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Oxymorons
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Amos Date: 19 Apr 02 - 10:51 AM Friendly fire is only apparently oxymoronic, when mis-parsed; the adjective "friendly" has a different meaning (side of origin) than the common one (show of affection or alliance). Obviously in the second sense NO fire is friendly. A |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: SharonA Date: 19 Apr 02 - 10:11 AM Wise ass 'NSYNC concert Voice mail |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Apr 02 - 08:02 AM I wonder if "friendly fire" might owe anything to John Betjeman:
"Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough! It isn't fit for humans now..."
And he wasn't exactly being ironic, possibly a bit tongue in cheek, since he didn't actually want the bombs dropped on the place, just wished people would wake up to what they had created, and pull it down and make it better.
Nobody has mentioned "British Justice" which has very often been classed as an oxymoron.
And I think alongside Sorchas's "Non Working Mom" I might put "Women's Liberation."
Or there's Morris Dancing...
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Banjer Date: 19 Apr 02 - 05:52 AM Having read through this thread I am dismayed and saddened that NO ONE has yet listed one of the most obvious music related oxymnorons: Banjo Tuning |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 19 Apr 02 - 05:36 AM Definite probability Full vacuum cleaner Opaque window (of Australia) Island Continent Open secret |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Joe in the'pool Date: 19 Apr 02 - 05:02 AM 'Don't Fire' could this now be interpreted as an oxymoron when heard by American Airforce pilots, when sighting 'Friendly' Canadians (is this another one!) No offence meant to Canadians a very friendly bunch of people.. Joe |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Trevor Date: 19 Apr 02 - 04:32 AM How about 'going round the square'? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,DrWord Date: 19 Apr 02 - 01:35 AM First Annual This one is good ... DrWord@public terminal |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:58 PM I've heard the "divided by a common language" line attributed to George Bernard Shaw and Oscar Wilde. Take your pick. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: DonD Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:18 PM Asm an elderly gebtleman with an enlarged prostate, may I ask -- isn't the expression, "taking the piss"? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: kendall Date: 18 Apr 02 - 08:20 PM Some of those sailboats, especially the catamarans will really haul ass. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: michaelr Date: 18 Apr 02 - 08:15 PM Industrial park! In order to determine whetherv a statement is meant ironically or seriously (if it's not OBVIOUSLY one or the other), one must have at least some knowledge of the speaker. That can be difficult when chatting on the web with people in other hemispheres. (Sweeping Generalization Alert:) I think that Americans tend to assume that people mean what they say, unless clued otherwise, while British folks (more skeptical, I guess) assume everyone is "taking a piss". Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST Date: 18 Apr 02 - 01:06 PM Sailboat racing Behavioral science Business ethics |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wolfgang Date: 18 Apr 02 - 12:36 PM the 'only choice' found missing idiot savant dicorce court (ouch) science fiction and to end on a musical note: soft rock Young Tradition Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Dave Bryant Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:58 AM Bodhran Music |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,Pete Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:54 AM Guesstimate? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Bill D Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:44 AM Athletic scholarship freezer burn briefing holy war |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 11:41 AM Hi Guessed, Project Gutenberg is written with only one "t". The German home page was transferred some days ago, URL is now http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/ No Ambrose Bierce here. But he can be found on the English URL http://promo.net/pg/ Hi Uncle DaveO I may assure you that Sappho when she wrote her poem did not know the Chinese sweet-sour sauces, and bitter and sweet for one and the same thing were supposed contraries, not parts of a range. Otherwise the word oxymoron = sharp witted-dull would be no oxymoron itself, only a part of the wide range of human intellect. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Hamish Date: 18 Apr 02 - 10:12 AM Detailed summary and/or in-depth overview |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,greg stephens Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:56 AM yes, i did raise the irony point in all seriousness, it is one of the main souces of incomprehension(and possible anger) in the trans-atlantic conversations we have here. Other examples of incomprehension occur on this thread: I'm sure any british or irish reader reading my posting of "friendly fire" would understand that I knew what friendly fire is, and was discussing the oddness of the juxtaposition of the two words. But two or three posters, who i would guess were american, assumed that I was trying to find out what the words meant and explained them (very slowly and carefully)."Two countries separated by a common language"..who said that? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: JedMarum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:48 AM celibate priest |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: JedMarum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:44 AM I like wolfgang's: folksong writer |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: JedMarum Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:43 AM christian right |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Snuffy Date: 18 Apr 02 - 09:24 AM You're right, Jane. Over here "absolutely marvellous" would be a highly damning verdict, whereas "not totally unpleasant" could be high praise indeed. WassaiL! V |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Jane 2001 Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:30 PM Re Americans and irony. I have occasionally noticed that on mudcat where someone has expressed an opinion which is so extreme it must be the opposite of what they actually think and our cousins get terribly upset about it. I think we Brits use irony rather a lot, making a point by taking things to their ultimate ridiculous extreme. I think it is a peculiarly British (English?) form of rhetoric. The continentals don't seem to understand it either and dispise the speaker accordingly. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: kendall Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:11 PM Government assistance |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:45 PM I have to disagree that bitter-sweet is an oxymoron. "Bitter" and "Sweet" are NOT opposites, but the names of a couple of the battery of taste sensations that make up flavor. Something CAN be both bitter and sweet, and maybe sour or salty, etc., at the same time. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: 8_Pints Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:16 PM How about: "Industrial action" "Pretty awful" "Management perspective" Bob vG |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,Dagenham Doc Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:18 PM I love rush hour!! How about stiff upper lip Doc. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Apr 02 - 12:19 PM Agitating for peace. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: kendall Date: 17 Apr 02 - 12:15 PM A good Rose' attractive linoleum Legally drunk Reagan's memoirs Compassionate conservative Cherry Tart. Rush hour |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: GUEST,Greg F. (remote computer) Date: 17 Apr 02 - 11:31 AM Creation science. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: artbrooks Date: 17 Apr 02 - 11:01 AM As a former field artilleryman, I can comment on "friendly fire" from a different perspective. It wasn't invented by a PR flac, rather its a technical (well, not very) term that's been around at least since WWII. It refers to artillery rounds (shells, if you prefer) fired ("fire") by our side ("friendly")that hit something other than the intended target. This can be because of mislocation of the target or of the guns, changing weather conditions, mathmatical error, or because either the good guys weren't where they were supposed to be or the artillery didn't know where they were. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Guessed Date: 17 Apr 02 - 10:04 AM American Irony? never the Twain? AND what about Ambrose Bierce? What was his take on irony? I have the whole text from the Guttenberg Project - I will go see. I wish I could remember their URL but it won't be hard to find. methinks a can of worms is wriggling free here. "Ire ON" - folks. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: John MacKenzie Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:57 AM While we're on books "The quiet American"? DARFC |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:35 AM Oldest oxymoron I know is glykypikron = "bitter-sweet", as said of love by the poetress Sappho about the beginning of the 6th century B.C.
A fine translation by J. Addington Symonds, 1883: In friendly fire I can see no oxymoron; friendly here only designates an origin and no intention. In the tis man's Army it is well known that artillerists don't distinguish between friend or foe; the bloody bangheads only know interesting targets. A long range hit at a friendly officers latrine they consider as a ballistic masterpiece, too. Not so funny is the intelligent drummer. I only agree if you except me personally.
And now to Greg: There are certain hints at the use of ironic humour in the U.S. of A. Even the British Library shows six entries of this excellent and entertaining work: Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Pseudolus Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:34 AM I thought an oxymoron was someone who didn't know how to use those acne pads (oxy pads).... And to appease the folks who think all conversations here should be about music, my oxymoron contribution is.....MUSIC THREAD!
Frank |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Rich_and_Dee Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:18 AM Oxymoron: Gourmet buffet
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Guessed Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:12 AM MudGuard isn't liquid gas sublime (***B tech G ****) greg stevens - are you ernest or ironest? can I offer Manage Meant? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 09:05 AM I disagree amos.it is contradictory, because "friendly" has connotations quite the reverse ofthe feelings you get from a bullet up your jacksie. And it is a euphemism I think, because it was a circumlocution by PR people who didnt like saying "we've bombed our boys by mistake". And is certainly ironic, if the phrase is used byits recipients. So all in all i think it qualifies as all three figures of speech and gets some sort of prize. |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Amos Date: 17 Apr 02 - 08:56 AM Friendly fire means rounds of ammo INADVERTENTLY being directed at you by those on your side or an allied side. It is not a euphemism, and it is not contradictory, but it does sound like a combination of incongruous words, which therefore qualifies it as an oxymorin anyway. A |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:28 AM This might be a thread where i could find the answer to a question that has often come up: is it true that Americans don't use, and therefore don't understand, ironic humour? It is popularly supposed that if you say to an American "Brutus is an honourable man" or "Streets of London is a wonderful and very moving song" they will take the comment to be a statement of your opinion. Can anyone help? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 17 Apr 02 - 07:13 AM Amos -- I agree Wincing Devil -- applause for "Tame Cat" Nigel Parsons -- plural noted. I'll know next time. GUEST,jonm -- YES!!!!! Greg Stephens -- I suspect that "friendly fire" probably started its life as a eupemism created by those in command and, as frequently happens when leaders are being espcially silly, was turned into ironic humor by those being commanded. Stephen |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:51 AM Greg: I think for once (maybe I should rephrase that clause!). On this occasion I believe (that's better) the British Politicians have exactly the apposite phrase! "Friendly Fire" comes under the heading of "Weasel Words" (a form of euphamism used by politicians deliberately to mislead, or to evade the point) |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: bill\sables Date: 17 Apr 02 - 06:11 AM McDonalds Restaurant |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:25 AM Thanks for clarification Nigel. My point is: what is "friendly fire"? Is it oxymoron (combination of contradictory or incongruous words); irony (intended meaning is the opposite of that of the words used); or euphemism (substitution of mild or innocuous wordfor more harsh or offensive term)? Or some combination of all three? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: MudGuard Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:20 AM got another one: tasty haggis (is that Scottish stuff spelled this way?) |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:11 AM From the dictionary definition I posted above, should the thread title be "Oxymora" ? |
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Apr 02 - 05:10 AM Main Entry: ox.y.mo.ron Pronunciation: "äk-si-'mOr-"än, -'mor- Function: noun Etymology: Late Greek oxymOron, from neuter of oxymOros pointedly foolish, from Greek oxys sharp, keen + mOros foolish Date: 1657 Inflected Form(s): plural ox.y.mo.ra /-'mOr-&, -'mor-/ : a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness) - ox.y.mo.ron.ic /-m&-'r@-nik, -mo-/ adjective - ox.y.mo.ron.i.cal.ly /-ni-k(&-)lE/ adverb
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Subject: RE: Oxymorons From: greg stephens Date: 17 Apr 02 - 04:53 AM Friendly fire. (though that may be unfair, it might be military black humour, irony or euphemism rather than oxymoron. It could be we need a "what do we mean by oxymoron" thread) |
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