'Dunkie'. 'Sports gear' and 'Packet of Three'

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Peg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:32 AM

In the film "My Beautiful Laundrette" one character referred to a condom as a French letter...of course he was saying something looked all shrivelled, like a French letter. I think I was the only person in the theatre who laughed...and maybe one of the only people who got it..is this obscure term still in use?

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:23 AM

Murray, I think I used "with" because it was never in person. It's all been online, both in text and verbal. I agree with Dave. I do say I visit someone, but if I talk to them on the phone etc. I visit with them.

I hadn't heard the condoms things until we got BBC America, so maybe it is a thespian affectation, but I do love it...sounds so droll, in a way.

Les, thanks for the info on the Archers, I will look for it (thanks, Rana) and give a listen (how's that for an idiom?**BG**) How do I manage the dialects...I don't if you mean some of the Brit ones I mentioned before...oh I catch enough to figure the gist of what they are saying, BUT, as I said before, subtitles would be good!**BG**

Amergin, could you, would you spell that out for me? You Idahoans all sound like your mouths are full of taters!**BG**

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Transatlantic Idioms
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 11:15 PM

there is a very useful term in German...die 'umgangsprache'...which refers to the sort of 'default' dialect used in movies and on the national news programs.

Most countries have an equivalent of this, and it would be useful if people would learn to approximate it when not in their social 'in group'..Yes, *grin*, that implies forcing yourself to pronounce those Rs at times! Lots of folks can switch between local dialect/idiom and the 'common' language when necessary...many African-Americans do it every day. Sure, there is usually a residual, identifiable lilt, but it can be VERY useful to be aware of those parts of one's speech which are idiom, slang and dialect and to know the 'common' versions.

(I can't help but grin when a friend of mine from refers to a certain chanty singing group..."The Boarding Party".....as "The Bawding Potty"...)