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BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:37 AM Quite agree, all you have to do in this country is play us at soccer (a horrible game) and watch the venom appear in the press. And god help you if you are the England Manager(Head Coach to our American cousind) and you loose!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Date: 10 Jan 03 - 05:00 PM You picked the baseball card! Yes, indeed - I very much enjoyed opening that, as no one ever gave me a baseball card before! :-) Maybe we thinks Orcses isn't so nassssty after all, then, preciousssss. Back on the subject of news, though... I said this on another thread... I think news agencies simply delight in getting people riled for one reason or another. It's all about the sensationalism. They print headlines that have little relevance to the stories, just to suck people in, and get some sort of gut/knee-jerk reaction. Until polls can poll every single living person in the world, they won't put forth any really important information. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Date: 10 Jan 03 - 02:28 PM Our beloved BBC could not poll its way out of a paper bag!! Frank there is no need for you to say sorry for those who obviously lack the guts to say who they are. Kim you would be welcome over here still, and I hope that you enjoyed recieving your baseball card I hand picked it:-) |
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Subject: Polling Geniuses? From: Matthias Date: 10 Jan 03 - 12:32 PM Although the BBC is one of the "most respected news organisations in the world," that's evidently not saying much. After reading the BBC World Service poll about "the world's favorite song" I now believe that the BBC ain't so great at polling. Matthias |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:47 AM When I went to Britain I didn't encounter any anti-American sentiments. If anything, my experience was just the opposite. Or maybe I've missed the point again. After all, it was 15 years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:04 AM Mudcatters, I feel the need to apologize to you all. I responded to those who call themselves "guests" without a real person's name attached. I don't believe they are really guests. I won't repeat this mistake. From now on, unless I know who I'm writing to, I won't respond. As I recall, this post was started by a "guest" and is corrupted by his/her (?) anonymity. Peace, Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:51 AM To the anonymous "guest". You are correct in saying that there are those of Middle-East background who are being detained by the government now but this is being widely debated in the media in this country. It would not be in debate in many countries of the world. We still have a free press and the ability to deseminate information without serious reprisals. After all, that's what we're doing here on Mudcat aren't we? This detention is an abberation that will be addressed and corrected when many Americans begin to value the power of the vote. Eventually the situation regarding the internment of Japanese by the government during the WW II was addressed by the media as well as the infamous McCarthy period which was uncloaked. There is no country in the world that is free from some sort of repression but fortunately built into our system of government, there is a mechanism whereby these deviations can be addressed and corrected. Stay tuned. Frank Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:17 PM The thing about the US though is that we still can agree to disagree without being arrested or persecuted by our own government Mmmm, really? I think many immigrant muslims would disagree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Date: 09 Jan 03 - 05:15 AM Yes we have heard about ww11, and the only reason that you joined was Japans attack on Pearl plus adolf declaring war on you so please leave that one out. I deal with Americans quite a lot and have know many over the years yes you have your faults but dont we all? All that i can say about Guest is he is a paranoic racist with a hatred of Brits, and cant understand that we actually like you yanks and wishes that it was not so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 Jan 03 - 04:28 AM I love the USA. I have trained with the National Guard in Kentucky and Rhode Island, where I earned US para wings that I wear with pride. WW2 has been thrust at us (Brits) in this thread as putting us in your debt. Well yes, but 1.Hitler was a threat to the world not just us. How about some credit for us standing alone for a year against him, thwarting his attempt to invade us, and defeating his German and Italian armies in Africa before you joined us. 2. You did not join us until they attacked you. The Martial Plan however puts us and all Europe deeply in your debt. PS Sadaam, like Hitler, is a threat to all. I am glad we are not hesitating to join you. Best wishes, Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 09 Jan 03 - 04:18 AM I think that you're talking about the English, and not the Scots, the welsh or the people of Northern Ireland. unlike you lot how are quite a bit away from them as Scots and Welsh live next door to them. And we can't stand them not as individals but as a nation |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:46 PM THEY'RE RIOTING IN AFRICA (THE MERRY MINUET) (Sheldon Harnick) Intro: There are days in my life when everything is dreary I grow pessimistic, sad and world weary. But when I'm tearful and fearfully upset I always sing this merry little minuet: They're rioting in Africa They're starving in Spain There's hurricanes in Florida And Texas needs rain. The whole world is festering With unhappy souls The French hate the Germans, The Germans hate the Poles Italians hate Yugoslavs South Africans hate the Dutch And I don't like anybody very much But we can be grateful And thankful and proud That man's been endowed With a mushroom shaped cloud And we know for certain That some happy day Someone will set the spark off And we will all be blown away They're rioting in Africa There's strife in Iran What nature doesn't do to us Will be done by our fellow man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:29 PM BTW, I love visiting Britain. I've been there 4 times. And I also know how loathed the British are in many places around the world, for the same reason that Americans are hated. We've replaced them in some places, but in others, in certain parts of Asia especially, the hatred for Brits still far outpaces hatred for Americans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:24 PM What is more in line with this thread, is to do a google search with this: "anti-Americanism in Britain" You will see that the media reports this as being a phenomenon mostly of the left, and a few on the right. However, if you keep searching, you can find plenty of statistics, polls, opinion pieces, etc. to show that anti-Americanism is one of the most socially acceptable cultural prejudices in Europe today. Now, as an American, I'm not shocked by that, and I do understand it politically. But the social prejudice is just hate and bigotry, dressed up in politically acceptable terms. Like telling an anti-American, obviously bigoted joke, and then excusing it by following it up with a statement about Bush. Heard it often when I was there. Another thing is, many Brits can't wait to tell visiting Americans how hated they are. Encountered this in the pubs, the B & Bs, everywhere. It is a deeply held cultural prejudice in Britain, and can't all be blamed on the 2000 election. This hatred of Americans in Britain has existed on the ground for as long as I can remember (my first trip to Britain was in the late 60s). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,another one Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:21 PM Who cares if some shithead in Britain hates Americans? No country is perfect, not even yours.As far as America helping Britain out in their terror, ever hear of WWII? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:47 PM McGrath, that is one stupid argument to try and put forward. Of those "over 17,000 posts" you cite, what percentage do you suppose are members with no cookies? Guests who sign their names at the bottom of their posts? But if you really want to know how specious of an argument you are making, try clicking on catspaw's name, and you'll find he has all the anon guests combined beat. 17,914 posts. You are so passive aggressive about the anon guest thing McGrath. It really is your Mudcat Achilles heel. Makes you look like an idiot, going on and on saying "ignore the people I'm telling you again and again and again to ignore". It's your choice to look the fool, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:41 PM Well, Catspaw has more, mostly 'hilarious' fart jokes recently, but that's by the by |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:38 PM And anybody who wonders why GUESTS (anon) tends to be regarded with distrust, just click on GUEST at the top of any post, and see what come up, over 17,000 posts (but they come in handy 200-at-a-time packages now). Not pleasant reading, some of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:37 PM I still like you, and that's all that counts. I once made a list of ten things that piss me off about America(ns) then tempered it with another list of ten things I really like about America(ns). When I repeated this process I very soon ran out of things that piss me off and could have continued with the good stuff for much much longer. Disney was on one side and the Bridgeport Brewpub was on the other. ;o) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:20 PM Of course it's flawed and stupid, Bill. It does however make a point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:17 PM .....and anyone who can't see the flaw in THAT needs help! anti-americanism IS an 'issue', nothing says that 2 illion votes are 'against America'.....Google fight...pshaw, says I. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 06:05 PM Time for a 'google fight' Why don't the results suprise me? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:59 PM OK McGrath, we get it now. You've said to our nameless faces twice in a row, that you are ignoring us. And as you can see, it really upsets us. The point I'm making isn't about individual Britsh citizens being anti-American. But I am stating my positions that anti-Americanism is rampant in Britain. Now, regardless of the personal inclinations of British Mudcatters, do they agree or disagree with that position? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:58 PM Gee, I'm sorry, could you be more specific about which point I totally missed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:56 PM and I'd have thought that you'd respect that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:54 PM That's right McGrath, it's a choice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:49 PM The BBC's heading: "How widespread is anti-Americanism?" would have been less likely to be taken as kicking sand in anybody's faces. I try to make a point of never responding directly to or acknowledging the existence of the Nameless. Maybe that's a bit unfair in some few cases, but after all, it is their choice to walk round wearing a paper bag over their head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:24 PM And the Nobel Prize for 'totally missing the point' is awarded to Kim C. The prize is a cylindrical hat with a D on the front. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bill D Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:20 PM well! *grin*....such a lot of posts since I had my little tantrum! "Weird look at BillD for reacting so violently to such a benign post." and yes, katlaughing had it right...I am tired of anonymous posts with loaded titles. As was said, the POLL may be benign, but the title itself was meant to stir up things and push buttons. Let me be clear about what upsets me: ...........There is NO good reason most anonymous postings, and when they are just political trolling, they are offensive BECAUSE they are anonymous. Unless someone states clearly and reasonnably why they MUST post using no identity whatsoever, I will continue to object! There are plenty of discussion going on between people here who are opinionated, but honest and open about who they are. Doug R and Conrad the #1 peasant, and gargoyle and many others ..including me, have controversial things to say, but when I answer them, I know that I am discussing it with someone who is not afraid to do more than leaving inflammatory posters nailed to the trees and doors! If someone has and interesting titbit to pass on from a news source, let them say so without the cutesy "you'll never know who said this, but I dare you to comment" crap! 98% of our members AND guests have identities, so we can carry on discussions like normal people. I'd LOVE to see a thread where everyone todssed their cookies and responded as 'guest' so that it would be clear just how awkward it is!...better yet, of course, would be if NO ONE ..as in NO ONE AT ALL responded when anonymous trolls happened....but I want a lot, don't I? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:17 PM The thing about the US though is that we still can agree to disagree without being arrested or persecuted by our own government Mmmm, really? I think many immigrant muslims would disagree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Kim C Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:16 PM I don't necessarily believe that the whole world hates the USA as much as I believe the media enjoys making us believe that the whole world hates the USA. Our own media included. I have travelled to Europe, and had a great time. People were nice to me everywhere I went, including Paris. Yes. People were nice to me in Paris. I was shocked because all my life I'd heard that the French hate us and are incredibly rude. That was not my experience at all. Sure, a couple of people giggled at my attempts to speak French, and some politely corrected my grammar. But they were all willing to try to communicate with me, even if it meant waving their arms around and making hand gestures, and in one case, drawings. I have no doubt that SOME people don't like us. But I don't think ALL, or even MOST, people are that way. If they were, we would not have so many visitors and immigrants in America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:04 PM I purposely didn't take the test. I believe that it's probably informative for some. I know there are those who hate us. America is a composite of many different views. Not everyone follows a specific party line and I think that most of the people that I've talked to do not think we will win any popularity contests in the rest of the world but at the same time, many overseas who criticize America might want to live here. Criticism is fine, though. It's an important part of our democracy. There is nothing sacrosanct about any country in the world. History can make a case for many flaws in every government. The thing about the US though is that we still can agree to disagree without being arrested or persecuted by our own government. I hope to God that this doesn't change. There are these facistic tendencies in every government including ours. Bush did not win by a landslide. He squeaked in through the Electoral College and an inept voting precedure in Florida. His views do not represent all of America by a long shot. It's my wish as an American that our country can take the lead in galvanizing the largest peace movement ever. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:41 PM Some readers may find Why do people hate America? of interest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: C-flat Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:10 PM You're right of course McGrath, I've been around here long enough to know better but I don't like this all-or-nothing generalising of opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:05 PM Never respond to a GUEST (anon). It's just not worth it. More times than not it's a wind-up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST,Pete Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:00 PM This thread is providing a fascinating insight into the American psyche. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: C-flat Date: 08 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM Guest, I think you have some sort of complex. My comments are true and sincere. If you choose to disbelieve them or try to "read between the lines" something that isn't there, I really can't help you out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:36 PM Let me now qualify what I said. I should have said "many Brits" rather than just "Brits". But c'mon you Brits, your nod and a wink claims of Brits not hating Americans isn't very...sincere, shall we say? At least some of us can read between those lines. Some of us have actually been to Britain, and read all about the anti-American crisis in the papers, you know. Which is what the BBC poll being discussed is all about, now isn't it? Now, I understand you not liking being sussed out, but there it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: stevetheORC Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:25 PM Who ever said that we Brits hate you Yanks? Other than a couple of minor tiffs a few hundred years ago we (Brits) have been one of your closest alies. We have stood by you when others have turned there backs on you, even when you have refused to support us we have been there for you. Just look at the reaction in this country after September the 11, have you ever given us so much support when we have been the target of terror? Please stop thinking that we all hate you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: C-flat Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM "I think the British are pathological in their hatred of Americans, and pretty damn irrational about it too."....Guest. Absolutely NOT true! I don't know anyone with a hatred of Americans. I know people who disagree with some of America's policies or find some American public figures hard to stomach, but no more than we find some of our own counties actions and leading lights difficult to bear. As has already been stated, this thread is NOT anti-American and I feel that some of the people responding to it haven't actually bothered to read the link. The "quiz" draws no conclusions other than to test your own general knowledge. For the record I scored 6. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:28 PM Declan, the problem is precisely with the ones who do that sort of censoring around here. It is happening now with an alarming frequency, especially with BS political threads. Which is precisely what every Mudcatter who supports the censorship has stated could never happen here. Unfortunately, the best and the brightest minds in Mudcat aren't the ones with the power to censor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:45 PM Problem with the Americans McGrath, and I speak as one, is that they don't perceive themselves as the empire. Honest to god, I think if you asked most Americans if we were an empire like the British empire that founded our nation, they would say absolutely not. They don't see us as the Big Bad Imperial Yankee Might. Now, please note, I am not suggesting that Americans, by and large, are consciously this blissfully ignorant of the facts. I am stating unequivocally that they are! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:40 PM I'm still puzzled why anybody should feel heated about this. It does seem to me that a lot of Americans seem to feel very surprised and indignant when they come across any implied criticism. I'd have thought that it goes with the territory, being the only surviving SuperPower, and that it's be expected and almost a matter of a kind of pride. That's how other big powers in their time, such as England or France seem to have taken it. Bridling indignantly at criticism is the kind of thing you get from small places - when someone says your town is a dump, that's the way you react. Maybe if a small country like Ireland, which is used to people saying nice things, suddenly found itself under attack, you might get that kind of reaction - "look at all the great stuff we do". Somehow it seems that, though America is so enormously powerful today, many Americans still seem to think of it as small and weak and needing to be defended from unfair attack. I'm reminded of something Chesterton once said about the universe, about how with only one universe it made just as much sense to think about it as being small as being big: "The fancy that the cosmos was not vast and void, but small and cosy...to God the stars might be only small and dear, like diamonds." So maybe if Americans think about America as being small and vulnerable and needing to be stoutly defended from the bullies who surround it, that isn't really arrogance, it's a kind of humility. And in the long run, of course, it's quite true that America's power and strength is merely a passing phase. As Kipling put it presciently, speaking about the then mighty British Empire - Far-call'd our navies melt away— On dune and headland sinks the fire— Lo, all our pomp of yesterday Is one with Nineveh and Tyre! Judge of the Nations, spare us yet, Lest we forget, lest we forget! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Wolfgang Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:21 PM I can only cite McGrath: What on earth is the problem? There is nothing anti-American in this quiz with the exception of a very unfortunate wording of the BBC's link. Insert any other nation as the target nation and you'll see that easily. Many questions are merely knowledge questions. And for the other questions, without any control data you even cannot be sure that the responses reveal any significant amount of anti-Americanism. Ask for instance whether Russia is seen with more approval than disapproval in six Moslem countries, and you may also find that only one country (though perhaps not Uzbekistan) has more responses in favour. Perhaps no country in this world of any significant size finds more people in many other countries being in favour of it. The data are completely irrelevant for the title question of this thread. But still, it is an interesting quiz. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Rustic Rebel Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:16 PM Kat, I vote every election. Bush still won. It's not if you vote, it's finding the right people to run. It feels like sometimes there just is not even a good choice,so people don't go to the polls at all. And when there is a good choice people are afraid their vote won't count so they don't vote them anyway, that's why we end up with what we have. OK back to the poll, I only had 4 right but I knew the first one was Russia. They want to keep US in good graces, being they are going to be the oil controllers of the future and they know the US will be depending on them then. Ha! Just a theory, maybe I talk a little BS there, maybe not. Peace, Rustic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Donuel Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:09 PM with only 1 right I feel out of touch |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Declan Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:07 PM Whoever closed off Wilco48's other thread with a similar title wasn't reading very carefully.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:56 AM As an American, I believe American citizens are just as much part of the problem as are the political, religious, and corporate leaders who run the global plutocracy from here, from London, from Bonn, from Brussels, from Paris, etc. Just like I believe European citizens are just as much part of the problem, and Japanese citizens, and the citizens of every other wealthy republic on the planet. To me, the most dangerous thing to think is that it is just the Americans who are responsible for negative impacts of globalization, the perpetuation and exacerbation of world poverty, and the militarization of the planet. It isn't just the Americans by a long shot. The ethical and moral drift caused by these current trends are also rooted in the ethical and moral drift of the citizenry of the wealthy (supposedly) democracies. Without the tacit support of the citizenry, the global plutocrats couldn't be getting away with all the corruption, exploitation, etc. Let us not forget, BBC is currently exploring their options for a merger with Disney. BNF has sold nuclear technology to lots of entities it should not have, that sort of thing. It seems to me the British like to point fingers at Americans as a means of absolving their own culpability in the mess that the Europeans and Americans have made of this world. Much more convenient to blame the other guy than change one's self, isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: CarolC Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:37 AM It must be lovely to live in a country that has an impartial news source, Bagpuss ;-) (I actually have no idea what that feels like. Free country indeed.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Alice Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:30 AM The media focuses on the controversial actions of US government and ignores the humanitarian actions of Americans: a few examples - The Carter Center Waging Peace, Fighting Disease, Building Hope (giving the tools to citizens of countries to implement their own solutions - Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter) NetAid (connects people and groups with organizations that are committed to ending extreme poverty around the world - Based in New York) Goodthings.com Based in Seattle, Washington, an internet guide. This is a guide to organizations building grassroots action for good works. Good Actions are stories of and from people and non-profits who are changing their corners of our world. Animals Arts & Culture (music stories you may find interesting) Community Environment & Sustainability Families & Children Health Human Rights Personal Passions Politics and Government Goodthings.com is looking for writers. If you are a writer and see the good works that Americans are doing, check it out. Alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who loathes the USA: A quiz from the BBC From: Bagpuss Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:28 AM CaroleC - I doubt very much the BBC was trying to drum up support for the war - it does try to stay impartial from the goverment (much to their annoyance at times). More likely they thought it was a bit of fun on an issue that has been around in the news over the last year or so. This whole thread has confirmed my prejudice that many Americans are very touchy at any sort of percieved criticism. A bit like people from Norfolk? |