BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve

Subject: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST,Liberal Conservative Democrat Republican
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 04:23 PM

Events in Baghdad disillusion — and relieve — Arabs elsewhere

A pretty fair-minded summary of Arab opinions around the U.S. Click on the Conflict With Iraq heading for more from the Seattle Times, a good source for news of all topics.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 06:04 PM

Yeah, LCDR, I've usually found the Seattle Times to be a pretty fair source. They often publish stuff that other papers and the TV won't touch.

Well, now we're at a delicate point in the Middle-East. We can gently nudge this in a good direction and prove that we really are interested in the welfare and future of an autonomous Iraqi people and the people of the Middle-East as a whole, or we can behave like a 500 pound gorilla and thoroughly screw it up. I guess we'll soon know. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 06:28 PM

my votes on the 500 pound guerrilla

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: DougR
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:54 AM

"The Seattle Times, a good source of news on most topics." From whose POV, poster?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST,Liberal Conservative Democrat Republican
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 02:39 AM

I'm not sure I understand your question, DougR. I thought both Don Firth and I indicated that they are fair minded in their coverage. Why don't you go there and judge for yourself? Seattle Times Editorial Page   Then you can report back here and either agree or disagree.

I never look for fights as some do here. I don't think the POV of either extreme amounts to much. I don't want newspapers or information sources that present only one side.   Unfortunately, some people are content with that. They refuse to read the other side because they are already convinced.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST,Liberal Conservative Democrat Republican
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:01 AM

I should have mentioned this page. The Next Generation

They say "We're paying 23 smart, savvy young adults to speak their minds."   

" Twenty-three high-school and college students and recent college graduates from around the Puget Sound discuss issues that affect them every day. They were selected from a pool of nearly 400 applicants and are diverse in interests, socio-economic status, ethnicity and political leaning. You can e-mail them at [e-mail] "

It's as if writing were like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get next. I like it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 06:42 AM

Fine article, thanks for posting.

And as Don said, what the USA does now and in the months to come has more relevance for that region and for the future danger of terrorism than what they did in the war. Contrary to what McGrath sometimes writes here, I think what the USA do during peace bears more relevance for terrorism than what they do in war.

The USA have shown that they do a quite good job in making war (if you like to look at warfare from a professional point of view only), let us hope they are at least half as good in making peace. That would be good for them but not only for them. That's why I care about that.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: DougR
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:22 AM

Yes, I agree. That is an excellent editorial on liberation.

Pardon my suspicion, Poster. So often statements similar to yours regarding impartiality of a news source is posted with a blue clicky, and the reference turns out to be a publication clearly slanted one way or the other.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:35 AM

This is not a good primer on "liberation" as you call it DougR.

This was a quick, cheap, sleazy war by any standard, because there was never any substantial military or civilian opposition to stop the Anglo American invasion. Iraq's military was decimated in the first Gulf War, and the civilian population, with a few exceptions, didn't require immediate pacification because so many had been terrorized by their leaders for decades. Choosing to "go to war" (this was no war, it was a fait accompli) against third world despots with no military to speak of, merely lulls Americans into the safe and cozy belief that this is what war really is. It isn't. Deposing a despotic regime militarily in three weeks time doesn't qualify as true liberation. I say, let's see what the occupation of Iraq by our military generals brings.

I share Wolfgang's concern for what the US does in peace time, as that is when the US' imperial "strategic self-interests" get furthered around the globe at the expense of the nations who have our "self-interests" under their sand, growing in their rainforests, etc etc.

And should the current fascist regime in Washington decide that Iraq was such a cakewalk, that while we are there we might as well take Iran and Syria too, well...then we'll be seeing the classic flaw of all imperialists--over reaching.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: mg
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 10:32 AM

deposing a despotic regime in 3 minutes could qualify as true liberation if people were truly liberated, which I hope that we all sincerely hope for them. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 10:54 AM

I hope for the liberation of all oppressed peoples in the world, Mary. But as you said, the jury is still out as to whether or not the military of the right wing extremist US government is capable of liberating Iraq, or whether, as in Afghanistan, the people will remain stuck in the same place they were before--a land of lawless tribal violence, with that violent and oppressive status quo being shamelessly exploited by the militry forces of foreign invaders and occupiers.

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 11:02 AM

Not only that, in Afghanistan they are dying of misplaced friendly fire!

Subject: RE: BS: Baghdad Events disillusion-and relieve
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 04:37 PM

it really is time they find new heroes other than dictators and terrorists.
the Arab/Iraqi community in Dearborn Michigan booed and jeered an AlJazeera reporter.
the problem is other than maybe Turkey theyve all been living in police states for years, so Al Jazeera was popular because it vented their rage and frustration, on the other hand it is just slanted the other way. As long as they keep blaming the west for their problems
they will not get around to fixing them.
Carter did the right thing by not supporting the Shah in 79,
and the people revolted, although what resulted was not a democracy
but an Islamic Dictatorship, but I had Iranian friends who said that the young people of Iran dont give a hoot about Islamic law but rather they look towards the freedom of the west. No one needs to go into Iran the change will come from within. The Iraqis however were so cowed by years of oppression that it was very unlikely they would have overthrown Hussein, (maybe after a few generations, but certainly not now.) It only took the fear of a handful of thugs in Basra and the small towns in the south to keep them in order.
Anyone who hasnt lived under such oppression, cant understand.
ONe Canadian Iraqi on last nights As it Happens (radio show) said his 15 year old cousin made an offthe cuff remark against the regime in a coffee shop one day, the next day he disappeared - a year later the police came and forced the mother to sign and pay a bill for his bullet.