|
Subject: Help: rose rose rose rose.... From: ander@nwonline.com Date: 24 Aug 99 - 10:09 PM I have this round in my head that I learned on vacation in Pennsylvania last week. The people who taught it to me said there are lots of verses, but only taught me two. Unfortunately there is only one verse in the database here. If you know more, please mail them to me. The two I know:
Will I ever see thee wed I will marry at thy will sire At thy will Ding dong sing dong Wedding bells on the chapel chime Carve your name on a moss-covered stone On a moss-covered stone ander@nwonline.com |
|
Subject: RE: Help: rose rose rose rose.... From: alison Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:19 AM I'm sure it's in the database and we did have a thread on it in the past. I'll see if I can find it, if no one beats me to it. Slainte alison |
|
Subject: RE: Help: rose rose rose rose.... From: alison Date: 25 Aug 99 - 02:24 AM Here you go, Tune and words in the database slainte alison |
|
Subject: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,val_org@hotmail.com Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:16 PM I was able to find the Lyrics for the Rose Round easily enough, but no information on its origin. I'm trying to learn more about the "Rose" round, and also the other little songs often sung with it as a round: Ah Poor Bird Hey Ho Nobody Home Peace Round Rolling of the Stones etc. Thanks! C.L.W. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: MMario Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:27 PM hope you find something. I don't think I have ever seen much on these besides the lyrics themselves. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie) Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM "Hey Ho, Nobody Home," has the same tune(speeded up) as "Rose, Rose." "The Peace Round" lyrics were written by Jean Ritchie. Melody is an adaptation of the "Rose, Rose" tune. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: MMario Date: 17 Dec 02 - 04:42 PM can't ask for much more believable information then that! |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:55 AM "Rose (round)" reminds me of one sung at a scout campfire in Holland, circa 1970 which was, I believe, German. "Rosen fra Feun" (X3) which was sung as a round. Hopefully someone will correct the spelling. (Wilfeid?) Nigel |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 18 Dec 02 - 11:01 AM Sorry: another spelling error, "Wilfried" ! Nigel |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: KateG Date: 18 Dec 02 - 11:06 AM The "Rose" round and "Hey, Ho, Nobody Home" sound great sung together. But I know nothing about the origins of either one -- learned 'em both as a Girl Scout decades ago. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Pied Piper Date: 18 Dec 02 - 11:38 AM I have some words set to this lovely round that I got from some Thesps who used it in workshops as a warm up exercise. Rose Rose Rose Rose Shall I ever see thee red? I brother that thou shalt When I am dead This rhymes and scans better than the above but I can't vouch for its origin. I was told that it referred to the Wars of the roses but the language and the tune have a more Elizabethan flavour to my mind. All the best PP |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,val_org@hotmail.com Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:16 AM While I'm still no closer to knowing anything definite about the history and origins of the round Rose, I have turned up many verses to the tune, as well as several related parts sung to differing tunes. While I see no evidence that they were actually sung to the "Rose" tune, the Bedlam Bards have recorded two Middle English verses (shown below) which fit the tune both metrically and in terms of subject matter. So, I'll keep looking for more on the history and origins... "Rose, Rose" tune ================= 1. Rose Variant A (learned as a Girl Scout) Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Will I ever see thee wed? I will marry at they will, sire, At thy will. 2. Rose Variant B (two related verses) Rose, Rose, Rose Red, Will I ever see thee wed? I will marry at thy will, sire. At thy will. Rose, Rose, Rose White, Will you be my love tonight? I'll lay with thee at thy will, sire. At thy will. 3. Rose Variant C Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Wilt thou ever marry me? Ah yes sir, that I may - If thou will but stay. 3. All Night by the Rose in Middle English (with translation) (after 1300) (MS Rawlinson D. 913) Al nyght by the rose, rose, Al nyght by the rose I lay. Durste I noght the rose stele; And yet I bar the flour awey. All night by the rose, rose, All night by the rose I lay. Dared I not the rose to steal And yet I bore the flower away. 4. I am Rose in Middle English (with translation) (Camb. Univ. MS. Hh.6.11) I am Rose, wo is me, Sutere þat i suete þe; I wacs þat weylawey, cherles hand me þristet ay. I am Rose, woe is me. Sweeter than the sweet I be. I wax in grief and misery: A churlish hand has pluck-ed me. 5. "Bells" verses Ding dong, ding dong Wedding bells on an April morn Carve my name on a moss covered stone, On a moss covered stone. Ding dong, ding dong Funeral bells on a September morn, Rose, oh Rose, is dead and gone sire, Dead and gone. 6. Peace Round by Jeane Ritchie Oh, what a goodly thing If the children of the earth Could dwell together In peace. 7. I won't be my mother's Jack, And I won't be my father's Jill. I will be a fiddler's wife And fiddle, as I will. 8. The Gospel is Love (another verse learned as a Girl Scout) Love, love, love, love, The gospel in this world is love. Love thy neighbor as they brother, Love, love, love. Other tunes =========== 1. Hey ho Hey, ho, nobody's home Meat nor drink nor money have I none Still I will be very, very merry Hey, ho, nobody's home. 2. Ah Poor Bird Ah poor bird Take thy flight High above the sorrows Of this sad night 3. Hawthorne Tree (Middle English with translation, to "Ah Poor Bird" tune) Evere kynd af tre, Swa evere kynd af tre, The hawþorn groweþ sworte Swa evere kynd af tre. Me leman she schal be, Me leman she schal be, Þe faerest af evere kynd, Me leman she schal be. Every kind of tree, Of every kind of tree, The hawthorne is the sweetest Of every kind of tree. My lady she shall be, My lady she shall be, The fairest of every kin, My lady she shall be. 4. Thirty Days hath November (Middle English) Thirti dayes hath nouembir, April, iune, and septembir; Of tuenti-eighte hath but oon, And all the remenaunt thirti and oon. Thirty days has November, April, June and September; Of twenty-eight there is but one, And all the remnant have thirty-one. In addition to all of these, we've found that Rolling of the Stones can be sung with the various verses above as well. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Liz the Squeak Date: 23 Dec 02 - 08:46 PM Capriole (also known as Steel Bunny) do great versions of Rose, Rose, and one of the others. LTS |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Mark Date: 12 Apr 04 - 06:27 AM For my acting society it has been a tradition for many years, I am told, to sing this song before any performance as a sort of meditation/enthusiasm-building exercise. Here are the lyrics we use: Rose, rose, rose, red Shall I ever see thee wed? I marry that thou shalt When thou art dead. I've spent ages pondering the possible meanings of this set of lyrics but there are quite a few possible ones (especially if you exchange the word "I" for "Aye") It seems that this more rhyming version is, then, more common in acting groups as mentioned by "Pied Piper" above. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Iyoki Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:06 AM I was told many years ago when I went to Camp Namanu back in the 1960's that this was about a woman of the house of York (of the White rose), who loved a man of the house of Lancaster (of the red Rose). After learning about the War of the Roses, and then the Henry VII (of the Tudor's - that is the house of Lancaster) he marrying (name has slipped my mind), who was of the house of York the Rose was made into the Tudor Rose. The natural minor fits the period, but I am still looking for more information. Has anyone looked into its English history in the United Kingdom? |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:42 PM Iyoki, if you go through all of the threads linked above, many versions and much speculation will be found, including your suggestion. The truth is that no one has found the four-liner in print in any form before the 20th century- UK or wherever. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Emily Date: 22 Dec 06 - 06:42 PM Hello my name is Emily and i am 10 and in 5th grade.In my chourus we sung Ah Poor Bird for a warm up song and it go's like this: Ah Poor Bird Take Thy Flight High Above The Sorrows Of This Sad Night Hey Ho Anyone home Me No Drink No Money Have Not Yet Will I Be Merry Hey Ho Anyone Home Merry Christmas everyone and a Happy New Year! |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Dec 06 - 07:51 PM Hey, haven't heard that one before. And a happy Christmas and a merry New Year to you! |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: oldhippie Date: 22 Dec 06 - 11:25 PM We sing this 'Rose' round: I know this rose will open I know my fear will burn away I know my soul will unfurl its wings I know this rose will open Words & music: Mary E. Grigolia |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Tannywheeler Date: 23 Dec 06 - 07:34 PM I remember we learned the "Rose Rose" words from Jean Ritchie, God bless her, and the "Hey, ho, nobody home" words from someone else--Pete S. maybe? Back in the late 1940s/early '50s. Since I was born in 1943 I wasn't up to asking where they got the songs from. I just loved the sound of their voices and singing what they taught. Tw |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Liza Mae Date: 11 Apr 07 - 11:24 AM I didn't see this verse up there, but I learned it with a few of the other versions at camp once: Mother, Father, dig my grave Dig it with a golden spade Tell my friends I died for love I die for love |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,guest Date: 05 Jul 07 - 07:49 PM In high school a good friend taught me this version, she was in a large Irish family (12 kids) and they all sang very well, she learned it from her father, who learned it from his father.... you get the picture..... Rose Rose Rose Red Shall I ever see thee wed I will marry at thy will sire At thy will sire Ding Ding Ding Dong Wedding bells on an April morn Carve thy name on a rose colored stone dear Rose colored stone dear Hey Ho Nobody home Meat nor drink nor money have I none Still I will be married Hey ho nobody home A poor bird Take thy flight High Above the sorrow Of this dark night |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST Date: 13 Jan 08 - 08:57 PM At girl scouts I learned a story that told what the song was about, it might help you w/ the origins. It's kinda long though.... Rose awas a girl whose mother had died when she was very young. Rose lived w/ her father. She had a brave and handsome cousin who was her age. They fell deeply in love and were secretly engaged. However, before they married, both her cousin and her father went off to fight in the Crusades (it could easily have been a different war, though) and Rose went to live with a greedy uncle. During the course of the war, Rose's father was killed and her cousin was mortally wounded, making Rose's uncle her gaurdian. When she learned of the death of her fiancee, Rose's heart was completely broken. Her uncle decided to marry Rose to an old rich man so that he would have access to the money. Rose tried to refuse to obey her uncle but finally she agreed. After she was married, Rose continued to pine for her lost love and father. She was ill-treated by her husband and eventually died from a broken heart. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,ridl Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:35 PM I've heard that the tune is one of the oldest known. I learned it starting with the "rose" verse, then "wedding bells" then "hey ho", then mother father dig my grave dig my grave with a golden spade then release a mourning dove to say I died for love then "oh sweet bird" which I think give then song a nice narrative, regardless of the accuracy. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Adelaide Date: 11 Apr 08 - 01:51 PM I have never seen anyone actually establish any of the "rose" rounds with much authority or antiquity (I learned them in Girl Scouts, too). The melody and lyrics for "Hey ho, nobody at home" appears in Ravenscroft's Pammelia (1609), no. 85, but the last bit is not the modern familiar one: Hey ho, Nobody at home Meate nor drinke nor Money haue I none, Fill the pot Eadie It's marked for 5 voices; the melody sung nowadays makes six parts. How and at what point somebody decided to turn a snappy drinking song into a dirge I haven't found. There is a catch in Apollonian Harmony (ca. 1790) called "Ding dong boam bell" all about funeral bells that has some melodic similarity. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,fisher Date: 24 May 08 - 03:40 PM i know a really different version from camp Rose rose rose rose Will I ever see thy wed I will marry thy at will sire rose (x4) church bells ring on an April's morn carve your name on a moss covered stone treat thy neighbor as thy brother Ding dong(x4) america, america shall i tell you how i feel? you have given us our riches and we love you so rose (x4) Dib=ng dong (x4)America (x4) Rose (x4) rose (just once) |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,skruffyjew Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:52 PM First of all i have been looking for tha lyrics for almost 20 yrs., but second of all i remeber it being rose rose will i ever see thy rose will i ever see thy wed rose rose rose rose rose rose |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Red Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Paddy Date: 26 Mar 09 - 11:46 AM We sing Red Rose as a round, it is (supposedly) about the war of the roses, possibly about two lovers, but may also be talking of peace between the house of York and Lancaster. (not Lancashire) The two roses were mereged to create the Tudor rose. Red rose white roses shall I ever see thee wed, aye marry that I will if thou but stay. |
|
Subject: Rose Rose Rose Rose round From: GUEST,Jiggers Date: 18 Jul 09 - 09:49 PM Hi, does anyone know the right words to this beautiful round(if there is a right - prob not ) . Would like to settle on a version. Interested in opinions ! I have (from various sources) : Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose Will I ever see thee wed I marry that thou will (mudcat -wilt) When thou art dead/wed. (mudcat -if thou but stay) There's some confusion in the last line Mudcat says : Rose, rose, rose, rose Shall I ever see thee wed* Aye, marry, that thou wilt If thou but stay. * or "red" |
|
Subject: RE: Rose Rose Rose Rose round From: Melissa Date: 18 Jul 09 - 09:57 PM Hi Jiggers, The last line I learned was different from either of those! Somebody will surely come along with a good, strong opinion for you. Did you browse the old threads and see the variations? M |
|
Subject: RE: Rose Rose Rose Rose round From: GUEST,Jiggers Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:02 PM I have to admit I did not (yikes am I in trouble ? ) - will have a look :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Rose Rose Rose Rose round From: GUEST,Jiggers Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:04 PM aha - that's because there are no threads ! (saved) Jiggers |
|
Subject: RE: Rose Rose Rose Rose round From: Melissa Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:06 PM ha..you're not in very bad trouble! use the search box thingy and put in rose, rose that ought to bring a bunch up for you.. |
|
Subject: RE: Rose Rose Rose Rose round From: Melissa Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:08 PM or, you could copy/paste this: http://www.mudcat.org/@NewSSResults.cfm have fun! |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:19 PM Good try, Melissa, but it's not quite that easy to post a link to a search. Too bad there's not an easy way. I moved the request from Jiggers over to an existing thread. As you can see, there are a lot of variations - and many of them just don't quite work. This is the tesxt from Sol Weber's Rounds Galore (p. 117): ROSE, ROSE Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose. Shall I ever see thee wed? I shall marry at thy will, sire, If thou but stay. Can't say it's my favorite version, but Sol is the authority on rounds. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Melissa Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:26 PM Joe, Are you saying the thing I posted wouldn't have opened to the search/list page if it was copied into the bar? Sorry, Jiggers..I was trying to be helpful. I imagine you've found plenty of reading with this thread and whatever you've found by searching! |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Jiggers Date: 18 Jul 09 - 10:47 PM Thanks, perfect, sorry I couldn't find the thread. Its a debater and there is no answer. Just wanted to get the other variations. I have to say that Mudcat has always come up with the goods for me. I rely on it. I have never been let down. Some requests have taken years to answer but they do get answered amazingly. Whoever(s) are at the bottom of this deserve a big snog/hug/pay-rise/2nd life ! I certainly recognise Joe's name from a way back and there was a Wolfgang that always helped too. I love you all. This is a most amazing service. Jiggers |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:13 PM Thanks for the kind words, Jiggers. This is what we love to do, but it's nice to hear words of appreciation nonetheless. Melissa, posting a link to a search is a tricky business. To do this search for Child Ballads: (click here to search). Here's the code: <a href="http://supersearch.mudcat.org/@NewSSResults.cfm?query=child_#">(click here to search)</a> So, you were part right, but you didn't include the search perameters (which I put in red in the example). But searching for Rose, Rose is a bear, any way you look at it. The punctuation varies so widely. I search for see thee wed instead. -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Melissa Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:18 PM Thanks, Joe I don't fully understand what you're saying I did wrong..so I'll just not do it at all anymore. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Jiggers Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:28 PM Search engines are hard. I work in the s/w industry and parsing input is a pain so I know the troubles it brings. The good thing is that I still get an answer whatever which is what is soooo good. In my list of things which are good in life I put Mudcat as #1 I'm sure I'll request many more lyrics unless I start writing my own - in which case I'll joyfully post them. Thanks again - and Mudcat transcends words of gratitude so I will abstain from using mere language and instead I will just sit here in joyful mode. Thanks again, Jiggers |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Melissa Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:30 PM I agree, Jiggers..it's an amazing place. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Jul 09 - 11:45 PM I looked in four rounds books, and the only one that had "Rose, Rose" was Sol Weber's Rounds Galore. The version that's in the Digital Tradition is also in the Rise Up Singing songbook, which has a very nice Rounds section:
Shall I ever see thee wed Aye, marry, that thou wilt If thou but stay.^^^ -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Jiggers Date: 19 Jul 09 - 12:20 AM Noooooo - its not dis-interesting if you know a beautiful girl called Rose and as it happens, roses are lovely. Its not a common round here and isn't it great that its not set in stone. I love the ending options, can change it every time for fun. Jiggers |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,SJ Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:21 PM Thanks for all the info on this round. My mom used it as a lullaby, and this evening, I thought to sing it to my child. Her name happens to be Rose. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,GUEST, Jamie Date: 21 Nov 09 - 12:54 AM Not that it is very old history, but at Peaceful Valley Scout Ranch, in Colorado, a boy scouts facility, the staff sing a round of "Rose/ Love/ America" to close campfires: Rose rose rose rose Shall I ever see thee wed? I will marry at thy will, sir At thy will Love love love love Love is the gospel of the world Love thy neighbor as thy brother Love love love America America How can I tell you how I feel You have given me many treasures I love you so Each verse is sung through in that order, and then the group breaks into 3 parts, and the last line of the last verse, "I love you so" is sung by all in the 3rd time through the round. I introduced a 'Peace' verse a few years ago, from a girl scouts' songbook, but it hasn't caught on. Peace Peace Peace Peace Wars will come and wars will cease We must learn to live with each other Peace peace peace I've no idea where this verse came from, though it obviously stems from the one mentioned above. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Grete. Date: 07 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM At Kentwell Hall in Suffolk we often sang 'Rose, Rose' as a round, believing it to be Tudor. "Ah Sweet Bird" was supposed to have been written for Anne Boleyn on the eve of her execution. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST Date: 27 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM When I was a child we sang a Baha'i variant: World, world, world, world Why do you reject your Lord? When will you receive your savior Bahaullah? As an adult I heard: Rose x4 When shall I see thee wed? I shall we'd at thy bid, sire At thy bid. And then there was a verse about the wind which I no longer Remember but would love to rediscover! |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,Anne Date: 13 Sep 19 - 11:13 PM I once sang this to my cousins after learning it at girls camp and they exclaimed, "We sing that song at church! But those words (about Rose and getting married) are very strange." I never asked what their words were, but they were members of the Church of Christ (Campbelites), where they refrain from any musical instruments. I wonder what the tune name is, and whether their church adapted it after hearing the lovely tune, or whether the religious text (whatever it is) came first. |
|
Subject: RE: Origins: Rose, Rose, Rose (Round) From: GUEST,LB Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:32 PM Printed in "The catch club, or, Merry companions: being a choice collection of the most diverting catches for three and four voices", 1761, as round number 85, with the lyrics "Nose, nose, nose, nose / Shall I ever see thee red" In other words it's an 18th century drinking song that has received a faux-mediaeval makeover in more recent times. |
| Share Thread: |
