Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 May 01 - 09:28 AM

Oh, I don't know. People forget that in 1936, the Oxford Union students' society voted never to take up arms; and that the Americans were not interested in fighting in another European War. My uncle was a British conscientious objector for the first 3 years of the war, and then he couldn't stand it any more. 18 year olds are as ignorant and anti-everything as they ever were. But they will sign up to fight, and act heroically and badly, depending. If you read the memoirs of officers in World War I, they are appalled by the new recruits; and then within months they find themselves bathing their mudsoaked feet to keep them from getting sores.
The problem is that those days are gone: what we lack is the courage to struggle to work towards the elimination of war (George W. Bush's missile shield is an act of despair). Peacemaking and peacekeeping are the new heroism -- it just doesn't look glamorous.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GeorgeH
Date: 29 May 01 - 08:45 AM

Sorry to disappoint whoever it was praised us brits. for holding out as we did - but we weren't alone; the Russians did an even greater job of holding out, and paid a far greater price (ok, so millions more of their citizens also paid a price after the war, but that's another issue).

Generally I dislike the "re-write history guessing games" but it frightens me to think what would have happened had Germany not opened her second front against Russia.

As for the original question . . . at the age of 5 (which would make it about 1953) I had my tonsils removed. On my return from hospital awaiting me was a wind-up gramophone, a present from my Grandfather (the last wealthy member of our family, but that's several other stories!!). Of the three 78s he sent with it one of them had "Run, Rabbit Run" on one side, and "Hang out the washing" on the other. I'd guess these were the Flannagan and Allan recordings.

I'd also guess (no evidence at all) that these were amongst the very few "peoples" songs (as opposed to "art songs, which is where I'd place "Bluebirds") from WWII to become popular.

George

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 29 May 01 - 12:36 AM

LTS, sorry about that, I always thought it was Barkley! Don't know that I have ever seen the words to the song. Were you around during WWII, Liz The Squeek?

You and many others obviously didn't care for Vera Lynn, but she WAS very popular during WWII.

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Bill D
Date: 28 May 01 - 09:53 PM

"Five Minutes More" was a hit song when I was in 2nd grade,,,would make it 'about' 1946...I remember making up kids parodies of it....

My wife has been singing "Bless Em All" for several years, learned from her father's little WWII songbook....

And a woman we know does a delightful version of "There'll be Bluebirds Over the White Cliffs of Dover" on the ukelele.....those songs will be around a LONG time.

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: GUEST,Pete M at work
Date: 28 May 01 - 09:32 PM

For the full impact of that sobriquet for Dame V, you have to ralise that "Moaning minne" was also the nickname that sqaddies gave to the Wermacht's Nebelwerfer multibarrel mortar, one of the most effective and hated indirect fire weapons in Normandy. Can't say I'm a fan of Dame V's but I wouldn't have thougt she was that bad. Gracie Fields, now thats a different story. Pete M

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 May 01 - 02:14 AM

That's Berkeley Square to most Brits, and there hasn't been a nightingale there since before the Romans came!!

I too, loathe and detest Dame Vera, especially when there were so many other great people around at that time. Once Wailing Winnie (another nickname we had for her) got in on the act, not even Bloody Gracie Fields had a chance (now there's a voice that could strip paint.....).

LTS

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 28 May 01 - 12:35 AM

Thanks for the opinions, Liz and Jen. I think things have changed considerably across the pond too. The patriotic attitude so prevlent in those days in the U. S., is no more either, I think.

One of my favorite WWII songs made popular by Vera Lynn was "A Nightengale Sang in Barkley Square."

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 01 - 06:23 PM

My Mother-in-Law, who lost her first husband in WW11 and was (still is) quite a lass herself always refers to Vera Lynne as 'Moaning Minnie'! Dunno if this adds anything but I thought it was interesting anyway.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 27 May 01 - 06:10 PM

No, Dugger, thread creep perfectly acceptable!! Of the younger family I have, I don't see the same attitude that I saw in my grands and older family when I was young. Of the four, the only one I have left is my Nana, and to this day she still whispers the word 'German'! (Then again, she still thinks Alice Cooper is a 'nice young lad, bought a house for his mum, he did..' and that Aerosmith is just one guy named Harold Smith who happens to be really, really good....)

Thanks so much for the information (and yet another movie to add to the list)

The 'Five Minutes More' I have is by the Squadronaires. Vera Lynn was the 'Silver Wedding Waltz' and 'I'll Make Up For Everything'. 'May I Call you Sweetheart' is definately a 'may'..but has the same melody. There is also a 'When You're in Love' by Reggie Goff (?).

~Jen

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:38 PM

Doug - probably not. Although there are still great reserves of strength of character, just look at the way some behave as soon as there is news of a rail strike, a post strike or fuel shortage. The share all attitude has become replaced by a f**k you, Jack, I'm alright attitude as witnessed by a woman in my local supermarket during the fuel 'crisis'. She had at least 6 loaves of bread in her trolley but still put up a fight for the last one on the shelf which was about to be taken by a woman with 3 children in tow and hardly anything in the trolley.

Bless 'em all may well have been written about the time of the play of the same name, which was WWI. 1916 would be about right, given the mildness of the language. The F version probably didn't become popular until after WWII, when it became more acceptable to swear in song. Funny how we now accept the F version as the original.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 27 May 01 - 05:29 PM

Cranky Yankee, well said! You evidently entered the armed services a year before me. And you are absolutely right about the English people at that time, I think.

What do you think, McGrath and others, would the population react the same wa today that they did in the early 1940's? (Thread creep, I know but I'd be interested in any comments).

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: toadfrog
Date: 27 May 01 - 04:35 PM

Bless 'em All is located at klik. I do not think the words were written by Irving Berlin; they sound like Rudyard Kipling. And to me they sound very much like a traditional song. And they would seem to antedate WWII, and probably WW I as well. Ewan McColl sings it on a record identified at the abv. site. And my father, who served in the American army, remembers singing those lyrics, and it appears all those others are probably just parodies. I've not heard of Bertha Wilmont, but she may have composed one of the parodies.

Lyrics to "Five minutes more" are at klak and a recording is advertised at Clique"Roll Me Over" can be located at Claque

A whole bunch of WWI British tunes are in the Cheryl Morgan songbook, for which Cluck here.

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 27 May 01 - 04:02 PM

iT AINT,"BLESS EM aLL" anyway. The first line, as I learned it in the 1947 US Army starts with the letter"F"

Of all the WWII songs from Brittain the one that got to me the most was, "There'll be Bluebirds Over the White Cliffs of Dover" which was recorded by Vera Lynn. I told this story before in some other thread, but I'll say it again.

When I first heard this song it was during the time when no one knew whether or not England would survive. Things were so bad that the English People were sending their children to the U.S. and Canada so that there would be someone left to carry on if Brittain fell. My dad and I were listening to the radio one evening and they played Vera Lynn's record. I was 11 or 12 years old, my dad was in his early 40's I looked over at him and there were tears in his eyes. So, of course, I started crying.

The song says a lot about the English people's resolve, hope and faith in the future that is typical of these people.

Brittain could not have survived without the "Stuff" that we sent them. And, make no mistake about this, The German People are a very resourcefull courageous and strong race. WE WOULD NOT HAVE COME OUT OF THIS WAR UnSCATHED, AS WE DID, IF ENGLAND HAD NOT HELD OUT ALL BY THEMSELVES, AS THEY DID.

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 May 01 - 02:11 PM

I have a Flanagan and Allan compilation -- what are you looking for by way of info?
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 May 01 - 12:29 AM

I second what Doug said, Walrus, rent the movie!:-)

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 27 May 01 - 12:20 AM

Walrus: If you haven't seen the movie, "Hear My Song," you should do so. It's not wonder the song reminds you of Joseph Locke. But I'll tell you no more! :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: The Walrus
Date: 26 May 01 - 06:20 PM

Bless 'em All is actually pre WWII (Roy Palmer dates the first version as coming from 1916) but it seems to have become popular during the war. There are several versions around (some of which would NEVER have been recorded at the time), I believe one of the more popular (repeatable)recordings was either by Vera Lynn or Anne Shelton (I can't remember which). I'm not sure if it's the same, but I always associate "Hear My Song" with Joseph Locke (I may have it on one of my late mother's L.P.s somewhere, I'll take a look in the morning. This may sound odd, but try looking for one or two of the suppliers for WWII re-enactment as they might well have copies of these songs on CD.

Sorry I can't help .

Walrus

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 01 - 06:02 PM

Me, too, DougeR!! I bought the saoundtrack the day I saw the movie, because I thought so much of the whole thing. That's one of the first movies in which I'd seen Gabriel Byrne.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 26 May 01 - 05:50 PM

Whoa! "Bless Em All," might have been written by Irving Berlin for his all Army show, "This is the Army." I think it was.

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: DougR
Date: 26 May 01 - 05:49 PM

I LOVED that movie, kat!

The only ones I remember from WW II are:

"Five Minutes More", recorded by Glenn Miller orchestra with Tex Beneke on vocal "Roll Me Over," but I can't rememeber who recorded it "There's a Tree in the Meadow" made popular by Margaret Whiting I wonder if "May I call you sweethert" is actually, "Let Me Call You Sweetheart," which predates WWII "Bless Em All," which I associate with being a British WWII song, but I have no proof of that.

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 01 - 03:02 PM

The Hear My Song one, was the title song tof the grand movie a few years back. I put the lyrics in THIS THREAD. I'll send you a tape of it, darlin'. There are some great ones from the soundtrack.

Bert and/or his da oughta know about the rest of these.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: Micca
Date: 26 May 01 - 02:18 PM

Jen, the Izzy is probably Izzy Bonn a Jewish artiste from around that era, I can probably find CDs with some of them on if you like......

Subject: Help: WWII & Brit'Cat Musical Quesions
From: JenEllen
Date: 26 May 01 - 01:56 PM

I received a lovely tape from a dead great-uncle in the post yesterday (don't get me started as to how weird THAT is) with some of the songs from war-time that he used to sing me in ma wee days, narrated by himself. Being born in decidedly not-war days, I would greatly appreciate any information about the songs, and also any information as to where I can purchase 'good' copies of them, this tape is apparently drawn from some well-worn LP's, and won't last long enough to suit me.

"Roll Me Over" --roll me over bless my soul we're at it again....
"Give Me Five Minutes More"
"Let Bygones be Bygones" --Izzy?
"Hear my song, Violetta" --Mantovanni?
"My Love is Only for You"--this version is accordion
"I'm Gonna Get Lit Up"--Billy Cartman?
"The Stars Will Remember"--from the movie 'smart girls don't talk'
"May I Call You Sweetheart"--Izzy again
"There's a Tree In the Meadow"--Sam Brown
"The Silver Wedding Waltz"
"Confidentially" --Reg Dixon
"Bless 'Em All" --Bertha Wilmont?
"Run Rabbit, Run" --Flannagan and Allan
"There's a Boy Coming Home On Leave"--Phoebe Daniels?
"We're Gonna Hang Out the Washing.." Flannagan and Allan
"Down Forget-Me-Not Lane" Flannagan and Allan