BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 01:05 AM

Yes, they were and Murray MacLeod has now found a mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Jan 02 - 12:37 PM

Murray has a point, in that the Spartans, for instance, fought in pairs of lovers, and when their opponents spied on them and saw them braiding each other's hair, putting on their nicest bracelets and necklaces and oiling each other's bodies and making love, the spies knew that the Spartans were preparing to fight to the death.

On the other hand, it is not necessary to be homosexual - or even to be unmarried or childless - to be prepared for blood sacrifice, and I'm not only talking about the maybe-I'll-survive soldiers of the World Wars. Look at the leaders of the 1916 Rising in Ireland, who knew that in signing the Proclamation of the Republic they were signing their death warrants - all but one married men with children, I think.

No, to die for your country, or your religion, or your ideals, what you need is a strong and perfect faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 11:01 PM

Glad you like it, GUEST...I've gotta say I can't help but chuckle, myself, every time it appears. It may just be the silliest thread title ever to appear on Mudcat. By the way, you put that apostrophe in the wrong place...there have been a whole bunch of participants on this thread. Can I offer you a refresher course at the WSSBA? Only available in Canada, eh?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 02 - 07:47 PM

Best MudCat thread of 2001...... and most typical of the posting participant's..... thought processes.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 01:38 PM

Like athlete's foot, it has returned when least expected...

Keep an eye out for those Osama Bin Lookalikes!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 01 - 10:46 AM

if they were gay, did they get 70 virgin boys as their reward in heaven?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:07 PM

I doubt it WW, too many people with that kind of bright want to see this thread fade away into the sunset as Gene, Roy, Rex, Jimmy, Tex, Hoppy, Buck, and Hoot did in all of their movies. "Ridin' down the canyon just to watch the sun go down, a picture that no artist 'ere could paint."

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 10:08 PM

Thanks Doug. The beginning of wisdom ...

Welp, LH, I'd jump us to another thread if I knew how. Surely an elf will bounce through here soon and do the deed ...

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 09:27 PM

Too true, Doug! When is this flippin' thread going to die...or at least have the decency to mutate into chapter 2?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 04:04 PM

Funny, Steve, I read Mary Bee's post just as you did. I'd never spar with WW and Hespris though. My arms are too short to box with God, and I know they ain't long enough to take on those two, too!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 03:12 PM

If anyone is under the impression that suicide bonbers are always men, just read up on the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 01:35 PM

sure, harpy..I'm willing...it you got a list of competent women, put 'em up...I'll vote for 'em!(I PRAYED (as much as I pray for anything) for Barbara Jordan to get well and run for president!)

the problem is, there are women out there with bad attitudes and worse ideas, just like men....I ain't gonna let them take over JUST because they are female. The one thing I would hope is that a group of GOOD women might settle some things with less posturing and violence....but remember, they would still have men to deal with....(you SURE you want this job?)

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:38 AM

ah gee, Billy...you must know this is only a HYPOTHESIS!!! We could test it by having men all over the world STOP RUNNING THINGS for about a year and let us take over and see how we do....Whatta ya say????

harpoontang

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:32 AM

Do you think that they have 70 male virgins in Paradise? Did the good Allah provide for this?

Interesting that Al Quaida, Taliban (btw many of the members use eye makeup) and other extremist Islamists have an asexual attitude toward women. It's a man's world.

Wonder about bin Laden? He might be gay.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:32 AM

You're probably right at that, harpgirl. At least in the case of Moslem fundamentalist subcultures. I'm not as sure about cannibal groups, though....ain't done the research to say!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:31 AM

I got news for ya', harp....EVERYTHING that's bad in this world ain't a matter of flawed male attitudes and raging testosterone...*grin*...and if it were, what would you propose we do about it? Mass creation of counter-tenors? (Seems as though they ain't gonna allow cloning anytime soon, so you can't create a totally female society)....

signed...'ol Bill, a 'reasonable' male, who actually knows a few more

(thread creep?...who?, us?)

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:05 AM

ah heck Steve, I'd venture to say that only the MALES were insane. The females want to be liberated from all that male insanity!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:45 AM

Yeah....We often do it by checking on the progress of the war at Killfrog News........if you ain't got a cable modem or DSL Guest, give it time to load........It's barely worth it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:12 AM

You people here REALLY know how to embarrass yourselves don't you!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 05:48 AM

Sure, hijacking a plane full of people and using them as a guided missile to kill more people is insane. But so is dropping bopmbs on other people. Crazy stuff.

But that doesn't mean you have to be crazy to do it. You just have to live in a world which is pretty crazy sometimes, and act according to the way that's seen as right and proper.

(And I'm not putting an = mark between the two actions. Or an "equivalent" sign, which I don't know how to do on a typewriter. I'm saying that close up actions that from a distance seem inexplicable can be recognised as only too normal. Sadly so.)

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 12:51 AM

Mary Bee, forgive me! I thought you were saying, "yeah thanks a lot. Now get the hell out of here." But if WyoWoman and Hesperis are right, I've been unjust. Please accept my apology!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: hesperis
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 12:12 AM

Exactly, WW.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 10:53 PM

Oh ... I thought Mary Bee was acknowledging that you came up with sump'n' smart and worth paying attention to during your sojourn offline...

interpretation is so dicey ...

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 10:44 PM

Everybody is insane by somebody else's definition.

Harkening back to the question that started off this thread, however, I have what I think is a better one:

Are pigs offended by English-language editions of "War and Peace"?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 10:28 PM

Oof! Looks like I was misunderstood. I was not saying the events of Sept 11 were not insane in a philosophical sense. I was merely stating that the people who committed those acts were probably not clinically insane, and that whether we consider them "insane" in a non-clinical sense is a purely cultural decision. Remember that among various groups, it is acceptable to kill a village full of men and then eat their flesh. To claim that all people in those cultures are insane is a cultural judgment, not a diagnosis.

I was arguing against the proposition that allowing yourself to die for your beliefs is necessarily insane. But it is also true that killing for your beliefs is not insane either. People who claim this is insanity are unwilling to face the fact that sane humans do things like this. We have a very clean and pretty view of the world, but the world is not all clean and pretty.

If we accept that, we see that it is not necessary to postualte that these men were both gay and insane, and offered an "out" of this suicide mission to avoid Hellfire. We can accept instead that they belong to a culture (in this case a subculture) where this behavior is culturally sanctioned and acceptable. Under those conditions, sane (and, of course, straight) people will do things like this.

And, mary bee, there's no call to be rude! Your own contributions to this thread haven't exactly been pearls of wisdom...in fact, they haven't been anything at all!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 10:02 PM

Lord knows where we'd all be if someone -- several someones -- way back when hadn't decided to take risks for their faith, or their personal belief systems, that might result in their deaths. Pledging one's life, fortune and sacred honor for some piece of paper called the Declaration of Independence was pretty wacky ...

BUT ... I still don't much think the Almighty is going to be smiling when them guys paddle they way across the River Styx.

Even though I 'm a way-liberal protestant, I'd love to believe that there's 1.) a hell and 2.) a special corner of it reserved for people who mislead the lonely, the gullible,the misguided and the compulsive conformists into grievous error for the sake of the leader's personal agenda.

And this isn't to say that we (the U.S.A.) are blameless in all our dealings with the rest of the world. Just that history is full of those who create, then manipulate True Believers into devastating wrong.

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 09:48 PM

...your Gertrude Stein quote would only impress me, Murray if you knew the rest of the great poem "Sacred Emily,"...or what "having a cow" really meant!!!

By the way, how can you live thirty years in Edinburgh and one in Homestead ,Florida and call yourself a "cracker?"

Who else is in Rivergrass? If you come north, let me know. I don't venture into Dade County without a hummvee, and never during hurricane season!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 04:43 PM

Kidnapping 60 innocent people and flying them into a building occupied by still more innocent people is insane. If your spirtual advisor counsels you to do so, he is also insane and so on.

BTW. That blood thing is pretty whacky as well. Not neary as insane but certianly rather arbitrary and counter survival.

I'll grant you that a person can in the name of religion do rational things which do not appear to be rational. I just don't think that the events of Sept. 11, 2001 qualify.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Mary bee
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 03:03 PM

Folk music anyone???

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Mary bee
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 03:01 PM

yeah thanks Steve!! Stay off line for a few more days will you

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 02:23 PM

I've been offline for a few days, so didn't see where this thread was going. Murray suggests that you'd have to be insane to do something for your faith that you know for sure will lead to your death. We should remember that to a truly religious person in either Christianity or Islam, death is not the end of existence. The afterlife is not only there, but much more important than this life. People have already pointed out Christian martyrs, beginning with Jesus. There are sects of Christianity active today who, for example, will not accept blood transfusions because they believe it will pollute them with spirits--they will essentially become possessed.

If you accept the premises of this belief, namely that spirits or souls exist, that a portion or remnant of the soul can inhabit the blood, and that it is better to die and go to heaven than become possessed and ultimately go to hell, then the practice of not accepting transfusions--EVEN THOUGH YOU WILL DIE--is perfectly rational. Where is the insanity? In the beliefs themselves? Are you saying that Islamic or Christian beliefs are in themselves insane? If not, why is acting on those beliefs insane? Furthermore, for adherents of these sects, it would be insane to accept a transfusion, knowing that it will damn you to hell.

My point is that the claim of insanity is ethnocentric in this case, and can only be valid for someone who does not share the religious beliefs of the ones being labelled insane. Furthermore, "Insane" is not a diagnosis like "Liver Cancer." The concept of insanity itself is culturally conditioned, and one group's madman may be another group's shaman.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:03 PM

WyoWoman: I like your spunk! Yessiree, Babe, you got it!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST,a Sun Reader (NOT)
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 05:39 AM

John from Hull Can we dispell the myth you propagate about the Sun.
It is a COMIC

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 06:45 PM

Unh ... they could be sent back as women under the Taliban?

Yes, Cookieless, the Onion is one of my regular bookmarks. I have to say their logo for the attack was the most emotionally honest of all the media logos. And the "God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule" was absolutely brilliant. Probably because I absolutely agree ...

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: gnu
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 05:13 PM

WW... I said, "Go girl !!!", and you did ! Excellent. Another good laugh.

Excuse my ignorance, but, if Allah was in a huff, what punishment could they receive in the afterlife ?

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: heric
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:53 PM

Well, since the thread won't die, I've got a bit of trivia: Short version: You can throw "SITE:.edu" in and get ONLY .edu sites.

Of course you should all know that already, anyway. This restricter could be useful: e.g. .gov, or .au or .uk, etc.

Long version: If you throw "kamikaze methamphetamine" into google, you gets lots of references to the assertion, and no legitimate citations. (A kind of urban legend phenomenon.) So I was wondering if there was a way to skew the search towards more "reputable" sites, and tried starting the query with ".edu" But that doesn't help: google ignores it because it is too common. (Still no legitimate citations on the drug thing, though.)

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:48 PM

Re: your posting before last Mi'Lady Wyo, I offer THIS:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/hijackers_surprised.html

(though it has been posted here before, & sorry, I havent got the knack of clickies yet.....)

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:23 PM

Why, thankee kindly, sir. I tend to be of the "cut to the chase" school ... which sometimes makes me dubious company, I suppose, although I do try to watch myself in polite society.

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:29 AM

The thread seemeth to liveth another dayeth -

WW - I have much more enjoyed the OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH BABYYYYYYYYYYYYY - than the "Adjust fire to . ....."

You made more sense than the rest of us put together -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 07:44 PM

Thenkyew, thenkyew very much...

McGrath, I've wondered myself what must have been going on in their minds as they looked around the plane at all the people they were getting ready to snuff out. Did they have a moment's hesitation? Did they feel any sympathy at all, or were they so completely convinced that everyone on that plane was infidel that they were just ready to get the deed done and explode right through the pearly gates to be among the Chosen?

Interesting, one of the things they apparently were looking forward to was being served and attended to by celestial virgins. Too bad they couldn't just have allowed themselves to be cared for by a couple of cocktail waitresses in the actual, physical realm ... what a big, fat, hairy bummer if you go to all that trouble and then find yourself on the Other Side with Allah all in a lather because you completely ignored His "Don't Kill" rule ...

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: gnu
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 05:07 PM

WyoooooooooooWoman !!! Go girl !!! Thanks for the belly laugh. Excellent !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Gareth
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 03:39 PM

Thank you Kevin, it's note a bad quote from memopry tho'

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:14 PM

Then out spake brave Horatius,
The Captain of the Gate:
``To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his gods,
"(Lays of Ancient Rome - stanza XXVII)

By that Victorian Klingon poet Macaulay. Those aren't the things I'd die for, but I hope there are some things. And I hope it'll never come to that.

But what I can't imagine is looking a bunch of harmless strangers in the eye, and wiping them out along with me. In principle it's no different from dropping a bomb on them from a great height, and any all kinds of people seem to manage to get their heads round that. "Collateral danage" has been the preferred term, though I get the impression it's fallen out of favour since Timothy McVeigh adopted it - but I think most peiple would find the human reality of it somehow feels different.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Gareth
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:54 PM

At the risk of turning this thread serious again :-

"Dulce et dulchoram est, pro patria morie" ???

or

"what better way to die, than facing fearfull odds,
for the ashes or our fathers, and the temples of our Gods"

Please excuse my bad latin and quotes.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:06 PM

Homo or hetero, I think they were all terribly sexually repressed and that this should be a lesson to all of us not to bottle up those essential energies. The more we make people feel guilty and dirty about sex, and the more we remove normal channels for sensual sexual expression (not just furtive episodes of getting off), the weirder human beings, especially male human beings, get.

Think how much more fun we'd all be having these days if those boys had been able to spend some quality time saying that special prayer we all love so much, "Oh God, Oh God, ohgodohgodohgod, ooooooohhhhhhh...."

--Dr. Roof

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: heric
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 10:13 AM

Close, Mr. Gnu. I'm in San Diego. I just got the impression you were from Newfoundland in that "hugs" thread yesterday.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: gnu
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 07:23 AM

Dan Kelly... By any chance, are you an Industrial Engineer with the provincial government of Nova Scotia ?

VERYcuriousgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:35 AM

were the hijackers GAY?

well, no, I'd say they were very GRIM!

sometimes I wonder what some of the threads here have to do with music folk or blues but if there is a need to examine this subject...??? sign me:

Muddled in Missouri

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:26 PM

I saw reference to that, too, McGrath. I also saw references, at other sites, that it has originally been invented by the Koreans and one other site said the Japanese, in 1912, but there was nothing to substantiate the claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Were the 9/11 Hijackers Gay?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:11 PM

Methamphetamine, more commonly referred to at the time by the trade name Benzedrine, was officially issued to troops on both sides in World War II, with, as I understand it, the most extensive use being in American units. The main object being to keep people awake and alert and so forth, for a crucial limited period.

I've never heard that it's any use for stopping people being scared. Might help you keep going even if you were scared, but that's a different thing.