BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?

Subject: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Ashley
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 03:32 AM

I'm into folk, and pot. Are the two traditionally a good mix? All opinions appreciated!

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 03:41 AM

Smoking ANYTHING is a damn' dopey thing to do! You like "pot"?---Eat it.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:15 AM

This is not a good forum to post this. Previous threads indicate a VERY strong bias.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: alanabit
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:58 AM

Well, when I was younger. It sure "folked" my music up (spelling is not my strongpoint)and did not exactly fire me up to practise. I am not anti pot - other than the fact that I don't wish to inhale smoke any more. I think most of us move on.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:07 AM

Bit like shagging really. Crazy for it when you're young. Then you get past it and think up reasons why it's a Bad Thing. Always very difficult convincing the younger generation about these things, I wonder why?

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:16 AM

Tried that funny smelling tobbaco a couple of times, I didn't think much to it, (it just made me feel drowsy) so I can't really see the attraction.I much prefer a couple of drinks.A word of warning though-I know loads of mad people, and every one of them has smoked cannabis, some of them have now got serious mental health problems (convinced their house is being bugged by spies etc and all kinds of other weird shit!).From what I have seen heavy use of cannabis can really screw your brains up.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:20 AM

mmmmm! So can a couple of drinks.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:23 AM

It's not too bad as a listerner, but can bugger up the performance a bit - losing the thread is all too easy!
I knew a boddhran player, however, who could only play well when stoned. Straight, he was dull as ditchwater, but stoned he had a subtlety and deftness which was awesome. Very dull man, though!

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:37 AM

Gervase: All bodhran players sound better after a few pints! (it all depends who's drinking the pints)

Nigel

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: ozmacca
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:37 AM

Never tried it, never wanted to try it, never felt like trying it...... Your mind's too valuable a piece of kit to risk damaging it in exchange for a doubtful enhancement of the imagination. That goes for drink as well. Been there and don't do it any more. Sorry if I seem stolid or old fashioned, but I've seen some of the results and it ain't worth it.... Most people can get all the enhanced enjoyment they need by educating the mind to develop.

Down off the soapbox........

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:42 AM

Gervase. Stoning bodhrad players, now there's an idea!

Personally, I don't smoke anything these days, and prefer a smoke free (of any flavour) environment anyway. Other than that, to each his/her own.

Like JfH, tried it a couple of times in younger days, but not that impressed.

Brian

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:45 AM

Gotta say, no from here. Have never been into it, and never will be.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:52 AM

Greg. I grew out of smoking, I never did grow out of the other. can't see a damn thing now! :-)

Brian

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 07:31 AM

I tried smoking pot at university, I'm not into it now, I don't see the fascination. Oh BTW, I have quit smoking cigarettes!!! It has been 7 days since I had one, I'm not craving them and I not really that bothered. I feel great! Anyone that knows me always saw me with a pint in one hand and a cig in the other at sessioms and festivals. Well not anymore!!!!!

A smoke free Cat .....meow!

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 07:34 AM

Guess it gets back to how you define 'folk'

If 1960s singer songwriters with acoustic guitars are 'folk' to you, then it probably is.

If however, 'folk' means older traditional songs to you, then no it isn't.

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Kelticgrasshopper
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 08:19 AM

Bodhran Bashing again..Come on now..A "smoking" drummer, pun intended..is the heart beat of any Celtic group. You know it, anyone who listens too and appreciates good Celtic/Irish music knowes it!! The "drummers" that have show up at sessions and pound away have given the rest of us a BAD rep. Please be kind enough to admit that "sometimes" the bodhran is an enjoyable part of a music presentation....I can't wait to see what is said about this one.. LOL

KGH

Subject: RE: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 08:48 AM

Kelticgrasshopper. My comment was an off the cuff joke, with no malice intended to anyone. Sorry it touched your tender spot.

'Please be kind enough to admit that "sometimes" the bodhran is an enjoyable part of a music presentation'. O.K. I admit it. Who knows what dizzy heights a band might reach while stood on a bodhran. :-) Happy now?

To get this thread back on track.

Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?

No. Not IMO. I've never known of pot smoking make anybody into a folkie. I have known of it turn a few folkies (and others) into a complete mess.

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Kim C
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 10:14 AM

Never cared for it. It stinks, it makes your throat dry, and makes your contact lenses stick to your eyeballs.

I tried it maybe, 4-5 times, ever. The last time I smoked, about 15 years ago, I got really bad throwin-up sick. So I never did it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 10:27 AM

Is it a 'folk' thing to do? Not necessarily; I would never recommend it to anyone. I've used it for years and still enjoy it. Plenty of musicians I know use it regularly, and I've never seen it pose a problem, except to those who already had problems. I'm sure some of the 'just say no' crowd speaking here in opposition to pot choose to enjoy far more toxic substances, like whisky and tobacco. Pot has never interfered with my performance or impacted my mental ability in the least; if anything, it inspires me to practice more. Voters in Nevada will have a chance to vote on legalizing small amounts of it this fall, and I say, go for it. We need the jail space for all the crooked politicians and accountants anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Foe
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 10:43 AM

Back in olden days, 1940s, pot was a jazz thing. Gene Kruper got busted once. In Tucson, in the early 60s, if anyone wanted to smoke they had to go to South Tucson to by a reefer (the other side of the tracks - so to speak). The Arizona Pioneers Historical Society museum had a little pile of smokes in a glass case said to be confiscated from Chinese RR workers in the 1880s. I believe someone once told Dylan he should smoke before he performed and he said he'd tried it once (before performing) and it threw his timing off. If you're serious about your music no magic substance will make you play better.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 10:54 AM

I thought I was going to be the first to say this but Guest Foe beat me to it. Get stoned if you want. It probably won't do any harm, if you stay out of jail. Don't perform stoned. How can anything that screws up your timing behind the wheel of a car, improve it behind a guitar(or a bodhran)?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:15 AM

Ah, yes, how foolish it all is...

I will quote Joan Baez, who once said (back in the glorious 60's) "It's silly to make marijuana illegal...of course, it's silly to smoke it too."

That's exactly how I feel about it. To smoke any substance is silly. Pot smoke stinks, it dries out your throat, and it definitely does not help you play music better. It's bad for your lungs and it makes your eyes hurt too.

Every young generation does idiotic and basically innocuous things in their search for experience and identity. Some pierce their bodies with multiple metal objects, some get tattoos, some adopt hairstyles that would frighten a mandrill, some smoke pot, some drink and suffer a miserable hangover the next day. Most of them manage to survive these practices in the long run, although alcohol ends quite a few lives prematurely, as do cigarettes. Pot doesn't end lives, it just trivializes them.

Silly, silly, silly...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Gypsy
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:24 AM

Hate labels.....if you are going to smoke, smoke. If you are going to drink, drink. But don't do it at my session. We stay totally clean, and on the same level. Sure makes it easier to play with a group of people when all are like minded.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:25 AM

Paranoia Alert

In today's USA political climate a public forum might not be the best place to 'come out', so to speak...

For the record, I have never tried it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:39 AM

for the record I have, but of course I didnt inhale.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: IvanB
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:46 AM

Ebbie, I frankly doubt that our president could truthfully deny having used substances less legal than alcohol - and the "I didn't inhale" excuse has already been taken.

I agree with Guest, Foe that it's probably been more traditionally associated with jazz artists. Never thought it was much of a big deal, although I thought brownies were a much more pleasant means of ingestion than smoking it, both for the ingestee and those around.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE NO-NO SONG (Ringo Starr)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:49 AM

Ringo Starr & His All-Starr Band

C     G   F    C
  Ahhhh-ahh-ahhh-ahhh
  C     G   F    C
  Ahhhh-ahh-ahhh-ahhh    

C             G                   F      C
  A lady that I know just came from Columbia.
      F                              C
  She smiled because I did not understand.
  C                           F
  Then she held out some marijuana, oh-ho.
      G                               C
  She said it was the best in all the land.    

             C
  And I said, "No-no-no-no, I don't smoke it no more.
                                G
  I'm tired of waking up on the floor.
  G7
  No thank you, please; it only makes me sneeze,
                                    C
  Then it makes it hard to find the door."    

Ahhhh-ahh-ahhh-ahhh
  Ahhhh-ahh-ahhh-ahhh    

A lady that I know just ?Myoca?, Spain.
  She smiled because I did not understand.
  Then she held out a ten-pound bag of cocaine.
  She said it was the best in all the land.    

And I said, "No-no-no-no, I don't * no more.
  I'm tired of waking up on the floor.
  No thank you, please; it only makes me sneeze,
  Then it makes it hard to find the door."    

A man I know just came from Nashville, Tennessee-o.
  He smiled because I did not understand.
  Then he held out come moonshine whiskey, oh-ho.
  He said it was the best in all the land.    

And I said, "No-no-no-no, I don't drink it no more.
  I'm tired of waking up on the floor.
  No thank you, please; it only makes me sneeze,
  Then it makes it hard to find the door."    

I said, "No-no-no-no, I can't take it no more.
  I'm tired of waking up on the floor.
  No thank you, please; it only makes me sneeze,
  Then it makes it hard to find the door."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

HTML preformat commands added. --JoeClone, 15-Nov-02.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:51 AM

I heard they had just decriminalized cannabis in the UK - rather ambivalently since it seems it's okay to possess and smoke but illegal to deal in it. Does this mean you can roll a joint just about anywhere and smoke it, as long as you're reasonably discreet?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:56 AM

Either time, greg? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: pict
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:05 PM

They haven't decriminalised it they have reclassified it to a class C drug so it's not an arrestable offence to posess a small amount but it is still an arrestable offence to deal it or grow it.The class C status means that the UK government views cannabis to be as dangerous as steroids and anti depressants.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:06 PM

All I can offer is from personal experience. Used to do it. Quit some time ago.

In retrospect I realize I had developed a big case of what I think the mental health folks call "state-conditioned learning". The premise is that if you learn how to do something in an altered state of consciousness, you don't do it as well in a normal state. The only time I wanted to play music was when I was stoned. When I was stoned, the only thing I wanted to do was play music. I could play straight, it just wasn't any fun. If I listen to old tapes of my stoned self playing, I hear a very idiosyncratic style that was not really well adapted to playing in a band. Pot made me listen to what was coming out of my instrument instead of the other band members. Several folks remarked on how much more solid my playing was after I quit smoking.

I still have lots of friends that smoke, and I don't have any problem with it. They do it for their reasons - I quit for mine.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:12 PM

Sorry, Noreen.it does make you repetitive and boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:23 PM

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:29 PM

There is no direct connection between Pot Smoking and folk music, it's just that in the 60's and early 70's many of the sort of people who went in for one tended to go in for the other. I can think of one well-known fiddle player who did use pot a lot and whose health has suffered seriously as result. On the other hand, I also know a folk magazine editor in her 60's who still enjoys a spliff, and is in very good health.

I used to enjoy the odd joint, but I don't like smoking (or smoky atmospheres) so it's something I grew out of. Mind you, I wouldn't turn down the odd hash cookie !

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: little john cameron
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:51 PM

Ah forgot what I was going to say!! hahahahehehah.ljc

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,McGrath
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:01 PM

I can't see why they stop at Class C, with the rest if the alphabet still available. I'd like to see a Class D for Tobacco and Alcohol, Class E for Coffee and Chocolate. I'd put Pot in one of those categories.

Mormons arre the only consistent people on drugs. They ban those Class D and E ones as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:03 PM

Shouldnt tea be in there with coffee and chocolate?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:21 PM

My day job involves working with 16-25 yr olds some smoke pot or do other drugs, some drink to excess and some are just young adults trying to make their way in the world. The pot smokers, (and those who do Amphetamines) have a tendancy to have more problems with life than the others, as these two drugs seem to distroy ambition, and enthusiasm, and can tip a fragile mind over the edge. Also long term use means they are mixing with criminals who have a vested intrest in keeping them on the stuff, and moving them onto harder drugs. Last month I visited three different YP in various Mental Hospitals. This is not dogma, just 18 years experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: DougR
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:32 PM

Probably, Guest Ashley, but if you want to be a REAL Folkie, you got to blow the smoke out of the left side of your mouth and Your left nostril. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:47 PM

"They are mixing with criminals who have a vested intrest in keeping them on the stuff, and moving them onto harder drugs."

Which is the main argument for decriminalising the stuff. As for ambition and enthusiasm - if you're short on ambition and enthusiasm, smoking a lot of dope might be particularly attractive. In which case the attitude would be the cause rather than the effect of using.

Graham Greene once suggested that all restrictions on these kind of things could be abolished once you reach the age of 50 or so. Makes a lot of sense. It'd probably put most most young people off the whole thing. Except that what they'd go in for instead would probably be far worse.

I don't get it - it's legal to have bits of metal inserted in all parts of the body, with all kinds of potentially dangerous dangerous consequences, but smoking a joint or eating a hash brownie is a crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:58 PM

Like Mike Cahill I work with young people with problems, but I have to say I draw different conclusions. I wouldn't dream of saying pot is totally harmless: but if I started listing the things that were generating the problems in the kids'lives, in order of importance, it would be a helluva long way down the list before I got to pot-smoking. Like McGrath, I would classify it in the symptoms column, not among the causes.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Anon
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 02:00 PM

granny wont ya smoke some, granny wont ya smoke some, granny wont ya smoke some MARIJUANA!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Chip2447
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 02:32 PM

BTDT...got the T-shirt. I have a tenuous enough grasp on reality as it is, I dont need any outside help to make me goofy, lazy, hungry, or the myriad of other things that cannibis consuption will do for you, or to you. Wonder why they call it dope?
Chip2447

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: weepiper
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 03:10 PM

Agree with Greg Stephens here... I think the 'cannabis turns you into a loser' argument is totally wrong. The sort of people who become apathetic after smoking lots of dope would probably have done so anyway. I smoked my wee head off all through university and held down a part-time job and still managed to get a First. Likewise the 'gateway to harder drugs' theory. I've never been in the least tempted to try anything harder though I know several people who do. I just don't see the attraction. I have to say though that the gateway thing is really an argument FOR legalisation because if you have to go to a dealer to get dope, then it's putting you right in front of all those harder drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: RichM
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 03:38 PM

Well, Yeah! It IS a folk thing...
At the risk of appearing trite, ain't never seen no horse do it...

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:13 PM

No, pot is not a folk thing. Not compared to jazz, and especially not if you compare it to rock. I can't speak for other parts of the world, but in the Seattle area during the Fifties there was plenty of opportunity for pot to rear its head, but it just wasn't in evidence. It was used by a few jazz musicians in this area, though. In the early Sixties, suddenly it seemed as if everybody was using the stuff, but in reality, most of the folk singers and folk song enthusiasts that I was acquainted with (not just in Seattle) didn't use it. About four or five singers out of a dozen or so who sang regularly at one particular coffee house seemed to be heavily into the stuff, and I knew a few people who were not especially into folk music who smoked it, but it seemed to be more of a Sixties thing than a folk music thing.

Assuming I'm covered by the statute of limitations, I was persuaded to try it in 1964. It made me a bit woozy, and I experienced minor space-time anomalies for a brief period, but to me, it wasn't that great a thrill. I woke up the following morning with my mouth tasting like a cesspool, and it was difficult to concentrate because I felt very fuzzy-headed. This was highly annoying because I was at a folk festival and there was a workshop that morning that I was especially interested in and I wanted to be sharp (the people I'd been with the previous evening missed the workshop entirely). A couple of months later I was persuaded to try it again. This time, I didn't even have the space-time anomalies, it just made me feel like I'd hyperventilated, and the following morning I had the same foul taste in my mouth. By then, I knew everything I wanted to know about pot. Hell, just gimme a beer!

This I did notice:— whenever the pot came out at a songfest (which was extremely rare until the mid-Sixties), those who indulged often sat around praising themselves and each other with comments like "Man, you've never sounded so good!" or "Man, I've never sounded so good!" when, in actuality, they were off-pitch half the time, they're sense of rhythm had vanished, and they were stumbling all over their fingerboards. Most of them played and sang a helluva lot better when they were straight. It's interesting to note that most of them aspired to fame and fortune, but they never actually worked at their music that hard. It occurred to me that they didn't really have to. Get together with a few like-minded friends, pass the joint around a few times, and they had their own Carnegie Hall right there in their cozy little cloud of pot smoke.

I quit smoking anything twenty-four years ago.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: RichM
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:13 PM

...on the other hand, as the song says: "Cocaine's for horses, not for men "

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:43 PM

Nice post, Don

Pot is great for dreamers, but not much help in real life

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:48 PM

"Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?"

Heh... is there ANYTHING that is a 'folk' thing to do?

Besides bickering on the internet about totally vacuous and inane topics?

Nope... not even that eh...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: little john cameron
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:52 PM

Eh! What was the question again. ljc

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: aussiebloke
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:57 PM

he he...

I didn't get these bags under my eyes from reading in a poor light.

aussiebloke

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: little john cameron
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:00 PM

Oh wait,now I remember.
It could be said that I am trying to intertwine Gross Material Universe with it's Finer counterpart in the Noumenal Realms.
Over the years I have spend a great deal of Energy and Deep Thinking in an attempt to unlock the secrets of existance.
Obviously,the result of these Alchemystic endeavours must remain hidden to idle prying and indolent conjecturers.The Great Masterplan must not be sullied by base interpretations.
When examined closely with the Inner Eye,a complete picture will form in the mind of the Seeker which will unite the Long and the Short,The Fat and the Thin,in fact all will be reavealed as a Majestic Whole without a gap.

Therefore,do not be dismayed,dear friends!I am on the trail and will stop at nothing to free the world from the chains of ignorance and the surrepticious machinations of the Evil ONE.

ljc
Very logical Jim.Now how about a chorus of "Row,row,row your boat.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:05 PM

Hey, cool

Chill out guys!

Just give me another toke.

Beautiful

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:10 PM

The Taliban tried banning music as well as smoking dope and drinking booze. They were consistent about these things. If it makes you feel good, it must be bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:12 PM

"If it makes you feel good, it must be bad."

That's a very christian attitude there!

LOL!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Mooh
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 06:47 PM

Well, once upon a time I thought it was kinda cute for others to do until they started acting like idiots, though I didn't apply the same standard to myself where beer was concerned. All smoke (legal and otherwise) offends me today from a second hand perspective and I avoid it as much as I can. Since I don't drink anymore either, I suppose I'm a pretty dull boy, even if I am much happier.

What the hell any of this has to do with folk is completely beyond me. Having encountered pot outside the folk world much more than within it, I'd say there's no particular connection. Any connection will have more to do with image and lifestyle I suspect, both sorely misguided and illinformed.

But to be more direct...pot and folk do not enjoy a "tradition", and pot and anything are not a good mix.

Please rethink your pleasures.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 07:00 PM

"pot and folk do not enjoy a "tradition"

I wouldn't bet on that. I remember once an article about an old uilleann piper who said that, when he was a lad, they used to use the stems of hemp plants to keep the pipes airtight. And they'd smoke the leaves as a change from tobacco, and cheaper.

And when it comes to folk music such as Blues and Mexican, there's a fairly long-standing association. As strong as that between beer and the English traditions.

There's not too much of a tradition of prohibition generally in folksong. Apart from the odd temperance song - and even they get stood on their head - viz what happened to the Wild Rover.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 09:07 PM

The way I remember the 60's, the kids into rock were the "heads" who were into things like pot and other drugs. The "folkies" were doing coffee, tea and health food in their coffeehouses, and the "juicers" (beer and booze) were listening to Credence Clearwater.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 10:15 PM

That's about the way I remember it too, Barbara. In the 70's it became a bit more muddled. Virtually all the young people I knew in the early 70's smoked pot either occasionally or regularly...simply because it was "the thing to do". They were conforming to the expectations of their peer group, and trying very hard to be hip and cool. It was almost unthinkable to be so "unhip" as not to occasionally smoke pot. So I didn't. I was and still am one the great nonconformists of all time. I was also about the only person I knew at the time who didn't smoke cigarettes. If you smoked one, it was pretty damned likely you would smoke the other, given those social times.

The legal system, which is a past master at hypocrisy, chose to make the less dangerous substance (pot) illegal and keep the more dangerous one (tobacco) legal. They did so, again, because of social conformity...and established mercantile power systems.

A pox on all of them as far as I'm concerned. They were just doing what they thought they were "supposed to do".

There are very few people in this world who are truly willing to think for themselves in an independent fashion.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM

A word about the physical effects of pot: In India in the 1800's the English wanted to tax pot but it was suggested that if it were bad for you, taxing it would be immoral. So they did a major study on a population in which it had been a part of the culture for centuries. The medical commision was unable to find anything wrong with pot (it was the 1880's, I think. Not modern but the science was good enough for what they were doing.). They ended up taxing salt anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 06:40 AM

Then I ask this...When did pot and folk become specifically related, as opposed to being common elements of society at large? Did pot creep into UK folk at the same time as it did the folk of the southern US, South Africa, elsewhere? It was not always a part of the singer/songwriter/folk culture was it?

I still don't think pot is/was as universally enjoyed by the folk community as some would have it, at least when compared to other communities within general society, like the rock audience, the biker scene, the drug community, and hell, there was alot of pot in the disco era where I came from.

Was this phenomenon regional? Cultural? Exploitive?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: Lyr Add: POT SONG (Jeremy Taylor)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 07:41 AM

With the topicality of this thread, I think it's time to hear from Jeremy Taylor on the vexatious subject.

POT SONG
Jeremy Taylor

I smoke a lot of pot, man,
It helps me to keep sane.
I sometimes have a shot of cocaine.
Just a little puff,
Helps me to unwind.
And when I've had enough
Oh, I really blow my mind.
Ring a Ring 'o' roses, a pocket full of pot,
Hash and cannabis resin, I've smoked the lot.

(spoken)
Now a lot of people ask me why I smoke the stuff. The mari-ju-ana or 'old bedsocks' as it's sometimes known. Well, the fact is, man, I'll smoke anything.

(sung)
Now hash a bye my baby, high on the tree top,
When the wind blows your mind, you'll be safe on pot.

(spoken)
One thing it has done for me now, I must say, it has broadened my 'percepteral' horizons. I mean, that hole in the ceiling that lets the rain in used to be just a hole, but now it's a whole scene, man, you know, it's way out, and groovy, and still lets the bloody rain in.

(sung)
My vision is amazing; I can make things fit.
People see me gazing and say I'm a stupid twit!
But I'm thankful to The Times, for helping our campaign
To legalise can-ar-bis, and help me to keep sane


Transcribed from "Spike Milligan & Jeremy Taylor 'Live' at Cambridge University 2/12/'73"
NP

CHEERS Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:10 AM

I'm actually surprised to hear about a connection today between the folk scene and pot. It doesn't seem that way to me. From my vantage, it looks pretty much like it did in the 60's (see above), although the "juicers" are now listening to country music (which actually sounds like Credence, doesn't it?). There's the occasional whiff of grass at Grey Fox Festival (formerly called Winterhawk), mostly because of the young rock crowd that shows up to party. Other than that, it's absent in the music scene I'm around, which is folk, bluegrass and classical.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 01:58 PM

Vast numbers of "straight" people used to think that folk singers and "beatniks" were all scraped from the bottom of the same Dumpster. Not all beatniks were folk singers, but all folk singers were beatniks (later, the word "beatnik" was replaced with the word "hippie," but they were not the same thing). And, of course, everybody in that same Dumpster smoked pot and/or took LSD. Actually, those who considered themselves to be "Beats" tended to be into poetry and jazz, often in combination, and didn't much care for folk music. In fact, a lot of them regarded folk singers with contempt.

It seems to me that associating pot with folk music is something that is done, not by observing reality and not by folk music enthusiasts themselves, but by many people who accept some half-assed media stereotype as the real thing. As I mentioned in my above post, during the Sixties, there were not all that many of my folk singing friends and acquaintances who were involved.

And today, of the umpteen-dozen folk singers and folk music aficionados that I know personally, I can only think of two or three who might occasionally sneak off for a toke. And that's just wild speculation, not based on anything I actual know or have heard. In the homes I've been to within the past few decades where people gather for songfests and "hoots," lighting up a joint would get you a fast escort to the door with the admonition to get the hell out and never come back. Lighting a cigarette might just get you the same treatment. At these affairs, the enjoyment comes, not from sitting around inhaling quantities of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-filled smoke, but from singing good songs with good friends.

During the late Eighties, I worked for an accounting firm as a technical writer. I ran into more people there (suit and tie types) who were into pot than I ever did in the folk music community.

The stereotypes have it that in the Sixties we all wore long hair, beards, psychedelic shirts and flared slacks, and sat around playing guitars, singing protest songs, and smoking pot. This actually did happen! In the movies and on TV—and in real life (if it can be called that) by small number of brainless wannabes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 02:26 PM

LOL! Good post, Don. It is indeed the brainless wannabees who somehow created the impression that resided in the minds of straight society.

By the way, all the young fellows that I knew in Toronto in the early 70's were into "progressive rock", the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, the Who, and other stuff like that...and they all seemed to worship mind-altering substances. Their awareness of Bob Dylan stretched to about 3 or 4 of his most famous songs.

I was the only one I knew who was into folk, and I was utterly uninterested in mind-altering substances.

Says a lot, doesn't it?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:01 PM

Don...Pretty much my observations too. Out of the hundreds of folkies I've encountered, no larger a percentage of them are stoners than in other walks of life, including I suspect the born-againers, so I still don't see a specific connection. I bet we define folk differently than the original poster (oh oh what is folk?!).

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:24 PM

Well, I think for at least the period of the mid-60s, Folk music and pot went hand-in-hand. Both were incorporated into the Beat Culture of the time, and both were initially outside the mainstream. As the counter-culture folks aged, they took Folk Music with them, and left the reefer to their successors, although some of us might still have a lid in the back of the closet somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:31 PM

Not withing my experience, Lonesome EJ. Did you read what I wrote in my post above? I was there. Not just in Seattle, but in San Francisco and Berkeley as well.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 05:15 PM

Did you notice very many people taking short walks and coming back in a really good mood, Don?

I don't buy the "half-assed media stereotype" comment. I do believe the following

A) "Folk Music", like Jazz, was a music style with greater popularity among people like musicians, college students, poets, readers of Kerouac, bohemians, artists etc.

B) Pop and Big Band music was a music style with greater popularity among the main stream people like VFW Post members, housewives, car salesmen, and auto mechanics, etc.

C)Group A has been shown in numerous studies to have been more likely than Group B to smoke marijuana in the 1960s.

D) There is nothing wrong now, nor was there then, with Group A smoking marijuana, other than the fact that it was a criminal offense at that time.

The fact that you didn't see anyone smoking it would indicate either 1) nobody smoked pot around you or 2)between the time you entered the Folk Scene in the early sixties and the time I entered it in the late 60 there had been a sea-change in the outlook toward marijuana.

Respectfully yours,

LEJ

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 06:19 PM

Actually, I entered the folk scene in the early Fifties before there was much of a folk scene, and I watched the whole thing develop from the very few of us who were interested in folk music before it was "the thing to do," on into the Sixties and Seventies and beyond. If you read my initial post, you'll note that I say that pot didn't make itself really evident until the mid-Sixties. From that point on, I saw plenty of it. But it was mostly people who had come into it within the past year or two and who regarded the Kingston Trio and the New Christy Minstrels were source singers. Some stuck with folk music after the "Folk Scare" faded, and many others either dropped out or went on to rock.. There was a lot of pot and other drugs there. In fact, I had a couple of friends who "graduated" from folk music to rock who very soon killed themselves with overdoses of the hard stuff. Damned tragic!

But among those I know who stuck with folk music, and most of the newcomers (since the Seventies), pot, if it is there at all, is very peripheral. Yes, I do see an occasional person wander off, then return a bit later. And I know they're smoking because they come back with tobacco on their breath—and yes, I do know the difference. I'm not saying that an occasion joint doesn't get consumed, but at least where I have been in recent decades, it's pretty rare and very discrete. And I can't see how anyone can reasonably claim that there is any more association between folk music and pot than there is between, say, ballroom dancing and pot. I'm quite sure a few ballroom dancers smoke pot. But an occasional Baptist minister does, too.

And as far as folk music being part of the Beat Culture, that just wasn't so—except in the minds of the general public. People who regarded themselves a Beats had a real antipathy toward folk singers. Believe me, I was there!

I'm not making any moral judgments about pot. I personally chose not to indulge. If anybody else wants to, feel free.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 06:57 PM

Pot isn't really an important enough thing to make moral judgements about. :-)

But to my friends in the early 70's it was a veritable sacrament! This is amusing now...matter of fact, it was even amusing then, to me anyway. I would say that among the real "folk" people in Toronto at that time, casual pot smoking was probably fairly common. Like I said, it was "the thing to do". I believe it had far more to do with the age group, essentially, than the choice of music (in the case of folk music).

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 08:55 PM

"...but fortunately I have the key
To escape reality.

And you may see me tonight with an illegal smile
It don't cost very much, and it lasts a long while
So won't you please tell the man I didn't kill anyone
I'm just tryin' to have me some fun."

OK everyone, DISCUSS: Is John Prine "folk"? (Just kidding)

I like to get all folked up on some Humboldt and jam with my buddies sometimes, but as has been said above, it messes up your timing. But then you don't know that unless you're recording...

What were we talking about?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:15 PM

Folkies also often tend to eat fish and chips. Just another of these strange activities we seem to go in for that mark us out from the rest of society.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 10:17 PM

Ahhhhh...I dunno man...were we talkin' about...somethin'???....uhhhhh....

Geez...who could go for some pizza, eh?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 01:42 AM

With all due respect GUEST Ashley, "is pot smoking a 'folk' thing to do?" is not exactly a brilliant question. Other than random juxtaposition, there's no real connection. McGrath, who seems to have a knack for cutting through the piffle and getting to the heart of the matter, sums it up nicely.

"Is fish and chips a 'folk' thing to do?" I guess so. I don't smoke pot, but I love fish and chips.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Ashley
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 03:51 AM

I'm a new school folkie an' I like to smoke grass Ain't superstitious, an' don' wanna be crass I'm a-workin' an' a-playin' an' a-hard, indeed Please don' a-judge me if'n I smoke a lil' weed

-ashley r.c.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 06:13 AM

Ashley. I don't see anyone being judgemental on this.

The point that is being made is that being a folkie doesn't mean you smoke grass, smoking grass does not make you, or stop you from being a folkie. I and many of my folk friends camp on grass, but you don't have to be a folkie to go camping. Doing one thing does not (or should not)imply the other. In that respect, the question does not make sense.

Everybody to their own, just as long as it doesn't impact on others.

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:08 PM

Don, I suppose where you and I differ is on my statement that folksingers during the "folk scare" were more likely to smoke pot than your average citizen. I would still tend to believe that, although your presence at the time and in that scene has given me serious doubts. Is there any correlation among folksingers today? I doubt it. I would say that folksingers under the age of thirty are probably much more likely to smoke than those over that age.

I would also agree with Hawk that entirely too much is made of reefer and whether one does or doesn't partake. We should legalize it, remove the stigma, and let all of those who wish to, indulge.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:21 PM

Lonesome EJ, I think what clouds the issue is the sudden increase in the use of pot turing the late Sixties and into the Seventies. Yes, more folk singers were smoking pot, but then there was a general increase in pot smoking. Zeroing in on folk singers creates a false impression of what really was really going on.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:22 PM

I've never smoked pot, but have been to lots of student parties where the air was thick with it.

Can I be the first to claim that I didn't smoke it, but I did inhale?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:29 PM

Don, you said that most "beats" frowned on Folk Music. Was this because Jazz was the music they preferred? My impression was that, by the time the Greenwich Village scene was going full steam with Dylan, Richard Farina, PP&M, Joan Baez, etc, that Folk Music had become the soundtrack of the beats. Or was the beat movement pretty much over by then?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:43 PM

Yeah, I think the beat movement was pretty much over by then. Bob Nelson (Deckman) and I were barnstorming in the San Francisco Bay area in 1959, and we hit a few of the places where the beats hung out. Poetry and jazz, usually in combination, was the thing. I'm not sure why they held folk music in such low esteem, but all you needed to do to get someone to roll their eyes was mention that you were a folk singer.

Most people tend to use "beat" and "hippie" interchangeably, which leads to a lot of confusion, but there was a philosophical difference. Hippies often gravitated to folk music, but the beats rarely, if ever.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:48 PM

Have you all forgotten one of the most universal truths of all time? That is, nothing is black/white. Nothing is cut and dry. There is never a single answer or a single combination that is true. Pot smoking does wonderful things for some and totally screws up others. Personally, I smoke a grip every day while enjoying my slot on the Dean's list, scholarships, an undergraduate research grant/fellowship and anxiously await my publication in a peer-reviewed professional journal. Oh yeah, I'm not half bad on a guitar either. As was previously mentioned, if you lack ambition or creativity, you certainly won't find it in pot. Likewise, if you got it, you got it. Pot isn't who or what you are. It's an activity. Do it if you want and don't if you don't, but please stop generalizing. It makes you sound ignorant.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: GUEST,Cherry
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 03:39 PM

"Smoke a grip"? That's a new one!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Pot Smoking a 'Folk' thing to do?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 04:09 PM

GUEST - We ALL sound ignorant...to those who are in marked philosophical disagreement with us about something...but your point is still well taken.

My obseration is that most of the people I knew who smoked grass a lot were hampered by it to some extent. It tended to make them lazier and less motivated. This, again, may just have been their basic tendency anyway, but the grass aggravated it. Then there were some who did not suffer those effects.

All in all, it's a far less debilitating habit than alcoholism, that's for sure.

- LH