Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)

Subject: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From:
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 02:59 PM

I have only been able to find one Digitized melody for this popular traditional round (a favorite, it seems, for girls' campsong books). Apparently, there are several melody variations. If anyone has any to offer, I would be grateful!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 08:51 PM

Jean Ritchie has put a melody to this little four-line round, with add-on verses, I think it is called the 'Peace' version. In the past others also added verses (ding-dong, love, love, etc., etc.), most not continuing the theme of the four lines.

The verse is supposed to be 17th century. It may be like "Ring Around the Rosie." which is 19th century, with one questionable version from the late 18th., but the fakelorists put great age to it.

Somewhere I got this, probably from the internet because it looks like a recent scribble, but I put it in my rhyme collection without the reference.

e d e lowb
e e f# g a f#
b a b g a b
b g e lowb

The commonest versions are:
Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Shall I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy (my) will,
Sire, at thy (my) will.

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Wil I ever see thee wed?
I marry that you may,
If thou wilt stay.

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Wilt thou never marry me?
Ah, marry that I will,
If thou but stay.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Guest, Jen
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 10:32 PM

There is a tune in Rise up Singing, not the one I learned at GS camp decades ago. We used to sing Rose in a round with another song, Ah Poor Bird (also in Rise Up Singing).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Jun 03 - 11:51 PM

Do you know these rounds?

Hey, ho nobody home
no meat, no drink, nor money have we none.
Yet are we still merry

or

Row, row, row, row
Row your boat to Jesus' side.
There forever to abide,
Lord, at thy side.

Well, the tune for Rose, Rose is about the same at these two.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 01:46 AM

I added crosslinks up top to other threads on this song, and to the Digital Tradition version (including tune). I think the DT version is closest to the one I learned when I was growing up.

Here's the version from the Rise Up Singing songbook, with a tune that isn't what I learned as a kid:

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose
Shall I e-ver see thee wed?
Aye, mar-ry, that thou wilt
If thou but stay

(same as lyrics in DT)

---

Click to play

---

Here's the version from Sol Weber's Rounds Galore which is closer to what I know:

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose
Shall I e-ver see thee wed?
I shall mar-ry at thy will sire
If thou but stay

---

Click to play

Subject: ADD: Peace Round (Jean Ritchie)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Jun 03 - 02:07 AM

I think this is exactly the tune I learned when I was young.

PEACE ROUND
(Jean Ritchie)

Oh, what a goodly thing
If the children of all men*
Could dwell together
In peace.


*or, "of the earth"

from Celebration of Life (Jean Ritchie, 1971)

---

Click to play

---

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 09:59 PM

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will sir, at thy will
Hey ho nobody home
Meat nor drink nor money have I none
Still, I will be veerry merry
Hey ho nobody home
Love Love Love Love
Children this is your call
Love thy neighbore as thy self for God loves all
Building bridges between our divisions
If I reach out to you will you reach out to me?
With all of our voices and all of our visions
Friends we can make such sweet harmony
Ah poor bird
Take thy flight
Fly above the sorrows of this dark night

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 10:03 PM

Isn't that a kind of a double negative in line six?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 03:12 AM

Capriole (also known as Steel Bunny) recorded a version of this on 'Sex & Drums & Sausage Rolls'.

Their version went:

Rose, rose, rose, rose,
When will we meet again?
When the nights are cold and lonely,
We shall meet again.

They also do the 'Hey ho, nobody at home' with it.

The rest of the tape is pretty spectacular too, especially 'When Celia was learning on the spinnett to play', which is a tender, touching and positively filthy (if you are so minded..... guilty as charged) Tudor canon.

LTS

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 01:10 PM

If the tape is available, how can I get it? Not listed in Google or Amazon, and Capriole seems to be mostly goats and cheese.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 05:25 PM

Will try and find an ISBN for you but it may only be available from the group themselves. Try looking for Hazel Absalome, she's the ringleader!

LTS

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 05:48 PM

Thanks, Liz

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Er
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 07:41 PM

Yea. We have to sing that song in choir, but we sing it like this:

Rose, rose, rose, rose
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will, sire
At thy will

Hey-ho, nobody home
Meat nor drink nor money have I none
Still I will be very merry
Hey-ho nobody home

Ah poor bird
Take thy flight
Fly above the sorrows of this dark night

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,erika
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 09:54 PM

Here are the lyrics I was taught

Rose Rose Rose Rose
Will I Ever See Thee Wed
I WIll Marry At Thy Will, Sire
At Thy Will

I WIll Not Be My Fathers Jack
and I Wont be my mothers jill
I WIll Be a fiddlers wife
and fiddle I Will

Oh poor bird
why art thou
flying in the shawdows
of this dark hour

hey ho nobody home
got no eat no drink, nor money have i none
still i will be merry
hey ho hey-e ho
hey ho hey-e ho

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 01:35 PM

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will, sire,
At thy will.

Ding, Dong, Ding, Dong.
Wedding bells on an April morn.
Carve your name on a moss covered stone,
A moss covered stone.

I have also heard these versions:

Hey, Ho, nobody home.
No meat, no drink, no money have I none.
Still, I will be very, very merry.
Hey, Ho, nobody home.

Ah, poor bird,
Take thy flight
Far above the sorrows of this sad night.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 04 - 01:43 PM

Rose (4x) is only the first four lines. All the rest are floaters, as noted before.
Any Randolph-Legman type parodies?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From:
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 01:23 PM

i have both versons plus more

hey ho nobody home
eat nor drink nor money
have i none
still i wil be verrry
very marry hey ho nobody home
then you repeat it 3 times and on the 4th
you say hey ho hummmm


and rose,rose,rose,rose
will i ever see thee wed
i will merry at thy will sire at thy will


and theres this one
ii ya maklaaa nana lay la ooo
ii ya maklaaa nana lay la ooo
oh oh oh oh ohh ohhhhhh
oh oh oh ohhhhhh

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: belter
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 03:05 PM

Try singing the quadradic equation to the same melody.

negative b
plus or minuse radical b squared
minuse 4 a c
all over 2 a

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,funky
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 06:01 AM

the lyrics i was taught recently were touted as being from mediaeval times and sung by a man to his beloved, who is dying of the plague (i think?!!), which is characterised by paleness... his beseeching "shall i ever see thee red" apparently referred to her regaining colour and therefore health... the lyrics i learnt were as follows, and is sung very mournfully:

rose, rose, rose, rose
shall i ever see thee red?
when shall i marry thee?
when thou art dead

so who knows where my version originated?!! *shrug*

cheers,
funky

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 05 - 01:01 PM

Funky, the last line is absent from all the older versions. The "older" versions are all 20th c., and unless some documentation can be put forth, likely yours is as well.

Here is one actually about a rose (flower). The original?. Perhaps out of a flower book or catalogue:

Rose, rose, rose, rose,
Shall I ever see thee red?
Aye, marry, that thou wilt,
If thou but stay.

With music, p. 159, Janet E. Tobitt, 1946, "The Ditty Bag," NY.
(Posted before? Several threads; I didn't check them all.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Madame Passereau
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:05 PM

I have also heard a verse that goes:

Mother, Father, dig my grave
Dig it with a golden spade
Bring some friends and a mourning dove
To show I died for love

When we learned the other verses at camp, they wouldn't let us sing this one because they thought it was too morbid for the littler kids. It's one of my favorites, though.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 07:26 PM

Guest Q: You have it backwards in your post (#2, above. The melody to "Rose, Rose," is traditional; the "Peace Round" words are what I wrote, setting them to an adaptation (very nearly the same)of the old tune. I used the low note which ends the old tune to sing the first word of my poem, "O"(followed by "what a goodly thing..." etc.)

As I wrote before, in another "Rose, Rose" thread, we sang the words to the old round thusly:

Rose, rose, rose, rose,
Shall I ever see thee red?
Aye, marry, that thou wilt
If thou but stay.

A simple question posed to a rosebud slow to open- nothing to do with pale dying maidens as far as I know.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Feb 05 - 08:19 PM

I wrote that it was a little four-line verse. I thought I was crediting the "Peace" rhymes to you as well as the melody, but I apparently did not make myself clear. Sorry if my post was confusing.

The tune has to be called 'traditional'; all of them, I guess, since there are several I have heard used and no one has claimed them.
The Mudcat midis have two. Is the tune used by you the same as one of these? Like "Barges," neither tune nor rhyme seems to be found in anything older than the scouts and kids songbooks; everything else seems to be speculation. Have you found an older source?

Kytrad, I not only read your post about the rosebud, but I agreed in the next posting. So much for my memory!! And only six months ago- too many threads for me to absorb at my age.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Lolita
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 08:58 PM

When I was at a Girl Scout camp a while back we learned the song (along with sign language for it) and ours went like this:

rose, rose, rose, rose
will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will sire
at thy will

ding dong, ding dong
wedding bells on an april morn
carve thy name on a moss covered stone
on a moss covered stone...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Kim
Date: 19 Apr 05 - 06:07 PM

Ok, I learned this song at camp and I have no Idea if it's true or not but I learned that it was about the war of the roses. That's why there's the line will I ever see thee red. The verses I was taught were.

Rose Rose Rose Rose
Will I ever see thee red
I will marry at thy will sire
At thy will

Ding dong ding dong
Wedding bells on an April morn
Carve your name on a moss covered stone
On a moss covered stone

Love love love love
Gospel is the word of love
Love thy neighbor as thy brother
Love love love

Ah poor bird
Take thy flight
High above the sorrows
Of this poor night (or knight, I never was completely sure)

I hope this is of some help.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Jen :)
Date: 29 Jun 05 - 07:21 PM

Is there a code to post this song on a site or something like that? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jun 05 - 08:54 AM

Jen -0 I don't understand your question.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Kay
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 07:41 PM

http://www.chivalry.com/cantaria/lyrics/peaceround.html

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 05 - 08:12 PM

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Don't never say dese and dose.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 02:39 AM

Found this by googling some of the lyrics and thought I'd add the lyrics I learned, since they're a bit different from anyone else's.

I learned this from a friend who learned it at her church camp in middle school.

Rose rose rose red
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will sire,
at thy will

Oh poor bird
where art thou?
Lying in the shadows
of this old house

Probably just a mishearing of the more common lines "flying in the shadows" and the like.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Cyparissa
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:39 AM

QUOTE:
From: GUEST,Madame Passereau - PM
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 06:05 PM

I have also heard a verse that goes:

Mother, Father, dig my grave
Dig it with a golden spade
Bring some friends and a mourning dove
To show I died for love

***

That sounds like a version of Turtledove-

"Go dig my grave both wide and deep
Put a marble stone at my head and feet
In the middle of my grave put a turtledove
To show to the world that I died for love."

That particular version is sung by Custer LaRue- great song, by the way.

Also, does anyone know where I might find written music for "Rose, Rose?" It sounds beautiful, and I just love the words.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: MMario
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:48 AM

Rose,Rose at 'Yet another digital Tradition - a site that displays the tunes of the Digital Tradition as sheet music.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Din
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 07:27 PM

I learned it a different way:

"Rose, rose, rose, red
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will
At thy will

Ding dong, ding dong
Wedding bells on an April morn'
Carve thy name in a moss covered stone,
Moss covered stone

Peace, peace, peace, peace
Wars will end and wars will begin
I will never fight again
Never again.."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,girl scout
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 11:15 PM

We sing this as a camp song-
Rose, rose, rose, rose
will i ever see thy wed
i will marry at thy will, sire, at thy will
rose, rose, rose, rose

then we also sing it-
hey ho, anybody home
meat and drink and money have i none
still i will be very merry
hey ho, anybody home

but not as one song.. just to the same tune.. the first one is depredding to some of our troop.. yes im a 15 yr old girl scout.. so sue me

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,ImaginaryAngel
Date: 04 Jun 06 - 11:51 PM

Rose, rose, rose red,
Shall I ever see thee wed?
Aye, marry; that thou will, sire -
When I am dead.

Can anyone somehow convey to me how the "ah, poor bird" verse works and to what tune? It seems too short for the same tune as Rose Red.
Thank you!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 01:46 AM

The tune for "Ah, Poor Bird" is not the same as for "Rose, Rose..." and that's why it doesn't seem to scan; it harmonizes well when they're sung simultaneously.

Here it is in abc notation. (More info on that here, but in short, the letters are the notes you'd expect. Capital letters for the octave from middle C, small letters above middle C. In this case, it's based on an 1/8th note, so "D2" is a quarter note D, "F4" is a half note F, "dd" is two eighth note high d's, etc.)

X:1
T:Ah Poor Bird
C:trad.
N:round (compatible with Joan, Joan/Rose, Rose)
Q:1/4=110
V:1
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Dm
D2 E2 F4 |F2 G2 A4 |GA dd cd AA |G F2 E2 D3 |]

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 03:31 PM

I have always heard

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose
Will I ever see thee wed
I will marry will sire
At thy will

Ding Dong ding Dong
Wedding bells on an april morning
Carve thy words on a moss covered stone
On a moss covered stone

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 04:38 PM

Rose, rose, rose, rose
Flows the blood as you are bled.
Basted o'er with rosemary
Roasted rare you will be.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 09:09 PM

Where's THAT one from, Q??

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:03 AM

Written in pencil in a Better Homes and Gardens Meat Cookbook I got at a book sale.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 12:05 AM

That's wonderful!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 08:14 AM

scanscions a bit off, but I like it!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:46 PM

i learned it as this at my girl scout camp basically just felt like seeing if i could remember it all:
Rose,Rose,Rose,Rose
Will i ever see thee wed,
I will marry at thy will sire
at thy will
Hey ho nobody home
meat nor drink nor money have i none
still i will be merry merry merry
hey ho nobody home
ah poor bird take thy flight
high above the sorrows of this cold dark night
the wind in the willows
sighing like a solitary soul alone
the wind in the willows
sighing like a solitary sould alone

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 11:22 AM

I've only ever heard the version that goes:
Rose, rose, rose, rose
Shall i ever see thee wed?
Aye, marry, that i will
When thou art dead.

Framed as conversation between a spinster and her ailing parent.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:06 PM

My acting teacher of a few years ago taught my class this version:

Rose, rose, rose, rose
Shall I ever see thee wed?
I marry that thou shalt
When thou art dead.

Hey, ho, nobody home
Bread nor meat nor money have I none
Still I will I will be merry

Ah, poor bird,
Take thy flight
Far above the sorrows of this sad night.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Stormi Night
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:11 PM

i learned this song a couple os years back form a counsoler named Whispher, and i have never forgotten it, it was at a Girl Scout camp....

Rose rose rose rose
shall i ever see thy wed
i shall marry at thy will sire
at thy will

ding dong ding dong
wedding bells on a september morn.
carve thy name on a moss covered stone
on a moss covered stone

love love love love
the gospel of the world is love
love thy neighbor as thy brother
love love love

peace peace peace peace
wars shall and wars shall cease
we must learn to live together
peace peace peace

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Danielle
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 11:59 PM

The version I learned in girl scouts went like this:

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose
Will I ever see thee wed?
I shall marry thee at thy will, sire
At thy will

Ding, dong, ding, dong
Wedding bells on an April morn
Carve your name in a moss covered stone
Moss covered stone

Hey, ho nomebody home
No meat, nor drink, nor money have I none
Still I will be verry merry
Love,love,love,love,
Love,looove,love

(the second "love" in the bottom line last as long as two normal "love"s when sung)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Simple Tom
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:35 PM

I ran into this site by searching for the "hey ho" part of the song which my parents sang to me as a child. I recently rediscovered that fragment of the song in Peter Paul and Mary's song entitled "A'Soalin'" (from their "Moving" album).

Lyrics and chords can be found here:
http://members.cox.net/billandleann/a-soalin.htm

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,Amanda
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 04:23 PM

Were Doing This Song In Chorus. Its Pretty Awsome I Love The Melody.

Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose,
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will, sire,
At thy will.

Ding, Dong, Ding, Dong.
Wedding bells on an April morn.
Carve your name on a moss covered stone,
A moss covered stone.

Ah poor bird
Take thy flight
High above the sorrows
Of this poor night.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose (Traditional)
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM

I learned this song at GS camp, even though we're not allowed to sing it anymore because it refrences death and all that good stuff. I was also told that it was originally a song about a woman named Rose that was being forced to marry someone she wasn't in love with, so she killed herself. Nobody here seems to have quite all the verses I know in the same message, so I thought I'd put them all into one...

Rose, rose, rose, rose
Will I ever see thee wed?
I will marry at thy will, sire
At thy will

Hey, ho, nobody's home
Eat nor sleep nor money have I none
Still I will be married
Hey, ho, nobody's home

Ding dong, ding dong
Wedding bells on an April morn
Carve your name on a moss covered stone
On a moss covered stone

Mother, Father dig my grave
Dig my grave with a golden spade
Bring my friends and a turtledove
To show I died for love


The verse "Ah poor bird, take thy flight, high above the sorrows of this dark night" is a descant that can be sung with any of the verses, but we usually sing it with the third one.