Playing by ear vs. sight-reading

Subject: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Socorro
Date: 25 May 02 - 11:45 AM

[quote]There is a big difference between "being classically trained" and knowing music theory. There are hoards of people out there who have taken years of piano lessons, violin lessons, clarinet lessons, or what have you, who can read music as easily as most people can read a newspaper, and who can play some very difficult music. Some of them even play in symphony orchestras and appear on concert stages. Assuming that they haven't memorized the piece, if you were to take the sheet music away from them, they'd be lost. They can't improvise because they don't know what to do. Because they don't know music theory from Shinola. And why not? Because many people have taken private lessons all their lives from teachers who didn't know music theory either. And believe me, teachers like that are in the majority. They've always played by rote from the written music without really knowing what it's all about. Or that there is a better—and easier—way to learn that will really put them in command of what they're doing.[/quote]

I brightened up when i saw this, as it confirms my own experience. The problem is, I don't have enough musical background to trust my own evaluation much, so I'm hoping for some more discussion. I started playing piano as a mature adult, to accompany my friends singing. In the tradition of what we sing, improvisation is at its heart, & I was advised to learn to play by ear. Of course, I do try to learn to sight-read (I think it can only help), but it's a very low priority in my practice regimen. Any thoughts???

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Terry K
Date: 25 May 02 - 12:08 PM

What I've noticed is that "ear" pianists usually have a very simple left hand, probably just vamping two block chords, which is perfectly adequate for accompanying your friends singing. Whereas most written piano music has bass patterns usually consisting of single notes, and is to me the most difficult part of playing piano.

So my question would be, OK, I can understand you playing the treble clef melody by ear, but how do you go about putting a suitable left hand to it?

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 May 02 - 12:11 PM

I am a keyboard player.

Classically trained with theory included.

It took me close to five years to develop the ability to play by ear. It began with a few nights of adult education classes to "un-lock the mystery" and then the rest was pracice and history.

The most important thing with any instrument is that we continue to grow.... we NEVER arrive but the journey is pleasant... even the youngest beginner should recieve fulfilment and satisfaction.

You and your friends are there - continue on.

Have Fun! Work Hard! Make Music!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 25 May 02 - 12:38 PM

I'm paper trained as well as ear trained. I got my ear training form just plain watching and listening. I'd say, take lessons and listen. Written compositions can offer a new way of playing an old tune. Listening can can offer a few new bends, pull offs and hammer ons etc. that can add color to your playing. Just remember to HAVE FUN with what ever method you choose!

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 May 02 - 03:58 PM

Glad to see I'm quotable (from the WHAT KEY AM I IN? thread), Socorro, thank you.

Pete Seeger used to say "Don't bother with lessons. Don't practice. Just goof off!!" I disagree somewhat. Do take lessons. Do practice. And goof off!! Goof off a lot.

The more you experiment, try different things, and generally mess around with your instrument, the more you'll learn. One of the reasons so many people who have taken lessons and who can read well, but can't improvise and are helpless without written music is that they are either never mess around because they're afraid they'll make a "mistake," or some tight-ass teacher who doesn't know and teach music theory and has forbidden them to play anything but the written notes.

Lessons are a quick way to learn to play with good technique and music theory, one hopes (depending on the teacher, of course). Practicing is about the only way to pin down your technique and improve it (or playing a lot while paying attention to what you're doing, which is called [shh, don't tell anyone] "practicing"). Goofing off and trying different things is how you learn what both you and your instrument can do. Go for it!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Justa Picker
Date: 25 May 02 - 04:13 PM

I too was a classically trained pianist with theory included. After going as far as I could go with classical, I then through great fortune hooked up with another teacher who not only classically trained originally as well, but who had spent the better part of 40 years as a big band leader.

He was extremely well versed in ragtime, blues and jazz and he was my epiphony. Through my studies with him throughout my teen years he opened me right up to improvisation and exploration, and I never ever looked back since. (Ironically he was also the same person that schooled me in being able to play Rach's "Prelude In C# Minor!)
The best of all worlds is to be schooled in every style and have theory. The possibilities across the board, are endless for your entire life! Whatever training you have in these areas on one instrument you can then apply to any other instrument as well, especially polyphonic ones.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 06:09 PM

I think this question is on topic. At least I hope it is. I would like to know if there is anyone who can improvise who can't hear music (or anything else) in their head.

I can play simple melodies by ear because I can feel where the next note should be (I can't explain what that means), but I can't hear anything at all in my head, and consequently, I can't play anything complicated by ear, and I can't improvise.

I can't see much of anything in my head either, so to the extent that I can read music, I can't use memory of the written music to help me remember more complicated pieces.

Am I a freak or are there other people out there like me? And can any of them improvise or play complicated pieces by ear?

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Crane Driver
Date: 25 May 02 - 06:12 PM

Some folks find it easier to play by ear, some find it easier to read. It's best to be able to do both, which is a matter of doing both badly often enough, until you can do them well.

If you can only learn by ear, you can only learn the tunes that others around you play. I've got four published selections of traditional dance tunes at home, each with over a thousand tunes, and very little overlap between them. Local sessions use maybe a couple of dozen tunes.

Now, I play a duet concertina, which works a bit like a piano, but is easier to get into a taxi. I learn the tune (right hand) off music mostly, but I fit in the bass (left hand) instinctively. Sometimes I am astonished at what my left hand has just played, and have to go through it slowly to work out what I did. This began to happen after I'd played enough. (BTW, I never had lessons, cause I never found anyone else who could play a box like mine - it's as rare as rocking-horse shit, apparently. I just made the whole thing up.) I guess this isn't much help to Terry K above, but I guess its how piano players do it. Just keep playing around with the instrument, and remember that "play" suggests fun.

It still takes me a lot of time and effort to work a tune out by ear, unlike a friend of mine who can play anything he hears but can't read music. Between us, we make one decent musician. It's important to know your limits, and do what you can within them. Oh yes, and from time to time, bump up against them in case they move. They do move, believe me.

Andrew

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:41 PM

You are a freak. Perhaps you should go back to the kitchen and bake up a nice batch of cookies.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:48 PM

Ok.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: paddymac
Date: 25 May 02 - 08:58 PM

CarolC - ignore the guest; it's just another one of Creator's mistakes. I'm not clear on what you mean when you say you can't "hear" or "see" in your head. If you play music, I presume that you are not deaf and blind. There are many blind musicians, both contemporary and historical, but I don't know if there are any or many deaf musicians. I have heard of deaf persons who "play" by feeling vibrations. Makes sense to me.

I suspect what you mean is that you don't sense the ability to "visualize" music in your head (both "seeing" the dots in some form and "hearing" the melody or harmonies). Have you never heard a song or tune that you just couldn't get out of your head? I don't know what to say. Maybe it's a subconsciously learned skill and you just need to to practice trying to do it. Good luck, and keep playing anyway.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 09:23 PM

Hi paddymac. I can hear sounds that are produced outside of my head, but I can't generate any awareness of sounds within my head. This is something that I know some people can do. Some people can even manipulate the sounds they perceive in their heads.

But for me, if there isn't anything visual or auditory coming from outside of my head, it's pretty dark and silent in here.

I do get songs stuck in my head, but it's not an inner hearing thing. It's more of an inner feeling sort of thing. I know there's a difference, because on a very few occasions (maybe ten or twenty times in my life) I have heard or seen something in my head, and the difference is like night and day.

But the ability to make these things happen appears to be beyond my contol. Although I seem to be able to do them in my sleep. Go figure.

At any rate, I like your advice to keep playing. I believe I will do that.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Jeri
Date: 25 May 02 - 10:17 PM

Carol, if you can feel where the next note should be, does it mean you learn more by touch than sight or hearing? It's hard for me to imagine not being able to "hear" things in my head. It's more like imagining a tune, though. Of course, I hum or whistle all the time. The imagining is almost like humming without actually making a sound.

Can you close your eyes and imagine playing? Imagine when and where your fingers go? I'd think you could use touch the same way folk use sight and hearing. The easy way to improvise is to know where the notes to a chord are, and try different notes in that chord instead of the melody note you usually play.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 10:32 PM

Interesting. I think the way I feel it is that my thoat constricts to varying degrees depending on the note, as if I was singing, but I don't make any sound. Sounds strange doesn't it? But if I want to produce a sense of music in my head (and throat, I guess), that's the only way I seem to be able to do it when I'm awake.

So what I percieve is just a sense of higher than or lower than, based on how constricted my throat is. Although I do seem to perceive what I could only describe as a shadowy sense of some sort of tonal quality, but it's extremely vague.

I can't imagine playing at all, whether my eyes are open or closed. Although I can position my fingers as if I was playing even if I don't have the instrument in my hands. I guess everything originates with some sort of kinesthetic sense with me.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Jeri
Date: 25 May 02 - 11:29 PM

Carol, how do you know how to position your fingers if you can't remember/imagine where they go? Is music then a sequence of motions to you, sort of like a dancing with your fingers?

I do the throat-constricting thing too, at least that's how it feels. I think I'm just tightening my vocal cords to varying degrees. I can usually think a note and sing it, but sometimes I get lost. I know the next note is up, but can't remember just how far up.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 02 - 11:55 PM

Yes. Very definitely. Quite often I find myself saying that playing an instrument is more like dancing than playing music to me. (The sound that comes out of the instrument is the reward I get for making the instrument do interesting things.) I guess it's a muscle memory thing. And the physicality of it does seem to be a big part of the enjoyment of it for me. But I do adapt what I make the instrument do in order to produce a sound that expresses what I find pleasing and satisfying to me, musically speaking.

Re: the troat constricting thing. I think you're right. I think it's more the vocal chords rather than the throat. If I'm singing to myself, which I've found myself doing a little bit lately, I use the sound that I hear coming from my voice to tell me if I have the right note, and then I guess I develop a muscle (or vocal chord) memory to tell me how to do it in the future. And I find that I hit right notes much more often if I'm singing along with a recording than if I try to sing on my own.

I have no idea how I know if a note is right or not. But for some reason, I do. So maybe it's not so much a storage of the musical information problem as perhaps a retrieval problem.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CapriUni
Date: 26 May 02 - 12:20 AM

But the ability to make these things happen appears to be beyond my contol. Although I seem to be able to do them in my sleep. Go figure.

Just out of curiousity, Carol, have you ever tried Lucid Dreaming (consciousness exercises that get you to be able to recognize a dream when you're in one, and "take it out for a spin", so to speak)? I've occasionally worked with lucid dreaming when I have a particularly tough writing problem to work on, and it's always been helpful.

If you know you can visualize in your dreams, if you learn to control your own dream state, then maybe you can take that ability back with you into the waking state...

Just a thought...

Meantime, it's time for my own REM

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 26 May 02 - 12:29 AM

Thanks for the tip, CapriUni. I might have to give that a try.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 May 02 - 05:48 AM

I have a strange ability to be able to cold pitch a note correctly (tried it last night) but couldn't tell you what it was if it was played at me straight. I can hear in my head what the next note should be, but I can't tell you what it's designation is. I can sight read a piece to learn after 2-3 goes, but not in harmony, BUT I can read a score like a book and hear all of it. I can't write the stuff down without an instrument. I also have a total inability to remember any tune I've ever written, except the one I wrote on my mobile phone!

Mozart said he had all his tunes in his head, and it's obvious that he could hear the whole orchestra and know which notes were supposed to be where. Rather than building up a piece gradually, he seemed to have heard it complete, and was just copying it down out of his head. That explains why he didn't have many corrections on his manuscripts (and there's a strong school of thought that the corrections were done later by Salieri, a pupil or the person whose name escapes me, that collected all his works and K rated them), and why he was so frustrated. If you can hear the piece in your head, but can't get it onto paper quickly enough because you are perpetually interrupted by pupils, parties, children and Emperors, then is it any wonder things don't get done?

Playing by ear is an acquired skill that some never get. It's usually more informal which is why a lot of classically trained musicians never get it, particularly the twiddles and grace notes that some musicians decorate with. The difficult part is to stop thinking 'the score says this note is next' when your ear is screaming 'put this note in as well!!!' and just do it. However, don't give up, keep 'goofing off' to sessions and one day it the penny will drop, the shackles of written scores will fall away and you'll be able to decorate so much no-one will recognise the original tune!! (which is basically what Mozart did to some very old Austrian folk tunes.....).

Remember the Nike logo? Just do it. And Nike was the Greek goddess who translates as Victory.

LTS

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CapriUni
Date: 26 May 02 - 09:32 AM

Over the last few years, I've been fascinated with the ideas around literate cultures (cultures based on writing) and oral cultures. It all started with a book called Spell of the Sensuous: Language and Percaption in the More-Than-Human World by David Abram, then came Wisdom of the Mythtellers by Sean Kane, and finally The Alphabet Versus the Goddess by Leonard Shlain (recommended in that order). All three come from three different perspectives, and take their source material from different sources, but all come to the same basic conclusion that the innovation of reading and writing spoken language fundamentally changes the brain, our perceptions, and cultural assumptions. (Well, in Mythtellers Kane makes the distinction between hunting-gathering and agriculture, but writing and agriculture evolved together)

But I haven't seen anything on the effects of written music, though I imagine it must be related somehow... I know there are whole cultures of musicians around the world that don't even have musical notation. Has anyone ever done a cultural study on whether this affects musical structure and perception?

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 May 02 - 03:20 PM

Interesting point. One communicates first with speech and body. But we would not consider someone that could not read or write, to be unable to communicate.

I suspect the same change is true for music. The ablility to use notation enabled aspects like harmony in european classcal music to be developed to a degree that would not have been possible without it.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CapriUni
Date: 26 May 02 - 07:24 PM

Yesterday, I listened to a Yo-Yo Ma Interview on Weekend Edition Saturday, talking about his latest project that brought together musicians from all sorts of cultures, (India, the West, the Middle East) and he talked a little about how an Indian musician who didn't read music learned/perceived music differently.

... He couldn't start playing the piece in the middle, but once he heard the whole thing once through, he knew it cold.

I wonder if there is a left-brained/right-brained thing going on, wih reading & decoding words and music are mainly activities of the left frontal lobe, and spatial (musical?) relationships are the domain of the right.

Musical notation may have given the Western cultures complex harmonies, but our rhythms are pretty simple compared to Arabian music, for example...

Just a thought...

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 May 02 - 07:51 PM

I was just trying to find an example of how reading and writing music may have had the effect you describe for the written word.

In a purely musical sense I think generally the results of notation not to be such a wonderful thing at all. But it is swings and roundabouts as you say - syncopation has saved us.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 02 - 08:28 PM

I'm not sure what Carol C means by this hearing the music in the head which she can't do. Do most people actually hear music in their head ?

Whistling or singing is the type of music making that seems most relevant here, because when we are doing that there are no clues from fingers and frets and so forth - and yet most of us seem able to whistle or sing a tune. Regardless of whether we can read music or not. (And I can't.)

When I whistle I know when the note I make is the note I want, and I can normally move up or down to the next note I want (though I've no idea how I do that)- but hearing the note in the head? No way. Sensing the interval between the notes, maybe that's a better way of describing what happens.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: pict
Date: 26 May 02 - 08:59 PM

Sight reading is useful but a good knowledge of theory is far more useful I learnt by ear then gradually learnt theory if I had to do it again I would do it in exactly the same order.I think being able to play what you hear in your head from solos to large structures is the best point to get to musically and in music the ear rules supreme.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: 53
Date: 26 May 02 - 09:33 PM

I've always played by ear, even though sight reading would be nice to know.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 26 May 02 - 09:54 PM

From what I understand, there are a lot of people who can hear music in their heads. My son can. And he can compose complicated pieces of music in his head from what he hears in there. He can visualise in his head too. Lucky bugger.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Banjer
Date: 26 May 02 - 11:18 PM

If I like a piece I can play it by ear fro the most part. I know enough about reading music to get me into trouble! I still try to read music, but get frustrated with it real easy because I know what I think the tune should sound like and try to play it without actually looking at the printed sheet. Like everyone that knows music has said so far, the important thing is to have fun with it, like Ricky Nelson said in Garden Party, ....You can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself.....!

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: MMario
Date: 26 May 02 - 11:32 PM

Yes - I can "hear" music in my head - almost like playing back a tape; sort of an "aural memory", I guess.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 27 May 02 - 01:50 AM

I hear music in my head all the time. I walk around all day hearing tunes. I also see in my mind's eye where my fingers will go on the fiddle fingerboard to play the tune. But I generally don't know or think about what actual notes I am playing. I can't hear harmonies in my head, nor sing them. I definitely think playing by written notes (which I used to do with woodwinds) and playing by ear involve opposite sides of the brain. In my case, the cross-communication between sides is kind of slow sometimes.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 May 02 - 02:15 AM

Does any one see music in the form of notation in their head?

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: GUEST,sophocleese
Date: 27 May 02 - 08:30 AM

I'm trying to improve my ear to recorder playing, one note at a time. I can sight read tunes fairly easily with recorder. If I hear a tune and I like it I try to play it by ear and if I screw up and get frustrated I try to find the notation. Sometimes the black dots don't match the tune exactly but I read the written variation and then alter it if I wish to something closer to what I hear. I like to memorize tunes and find that I can remember the notation in my head faster and more easily than I can memorize the tune to replay; if I get stuck I bring the page up in my head and see what the next note should be. After a while I can remember the tune completely aurally.

Singing is different. If I try to sing a tune I've heard I get it faster than if I try to play it on recorder. But I can't sight sing as accurately. So often times I play a tune on recorder so I can sing it and I sing a tune for recorder so I can play it.

In each case I suppose that if I accepted that it would take more work and practice I could get better at hearing recorder tunes and sight singing, but because I can get the tunes another way I continue to do it the way that works at the moment.

And yes, Shambles, there have been occasional times when I've been working intensively on my sight reading skills that I can hear a tune and bits of it, unfortuneately never all of it, appear in my head as notes on the page. It doesn't happen often but I've always assumed that if I worked harder at the music all these little bits would fall together in place and I'd be able to move easily from visual to aural and back again.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Socorro
Date: 27 May 02 - 01:52 PM

From Terry K. : What I've noticed is that "ear" pianists usually have a very simple left hand, probably just vamping two block chords, which is perfectly adequate for accompanying your friends singing. Whereas most written piano music has bass patterns usually consisting of single notes, and is to me the most difficult part of playing piano. So my question would be, OK, I can understand you playing the treble clef melody by ear, but how do you go about putting a suitable left hand to it? S: Thanks for this. I'm running up against just that issue. I'm attempting to deal with it by learning bass lines from a video that comes with written score, hoping I'' be able it to transfer some patterns to what i do by ear.

From CapriUni: …been fascinated with the ideas around literate cultures (cultures based on writing) and oral cultures... ...YoYoMa mentioned Indian musician who didn't read music learned/perceived music differently. ... He couldn't start playing the piece in the middle, but once he heard the whole thing once through, he knew it cold. S: I've noticed this with me in singing. If i'm asked to reproduce a certain passage (for the pianist & me to get it right) I have to sing it from the beginning. The "right thing" always seems to be the relatiionship to what goes before & after, not a "stand-alone". And: I wonder if there is a left-brained/right-brained thing going on, wih reading & decoding words and music are mainly activities of the left frontal lobe, and spatial (musical?) relationships are the domain of the right. Musical notation may have given the Western cultures complex harmonies, but our rhythms are pretty simple compared to Arabian music, for example...

S: I have suspected something like this, & I'm so glad i brought the question here. (The music-teacher member of our group doesn't see any validity to the idea), which has been slowly dawning on me as i note the differences between her approach and sound -classically trained, and our 2 members who ONLY do aural, and have color and rhythm seemingly "in them", which Kathy ("the musician") doesn't seem to hear,or be able to reproduce. I am also listening to our taped practices, and thinking that my simplistic ear-playing (Kathy & I play piano on different pieces) is sounding at times, much closer to what i would like our accompaniment to sound like someday. I intellectually find this hard to believe, but am not surprised, actually.

From the Shambles: In a purely musical sense I think generally the results of notation not to be such a wonderful thing at all. But it is swings and roundabouts as you say - syncopation has saved us. S: Thanks, I believe it.

From Pict: (this is what I was hoping I would hear!!) Sight reading is useful but a good knowledge of theory is far more useful I learnt by ear then gradually learnt theory if I had to do it again I would do it in exactly the same order.I think being able to play what you hear in your head from solos to large structures is the best point to get to musically and in music the ear rules supreme. S: YAY!!!

From A1: I definitely think playing by written notes (which I used to do with woodwinds) and playing by ear involve opposite sides of the brain. In my case, the cross-communication between sides is kind of slow sometimes. S: I do know I am a very right-brain person. A larger and more interesting question i'd love to know more about is further implications, behaviorally, between pen-&-paper cultures, and aural. Maybe I'll read CapriUni's refs. (I already read Shlain's book- it was excellent, and he came close to making his point, which was very counter received wisdom in this culture we're all operating in)

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 May 02 - 02:52 PM

I, too, am a very right-brained thinker, despite the fact that I work primarily with words... even to the point of understanding and remembering information if I am looking toward the left while I am taking it in (I always preferred to sit to the right of the blackboard in high school and college, and I prefer to look to the left while watching tv, or listening to music. Now that I'm thinking about it, I realize I'm looking slightly to the left as I type this!).

The thing that annoyed me about Shlain's book is that for all his praise of balance between the left and right hemispherical thinking, I found far too many small font, densely worded pages, and far too few pictures.

David Abram's book made the argument far more strongly, imnsho, because he wrote first from his own subjective experience, rather than from theories which may or may not hold all the water poured into them ;-). This also made for a more entertaining read.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 May 02 - 03:18 PM

Is it comfort enough to those who feel different to know that everyone is different? Is it not necessary (for me)to know exactly how our brains differ?

Music is magic, will knowing the mechanical how and why of it, tend to make it less magic?

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CarolC
Date: 27 May 02 - 03:28 PM

I think it's helpful for people to understand that different people perceive things and process them in different ways. And that different people learn in different ways. I think this helps facilitate better communication and learning. It's not uncommon for someone who perceives things or learns things in one particular way, to assume that everyone else does it in the same way.

If, for instance, I'm taking accordion lessons from someone who can hear music in his or her head, and some of my teacher's methods address this particular ability, but do not address the needs of someone who cannot hear music in in his or her head, there will be a breakdown in communication, and learning will very likely not take place.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 02 - 03:43 PM

No, Shambles, knowing the mechanical how and why of it makes it more magical. The basic principles are elegantly simple. It's the myriad of possible combinations and permutations that make it seem complicated and mysterious. If you peer into the machinery, sooner or later you can say "I get it now!" And it's beatiful! And magical!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 May 02 - 04:14 PM

That does not work with the 'sawing the lady in half' trick. *Smiles*

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 May 02 - 04:43 PM

But sawing a lady in half isn't real magic, it's a stage trick....

(And a rather kinky, twisted, mean-spirited trick, at that!)

Music is real Magic! Downright enchanting!

And that's the truth!!!

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Terry K
Date: 27 May 02 - 05:35 PM

Socorro - you must let me know if trying to adopt bass patterns works. Do you find there are "standard" patterns?

What I've seen from my music books is that the bass lines seem not to be standardised, which is frustrating to say the least. I guess I should relate piano bass clef to playing chords on guitar for accompaniment to singing, but again, duh, I fail to spot any real similarity.

Hence the dust on the piano and the fingermarks all over the guitar!

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Socorro
Date: 27 May 02 - 06:50 PM

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Socorro
Date: 27 May 02 - 06:51 PM

Gee, i don't know. Maybe there's someone who does??

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 May 02 - 07:01 PM

Learning to read music is a simple trick, far easier than learning to read ordinary writing as we've all managed (well, all who are reading this, anyway).Training your ear and relating itto your fingers or voice may be hard, but's it's worth it.learn a tune by ear and you've got it for life. Read a tune and...well, you've read a tune. Do you know it? Probably not

Subject: RE: Playing by ear vs. sight-reading
From: Socorro
Date: 27 May 02 - 07:07 PM

Hmm, let me see if i can come up with a coherent answer to your excellent question. My hope and plan, in watching this video and learning the bass part to (by reading the written score that comes with it)... was to hopefully take what i learned to other songs (so I guess i was expecting SOMETHING in the way of patterns), otherwise, since we are very improvisational, that time might be better used. I must say I do expect it to work for me (or I wouldn't be doing it), but i haven't exactly experienced it yet.

It seems to me, that just learning (in my ears and fingers), bass lines that sound good to me, in our genre - traditional black gospel - will at some point help me to use more interesting & rhythmical bass lines in our songs.

I look forward to any & all input.