Help: Where do fadas come from?

Subject: Where do fadas come from?
From: GUEST,Brían
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 02:22 AM

I am embarassed to admit that most of what I learned about the Irish language I learned from books instead of the streets like everybody else. To make matters worse, my parents never told me about fadas, the never used them, I suppose(There were 4 or 5 of us the last I counted). I managed to borrow some from www.daltaí.com(They probably won't miss them, being more experienced than me). I was told by someone in another thread that if you hit ctl&alt at the same time, you can get all the fadas you need, but I think that was just an urban folk-tale because nothing happened for me. Do you folks all have social conditioning I lacked in early development? Am I missing something or all you folks struggling with cut & paste the same as me? Táim an-bhuíoch d'aon duine ar bith go bhfuil eolas acu faoin fadhb seo. Slá n go fóill.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 03:36 AM

On PCs it mostly works if you hit ctrl+alt+vowel; in Word you have to hit ctrl+' then the vowel.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 03:38 AM

By the way, you know there's a maillist for Irish learners at Gaeilge B

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 08:42 AM

This comment presumes that you use Windows. All you need to do to get fadas is the following. Click Start, then Settings, then open Control Panel. Next click on Keyboard and when the popup opens, click on the language tab. Click the Add button, then select English (Ireland). This does not replace your current language, it simply adds it as an option. When you want to type a fada, simply go to the bottom tray on your desktop. Look to the right and you will see icons, and one of them will be En. This is your language icon. Click it and a popup will appear that will have your current language highlighted and also will show the English (Ireland) option. Click on the Ireland option and you are set to go. All you have to do is hold down the alt button while you type the letter and voíla, you have a fada. You can change it for one letter or leave it on and it will be on until you reboot. Your normal keyboard configuration will be back once you change it or reboot in which case your defaults take over. The only thing to remember is that the Irish keyboard has certain keys that are different. The letters are the same, but, for example, the @ and the " are reversed. Só typé áwáy ánd hávé nó féár of fádás.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: LR Mole
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 08:51 AM

Muddas, like everyone else.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:29 AM

and if you DO have a PC, there is a little program that is wonderful if you type a lot of fadas, ümlauts, or any other é ú ó stuff! Just go get

AllChars

and you'll have total access from you keyboard with 'almost' intuitive grasp of how to do it! Free, of course...*smile* (It's fun to just play with, 'cause you can also do Œ ™ ¥ and such)....have fun!

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:31 AM

here is a direct link to the page that shows you their system....dierct link thingy

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:37 PM

Reference to the Alan Sherman song should help!!:)

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:47 PM

Paste áwáy?

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:49 PM

That was from View/Source... now let's see... direct screen copy and paste áwáy?

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:50 PM

So what rude thing have I been calling our Gaelic Goddess by leaving out the fada?

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:56 PM

mudda?

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 01:59 PM

(hi Bill)

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: GUEST,Brían
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 05:22 PM

Héy thís réálly wórks! Go raibh míle maith agat a Mhic!

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Bert
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 06:30 PM

I was going to say fa-da-da-land, but I like Bill's answer much better.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 09:38 PM

éœæØ¥¿€çÇ£ð.....ߺ™ all done with the program noted above ^

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 09:38 PM

éœæØ¥¿€çÇ£ð.....ߺ™ all done with the program noted above ^

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 09:54 PM

Níl a bhuíochas or, aoi a Brian.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Big Mick
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 10:13 PM

oops, that should have been ort

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:36 AM

Isn't the "fada" the name of a Portugese dance

anyway for accent marks and other diacritical marks in Mudcat contributions it really is best to use the longer method which you will find at this symbol chart
For fuller discussion see the 'fada' in Irish vowelsthread.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 12:31 PM

Phillipa,

Are you sure you aren't conflating the Rinnce fada with fado, the depressive Lisbon song idiom? ;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 01:25 PM

I dunno where they come from, but fadas and umlauts and tildes sure give us fits. They get lost or change into gobbledy-gook when they're included in the Digital Tradition. For a long time, Dick Greenhaus resisted the inclusion of songs with unusual characters in the DT, but he added sevaral this year, and they're mostly a mess. The DT appears in many different formats, and the conversion to various formats makes the fadas go bonkers.
They're also death on search engines, so I delete them from thread titles if I find them. If you use them in message titles, you do it at your own risk. It's hard to send personal messages to people like Brían and Áine.
-Joe Offer

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 01:36 PM

Ok, third times a charm?

Of general interest - but maybe more so to those like Bill D who like new toys to play with: Microsoft has fairly recently added "kits" to permit displaying toolbars and such - in IE6 only, unfortunately - in any of about 30 different languages. Also, I don't see Gaelic as one of the "new" languages, but I believe you get all you need there with the English/localized versions most people get with Windows.

If you visit Microsoft Windows update the site offers to download an "upgrade utility" that will look at your machine and then send a list of "what you need" back to the site. It will then offer to download and install whatever you select.

If you don't already have IE6, it will show it as a "critical update," and after (reluctantly) accepting the download and looking it over, I don't think most people will have a problem with "moving up" to this version. It does incorporate some better security features than earlier versions, without the necessity for extensive separate upgrades.

If you haven't kept up to date, you are likely to find several other "critical updates" recommended, some of which are very large and can take quite a while to download and install. You don't have to take them, but probably should, since most of them are security related. You can bypass them and come back later when you have time, if you want.

The "new language kits" are shown as optional items: Windows update (typically 30 items). Depending on which you select, you can display IE6 toolbars in Polish, Chinese, Japanese, Tai, Korean, German, etc....

Note that this is separate from the ability to display web site content written in these languages.

A cautionary(?) note: the site will ask if you want to receive notices of future critical updates, but it asks so subtly that you're likely to get it witout realizing you agreed to. This is a good thing if you're at all interested in keeping up with security on your machine. When a new critical update is avialable, you'll get a pop-up that tells you its there, and offers (but doesn't require) installation.

John

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:53 AM

For minute I got mixed up with "Fados" - they definitely come from Portugal.

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 12:34 AM

How big of an issue is this, anyway? Am I under the correct impression that fadas, like the German umlauts, are pronunciation guides, and leaving them out does not change the word's meaning?

If they wreak havoc on search engines and format conversions, just leave them out. The text will still be intact.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 04:13 AM

Well, umlauts do have an effect on the meaning of a German word in may cases, and the German s-zed is also useful - but an umlaut can be represented by an "e" after the vowel ("muede" instead of müde), and s-zed as "ss" ("muss" instead of muß).

Spanish tildes, as in niño, don't have a replacement, but I think they're more of a pronunciation guide - people know what to pronounce when they see "nino."

I can't comment on Irish words, except to say that the fadas give us fits in thread titles and in the Digital Tradition. I know some have tries to use slashes and spaces to replace fadas in Irish songs, but that doesn't seem to work very well, either.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Where do fadas come from?
From: GUEST,Ceejay
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 09:33 AM

"Fadas" are accents which indicate that the vowel is long. Omitting them (or inserting them incorrectly) can change the meaning of a word, for example 'Seán' (Shawn) is a common Irish name but leaving out the accent makes 'sean' (Shan) meaning 'old'. Fortunately most Irish readers are alert to the problem and can get by if they must, without the accent, but it is a bit like not bothering to cross one's 't's. I have found that quite a few languages use similar accents and they are a great aid in pronouncation once one is familiar with them.