McCarthyism ... were you there?

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 17 - 11:32 AM

In Wichita, Kansas news about McCarthy was ummm... 'muted' a bit, as we had 3 members of the board of the John Birch Society in town. We couldn't help seeing some of it on national TV news, but TV was pretty new in town, and we only had a couple of stations..... and local newspapers were very careful what their editorials said. I barely knew about the details till I started college in 1957.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 02:58 PM

One small sample of a movie 'summing up' McCarthy was the character loosely based on him in "The Manchurian Candidate" 1962 played by the great character actor James Gregory. He is meditating how many Communists to claim have infiltrated the State Department. He is tapping the back of a ketchup bottle as the scene fades. . . into a scene in Congress where he holds up a piece of paper no one can read and is screaming "FIFTY SEVEN COMMUNISTS!" (let me know if you need the humor of this scene explicated)
That encapsulates the fictional nature of the real McCarthy's sources amd the demagoguery of the times. Plot spoiler in The Manchurian Candidate that those who were pushing the anti-Communist message the loudest were themselves Communists hiding under the canopy of fear they wrapped round themselves.
Not for nothing President Truman called McCarthy: 'The Kremlin's Greatest Ally'.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 17 - 02:21 PM

I wasn't around in the 50's but I remember that blacklisting folksingers was a great way to get my Dad to buy their albums. In fact, that is how I learned about it in the first place.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Aug 17 - 06:05 PM

They don't call us commies much anymore.
Now they call us Russianphobes.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Aug 17 - 11:14 AM

Pay careful attention to the Don Firth account of how McCarthy and the Republicans used Russia and the Red Scare against Democrats and card carrying liberals.

Republicans required a determined suspension of critical faculties and tremendous powers of denial.
Once again their powers of denial are beyond reproach.

Even as we entertain a nuclear war.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:26 PM

In 1964/6 I was in Chicago (or Detroit, can't recall which) and was going to play at a WEB DuBois meeting when I noticed two guys in a car, both suit-dressed--with a camera. In my young mind I thought "COPS". So, I did the only logical thing: The Finger.

I have never liked the FBI since, with one exception, and he archives stuff here.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:03 PM

Those were VERY trying times. I was a 16 year old during the worst of bad times, yet I was hauled into the FBI office in downtown Seattle and questioned about the songs I was singing.

To say that those bad days left an mark on me would be an understatement. bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:51 PM

"Will Geer worked as a landscape architect when he couldn't get work in Hollywood."

One of the most memorable moments in my life was meeting Mr Geer in NYC. I'd known about him and was introduced to him by a friend from the (what are my) old days in the mid-1960s, and I had the good sense to shut my mouth, although I doubt I could have said anything that made sense anyway, being that stammering doesn't communicate much at all, and that's all I could have done. I was in awe of him and still am. Frank could and likely did call him Will, but to me he was and is Mr Geer.

Another guy from then, when the USA in the late 50's and early '60s was still under great threat from within is Stringsinger. It took serious cajones to buck the system (just as it will take now) but thanks to those men and women and their courage we have all been shown it's possible. Carry it on, boys, carry it on.

Sorry if that embarrasses you Mr Hamilton, but it's the way I see it.

Best regards, despite our differences.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:50 PM

Stringsinger-

Thanks for your long thoughtful post, based on real experience.

The younger one's here haven't had that experience yet. The rest of us may well have packed it away. But, you're right, the "terrible times" may be with us again.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:10 PM

McCarthy has been "reincarnated" (though I don't believe in that) by Daryl Issa. Today's
GOP politicians and some Dems make McCarthy look quaint.

I supported Wallace (Henry not George) and many friends I had were blacklisted and couldn't find work in the entertainment media because of Joe McCarthy.

Most of the naive members, many ex members of the CP didn't know what Stalin was doing. They found out later. The Soviet Union did not control the CPUSA as was advertised.

Pete and Woody both got out of the Party. Woody was too individualistic for the doctrinaire. Ask Pete what he thinks of the Soviet style Communism today?

McCarthy was like many of the bigots we see today and he was a drunk. He had delusions of power and that was his real motive.

The era of the Fifties was saturated by this fear of "the red under the bed" and the propaganda of the time reminds me of the kind you hear on CNN and Fox today.

What do the French say about "the more things change"? That's why being an American is about being vigilant, not vigilantes.

I knew some of the Hollywood Ten and actors and musicians who were called up by HUAC.
They were brave people when they refused to cooperate. Everything was underground and Woody Allen's "The Front" depicts the era well. "Hecky", (Zero Mostel) knew this position in real life.

Pete Seeger wanted to sing for HUAC the song "Wasn't That A Time?" but was turned down flat. He was brave because he took the First Amendment when most took the Fifth. He nearly did time for it.

McCarthy brought out the bravery and American idealism in some people despite the fact that many others were cowering in fear.

One of the historical blights on our country was the Peekskill riots at a Wallace Rally featuring Paul Robeson. You can read about it. The song "Hold The LIne" came out of it.

The hysteria was thick as fog and everyone was afraid who had a government job or a top flight position in a corporation or the entertainment industry. I had the distinction of being called a communist by someone who didn't even know who I was, that someone, Reverend Billy Hargis, head of the Christian Anti-Communist Crusade who was finally busted for molesting one of his boy followers.   

It's disgusting to see the rebirth of the John Birch Society who were instrumental in attacking almost anyone they could, a strategy used today by the GOP.

The names Howard Hunt, Walter Winchel, JackTenney, Father Coughlin, Alexander Mitchell Palmer, Gerald L.K. Smith - these are names that are forgotten today.

Nobody knows about the McCarran Act or Red Channels today.

Robert Kennedy served under McCarthy which is not talked about much today.

The HUAC went after Robert Oppenheimer and Harold Urey also.

Will Geer worked as a landscape architect when he couldn't get work in Hollywood.

Jeff Corey got a degree in speech therapy when he couldn't get acting work either.

Don Murray, actor, ran a laundromat for a while.

Gail Sondegaard was disappeared as an actress and wife of Herbert Bieberman, one of the Hollywood Ten.

The Actor's Lab in Hollywood was closed down when the head of it, Morris Carnovsky was attacked.

Writers like Howard Fast who wrote Spartacus was targeted.

There were so many people hurt during this period, losing their careers.

Fortunately, there were Left-wing organizations that could keep actors and musicians employed on a smaller scale. In those days, we called them "bookings".

Many blacklisted folks knew each other and found a support network.

Burl Ives and Elia Kazan ratted to the HUAC on people they knew.

"Wasn't that a terrible time!"

Of course, the Weavers were blacklisted and lost their position in the music industry,
which in the long run, might have been a good thing. They were not a flash-in-the-pan
like some pop acts.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 04:10 PM

It's important to remember that being a member of the Communist Party was perfectly legal.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,coyote breath with no cookie
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 03:46 PM

Yes. Handing out "Joe Must Go" leaflets on Wisconsin Avenue in Milwaukee. My first "political" act. I hung around Mary's Bookstore in those days. I was fifteen.

CB

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: sciencegeek
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 03:41 PM

I remember the cold war & all the crazy paranoia that went with it. When I grew old enough to learn about McCarthy, I was appalled by the unfairness & how un-American he actually was. Of course, I also couldn't believe that "The Ugly American" was based on reality.

As I watch the spectacle of the Republican primary races, I am equally horrified by their antics... those who do not learn from history seem hell bent on repeating it.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 03:19 PM

I on the contrary welcome the help of the Web in making sure that if the forces of evil triumph I will be on the losing side.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 08:25 PM

You're welcome, Guest don't like McCarthy. One more thing: you may wish to look at

ixquick

Google it and open their site. You may find it useful for certain political (or other) searches.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,guest dont like McCarthy
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 07:35 PM

Thanks 999

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 01:53 PM

http://www.digitaltrends.com/web/how-to-delete-your-google-web-history/

The title of the link says it all. Better to do that than wait and see what the real results of Google's new privacy policy will be.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 01:44 PM

Was Nixon involved?

you might say that...

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 01:30 PM

Nixon was involved in it up to his eyebrows. Remember the Whittiker Chambers story? And the witch hunt he started by slandering Helen Gahagen Douglass(sp?) when he ran against her for the California senate seat.

He used the "red scare" to his full advantage whenever he good.

I well knew some of the U.W. proffesors who lost their jobs at the time. I also knew some scientists who worked on the developement of the atomic bomb that were scared to death that they'd lose their pensions. bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,guest Dick Miles
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 01:11 PM

So how involved was Nixon in McCarthyism?am i wrong in thinking he was fairly centre as a president, but he was a big supporter of McCarthyism.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Jon Corelis
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 12:25 PM

Since this forum has an international membership, maybe someone should explain that in US political discourse, "communist" means "socialist," "socialist" means "liberal," "liberal" means "moderate", "moderate" means "conservative," and "conservative" means "ranting right wing fringe looney."


Jon Corelis
Poems, Plays, Songs, and Essays

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 12:13 PM

I was there--in college.My most vivid memories are about the pervasive fear that seemed to engulf the nation. I remember my cousin, who lived on a dead-end street, trying to circulate a petition to have the street closed off as a play area....with neighbors afraid to sign any petition. I remember my then-girl-friend's father (age 60) who feared for his future as a government employee because his son was involves with some protest movements.
   It's a lot easier to be brave and defy authority when you're young.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 09:12 PM

My mom was a purdy good commie, does that count... Still is, for that matter... I call her Commie Mommie...

Me??? Too young for the Joe Show...

B~

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 07:17 PM

Hmmm...(re: above)

No, I was just a kid, but saw some of the further effects.

And, when I was in high school in the early '60s, my journalism teacher used to constantly preach, "Don't get on the mailing list! Don't get on the mailing list!" (Of anything that could be the slightest bit political, social or suspect in any way.)

Linn

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Dave Swan
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 11:02 PM

Seed! Call me. Check your PM's.
Dave

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,Joe_F
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 10:38 PM

I was in high school then -- a leftish private school. I read the papers. My impression is that McCarthyism was an opportunistic infection that ran its course. Here are the peculiarities of the '50s that seem to me to have contributed to its temporary success. (I should perhaps warn you that I am a dissenter from the religion in which blaming the victim is taboo.)

1. Moral cowardice had something of the status of a cult. It was widely identified with maturity & mental health. In some quarters it was taken for granted that true dissent was impossible: people who claimed to be thinking for themselves were actually only conforming to a deviant & therefore wicked subculture, or had merely inverted the majority's value system and perversely opposed whatever the majority approved of.

2. Many respectable liberals had been demoralized by the castastrophe of their identification with the Soviet Union.

3. Many respectable conservatives who despised McCarthy nevertheless gave first priority to fighting Communism, thought that for that purpose the masses of Americans had to be scared the hell out of, and thought that McCarthy would be useful for that purpose & could be got rid of when it was accomplished. In that respect they resembled the German conservatives who thought they could use Hitler -- with the important difference that the Americans were right & the Germans were wrong. Americans, despite much trying, have always found it impossible to come up with world-class sons of bitches. McCarthy was our attempt at a paranoid politician -- our answer to Stalin! But he wasn't serious. (As to his antiCommunism, it is well known that he was elected, the first time, with Communist support.) He did not crave power, only attention. So it was easy to cut him enough slack so that he would make a fool of himself. Once that had happened, it took only the coughs of a couple of stuffed shirts to make him dry up & blow away.

--- Joe Fineman    [e-mail]

||: Sometimes I think I am happier than I think I am. :||

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 08:16 AM

BSeed,

Wonderful to see your name on the threads again!! Come back often, you long-lost prodigal whatever!


A

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 06:44 AM

I remember it well. Anyone who saw McCarthy on TV saw right through him. Shallow, egotistical self serving drunk. His own party got fed up with his antics.
Our own Senator Margaret Chase Smith, republican of Maine read him the riot act, and she showed more balls than many other cowardly ass covering do nothings in the Senate.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: chazkratz
Date: 18 Apr 05 - 03:40 AM

I ran across this thread this afternoon when i was doing a few lyric searches on the DT, several of them successful, but one--for "Pass Me Not O Blessed Savior"--unsuccessful, but it led me to "Palace of the Czar (Shootin' with Rasputin)," a title I had to check out. The song ends with a reference to the House Committee on UnAmerican Activities, and so is linked to a few other threads that touch the subject of HUAC (or as they insisted on being called, HCUA, for obvious reasons), and I finally came to this one, the kind of thread that fostered the Mudcat Jones that strung me out for four or five years.

Back in the day, as they say, there were no links to threads from the songs in the DT--what a great addition to the service. I can easily see getting hooked all over again. Maybe it will help me break free of my current computer Joneses, jigsaw puzzles and Super Collapse.

One of the other threads, about music in response to HUAC, reminded me of this song which I think is in a book I have, __Outrateous Songs__ or something like that:

H-U-A-C
H-U-A-C
What a lucky thing it is for you and me
Our security is guarded by politically retarded
Men of unimpeachable integrity

That's the chorus. If I can find the book, I'll add some verses.


--seed

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 09 Sep 01 - 01:42 AM

Hello "ironmule" ... good grief ... who thinks up these names? Your point is a biggie! I appreciate your comments. The role of the media and the "slow news days" have a LOT to do with this issue. How do you defuse flammers? ... ignore them. Did we ignore Sen Joe McCarthy ... of course not... he helped sell newspapers ... and helped get politician re-elected. CHEERS, Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,Ironmule
Date: 09 Sep 01 - 01:20 AM

As one born in '45, the residuals of the McCarthy era were definitely a part of my upbringing. My senior year of high school found me trying to pass a required course in "Americanism VS Communism" in the Florida school system. To put some flavor to the era, this was just months after the "Cuban Missle Crisis" where we were scarily close to nuclear war. With 40yrs of hind sight, I see myself then as just about as brainwashed as a Russian kid. The whole era had many crimes committed by those who thought in absolute, black and white, patterns. One of the things I like about the media these days, is the clear evidence that every day is a "Slow News Day" by the standards I grew up with. There aren't nearly the number of atrocities being committed these days by "Our Good Guys" against "Their Bad Guys". JWSmith

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 06:34 PM

Hello All, I was one of thoughs born in 1950. There seem to be a few of us around!!! WHat I do remember is the passion , anger, and outrage Arther Miller had while talking of his time before the commity.I remember that from 1955 56 / 60. The Calder family had a wonderful chrismas party every Chrismas Eve and it was a time of celabration but also for clearing the air on wounds taken in the defence of Liberalisum.I guess everyone knows the Crusable was Miller's venting from the insanity of Mcarthy but it is even more meaningful with the memory of fear I still see in his face discribing the night mare . THe memory of that kind of fear stays with a small kid when he sees a funny ,kind man look realy scared. I hope the Crusable helped him.. All the best , GUy<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><>><><><>

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Peg
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 11:45 AM

I did an interview for the Boston Film Festival yesterday: cast, director and writer of a controversial film (L.I.E., which I highly recommend) with an undeserved NC-17 rating (there is no explicit sexual activity in the film) which depicts teenage homosexuality and portrays a known pedophile as a sympathetic character on some level (amazing performance by Scottish actor Brian Cox). The screenwriter is an ex-cop, non-Hollywood type. We were discussing the whys and hows of the NC-17 rating and this writer mentioned McCarthyism. He referred to the good senator as a "reprehensible drunk," and said having grown up in the eras of McCarthyism and the Civil Rights era, he thinks earlier witch hunts against blacks and Commies has been replaced by the same witch hunts against male homosexuals (think of Seantor Jesse Helms). Mr. Cox said this sort of prejudice is "an American disease" and went on to say that if the same sort of behavior were portrayed in heterosexual terms (in other words, a grown man seducing a willing, if underaged, girl) it would more than likely be glorified and would have received a less restrictive rating; he also said "your country puts guys who practice that sort of thing with young women on stamps!" referring of course to Elvis Presley and 14 year old Priscilla...we also discussed the rather disingenuous notion that somehow male homosexuals are thought to be incapable of any sort of restraint (hence the fear at having them in our schools or military units) but that known sexual predators of the heterosexual variety are accepted and vaunted as "playboys" or "womanizers" or "studs" or other similar euphemisms.

It was a fascinating discussion about some very controversial matters in this film (adolescent sexuality, pedophilia, etc.) and the main point that stayed with me is that in our society everyone seems to have the need to demonize some group above all others; but that interestingly enough, one's own personal beliefs and prejudices and fears affect WHICH group that is...whethwe it is women, blacks, jews, Asians, gays, pagans, Christians, Muslims, liberals or Republicans...

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 11:00 AM

Well, there ya go -- redefinition of terms by waves of political foofara.

As with all theories, communism the philosophy and Communism the revolutionary force-fed fascist implementation are two very different kettles of fish. It is of course popular to say and write that the failure of the USSR's economy proved the flaws in the theory, and not differentiate between the very weird brand of communism that arose from the turmoil of Stalin's era, and other kinds, such as the good sister's mentioned above. The one thing that the fall of the USSR does prove, it seems to me, is that individual excellence and personal gain is a powerful social ioncentive, and just eliminating it for the good of all is a really stupid idea. When strong people who operate freely are also socially compassionate, balanced solutions evolve. When those solutions are predictaed instead on draining the best of the able for the support of the less able, serious problems occur.

For example, the USSR was masterful at intimidating people and suppressing their communications. The practices are not part of any theoretical communism, but they sure were part of the Bear's version!

It will be intersting to compare the degrees of socialism and individual intiative in Russia and the United States in another 10 years as it seems to me they ar eboth muiigrating toward some fuzzy center that combines parts of both theories.

A

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 10:42 AM

Another memory was triggered by this thread. In Catholic Grade School, my teacher, a nun, started a discussion on Communism and drew the expected horror, fear,etc. from her class of third graders. She then asked "How many of you know any Communists?" Again - horror. She then quietly stated that she and all the other nuns living in the local convent were practicing pure Communism. No personal property, shared tasks, all working for the common good, all guaranteed to be cared for by the group, etc. She was thinkiing and wanted us to think. I wonder what Reverend Mother would have thought if she knew.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 09:28 AM

Amos,
The points you make above are what I started the other thread about (KimC's cold war question). We demonize everything to do with the McCarthy side of the era because we have canonized everybody on the American "socialist/communist" side in that era. Nothing added longevity to an OK musical career such as Seeger's as much as his martyrdom at the hands of political zealots. Without this martyrdom, we'd be having threads about his career like the one we had a few months ago about who could or couldn't tolerate the Kingston Trio.

"...Obviously these groupings intersect, and there were lots of shades of gray in between as well. But it was always clear to me that the philosophical liberals of the Thirties were a long, long way from Kruschev's shoe-pounding pronunciamento, "We will bury you!"." --Amos

That's not clear to me. I don't think they were, and when I read the POVs of most of the mudcat, I don't think they are. That's fine insofar as it's (still) a free country.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 07:37 AM

Deckman, Don`t stop now, this is rivetting, it has to be told., Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 12:36 AM

I was too much a child during the era of HUAC to understand what I was watching; but I understood the outrage and disdain my mother would throw at the little balck and white screen on which balding Joe McCarthy was prancing around. She called him six kinds of insufferable bastard.

I think the point about labels is an important one. For example there were at least two major meanings to the word Communist in the period between the 30's and the 50's -- actually there were a dozen. But one distinction that has to be made is the difference betweent he philosophical notion of communism (the philosophy of communal interst) and the political activities of the international communist party. there were an awful lot of intellectuals, liberals and artists drawn to the "subject" of communism philosophically, and some of them called themselves socialists and some of them called themselves anarchists, and some called themselves Bolshevik sympathizers, and it was a grand old bunch of malarkey about how societies should be organized for best benefit. The other side of the line was the effort to organize political action groups, labor strikes, and various other overt and covert actions. That gradually became "the enemy" of the American government as its dynamics gravitated to the support of Moscow and the USSR. Obviously these groupings intersect, and there were lots of shades of gray in between as well. But it was always clear to me that the philosophical liberals of the Thirties were a long, long way from Kruschev's shoe-pounding pronunciamento, "We will bury you!".

I guess all those witnesses should have asked for defintions of the word "communist". Maybe they did.

Regards,

A.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Sep 01 - 12:09 AM

Mary, I didn't intend to post again, but I have been talking off line with several of the more active participants to this thread. One asked me if I thought it was relevent to continue this thread. I said "yes," meaning that the lessons I learned in the 1950's have served me all my life. I do think there is a continum (sp?) from those early days of injustice, through the days of the civil rights struggles, through the Vietnam period, into today ... Friday, September 7th, 2001. I am a product of my times and my experiences ... we all are. If we don't learn from our past experiences, what are we ... STUPID! Thanks for your participation and interest.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Sep 01 - 11:39 PM

I naively thought that Watergate was the cause of the nation's distrust of government and politicians!
I was too young to remember the hearings but do remember vague negative references to McCarthy with a kind of whispered undercurrent of "You don't want to say that too loudly".

Many years later, my mother and I went to see "The Way We Were" - Streisand/ Redford. I was bored to tears. She, in a hushed voice after the movie, said "Don't you understand what the blacklist was?" She shocked me. Dad was from "The only good communist is a dead communist" school. Mom apparently hadn't agreed.

Sandy, Don, Deckman, et al: once again you have created a classic Mudcat thread. No post can be too long. No stray thoughts or remembrances will be too much. I have read every word and intend to read it all again.
Thanks,
Mary

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 11:44 PM

Bartholomew ... I couldn't agree more. I still remember clearly the division I saw in my own house and neighborhood as the hearings were broadcast. It hindsight, it's hard to believe that it all happened ... but it did. I think we are just as vulnerable today as then. And yes, Tricky Dick Nixon learned well. And today we have many others like his ilk just waiting for the chance to start it all over again. Maybe next it will be the religious right ... who knows. Bob Nelson

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 10:13 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed the McCarthy/HUAC era discussion. But I'd hate for anyone to think that this was nothing more than an enlightening bull session about "the bad old days". Although McCarthy was (in most minds) discredited, his tactics have become commonplace.

McCarthy really wasn't interested in stopping communism; as I believe Kendall pointed out, his real interest was in getting re-elected. He found that flinging the label "communist" at people gave him stature that he didn't have to earn. He never had to prove anything - all he had to do was accuse and insinuate and public fear (and the press' need for a story) did the rest.

In the end his ego pushed him to go too far, but the lesson of his brief celebrity was well-noted (young Dick Nixon, for one was paying close attention). Now we don't have an election without a Willie Horton, or a nomination without some special interest litmus test. Any label(s) that can be attached to an individual to distract public attention from the merits of his/her arguments are put to use - and the more the merrier. Anything to avoid a real discussion of the issues. We even see it here at the Mudcat, on a certain level, when someone chooses to focus on the "Guest" monicker, rather than to address the argument presented. Anywhere that you see someone name calling and labeling an opponent you see part of the legacy of "Tail Gunner Joe".

I would like to think that McCarthy was bound to fail because he was a fraud; but the truth is that it took some pretty courageous individuals to stop him. That he succeeded for as long as he did, should continue to scare the hell out of all of us.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:35 PM

The Committee's argument ran: "This is an investigative hearing, not a court of law, therefore we do not have to allow such niceties as cross-examination or the introduction of defense character witnesses." The fact that people could, and many did, go to prison for "contempt of Congress (or the State Legislature, in the case of the Canwell Committee) because they refused to answer questions under these circumstances, made no difference to the inquisitors. For folks whose political beliefs or social attitudes differed from those in power, those were perilous times.

It is hardly surprising that some were unable to stand up against that sort of intimidation and knuckled under, naming names of those they thought had been Communists, or at least "fellow travelers" back in the 30s and 40s. They feared not only prison, but also the blacklist that could cost them their careers in the entertainment business. The blacklist was not an official government agency or activity. It was privately maintained by a group of fanatic right-wing "patriots" who would get in touch with advertisers and warn them of boycotts of their products if they sponsored shows that employed artists whom they suspected were communists or communist sympathizers. That cost a lot of people their jobs in radio and television. Producers and advertising agencies were totally intimidated.

But it was not only happening in the entertainment world. Professor Joe Butterworth, Chaucerian scholar fired by the University of Washington, wrote to 2000 members of the Modern Language Association, looking for a job. Qualified Middle English teachers were then in demand, but no one offered to hire him. He did odd jobs until his savings ran out, and finally went on public assistance, a broken man.

Sandy

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 03:32 PM

Yep, Mister be my husband. As in "she called her husband Mister." ;-)

Isn't it wrong to outlaw a political party in the United States?

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 02:57 PM

Living history, best thread I have seen on Mudcat. Sourdough, Paul Robeson was held in high esteem in the north of Ireland. We admired his courageous stand and also the others who stood against the scum, and deep shame on those who stood by and did nothing while good men were hounded out of their professions and also their country. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 01:17 PM

Kim, very good questions/comments. Of course it was just plain wrong and unfair to try to force folks to testify. But try they did and succeeded often. In addition, they skirted the law by outlawing the Communist party in America. Your questions were what drove me during the time: how can they do this? It isn't right? It isn't fair. It isn't legal. By the way, I like your husbands' (I assume) name. And his comments were right on!

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 01:04 PM

This all happened before I was born and I know very little about it. My question has always been, though: in America, a supposedly free society, doesn't an individual have a right to belong to whatever political party he/she chooses? And then, isn't it unConstitutional (or just plain wrong) to make someone testify under duress?

With what little I know, I have always been of the opinion that the UnAmerican Activities Committee was itself UnAmerican.

On another note, I heard a little blurb on NPR last week (on one of the game shows) about J. Edgar Hoover getting all cheesed off at MAD Magazine, and sending the FBI after them, because they were poking fun at him. I said to Mister, isn't that against the First Amendment? Doesn't MAD Magazine have a constitutional right to poke fun at J. Edgar Hoover withou reproach? Isn't that what freedom of the press is?

Mister said to me, well, that's the difference between a patriot and a zealot.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: GUEST,ellenpoly
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 06:23 AM

Wow!!! Hey Deckman,ya should have warned me! Amazing stuff here,people.I would wish for you a larger readership.This is important stuff.

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 02:47 AM

This is fantastic and I haven't even begun to absorb it all. Thank you all so very much for sharing and to you, Deckman (Roope) for staring this thread. This should be a Mudcat Classic designated thread!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: McCarthyism ... were you there?
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Sep 01 - 12:19 AM

I don't know about you folks ... but I'm JUST gettin' warmed up! CHEERS, Bob