BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!

Subject: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Banjer
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:30 PM

I couldn't believe my ears when I turned on the tube tonight. After the great vote debacle two years ago, the powers that be have managed to bungle it again! Some voting machines that don't work, others that have to have a one hour warm up after being turned on, polls not open on time (and not being turned on until seven am when polls are supposed to open), other polling places without the necessary cards that are required for each person voting at that precinct, people being again turned away.....It boggles the mind! The highlight of the news show was that Janet Reno herself was unable to vote this morning because her precinct was unprepared at opening time! The Sate of Florida has once again surpassed their incompitence!!

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:55 PM

Well, you see, it is just because efficiency attracts terrorists, and that's risky....

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:58 PM

Dear God, If that the best the US of A can do ...... !

Thank the Lord here in the backward UK a simple paper ballot, a pencil, and a manual count (in front of scruitineers) produces an accurate count.

It's so simple it's impossioble to fiddle to any meaningful extent.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:10 PM

Well Banj Ol' Friend, I gotta' say y'all have done it again!!! On the other hand, the saving grace of the sunshine state is that it makes the US appear to be pissing on Cuba!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:23 PM

we voted today (Maryland)with a new 'touch screen' TV like thing that seemed to work fine!..I was impressed--it would not let you vote for too many, and it allowed you to go 'back' and change mistakes before pushing the "do it" button...

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Mudlark
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:30 PM

Apparently the powers that be (guess who?!) in Fla. feel that not only efficiency is too risky, so is democracy.

The Three Scruitineers sounds like a better bet....

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:41 PM

It's a G*d damned disgrace, is what it is.!Don't those people know to test the machines before they set them up? I'm beginning to think this state is run by a clown school.

The November election will most likely be a repeat of the disaster in 2000. I'm ashamed to be a Floridian at this point, with K Harris running amuck and the latest Bush family scandal continuing....

I saw a billboard sign on I10 today. It said, "College lectures and political speeches, Tallahasee is a great place to sleep!"....

I need to leave!!!!

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:42 PM

about the Florida situation: They don't wanta do too good of a job right away....folks would begin to expect it!

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 10:40 PM

Inefficiency my ass -- the Bushies do it on purpose.

According to a recent report on Pacifica Radio, Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris hired a private firm before the last presidential election to come up with a list of felons living in Florida who could be stricken from the voter lists. This firm came up with 94,000 names of Florida residents who were then denied their right to vote on election day.

Turns out the list was 95% inaccurate -- only about 3,000 of those people really were convicted felons who had forfeited their voting rights. Some of the folks on the list had conviction dates of the year 2007, ferchrissakes! These people have not been reinstated -- they STILL cannot vote in Florida. And wouldn't you guess: most of them are black or other minorities, and expected to vote Democrat.

This is the dog that Shrubya wants so desperately to keep under the porch. This is why he wants to go to war in Iraq... to keep distracting us from the fact of the basic unlawfulness of his regime.

Michael

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 11:03 PM

Normal...

Hey, what did you expect.

Jim Crow like a vampire. You're only gonna kill it is with a stake thru the heart (figuratively speakin').

Bobert

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 02:15 AM

Well . . . there are some nice people who live in Florida. But politically speaking, I would say we ought to saw it loose and let it drift out into the Bermuda Triangle.

A whole lotta people are gonna be closely watchin' the Jeb 'n' Katey show this coming November.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Kaleea
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 02:50 AM

What I don't understand is why everybody thought it would be different for the next election. Nobody ever let the ACLU go in & sue for damages, no one ever bothered to make certain that the voting machines were replaced, no one made sure that someone followed through with the promises made after the last election was bought & paid for. no one has a name, and the name is one & the same as the one who took whatever steps were necessary to insure that the family bank accounts would be filled to overflowing.

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Banjer
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 03:32 AM

no one ever bothered to make certain that the voting machines were replaced

These ARE all new touch screen voting machines, that's the sad part! They've farted around for two years, spending millions to get nowhere!

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Troll
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:11 AM

michaelr, those voting lists were supposed to be verified by the Supervisor of Elections in each county and they had the right to accept or reject the list. The list may have been flawed to the point of uselessness but its final usage cannot be blamed on Bush and Harris. That fault lies squarly on the doorstep of the counties that accepted the list without checking it first as they were duty-bound to do.
I don't know how many were Democrat and how many were Republican. I do know that the Supervisor in Alachua County where I live, rejected the list. Bev, BTW, is a Democrat.

troll

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:23 AM

FLORIDA - The home of Electorial Disfunctionality !

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Banjer
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:30 AM

I heard our Secretary of State say, when asked his thoughts on the matter, 'I wonder what in the hell have they been doing the last two years'....Speaking of the folks responsible for assembling the new voting systems. This added to all the woes brought upon us by the Department of Children and Families (DCF) not being able to account for all the children in their care, actually losing some 140 or so....Are we the only state with these kind of monumental problems???

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Tweed
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:49 AM

I guess so Banjer. I live in Palm Beach County and there were only "minor" problems here, like two registration cards with different precincts sent to many individuals and screwed up legal notices published in the Post by our Supervisor of Selections. The touch screens worked well, but with the level of trust down here, I have to kick myself to keep from wondering if all ballot info is really going anywhere. By the way, any other Floridian Mudcatters notice that your race is noted on your registration card? Just wondering as mine shows my birthdate, then W - M -DEM on there. What's my race or anybody elses' have to do with a vote card? That went out a long time ago didn't it?....
Whoops~ fergot whar the hell I live.
Tweed

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:45 AM

This from the morning mullett wrapper:

Union county's optical scan system that tallied ballots marked with special pens showed that every vote cast was for a Republican candidate. The machines were tested without any problems last week but those tests were preformed with incorrect ballots.

Debbie Osborne, North Florida Union county assistant supervisor of elections said, "The wrong test ballots were sent. We didn't know it. So tonight as soon as the first precinct was recorded, everything showed up as a Republican vote, no matter what races people were voting for."

Sounds fishy to me....

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:12 AM

I heard on the TV last night that the polls in Florida stayed open for an extra two hours because of the problems with the new voting machines. I heard on the radio this morning that the polling places in some counties closed at the previously appointed time despite being ORDERED to stay open those extra two hours!!

There was a "sound-bite" of an interview with someone who said that it would take some time to fix the voting problems in Florida. My immediate thought was that they won't be fixed until after the 2004 presidential election.

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:34 AM

SharonA: I think it's "Fixed" already

Nigel

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Tweed
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:01 PM

24 hours later and still no declared winner down here...again. Hadn't heard anything about a totally Republican county Harpgirl. The lines down this way must be down. I'll keep looking for it, but I expect it'll get swept away. Heard a sound byte from Jeb, who wondered in front of the cameras, "What's wrong with these Democrats? Why can't they vote right?" I'll ask this one again cause I'm real interested to know....Anybody else have their race stamped on their voter registration cards out there?

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:38 PM

...yes Tweed, now that I look, I am listed as a M 5, IDT which means male - white, not of hispanic origin according to the "race codes!" And this in Leon county, which brags about no voting problems!

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:21 PM

So tonight as soon as the first precinct was recorded, everything showed up as a Republican vote

I knew Jeb's Raiders could rig any process ever devised, but this is the first time Ihave heard of them hacking the actual hardware.

Desperation?


A

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:27 PM

Sorry, they don't take to lesbians in Florida.

Remember Minute Maid Orange Juice?

Perhaps Rino will have better results in the more "democratic" north.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 07:52 AM

...still counting votes in (as Leno calls it):

Flori-DUH

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:20 AM

Nigel: Good point. Silly me, for not catching that! *G*

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: GUEST,Ceejay
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:47 AM

This would be all good fun if it weren't that Florida decided not only the last US Presidential election but also the de facto leadership of the western world. Its not really that funny or if it is, the joke is on us all, not just the Floridans. I am surprised that so few people seem anxious to take up the point about one's 'race' being recorded on ballot papers. Isn't that in breach of the US Constitution? Doesn't anyone care? If the 'war on terrorism' isn't to protect those freedoms that seemingly no one cares about, how much longer can we expect to retain those freedoms we still do care about? Or is the 'war' really about protecting the right of big business to make money regardless of the rights or the safety of 'ordinary people'?

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: GUEST,Greg F. (remote machine)
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:58 AM

The absolute BEST part about the touch-screen and other computer voting machines in this age of computer fraud by 12-year-old hackers is that they are so easy to rig! And there's no paper trail whatsoever or other way to verify what the vote actually was. Recount? WHAT recount?

Talk about a false sense of security! I'd go with the paper ballot & pencil.

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: curmudgeon
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:04 AM

The only "freedom" protected in the "war on terrorism" and the USA Scoundrel Act, is to reap enormous profits.

Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: DougR
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 04:16 PM

Troll: There you go again! Will you please stop confusing Michaelr with facts?!! Pacifica Radio? The end all know all network michaelr? That certainly would make it true then I suppose. Geeze.

The controversy down there is between two Democrats! If the Demos can't run their own primary, what else is there to say? Can't blame the Republicans.

Personally, I hope Janet Reno comes out on top if there is a recount. Jeb Bush will take her apart on her do nothing years as Attorney General.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Tweed
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:22 PM

Yer deluded DougR. Here drink this ice cold Budweiser and sit down on the porch. Me and Boberdz kin hep you wif this disfuncshunal thinkin' you got goin' on.

Now why eggzackly is it thet folks like you despise ennyone who wants to help folks who ain't got as much as you do? Come on now, get it all outta yer system, you'll feel a whole lot better.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:35 PM

Yeah, Dougie, whad Tweezer said. But befo youz get going come on over hear and get a big ol' Boberdz hug, there Beg Guy.

Thare, no doncha feel bedder. Now come on now and go 'head an spill yo gutz to us. Heck, wez ani't doin' nuthin no wyaz and wez got plentee of der Kleen X'z don't we Tweezer...

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Tweed
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:43 PM

Yep that's right Boberdz, an' ef we cain't do no gud, we'll git that feller that the P-Vine watches on Oprah to give our Doug a talk and a lissin to. We iz gonna hep you Dougie. As the great Hunter S. Thompson once sed..."We ain't like the others...we iz yer friends"
Dang it Boberdz...pass them eye wipes over here, I'm gettin' all weepy now. If we kin save this poor wretch from the publicanz we'll hav ar place in hebbin, an' thas a fack.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:27 PM

Ohhhh DougR -- you in DEEP doodoo now! LOL!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:04 PM

"everything showed up as a Republican vote, no matter what races people were voting for."

I didn't realize people were expected to vote for "races" and that Republican counts as a race.

Incidentally, they're working on getting rid of the pencil and paper system of voting in the UK, Gareth. Too old-fashioned, they say. Makes it too hard to fix the elctions, I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Blues=Life
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:06 PM

Democratic primary.

2 Democratic counties.

Democratic county election officials.

Republicans' fault.

Oh. Sure. Got it.

Blues

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:22 PM

Yo blues,

The Repubs have got the danged thing so screwed up from the 2000 election that it's gonna take them some time to unscrew it up.

How would you explain it?

Would you consent to Federal workers keepin' an eye on and running the elections in Florida in November and in '04?

I would.

And heckm I don't like Dems either, but I don't like cheaters either,,,

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:29 PM

...yes Kevin I thought it was "Viennesse lingerie" (or for the concrete minds...a Freudian slip as in "parapraxis") but that is what the newspaper reported she said!!!!!....hg in Flori-DUH

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:37 PM

I think it should have read. "No matter what races voters were voting in..."...at least that would make sense. People don't use ballots to vote for a race, even in Flroida!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:53 PM

Hi all

For the first time, Orange County (Orlando) had problems - but it appears to be totally the printer's fault - the company - a local one who's been printing ballots for 20 years forgot to add a perferation to many of the ballots that are bound together in pad form. The poll workers had to tear them off and some messed up the verification bar code, causing them to not work in the scantron machines.

oops...

What needs to happen is that either election day needs to be a school holiday (or moved to Saturday), voting places should be in schools and teachers should staff the polls. I was in charge in 1994 of both choosing poll sites and hireing & training over 1000 poll workers for Orange County. Most of the poll workers are elderly and we had to work very hard to teach them to understand how to use the simplest of computers (Scantron machines like those used to grade the SAT and other standardized tests). Most of the elderly workers had never used a computer - even an ATM. Hell, most of them couldn't fill out their own absentee ballot correctly.

I can't imagine the learning curve for these people in working the touch-screen computers.

________________________

That's being said, the voting practices in several counties are racist and Republican-biased.

But remember, regarding Florida "losing" Gore the election. He would not have needed to win Florida if only he had won his own HOME STATE!

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 12:00 AM

NOT abt Florida's incompetance, rather Florida's brash, unembarrassed, absolute crookedness. To hear Dubya mouthing abt American freedoms, when he & his cohorts undermine the mechanics by which the freedoms have practical meaning, like the florida vote & his buddies in congress about to let REALLY BIG corporations own ALL the media in given locations, thereby totally controlling what the people are told & rendering meaningless "free press," disgusts me. What a tragic farce.

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:22 AM

not just in Florida...

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: DougR
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 02:39 AM

Tweed, Bobert: I think you two are so intent on impressing everybody with your advanced English, you find it difficult to articulate your points (assuming there are some). :>)

Sounds to me as though you may have overlooked an excellent prospect for your new cabinet, Bobert. Tweed sound to me as though he would make a great Secretary of Education, or Chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities! The latter would not be a cabinet position, but perhaps, if you are successful in packing the House and the Senate with enough "fellow thinkers," you could persuade them to create a new cabinet position for Tweed!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Troll
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 03:38 AM

And, of course, NONE of the Florida counties are racist and Democratic biased, right Blackcatter?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Tweed
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 07:14 AM

Yer right on there, DougR. As de Education Secretary, the first thang I'd do is dump ol' Jeb's FCAT program , what seems to only be another worry fer every teacher, az Jeb and the fatcats seemz to think the teachers got more time on thar hands then iz healthy. See they got to teach the reglar textbook setup to the younguns and then somehow teach this FCAT horseshit to thar charges soze the kids kin try an' pass the FCAT test in order fer thar school to get a gud grade. If they fail this here FCAT an' suffer th' disgrace and guilt uv becomin' a "F" graded school why then he takes away thar budgit money a little more. Seemz like them schools would be the ones what needed a little more money fer teachers an' books and so forth, but I reckon he's of that "spare the rod and spoil the chile" philosophy and haz got off on sum kinda tangent in hiz thinkin'.
An' then I'd put a stop to funnelin' tax dollars to the Christian skooz. Them iz some nice folks but have some funny ideas about whut to teach young folks about the beginnin' of this world and tends to leave some fairly important things out. I think I'd also outlaw havin' the school chillen to go out an' sell stuff to get a liddle more money fer their school too. We got thet bigass lottery down here to give the schools money an if that don't do it, there ought to be some more taxes on the big business fellers, who stand to reap the mos' benefits from public education of the up and coming workforce.
Thar, you see? I wouldn't do to bad az sekeratariat uf Eddycashun;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 12:02 PM

Well, danged, Tweezer. There you go again tryin' to impress ol' Doud with your quick mind an' impressive inventory of wordinz... And futher mo, Iz had you penciled in as Secretary of der Blues, which is real importanz to der countree but after dis rathurd remarkable stan on der edgey-cation stuff den lookz like Dougir is rite.

An', ifinz my Wes Ginny slide rule is rite as Doug seemz to be, den, danged dat's twiced dat he be rite dis week, witch far az I can see ez progress fir the ol' boy...

An' we got der same problem here in dat der teachers ain't gettin paid to teach nobody to think no more, 'cauze see where thinkin' get you, don't cha. Bunch of luney-ticks scratchin' and carryin' on at der Catbox. Dats where. No. des days ets pass dis teat den pass dat one.

"Hey, Johnny, you back there thinking? Well, you look like you're thinking? I'm not going to take you to talk with Mr, Woorley, again, am I?"

"No, Miss Pendergrass, I promise I wasn't thinking. I just have a sore tooth that made me look like I was. I promise."

"Well, okay, Johnny, but I'm gonna have to have a note from your dentist tomorrow."

So, Tweezer, you got the job so you might as well start packin'. Well, it'll get ya' out a floorda and, heck, we can play bluez everynite...

Boberdz

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:41 PM

Maybe there's a Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy that set this all up on purpose to make the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy look bad, I don't know.

Again, I propose they settle the elections with a friendly game of Risk. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 06:58 PM

Heck, wouldn'y matter too much to me if they'd arm wrestle of flip a coin "cause its become evry much a one party system....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 07:15 PM

Doug -- it's no surprise to me that you would belittle the achievements of Pacifica Radio. Fact is, though, that they're one of the few independent news and opinion sources left in this country anymore. Sure they have an agenda, and a certain slant on issues, but it's a different slant from the corporate mass media. And that's a good thing. Would you want them silenced?

Democracy cannot function if critical views are suppressed. To form a balanced opinion, one must have information from all parts of the spectrum. I take in all available news, and then make up my own mind. BTW, you don't have to believe Pacifica on this one. The company in question, Choicepoint of Atlanta, was sued by the NAACP and, in the course of those proceedings, was forced to confess to doctoring the voter lists.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:53 PM

Michael,

Ya' know, Michael, what bugs me is that there is only one voice against thousands of voices blaring out the message of the ruling class. Used to be that PBS would step out of the circle but no more. Not since 9-11 and this administration. These folks are running like "pigs from a gun". Yeah, I use to like Diane Rheme but to listen to her today, one would think she was takin' in some kind of scifi chamber and had elewctrodes stuck in her head and reprogramed.

This is the scariest thing of all. As Bushcrofth tightens the noose on the truth, lots of folks are squirmin' to sound like they've always been part of the good-old-boy-right-wing network.

Yeah, so long live Pacifica. The last bastian of anything that remotely resembles what democracy used to be about...

Bobert